Support NeoGAF

[Gigglepoo]

some of these are just so ridiculous. didn't jimmy butler go at the end of the first round? like ok they made some mistakes but you can't just go and point at these projects that panned out and say "look! they could have had a team with x y and z if they were smarter!".

when they made these picks they weren't building a team for Lebron, they were getting guys who they thought had the potential to work well together. obviously most of their decisions didn't pan out though.

How am I going to point out who they could have signed if I don't name available players? I'm just answering the question.

That hypothetical conundrum is why I'm trying to talk more in the abstract (don't built a team with one-way players!) instead of doing the "What if?" game. But no matter how you're building a team, two-way players are smarter than one-side liabilities.

Cavs couldn't go Olaladipo, they had Kyrie and Waiters at the time. I might've taken a chance in Otto Porter.

Waiters was already a mistake by the time that draft choice came. It's why Bill Simmons was pushing for the Cavs to draft Olaladipo, especially because we knew Kyrie was a defensive dud so having a good defensive guard was necessary for any real success.

 

[Cheebo]

Kyrie -- I would have drafted Kyrie. You can hide one bad defensive player.
Thompson -- Valančiūnas, Klay, Markieff Morris, Kawhi, Jimmy Butler were all available.
Love -- Batum was available or they could have kept Wiggins
Anthony Bennett -- Steven Adams, Giannis, Oladipo, and others were available

As far as trades or signings

David West was available
Tobias Harris was available (Cavs are super old right now. That's not helping)
Westley Matthews was available (could have sign and trade with Love)
Crowder was available

The list goes on and on and on....

There are tons of players who they could have signed in the last five or six years, but they scouted poorly. It's not like two-way players are incredibly rare. The Cavs don't need someone like Paul George who is great on both sides of the court, they just need players who aren't total liabilities on one end. It's alright having one or two minuses but only JR, LeBron, and maybe Delly are effective on both ends. That's not how you build a championship team.

Why Markieff? Marcus has been consistently the better Morris brother since the two split.

 

[Stabby McSter]

It's crazy how close Golden State came to trading Klay Thompson for Kevin Love during the K.Love sweepstakes a few years ago. Man did they dodge a bullet xD

It looked super juicy at the time. I was for it until Jerry West and Stever Kerr was like NAH.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Why Markieff? Marcus has been consistently the better Morris brother since the two split.

Copy and pasted the wrong dude. I'd rather have either Morris, though. Or both to unlock their full potential!

 

[Cheebo]

It looked super juicy at the time. I was for it until Jerry West and Stever Kerr was like NAH.

What I have I read is the reason it was vetoed was Jerry West threatened to quit. They would have done it if West didn't threaten to quit. I don't believe Kerr was a deciding vote in it like west West if I remember right.

 

[Bread]

How am I going to point out who they could have signed if I don't name available players? I'm just answering the question.

That hypothetical conundrum is why I'm trying to talk more in the abstract (don't built a team with one-way players!) instead of doing the "What if?" game. But no matter how you're building a team, two-way players are smarter than one-side liabilities.

Well you could be realistic and mention players that actually had a chance of being drafted within a few picks of where they were positioned. Or we could all fantasize about the super team with Kyrie, Klay, Lebron, and Kawhi. Either way.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Well you could be realistic and mention players that actually had a chance of being drafted within a few picks of where they were positioned. Or we could all fantasize about the super team with Kyrie, Klay, Lebron, and Kawhi. Either way.

I mentioned three other players who were drafted between Thompson and Kawhi...

 

[beat]

It looked super juicy at the time. I was for it until Jerry West and Stever Kerr was like NAH.

I was leaning towards being in favor too. Jerry West is smarter than me.

 

[Cheebo]

I was leaning towards being in favor too. Jerry West is smarter than me.

I remember reading the Warriors subreddit at the time. Most seemed fairly okay with it. Love being really the only decent guy on the Wolves really made him seem better than he is.

Never doubt the logo. The guy who traded for Kobe and Shaq in '96 is the same who made sure to keep Steph and Klay duo intact when everyone else wanted to get rid of Klay nearly 20 years later.

 

[Gully State]

I for once was right to want to keep Klay...though I definitely wasn't exactly confident in that decision either way. I just thought the asking price was too steep as they wanted Barnes or Draymond along with Klay. If I were GM, you might've been able to convince me for Klay - Love straight up...but Minnesota was asking for a combination of Barnes, Dray and/or 1st round pick + Klay. That IMO was way too much. At the time I thought Barnes had a higher realistic ceiling than Klay.

 

[Cheebo]

I for once was right to want to keep Klay...though I definitely wasn't exactly confident in that decision either way.

I remember people calling out West for being out of an out of touch old man for passing up Love and letting the Cavs grab him. Dude showed up everyone

 

[Fjordson]

I was leaning towards being in favor too. Jerry West is smarter than me.

Same breh same. I should have listened to The Logo.

That decision and David Lee getting injured before last year changed the league lmao

 

[Siegcram]

Kyrie -- I would have drafted Kyrie. You can hide one bad defensive player.
Thompson -- Valančiūnas, Klay, Markieff Morris, Kawhi, Jimmy Butler were all available.
Love -- Batum was available or they could have kept Wiggins
Anthony Bennett -- Steven Adams, Giannis, Oladipo, and others were available

As far as trades or signings

David West was available
Tobias Harris was available (Cavs are super old right now. That's not helping)
Westley Matthews was available (could have sign and trade with Love)
Crowder was available

The list goes on and on and on....

There are tons of players who they could have signed in the last five or six years, but they scouted poorly. It's not like two-way players are incredibly rare. The Cavs don't need someone like Paul George who is great on both sides of the court, they just need players who aren't total liabilities on one end. It's alright having one or two minuses but only JR, LeBron, and maybe Delly are effective on both ends. That's not how you build a championship team.

The bolded were just as big of question marks on at least one side of the floor as the ones the cavs ended up with or just plain didn't make sense at the time.

As for the signings, let's not pretend the offense/defense package would look any better with David West or Jae Crowder out there for Love. Also not a great fan of Harris.

And once you go on to speculate which sign and trades would be possible ... that's a huge list and without insider knowledge useless speculation 99% of the time.

The Cavs have glaring holes in their team for sure, but I highly doubt overpaying a big man is the lynchpin to them losing these finals.

 

[Cheebo]

In all honesty has anyone post-MJ era had more of an impact on the league than Jerry West? I mean he is responsible for the Kobe/Shaq Lakers dynasty and the Steph/Klay Warriors dynasty. It's insane.

 

[PadWarrior]

 

[Face it Tiger..]

I've said that Klay looks like Justin Timberlake X PBS Logo X Easter Island Idol.

 

[Gully State]

In all honesty has anyone post-MJ era had more of an impact on the league than Jerry West? I mean he is responsible for the Kobe/Shaq Lakers dynasty and the Steph/Klay Warriors dynasty. It's insane.

Don't forget he also was responsible for the Grizzlies' success as well. They may not have been title contenders but he built them into a perennial playoff team

 

[PadWarrior]

I've said that Klay looks like Justin Timberlake X PBS Logo X Easter Island Idol.

Lol

 

[Stabby McSter]

its why his shot is so wet

 

[Gigglepoo]

And once you go on to speculate which sign and trades would be possible ... that's a huge list and without insider knowledge useless speculation 99% of the time.

I agree 100%. That's why I didn't want to get in a list war of who was available at the time; we both know there are tons of variables included in every signing. My overall point is that they constructed a team of one-way players and it's hurting them now that they have to play a good team. That's their biggest problem and there were solutions out there that they didn't take advantage of.

 

[Fjordson]

Just saw something kinda funny on twitter that I forgot about. Speights, Livingston, Varejao and Luke Walton were all playing for Cleveland like three years ago.

 

[MetalFearSolid]

Just saw something kinda funny on twitter that I forgot about. Speights, Livingston, Varejao and Luke Walton were all playing for Cleveland like three years ago.

And back then they were making history as well.

 

[beat]

I for once was right to want to keep Klay...though I definitely wasn't exactly confident in that decision either way. I just thought the asking price was too steep as they wanted Barnes or Draymond along with Klay. If I were GM, you might've been able to convince me for Klay - Love straight up...but Minnesota was asking for a combination of Barnes, Dray and/or 1st round pick + Klay. That IMO was way too much. At the time I thought Barnes had a higher realistic ceiling than Klay.

Wow, that would have been an incredible robbery for the T-Wolves.

 

[specdot]

It's hilarious how this team closes out games with Richard Jefferson in the lineup. That clown should be playing in China.

Damn son. Can't call this one savage, it's freakin LETHAL.
As a Knicks fan, JR Smith looking terribad makes me giggle.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I don't deal in the what if drafts of people picked lower that worked out. I deal in the Cavs didnt have to trade Wiggins for a player that was gonna be a UFA in the next season. It was as stupid as the Knicks gutting their roster rather than wait 6 months for Melo.

 

[Gorillaz]

yea


that whole wiggins trade for KLove looking a little funny in the light right now

 

[RedAssedApe]

yea


that whole wiggins trade for KLove looking a little funny in the light right now

hindsight though. like the klay for love trade rumors

 

[Frozenprince]

hindsight though. like the klay for love trade rumors

I mean even at the time it was dumb. GM Bron and his ego needing to win right away instead of taking a couple years to build a team.

 

[Gorillaz]

hindsight though. like the klay for love trade rumors

true but I remember people back then were arguing against it

I personally thought, yea sure why not what can go wrong KLove can't play D but he cares so much about stats he would do well. Wiggins is a great shooter still green to the league so of course bron wouldn't be interested


it was all good 2 years ago

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Klay Thompson plays better defense on bigs on switches than Kevin.

 

[VoxPop]

Poor LeBron. Was the GOAT active player and had nonstop Jordan comparisons till Curry/Warriors just came in and completely ruined him. I'm sure he doesn't care with hundreds of millions in the bank but it must still sting. No amount of new coaches and superstar players can save him from his demise. Hoping he goes back to the villain shtick in Miami or joining forces with KD or Smello.

 

[Gorillaz]

I actually want Villain Bron back

 

[RedAssedApe]

nwo lebron was better.

now if he loses his third finals trip with the cavs i'll just feel bad for him and that city.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

hindsight though. like the klay for love trade rumors

Yeah hindsight...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166523259&postcount=3206

<rolls eyes>

 

[Stabby McSter]

I actually want Villain Bron back

It went from hero Lebron to villain Lebron to supervillain Lebron

he's just a conniving billionaire now

 

[RedAssedApe]

Yeah hindsight...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166523259&postcount=3206

<rolls eyes>

well i wasn't talking about anyone in particular. i actually didn't even see your post. so don't roll your eyes at me! (heh)

let's not pretend that there weren't plenty of people who supported trades to win now though.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Poor LeBron. Was the GOAT active player and had nonstop Jordan comparisons till Curry/Warriors just came in and completely ruined him. I'm sure he doesn't care with hundreds of millions in the bank but it must still sting. No amount of new coaches and superstar players can save him from his demise. Hoping he goes back to the villain shtick in Miami or joining forces with KD or Smello.

I don't feel sorry for him...AT ALL.

LeBron had 5 chances to cement his legacy before Steph and co. really got going. Tim Duncan is 5-1 in the Finals and didn't need to have CHOSEN1 tatted on his back to do it.

well i wasn't talking about anyone in particular. i actually didn't even see your post. so don't roll your eyes at me! (heh)

let's not pretend that there weren't plenty of people who supported trades to win now though.

It was a playful eye roll.

It is a no brainer that you don't trade Love for Wiggins. Remember this post in a few years if Wiggins and Townes gel and basically become Shaq/Kobe 2.0.

 

[pinsomniac]

Screencapped it myself, enjoy:

What is this from?

 

[RedAssedApe]

I don't feel sorry for him...AT ALL.

LeBron had 5 chances to cement his legacy before Steph and co. really got going. Tim Duncan is 5-1 in the Finals and didn't need to have CHOSEN1 tatted on his back to do it.



It was a playful eye roll.

It is a no brainer that you don't trade Love for Wiggins. Remember this post in a few years if Wiggins and Townes gel and basically become Shaq/Kobe 2.0.

what if cavs somehow win the title

 

[Gigglepoo]

It is a no brainer that you don't trade Love for Wiggins. Remember this post in a few years if Wiggins and Townes gel and basically become Shaq/Kobe 2.0.

Exactly! I had quite a few posts arguing how stupid a trade it was. In short: Defense is important! Obvious in hindsight, even more obvious now.

I still think Batum was the man to trade for if the Cavs absolutely, positively didn't want a promising rookie.

what if cavs somehow win the title

It would be a bad trade that miraculously didn't submarine the team.

 

[the_batman]

what if cavs somehow win the title

what if cows fall from the sky?

 

[Gully State]

What is this from?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G_9RPyF6nE

 

[Boombloxer]

<high five>

That mentality is why I will never become a dirty Seahawks fan.

#gorams
#golakers
#godoyers
#gokangs
#gogalaxy

Pretty much. I can root for a team from Cali to win that isn't the Kings, but can never be a GS fan.

Should be a short series, some of these Cavs fans posts in here are straight delusional when it's the same story as before--the strongest JV team is no match for the boys from Varsity.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Pretty much. I can root for a team from Cali to win that isn't the Kings, but can never be a GS fan.

Some people are fans and others follow a sport casually then latch on to whoever is most fun to watch. That's about it. It's not possible to be a fan of multiple teams in the same sport or switch your allegiance year to year. There's too much emotional energy tied up into being a fan of a specific team. But if you only kind of care? Just a little? That's what bandwagons are all about.

 

[TTG]

The media should take it easy on Steph and Klay. