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[jose4gg]

They announce a demo for the people with preorders and there I preordering the game. Excited for this game, but no need to spend 70 dollars now, when I now I can pay for it when it is released. Preorders for me where a thing when I was buying physical and I wanted the game at my door as soon as possible. Digital it does not makes sense.

 

[cireza]

We finally get a big hairy sweaty gigachad as a FF protagonist. Rejoice!

I love Berserk, but I am not expecting Guts for main character, nor the realistic violence of Berserk, in a FF game.

 

[Perfo]

I love Berserk, but I am not expecting Guts for main character, nor the realistic violence of Berserk, in a FF game.

It’ll never be like Berserk of course but influencers confirmed there’s a level of gore and sex never seen in the franchise and it’s pretty violent both visually and psychologically…

 

[Madflavor]

I love Berserk, but I am not expecting Guts for main character, nor the realistic violence of Berserk, in a FF game.

Neither am I, but oh god can you imagine.

As an aside I know Yoshi-P is a big fan of Berserk and Matsuno’s work with the Ivalice games, and has been influenced by them. The fact that his FF protagonist looks like he’s ready to fuck shit up isn’t too surprising.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

People are way overestimating how many people value turn base combat. Look at Octopath traveler 2. It took how many month to crack the 1 million mark and it is on ps4, ps5, switch and pc. Turn base have a a market but no where as much as people think

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Their last marketing push is this weekend with the FFXVI Live Event, and the release of the Demo. Several big streamers will be streaming the demo including Moist, Ludwig, Asmongold, and Max. Streamers are a big deal as they generate lots of views. For example:


2.2 million views

Supposedly the demo's progress will be carried over into the full game, and it'll contain the intro of the story. If the intro of the story is as good as the previews have been alluded to, and ends on a cliffhanger, I feel like a lot more hype will be generated after that.

These demo's keep you from getting the early trophies and then when you get the game, the trophies don't retro activate.

 

[Minsc]

People are way overestimating how many people value turn base combat. Look at Octopath traveler 2. It took how many month to crack the 1 million mark and it is on ps4, ps5, switch and pc. Turn base have a a market but no where as much as people think

How were the sales for DQ11 / DQ11S? That did a little better than a million right?

 

[Guilty_AI]

People are way overestimating how many people value turn base combat. Look at Octopath traveler 2. It took how many month to crack the 1 million mark and it is on ps4, ps5, switch and pc. Turn base have a a market but no where as much as people think

Persona 5 says hi

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Yeah, turn based doesn't even have to be ATB for me , though I really like ATB- I really liked FF X and it's simple but elegant battle system, delaying enemy attacks, trying to plan yours sometimes a couple turns out. I think if any game should try turn based again, it should be Final Fantasy but they make it clear over and over they want to get very far from that. I get trying to be innovative, but couldn't we have some attempted innovation in turn based fighting?

VII Remake, for all it's dreadful plot and narrative decisions, had a really decent compromise combat as far as I'm concerned. Is it as traditional in terms of turn based as I'd like? No, but I liked it a lot more than XV. I like that the ATB was still a factor, though removed from "standard attacks", I enjoyed being able to swap around to all the characters and while the real time made it a little difficult at first, once I had a good grasp I was constantly switching to take advantage of what each character offered me and it was a pretty rewarding battle system, but the game was too easy overall. FF has always been easy, so I don't hold it against it for that.

 

[ProtoByte]

Getting away from turn based combat is not the problem. I think the sooner they rid themselves of the pretense the better.

The problem is that the gameplay just doesn't look that exciting from a holistic perspective.

 

[Danjin44]

The problem is that the gameplay just doesn't look that exciting from a holistic perspective.

For you, I’m loving look of the combat in fact it’s one of the reason why I’m hype for this game.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Getting away from turn based combat is not the problem. I think the sooner they rid themselves of the pretense the better.

The problem is that the gameplay just doesn't look that exciting from a holistic perspective.

It literally looks like DMCV, which is one of the greatest combat systems in any video game, ever made.

It has an easy entry point and an insanely high skill ceiling. Unless you are the kind of person who mindlessly button mashes and refuses to play on anything above "easy mode", there is no reason not to be excited about this combat system.

 

[Raven117]

I couldn’t care less about the combat. Action, turnbase, whatever. If that story and vibe of the world are cool, then I’m thrilled and will get all I want out of an FF.

 

[Lethal01]

Not a fair comparison, of course the hype was bigger. Fucking Versus XIII has been in development hell for a decade, has been in the known for so long!

