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[eso76]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yqedTcQch4U

Interview with Wendl

 

[NullPointer]

you have two choices: pay to fuck , dont pay to dont fuck.

 

[Xanadu]

Who exactly would the cheaper whore be? GT6 the fat one that still hasn't lost all the weight she gained from GT4 and GT3 or the one full of aids called NFS Rivals?

hey beauty is subjective! at least she doesnt rip me off

 

[eso76]

Track Pass in theory. All laser-scanned.

January: Full Nurburgring Nordschleife
February: Monza
March: Pacific Raceways
April: Lime Rock Park

How does that sound?

Long beach.

I like how that reddit guy claimed both long beach and the ring were in the game and playable...

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Long beach.

I like how that reddit guy claimed both long beach and the ring were in the game and playable...

They were probably in the dev build but removed for

Spoiler

DLC

purposes.

 

[FordGTGuy]

hey beauty is subjective! at least she doesnt rip me off

Doesn't rip you off?

Honestly? If you'd remember correctly GT5 only had less than 200 "premium" cars at launch after 7+ years of development.

So basically you'd rather wait 7 hours for the fat whore with the same skills than 2 hours for the skinny one that's just as good and has the potential to get some meat on her if you buy her some Mcdonalds every now and then?

They were probably in the dev build but removed for

Spoiler

DLC

purposes.

Or because they were literally not done at all, need I remind you guys that this would be the first ever laser-scanned version of Nurburgring ever?

 

[eso76]

Or because they were literally not done at all, need I remind you guys that this would be the first ever laser-scanned version of Nurburgring ever?

Still need confirmation on that one

 

[Xanadu]

Doesn't rip you off?

Honestly? If you'd remember correctly GT5 only had less than 200 "premium" cars at launch after 7+ years of development.

yup thats the fat part but i'd take that over 14 bloody tracks

 

[FordGTGuy]

Still need confirmation on that one

Of course but I'd say the fact that it's taking months after launch to finish it is pretty strong evidence, not to mention every other real-life track has been laser-scanned too including in and even more so in Europe where they did Silverstone and Spa.

yup thats the fat part but i'd take that over 14 bloody tracks

I'll take what is mostly 14 laser-scanned environments over PS2 track ports.

There are going to be a lot more layouts than 14.

 

[p3tran]

Long beach.

I like how that reddit guy claimed both long beach and the ring were in the game and playable...

AND yas marina

so reddit guy was legit, and the funnier thing is that he said he could ONLY remember tsukuba and fujimi missing. now think about that...


what i wrote previous page bottom I think is whats happening.
nothing more. not optimization, not trouble with machine, not time problem.
just micosoft milking

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Doesn't rip you off?

Honestly? If you'd remember correctly GT5 only had less than 200 "premium" cars at launch after 7+ years of development.

So basically you'd rather wait 7 hours for the fat whore with the same skills than 2 hours for the skinny one that's just as good and has the potential to get some meat on her if you buy her some Mcdonalds every now and then?



Or because they were literally not done at all, need I remind you guys that this would be the first ever laser-scanned version of Nurburgring ever?

5 years

I'll take what is mostly 14 laser-scanned environments over PS2 track ports.

PS2 track ports >>>>>>> nothing at all. Theres no argument there lol

 

[FordGTGuy]

5 years

PS2 track ports >>>>>>> nothing at all. Theres no argument there lol

No argument? I'm sorry sir but I don't want crappy looking tracks from two generations ago in my next-gen games, if you do than there is a game for that.

GT4 December 28th 2004
GT5 November 24th 2010

I'm sorry 6.

Also there isn't 14 tracks, there are 15 but Bugatti is considered a Le Mans layout and the Le Mans has both the old layout and new one.

 

[p3tran]

Who exactly would the cheaper whore be? GT6 the fat one that still hasn't lost all the weight she gained from GT4 and GT3 or the one full of aids called NFS Rivals?

I was laughing for ten minutes with this..
cheers!

but still, options DO exist. for everybody.
and also, MONEY is a subject for most.

just because some of you are fuckin' old guys that spend your retirement funds on video games,
dont forget that video games have a very big audience that is not financially strong or even able.

 

[Red Chocobo]

No argument? I'm sorry sir but I don't want crappy looking tracks from two generations ago in my next-gen games

At least you could race on them.

If the option was less graphical quality or nothing at all. I'll take less graphical quality. It's a nice bonus (Lets face it, Forza 4 tracks weren't that bad. Could have easily fit in on Xbone)

Why do you keep bringing up GT? This thread has been GT Vs Forza-free for a while. Nice and peaceful. But now all that crap is coming back to aid your damage control.

 

[FordGTGuy]

At least you can race on them.

If the option was less graphical quality or nothing at all. I'll take less graphical quality. It's a nice bonus.

Why do you keep bringing up GT? This thread has been GT Vs Forza-free for a while. Nice and peaceful. But now all that crap is coming back to aid your damage control.

Damage control? So telling it like it is is now considered damage control?

I'm just saying that I don't want Forza to do what GT has done, I find the argument to be nutty as someone saying they wished COD: Ghosts had the campaigns and maps from all the old CODs ported directly in so it has more content.

It's called graphical consistency and Forza is known to at least try to keep the consistency throughout its games.

“Some of the tracks needed updating,” Greenawalt told Eurogamer. “Some of them needed light updating, and some of them needed heavy updating. Silverstone, for example, was a complete recapture. Several of our tracks were just plain wrong, either because they were poorly captured and technology’s moved on, or the track’s changed like Silverstone.”

“We're grading the tracks on what state they're in, and if they didn't make the grade they were gone. For me it was less about do I want to deliver this or want to deliver that, I wanted to deliver the next-generation quality – and that meant having the shaders, and the imperfections in the concrete. And the easiest way to get those is to laser scan the track, as that captures those imperfections. We had old references on tracks where if the tracks we had were close we were able to go back to the old reference and recreate that imperfection. By definition that means these tracks take more time than ever.”

Greenawalt explained the team is looking to laser scan everything from this point on.

“Our goal’s not to carry old content over – and even with all the cars, we did the same process. There were some inaccuracies, and some cars were old-spec that we’d updated from Forza 2 to 3 to 4. But they didn't have the poly count where we wanted it – and they weren't as easy to up-res, so we just recaptured them. Some of them, the spec was good and we could add polygons where we needed them. So it came down to this rating system – and any track or car that wasn't an A grade got either chucked or recaptured.”

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/07/turn-10-boss-explains-nurburgring-absence-from-forza-5

 

[Red Chocobo]

I find the argument to be nutty as someone saying they wished COD: Ghosts had the campaigns and maps from all the old CODs ported directly in so it has more content.

That would actually be fucking awesome lol. The Ghosts MP maps are abysmal. Far too big for COD-style play.

 

[eso76]

5 years



PS2 track ports >>>>>>> nothing at all. Theres no argument there lol

Well, tbh gt5 is constantly being made fun of for including standard cars and tracks, to the point you'd often think the game would have been better received if it didn't include those ports.

Both gamers and press made it sound like 200 premiums >>> 200 premiums + 800 standard cars.

The point here is most fm4 cars would be perfectly acceptable next gen with updated shaders, same goes for Camino, hockenheim, infineon..

Oh btw , I can't wait for t10 to announce that Indianapolis here means the oval and nothing more, you'll see.

 

[Xanadu]

The point here is most fm4 cars would be perfectly acceptable next gen with updated shaders, same goes for Camino, hockenheim, infineon..
.

yep, considering forza 5 uses forza 4 models in gameplay anyway

 

[FordGTGuy]

Well, tbh gt5 is constantly being made fun of for including standard cars and tracks, to the point you'd often think the game would have been better received if it didn't include those ports.

Both gamers and press made it sound like 200 premiums >>> 200 premiums + 800 standard cars.

The point here is most fm4 cars would be perfectly acceptable next gen with updated shaders, same goes for Camino, hockenheim, infineon..

Oh btw , I can't wait for t10 to announce that Indianapolis here means the oval and nothing more, you'll see.

Look at the difference between Sebring on Forza 5 and Forza 4 again and tell yourself acceptable again.

The 800 standard cars didn't do much of a favor for the game considering they condition they were in at launch.

yep, considering forza 5 uses forza 4 models in gameplay anyway

Uh no it doesn't.

 

[Terbinator]

Yeah same here, I don't know if Forza will have that view. There was a similar one at the end of the launch trailer but it might have been a replay cam.

The one from the launch trailer isn't too different form that.

Spoiler

2 weeks.

 

[LeBoef]

Track Pass in theory. All laser-scanned.

January: Full Nurburgring Nordschleife
February: Monza
March: Pacific Raceways
April: Lime Rock Park

How does that sound?

 

[Makki]

If I hadnt known FordGTGuy from forzacentral I Would absolutely think he was Dan Greenawalt's kid from how relentlessly he defends this game to the point of sounding completely mad.
I bought every iteration of the series but Im skipping this one until I can better justify an xbox one or maybe a forza bundle with more content comes out. I only play with a wheel so having to purchase an expensive one on top of 499 bucks is out of the question.

 

[FordGTGuy]

If I hadnt known FordGTGuy from forzacentral I Would absolutely think he was Dan Greenawalt's kid from how relentlessly he defends this game to the point of sounding completely mad.
I bought every iteration of the series but Im skipping this one until I can better justify an xbox one or maybe a forza bundle with more content comes out. I only play with a wheel so having to purchase an expensive one on top of 499 bucks is out of the question.

From seeing how people spread FUD and hate on the game I would think they were all sponsored by Polyphony.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

The one from the launch trailer isn't too different form that.

Spoiler

2 weeks.

TWO WEEKS

So close.

So much money.

 

[NullPointer]

From seeing how people spread FUD and hate on the game I would think they were all sponsored by Polyphony.

FUD?

MS is doing all that on their own.

People unhappy by whats being offered is not FUD.

Spoiler

OK, maybe p3tran ;P

 

[nib95]

From seeing how people spread FUD and hate on the game I would think they were all sponsored by Polyphony.

What FUD are you referring to exactly?

 

[Jamesways]

From seeing how people spread FUD and hate on the game I would think they were all sponsored by Polyphony.

Come on now, let's not just limit it to PD, how about sponsored by SMS or SimBin? I never had a PS3 to play GT5!

We'll leave out Criterion/EA for now.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Uh no it doesn't.

Has anyone seen enough of them to judge?

We've seen the Enzo has had work done for sure, Xanadu reckons the F40 and F50 look just like the old models, do you know how much either of those has been upgraded?

BADNED said better but not perfect.

 

[Mascot]

How did this thread turn into Forza vs GT like all the others?

It was doing so well.

 

[Xanadu]

Uh no it doesn't.

looks like the same models to me,

 

[p3tran]

yep, considering forza 5 uses forza 4 models in gameplay anyway

looks like the same models to me,

No, it looks like the same car modeled twice, and its been a short while you are trolling here..
so cut it

 

[Xanadu]

No, it looks like the same car modelled twice, and its been a short while you are trolling here..

all the polys seem the same to me, can see the tube is still polygonal

 

[Cipher Soze]

No, it looks like the same car modelled twice, and its been a short while you are trolling here..

Ummm..... I'm not being facetious here, but isn't it the same wire frame model, with next gen shaders ? So you're both right. =P

 

[Xanadu]

Ummm..... I'm not being facetious here, but isn't it the same wire frame model, with next gen shaders ? So you're both right. =P

how is he right? were talking about models not shaders

 

[SatansReverence]

Of course but I'd say the fact that it's taking months after launch to finish it is pretty strong evidence, not to mention every other real-life track has been laser-scanned too including in and even more so in Europe where they did Silverstone and Spa.



I'll take what is mostly 14 laser-scanned environments over PS2 track ports.

There are going to be a lot more layouts than 14.

Laguna Seca was NOT scanned. It's the same model as previous games with a touched up environment. Nothing more. Would not be surprised at all if Sebring and Le Sarthe turned out to be the exact same.

 

[eso76]

Look at the difference between Sebring on Forza 5 and Forza 4 again and tell yourself acceptable again.

The 800 standard cars didn't do much of a favor for the game considering they condition they were in at launch.



Uh no it doesn't.

Mostly lighting and textures.
Recurring assets were replaced with new ones (trees, tire walls) new road textures and shaders, some real grass. Parked trucks and cars copy pasted like there's no tomorrow and voilà: here's a reasonably priced, perfectly fine looking next gen track.

I always thought we'd lose fujimi and amalfi (short. Gave up hope seeing the full positano ever again) as those would require some major rebuilding, retexturing, remodeling.
And maybe tsukuba, suzuka, mugello were not accurate enough for t10's new standards.
But Hockenheim, infineon, I can't imagine those taking longer than a couple months to upgrade.

And lol at even thinking tracks would have alternate time of day.


And as for in game models, uh yes, it does.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

No argument? I'm sorry sir but I don't want crappy looking tracks from two generations ago in my next-gen games, if you do than there is a game for that.

GT4 December 28th 2004
GT5 November 24th 2010

I'm sorry 6.

Also there isn't 14 tracks, there are 15 but Bugatti is considered a Le Mans layout and the Le Mans has both the old layout and new one.

Lets put it like this:

FM4 cars + FM5 cars >>>>>> FM5 cars

Well, tbh gt5 is constantly being made fun of for including standard cars and tracks, to the point you'd often think the game would have been better received if it didn't include those ports.

Both gamers and press made it sound like 200 premiums >>> 200 premiums + 800 standard cars.

The point here is most fm4 cars would be perfectly acceptable next gen with updated shaders, same goes for Camino, hockenheim, infineon..

Oh btw , I can't wait for t10 to announce that Indianapolis here means the oval and nothing more, you'll see.

Yes my point.

 

[nib95]

The two models above look the same to me. Just that F5 has considerably better shaders and textures.

 

[Cipher Soze]

how is he right? were talking about models not shaders

Sigh........ because different people have different connotations to the word 'model' . Does it mean wire frame, or wire frame and shaders?

But don't mind me. It's rather entertaining watching you lot argue.lol

 

[Xanadu]

Has anyone seen enough of them to judge?

We've seen the Enzo has had work done for sure, Xanadu reckons the F40 and F50 look just like the old models, do you know how much either of those has been upgraded?

BADNED said better but not perfect.

i'm guessing the f40 will have more accurate textures like smaller ferrari badges and maybe corrected wing mirrors..wont change the deformation of it though

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Helios, come clear this up please.

Surely by now we can have a little Q&A session without stepping on any toes.

i'm guessing the f40 will have more accurate textures like smaller ferrari badges and maybe corrected wing mirrors..wont change the deformation of it though

I'll just squint or sit futher back when it's on screen. Worked ok in F4.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Helios, come clear this up please.

Surely by now we can have a little Q&A session without stepping on any toes.

He has been lurking. I've seen him.

I imagine they will clear up tracks etc, soon.

 

[eso76]

The two models above look the same to me. Just that F5 has considerably better shaders and textures.

And we've seen in that spa video how that gtr's back gets very low poly in game, exactly the same as fm4's gtr. Same 50k poly model, apparently.
Hopefully, that's just for 16 cars races.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

He has been lurking. I've seen him.

I imagine they will clear up tracks etc, soon.

That's disappointing, I know it's difficult but we're all in the same boat.

 

[SatansReverence]

And maybe tsukuba, suzuka, mugello were not accurate enough for t10's new standards.
But Hockenheim, infineon, I can't imagine those taking longer than a couple months to upgrade.

Mugello, Tsukuba and Nurburgring GP would have been far closer to their real world counterparts than that massively out of date Laguna Seca yet they get dropped and we still get an inaccurate Seca.

It doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[p3tran]

i'm guessing the f40 will have more accurate textures like smaller ferrari badges and maybe corrected wing mirrors..wont change the deformation of it though

You are STILL trolling here. I like you , but I'm about to get mad at you.
a) you are reaching
b) last week you where going through the same SHIT when for 3 pages you cried about FORZA 2 S2K

Crearly, its not the forza 2 s2k in forza 5, yet we have to endure this shit from you for every single car you 've read on the interent that is not a perfect copy of reality, EVER!!


usually, I dont give a shit, but right now you are fucking up a conversation that is important to some of us.
you know, those that are thinking of buying the game/console...

 

[Xanadu]

You are STILL trolling here. I like you , but I'm about to get mad at you.
a) you are reaching
b) last week you where going through the same SHIT when for 3 pages you cried about FORZA 2 S2K

Crearly, its not the forza 2 s2k in forza 5, yet we have to endure this shit from you for every single car you 've read on the interent that is not a perfect copy of reality, EVER!!


usually, I dont give a shit, but right now you are fucking up a conversation that is important to some of us.
you know, those that are thinking of buying the game/console...

lol i think you remember it wrong, i didnt even speak about the s2000 i just said after peoples complaints it backs up the fact they still have inaccurate models even after t10 said they went back and fixed the cars that werent A quality. if you dont like my posts just ignore them? you dont have to reply to me you know

and what i read on the internet? i see with my own eyes since forza 1 that the f40 was an abomination, and i was very young then

 

[Jamesways]

Xanadu, come on. Didn't FGTGuy say it costs millions to make one car?

Take the models however they are and be happy, they've spend billions on creating these for us (hence the DLC cost, which we should consider ourselves lucky to buy at such a low cost).

Har har.

Tell you what though, same general assets or not, the switches and small details in the race cockpits don't look so video-gamey any more. That Aston pic, damn!

 

[amar212]

It's called graphical consistency and Forza is known to at least try to keep the consistency throughout its games.

It is called PR.

And am I constraining myself to reply on your nonsenses here for pages and pages now, but now it is not even funny. I do not have a slightest idea how old are you and what is your background, but I can tell you that your replies are sometimes beyond insulting for the common sense of the intelligent people.

Many of us came to NeoGaf because we found something very unique here, especially in the field of driving games. It is called objectivity and constructive criticism. We have been here for years now, some of us (like myself for instance) needed some time to understand the behaviors and way how things are dealt here, but today I find NeoGaf as the most constructive and objective place to discuss driving games. Interesting, isn't it.

All of us have our preferences, I am probably most known for my love towards Gran Turismo, but to be honest, my favorite driving game of all times is F355 Challenge - and I am driving all games on all platforms for decades now. Some guys here are PC drivers for decades, some are Forza lovers, some are GT fans - but somehow we all come together. Damn, even I and Shinn found some silenced mutual understanding after years, despite all differences we had (and I hope he will be back soon). Not even to speak about Iknos, Solal and other great guys who were - just like I was years ago - sometimes too defensive about something.

But this, what you are doing, this is taking everything to a whole new level. I am watching you here for months, since our own great "RUFgate" and you have been very entertaining, I give you that - especially with your rants over NeoGaf on the other forums while you were banned. But your dancing in the waters of blindness have surpassed even those I originally attributed to my good friend Iknos in the legendary GT vs. Forza thread.

What you are doing here the whole day today is something I originally elaborated in the first FM5 thread where I said how behavior of the Forza fanbase is really getting worrisome because it that does nothing else but vocally points out the various perceived shortcomings of Gran Turismo compared to Forza when faced with criticism of fields where Forza series has been stagnant. You are the perfect example. What you do here all day is trying to do damage control of something every Forza fan should be absolutely mad about with Gran Turismo 5. Please, man.

Should I point you (again) on the very words of the Dan Greenawalt prior to very Forza 4 release on X360 regarding possibility to have day/night and rain in FM4 on X360 hardware in 2011? You know, the man that was speaking about "buton passing", "definitive definitive definitive" and such nonsense?

Here, read, from the very Forzamotorsport.net interview:

What can you tell us about night racing and weather effects in Forza 4?

Forza Motorsport includes alternate times of day for a small number of environments, but those alternates do not include dark night or weather effects. For Forza 4, the majority of our graphical investment went into our new image-based lighting (IBL) model, as well as new material shaders, which give our cars and tracks such a realistic, detailed look. With IBL, supporting the general look of night is not particularly hard. However, we take frame rate pretty seriously—we believe that having a solid 60 frames per second (FPS) experience with no tearing is very important for a simulation racing game. Delivering night is about more than just getting the general look right. As we found on the original Forza Motorsport, having multiple headlight projections with multiple cast shadows is computationally heavy—even using clever tricks like we did on the less powerful original Xbox platform. This makes delivering a strong night racing experience very difficult at 60 FPS without significant compromise.

Regarding weather conditions, we do simulate different track temperatures. However, we did not get tire data for wet conditions from our tire partners at Pirelli. We do have SAE data about wet conditions, but it’s nowhere near as comprehensive as our Pirelli data. In order to simulate wet correctly, we’d like to get custom real-world test data to input into our system. Of course, physics isn’t the only difficult aspect of delivering wet conditions. Creating believable weather effects also depends upon gobs of particles and lots of shiny, reflective surfaces. There are several tricks for doing this, but it would still have made delivering the new graphical fidelity of FM4 at a solid 60 FPS nearly impossible in our development timeframe.

If we cut down on the number of cars on track, used original Xbox-generation car models, dropped to 30 FPS, or (and this would be the most effective solution) built specific tracks from the ground-up to have less detail and thus extra performance headroom, then night racing and/or weather conditions may have been possible. Some of those trade-offs, we just were not willing to do. Others would require time that we used to develop other features in the game—specifically, the new graphical look of the game in general. Night and weather are features we will continue to evaluate as the franchise continues. We’re waiting for the right time to deliver these features to our fans.

From the Eurogamer interview:

Every version we explore night and weather. We whittle down thousands of ideas, and we have these autonomous teams. We hire specialists. We build the game like an onion. At its core is a drop-dead amazing simulation engine. But we always assume we're wrong, and then find the best way to make it better. It's that commitment that makes me confident we have the strongest simulation, because we build partnerships other companies just can't, and we have a commitment to getting it right at our core.

We then build assists and fun gameplay and things on top of it without ever sacrificing that. Well, part of that is a solid 60 frames per second. And I mean solid. When you start doing multiple projected shadows off of the front of the car... we have 16 players, so 16 cars times two, so 32 projected shadows. That is a very graphically intense thing.

Now, that's totally possible on the Xbox 360, but it means the specialists we have in graphics would need to work on that problem, and it would be a hard problem. The hard problem we chose to take on with our graphics this version was Image Based Lighting, and working with Hollywood. Every version, we look at this long list of features we would do, and they are divided into these different autonomous groups that have the specialists that could actually do it. We just can't take a network developer and say, hey, why don't you do a new particle system. It's not that they're smart guys, but we hired them because they are so good at delivering network code.

Graphically, doing huge particle effects, we would have to have that group that was developing IBL, and that took a long time for us to get it right. We had to implement a whole new way of thinking through the partnership with Hollywood. We'd have to have them working on that from the ground up. So that's the type of thing where we could do it. We could do it on this hardware. But it didn't prioritise higher than IBL, because the IBL and the way the game looks now is stunning, and it's universal. It helps everybody, no matter what type of player you are, having a beautiful looking game that runs at 60 frames per second is awesome.

The things I've read on forums, people saying, well, I wish they didn't do this feature - first, that shows a lack of respect for the people who are going to love that feature, which is fine. I don't expect gamers to respect people the way I do. But, the assumption in that statement is, we have 350 people, why don't you just move them all on to this other thing I want?

It's like, I can't move artists onto it. That's not going to help. I can't move networking devs. I can't move my physics developers. I can't move my AI developers. To hire the best in the industry takes years. Years. To hire the type of guys we get, you have to take people from Hollywood and other game companies. It's the only way you get senior talent. So you can't just decide, we want to do more, let's just staff up.

What do you have to say on all that? Years after those interviews? After dozens million dollars spent? After tens of thousands of man hours invested? What is the 2013 result we should go and spend 700 euros - without new wheel - just to be able to play?

What do you say about what they did on X360 wheel support? About famous - probably most famous - saying that "night driving" and "pitstops" are rather minor details? Also, I really have to highlight again the super-ego-trip of passing the baton, just take a look at those words used:

“We watched the Sony press conference and we were like, OK so we just brought what we believe firmly is the best racing game ever made, and our competition didn’t show up. So now you can see why I’m fairly bullish. I hate to sound so cocky but the truth is the stars have aligned. I don’t know how else to say it.”

So in many ways he’s handing the baton to me. He probably doesn’t see it that way, but I do, because I believe that I’m now taking what he ignited in me as a passion, and taking it to a much, much, much broader level. I’m not saying it’s necessarily larger yet, but definitely broader, younger, older, men, women. So I’m really excited.”

Because, you see, I am Forza fan. I have been playing Forza avidly since Forza 2. I have bought 2 damn X360 to play Forza, I invested hundreds (not FM5 "hundreds", but more then few HUNDREDS EURO - not dollars) euro - in the Forza Motorsport series and I am proud owner of FM2/FM3/FM4 LCE's, FM3 GOTY, Forza Horizon and have shovel down hundreds of euro to MS throat for Gold so I can play Forza with my friends and other great drivers I've met.

And for years I am listening to that same guy speaking nonsense with his smug attitude - excuse me Helios if you are reading this, I am speaking only as a fan here - where everything is nothing but large bag of PR talk. Why are you buying that? Why are you trying to downplay the fact they first said all tracks will be laser scanned, and later they've admitted they will not be. Oh, yeah, some will be laser scanned, but some will be "surfaced scanned", including fictional tracks? What kind of nonsense is that? Also, yeah, we remodeled all cars from the ground up. No, you did not. Why are you saying things that are not accurate? And now all this in the past few days, I can't even get myself to comment on this because it is crazy.

Here, read my original reply to Paladin - sorry Paladin to use this as example - regarding my opinion why Forza series needs fans that should wake up.

Yeah, I am probably not going to buy Forza 5. I will not be missed apparently. And trust me that I am deeply honest when I say am deeply disappointed and sad when I see what has Forza series become since the greatness and potential that were FM2 and FM3 to today. Big congratulations to Playground Games (despite the fact how Gavin Raeburn - TOCA and CMR undertaker - is leading the project) for their job on Horizon - that was a great new game - but what we - long-time loyal fans of Forza - are witnessing today with the mainline series is really shameful.

You should understand my position a bit better now, and I also hope a similar position of other people here that are being vocal regarding this situation. You are really sounding like someone who is doing damage control from unknown motifs. And if you ask "why", then please read again everything I said above. All regarding Turn10 have always been PR and nothing but PR. I know there are great people that work there, very competent, very knowledgeable and with AAAA knowledge of their job - my personal congratulations to them and to their astounding work for this franchise.

But this guy... man. He has no single dime of respect towards all of us that have been avid fans of the series he is directing and producing for more than a decade now. And that is the main problem. He treats us like we are not intelligent people, but only an obstacle in his PR crusade where inaccuracy said thousand times becomes a truth. He obviously does not think we are people who love and share passion for cars and that want to have good relationship with franchise they love. Constructive relationship. Permanent two-way-benefitial relationship. From everything I read from him in years, all he want is that we do not exist. And I finally decided to grant his wish - because after all, it is nice to be courteous.

 

[Xanadu]

Xanadu, come on. Didn't FGTGuy say it costs millions to make one car?

Take the models however they are and be happy, they've spend billions on creating these for us (hence the DLC cost, which we should consider ourselves lucky to buy at such a low cost).

Har har.

Tell you what though, same general assets or not, the switches and small details in the race cockpits don't look so video-gamey any more. That Aston pic, damn!

fordgtguy says a lot of things and yes it looks excellent and thats my point, they could have ported forza 4 cars and with the new lighting they would have looked fine..sure less than autovista but i really think that feature was a waste of time..but i know super duper graphics sell games

edit: another great great post by amar