The hype for XVI is the hype you get for a game that quickly releases and the media tour started near the end of its development. It's more like Zelda TOTK where people thought was going to be a bomb or an uninteresting game till when reviews started dropping 10s all over and the hype quickly built up. I wish for a similar situation here versus years of vapourware for a mediocre title like 15.

The reveal trailer for Versus 13 had more hype than it feels like this game ever got.

 

[Lethal01]

but the game was too easy overall. FF has always been easy, so I don't hold it against it for that.

For me this was solved by just not upgrading weapons outside of materia and special attacks.

 

[Lethal01]

They’re some of the best designed characters this IP has had in a long time.

Probably the most boring protagonist we've ever had, I'd much rather we go back to the zipper Era than having this guy who looks like nothing.

 

[ProtoByte]

For you, I’m loving look of the combat in fact it’s one of the reason why I’m hype for this game.

For me, and a lot of others given that this pre-order stuff is true.

It literally looks like DMCV, which is one of the greatest combat systems in any video game, ever made.

I said something to this effect in my thread about the game, but DMC5 masters character action gameplay, but it's a very narrow design structure. It's all about button combos. Anything beyond that? Zip.

It has an easy entry point and an insanely high skill ceiling. Unless you are the kind of person who mindlessly button mashes and refuses to play on anything above "easy mode", there is no reason not to be excited about this combat system.

How about spongy enemies that don't look exciting to fight so much as they're useful for flashy animation reels?

 

[Danjin44]

Probably the most boring protagonist we've ever had, I'd much rather we go back to the zipper Era than having this guy who looks like nothing.

In every JRPG people whine about how in every JPPG they play as teenager now we actually get adult character people still whine. This is why I can’t take opinions here seriously. You guys like to complain for sake of complaining.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

Can't wait for old school Final Fantasy fans to review bomb this game to oblivion. I've never been a fan of the series myself but this game looks fantastic. And pretty much everything traditional FF fans are bitching about is exactly why I'm hyped for XVI. It's not an over the top teen melodrama anime story like most FF games. That shit is so cringe to me

 

[Madflavor]

For me, and a lot of others given that this pre-order stuff is true.

That's not why preorders are low.

• Preorder culture is not as strong as it was in 2016
• Marketing for FFXVI hasn't been strong
• The past 30 days have been very crowded with huge AAA releases from beloved IPs
• People's faith are shaken after FFXV

 

[IntentionalPun]

I doubt pre-orders are less of a big deal these days; if anything I'd expect with game sizes the way they are that pre-ordering in order to pre-load is huge.

 

[Dr. Claus]

For me, and a lot of others given that this pre-order stuff is true.


I said something to this effect in my thread about the game, but DMC5 masters character action gameplay, but it's a very narrow design structure. It's all about button combos. Anything beyond that? Zip.


How about spongy enemies that don't look exciting to fight so much as they're useful for flashy animation reels?

DMC games don't have "spongy enemies". Fights are not just "flashy animation reels". You would know this if you ever actually played them beyond easy mode.

 

[palpabl_purpura]

I think there's enough cause for concern, with ffxiv and ffxv having not so great starts and ffvii remark on pc not being in great shape.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

Persona 5 says hi

What was the sale number on that

 

[xellos2099alpha]

How were the sales for DQ11 / DQ11S? That did a little better than a million right?

How long did it take

 

[Sleepwalker]

For you, I’m loving look of the combat in fact it’s one of the reason why I’m hype for this game.

Yeah this is going to be my first mainline FF and im hyped about it!

 

[cash_longfellow]

In every JRPG people whine about how in every JPPG they play as teenager now we actually get adult character people still whine. This is why I can’t take opinions here seriously. You guys like to complain for sake of complaining.

Yep…people especially love to hate on Final Fantasy…it’s a very vocal minority, just like every Final Fantasy release after X. It’s like extreme opposite fanbase. Final Fantasy fans are quiet and reserved, whereas the haters come out bullhorns blaring…

And of course, the game will sell like crazy.

It’s kind of like online reviews for shit. People are more likely to leave a negative review for something than a positive review.

 

[Guilty_AI]

What was the sale number on that

Last one was 7.2 million copies. For comparison, FFXV sold around 10 million as of now.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Well good luck to them. Sounds like a nice game but not my genre any more. One character no swapping, devil may cry mechanics? I am sorry but I didn't sign up for Bayonetta.

Final Fantasy was meant to be the best fantasy game Square could make. I guess the MMO is the closest thing to that now. A pity i don't like MMOs either.

The worst thing is that even Dungeon Crawlers are turning into Roguelikes. It just seems nothing I enjoyed the old games for has survived the modern day.

We still have dragon quest

 

[Minsc]

How long did it take

It topped 1 million probably before release. It was over 2 million at 2 days in with just one region. That fast enough?

 

[ProtoByte]

That's not why preorders are low.

• Preorder culture is not as strong as it was in 2016
• Marketing for FFXVI hasn't been strong
• The past 30 days have been very crowded with huge AAA releases from beloved IPs
• People's faith are shaken after FFXV

Regurgitating Grubb's rationale isn't too convincing.

I'm not really seeing any hard evidence that preorder culture is weaker than it was before. I'm willing to believe it, but I'd probably have to see non-public data to be convinced. Every other franchise smashing their day 1/week 1 records says otherwise.

Marketing has been consistent and strong in prime time PlayStation events for a solid year. Engagement with the marketing is not strong. That's the difference.

The point about a crowded schedule makes sense to an extent, but it's very limited unless you believe there's a large crossover between Zelda, Diablo, Street Fighter and FF.

Final Fantasy XV is the fastest selling mainline FF game so far, and outside of communities that have been melting down over FF for years, its a pretty uncontroversially liked game. Nothing amazing, but nothing bad to the point that people are suddenly shaken on FF. FF7 Remake, 4 years after FF15, didn't have this problem, and I doubt Rebirth will either.

This is the type of game that sells on critical reception and word of mouth. Not by wowing people with pre release footage. There's an X factor here that's clearly missing.

Comparing it to things related to Nomura especially. That guy's concepts, characters and aesthetics tantalize audiences. If he had another original FF and executed as well as they seem to be with FF16, it'd be the best selling game in the franchise by year 2 max.

 

[Minsc]

I still think the style of this game is a hard sell, but we'll see. I wish it had a bit more character to it, instead of going for a FF-level realism. I prefer the more cartoony FFIX Unreal 5 fanmade look, reminds me more of World of Final Fantasy. There's just so much more color and less clutter than this style. But we'll see, once it's out and I can play it.

 

[Lethal01]

In every JRPG people whine about how in every JPPG they play as teenager now we actually get adult character people still whine. This is why I can’t take opinions here seriously. You guys like to complain for sake of complaining.

I never complained about what you mentioned, always hated the complaints since I liked it. The internet is not a hive mind you fucking moron.

 

[Madflavor]

Regurgitating Grubb's rationale isn't too convincing.

I'm not really seeing any hard evidence that preorder culture is weaker than it was before. I'm willing to believe it, but I'd probably have to see non-public data to be convinced. Every other franchise smashing their day 1/week 1 records says otherwise.

Marketing has been consistent and strong in prime time PlayStation events for a solid year. Engagement with the marketing is not strong. That's the difference.

The point about a crowded schedule makes sense to an extent, but it's very limited unless you believe there's a large crossover between Zelda, Diablo, Street Fighter and FF.

Final Fantasy XV is the fastest selling mainline FF game so far, and outside of communities that have been melting down over FF for years, its a pretty uncontroversially liked game. Nothing amazing, but nothing bad to the point that people are suddenly shaken on FF. FF7 Remake, 4 years after FF15, didn't have this problem, and I doubt Rebirth will either.

This is the type of game that sells on critical reception and word of mouth. Not by wowing people with pre release footage. There's an X factor here that's clearly missing.

Comparing it to things related to Nomura especially. That guy's concepts, characters and aesthetics tantalize audiences. If he had another original FF and executed as well as they seem to be with FF16, it'd be the best selling game in the franchise by year 2 max.

Grubb's rationale makes perfect sense, and plenty of people thought of these points before Grubb released that podcast.

• Buying digital is a lot more common these days than back in 2016. There's less incentive to preorder a game when you can easily download it in the comfort of your own home.
• Marketing for FFXVI is definitely weaker than previous titles. They simply haven't been pushing as hard with this title. FFXV was everywhere with it's marketing. It had CG trailers, a movie, it was printed on food/drink, commercials, etc. It was hard not to know FFXV was coming out.
• The crowded schedule of releases is definitely having an effect. Diablo and Zelda in particular had huge IPs that are each a massive time sink.
• I know within the core fanbase FFXV was divisive, and not saying that's massively affecting FFXVI potential presales, but there are fans who are wary of newer titles and that does have some extent of an impact.
• The game does need that 90+ on MC to really grab people's attention. The sponsored streams on June 11th/12th will also have a good impact on sales, providing the demo is good.
• Can't agree with that last bit on Nomura. He's not particularly good at project management and his games fine but not THAT good. His concepts are some of the most criticized aspects of his games, especially his approach to storytelling. The Kingdom Hearts series is memed for having a nonsensical story. People complained about FFVII:R's ending going "full Nomura". I get the guy has fans, but I don't see him as a universally liked artist.

 

[Minsc]

Edit: mixed up the FF threads, nm.

 

[MagiusNecros]

We still have dragon quest

Yeah Dragon Quest is like the only Square RPG franchise I get excited for.

 

[MasterDerico]

I said "user Reviews".
For me, that's random, or semi-profecional youtubers. I'll take "Dreamcast guy's" and "Angry Joe's" review over any major site's like IGN...

I'll play, i will judge. Simple as that!

 

[ProtoByte]

Grubb's rationale makes perfect sense, and plenty of people thought of these points before Grubb released that podcast.

• Buying digital is a lot more common these days than back in 2016. There's less incentive to preorder a game when you can easily download it in the comfort of your own home.

For single player games, not so much. Digital growth has practically stalled, but they really haven't gained much ground from that time as ot pertains to physical. This is going to be a highly demanded disc too, because the full game will be on it unlike other recent examples like Hogwarts and Jedi Survivor.

• Marketing for FFXVI is definitely weaker than previous titles. They simply haven't been pushing as hard with this title. FFXV was everywhere with it's marketing. It had CG trailers, a movie, it was printed on food/drink, commercials, etc. It was hard not to know FFXV was coming out.

I don't remember FF15 being in food so much as food and Coleman grills being in FF15.

In any case FF15 had 10 years of advertising behind it, and I don't think we got as many trailers for that as we've had for XVI. That's what really sells the game. The rest is marketing fluff. And you'll see plenty of commercials for this leading up to launch.

• The crowded schedule of releases is definitely having an effect. Diablo and Zelda in particular had huge IPs that are each a massive time sink.

Again, show me the evidence that there's a crossover of audiences there.

• I know within the core fanbase FFXV was divisive, and not saying that's massively affecting FFXVI potential presales, but there are fans who are wary of newer titles and that does have some extent of an impact.

Those fans have been wary of newer titles ever since XIII minimum. If consumers could shake off apprehension from that game and it's 2 sequels off, which they did going by XV's sales, it would be an endearing factor in comparison.

• The game does need that 90+ on MC to really grab people's attention. The sponsored streams on June 11th/12th will also have a good impact on sales, providing the demo is good.

I agree. That's been my whole point. Looking at the game isn't going to excite people as much.

• Can't agree with that last bit on Nomura. He's not particularly good at project management and his games fine but not THAT good. His concepts are some of the most criticized aspects of his games, especially his approach to storytelling. The Kingdom Hearts series is memed for having a nonsensical story. People complained about FFVII:R's ending going "full Nomura". I get the guy has fans, but I don't see him as a universally liked artist.

Whether his concepts are criticized, people care about them enough to make comment, and more importantly to buy.

I already acknowledged that his projects, other than FF7R, haven't been executed all that well. If they were... yeesh.

Note: Nomura apparently wanted to keep more faithful to FF7.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Note: Nomura apparently wanted to keep more faithful to FF7.

What are we basing this on? I don't believe it for a second based on other works he is involved in, it literally stinks of his style.

If we go to this interview:

Final Fantasy VII Remake Interview with Nomura and Kitase

Final Fantasy VII Remake producer Kitase Yoshinori and director Nomura Tetsuya discuss the development of the game in this interview.

www.frontlinejp.net

This article states that Kitase says:
"Kitase, who was director of the original FFVII, is asked how much input he had on the remake. He says that the overall direction and concept, story and worldbuilding was left to Nomura, while game design and drama scene direction was left to co-directors Hamaguchi and Toriyama."

So the overall direction, concept, story, and world building were handled by Nomura, yet he wanted it to remain "more faithful"? I don't buy it, but I'm open to more data. Someone with a position over major aspects and concepts certainly either had some workings with or approved these insane ideas.

 

[ProtoByte]

What are we basing this on? I don't believe it for a second based on other works he is involved in, it literally stinks of his style.

If we go to this interview:

Final Fantasy VII Remake Interview with Nomura and Kitase

Final Fantasy VII Remake producer Kitase Yoshinori and director Nomura Tetsuya discuss the development of the game in this interview.

www.frontlinejp.net

This article states that Kitase says:
"Kitase, who was director of the original FFVII, is asked how much input he had on the remake. He says that the overall direction and concept, story and worldbuilding was left to Nomura, while game design and drama scene direction was left to co-directors Hamaguchi and Toriyama."

So the overall direction, concept, story, and world building were handled by Nomura, yet he wanted it to remain "more faithful"? I don't buy it, but I'm open to more data. Someone with a position over major aspects and concepts certainly either had some workings with or approved these insane ideas.

I'll have to rephrase the statement: Nomura at least prevented even more deviation from the original. Lol

Final Fantasy 7 Remake’s Producer Wanted More Drastic Changes To Original Story

gamingbolt.com

To be clear, I'm pretty okay with what they're doing. If it turns out to be really good, I'll be even more on board with the decision.

 

[Nautilus]

What are we basing this on? I don't believe it for a second based on other works he is involved in, it literally stinks of his style.

If we go to this interview:

Final Fantasy VII Remake Interview with Nomura and Kitase

Final Fantasy VII Remake producer Kitase Yoshinori and director Nomura Tetsuya discuss the development of the game in this interview.

www.frontlinejp.net

This article states that Kitase says:
"Kitase, who was director of the original FFVII, is asked how much input he had on the remake. He says that the overall direction and concept, story and worldbuilding was left to Nomura, while game design and drama scene direction was left to co-directors Hamaguchi and Toriyama."

So the overall direction, concept, story, and world building were handled by Nomura, yet he wanted it to remain "more faithful"? I don't buy it, but I'm open to more data. Someone with a position over major aspects and concepts certainly either had some workings with or approved these insane ideas.

Final Fantasy 7 Remake’s Producer Wanted More Drastic Changes To Original Story

gamingbolt.com

Just to show that everything people know about Nomura is based on prejudices over nothing.

 

[Kumomeme]

What are we basing this on? I don't believe it for a second based on other works he is involved in, it literally stinks of his style.

If we go to this interview:

Final Fantasy VII Remake Interview with Nomura and Kitase

Final Fantasy VII Remake producer Kitase Yoshinori and director Nomura Tetsuya discuss the development of the game in this interview.

www.frontlinejp.net

This article states that Kitase says:
"Kitase, who was director of the original FFVII, is asked how much input he had on the remake. He says that the overall direction and concept, story and worldbuilding was left to Nomura, while game design and drama scene direction was left to co-directors Hamaguchi and Toriyama."

So the overall direction, concept, story, and world building were handled by Nomura, yet he wanted it to remain "more faithful"? I don't buy it, but I'm open to more data. Someone with a position over major aspects and concepts certainly either had some workings with or approved these insane ideas.

Nojima has lot of influence on writing. lot of people forgot his existence i guess. perhaps he hold most power since he is the main writer. for example that whispers destiny ghost stuff is actually his idea. some of stuff also due to Toriyama for example like Honey Bee section. seems to me, each of people that has their own significant influence there. not just Nomura. even Hamauguchi also same. multiple Sephiroth appearance is also due to him as revealed in interview.

 

[ProtoByte]

DMC games don't have "spongy enemies". Fights are not just "flashy animation reels". You would know this if you ever actually played them beyond easy mode.

No, I was talking about this game.
Enemies either get totally bodied by Clive with no pushback, whilst still taking too long and not reacting as they should to attacks, or literally take 2 minutes of special effects super-attack spamming to chip their health down to zero.

 

[deriks]

You just know some outlets will give it a 7/10 because of "diversity" shit.

Won't affect sales. I bet the game will do good. Maybe not the best, but a profit

 

[Denjo92]

FFXV numbers were insanly high because people anticipated FFversus13 and the reveal trailer made the game look much better than the release version. Basically false advertising.​

Plus, they release 16 on only one console with a low user base, of course preorders are low. They are delusional.​

16 looks great though.

 

[Dr. Claus]

No, I was talking about this game.
Enemies either get totally bodied by Clive with no pushback, whilst still taking too long and not reacting as they should to attacks, or literally take 2 minutes of special effects super-attack spamming to chip their health down to zero.

Ah, gotcha. I am a bit worried about that as well - but I figured it was probably due to them messing with settings to showcase the animations, less that they actually are that spongy. We will see when the game/demo releases.

 

[Abriael_GN]

Considering the overwhelmingly positive response to the demo, looking forward to seeing the haters fully silenced when the game releases. They've definitely been a lot quieter since yesterday.

 

[Perfo]

They’re probably buying it too lol

Considering the overwhelmingly positive response to the demo, looking forward to seeing the haters fully silenced when the game releases. They've definitely been a lot quieter since yesterday.

 

[Gambit2483]

Considering the overwhelmingly positive response to the demo, looking forward to seeing the haters fully silenced when the game releases. They've definitely been a lot quieter since yesterday.

I've decided not to play the demo but I'm glad to hear others are enjoying it. If reviews pan out well I'll definitely be picking this up

 

[delirium trigger]

Final Fantasy was back after the 7 remake and then they sucked all the wind out of the sails making people wait four years for part 2. Did people really want 16?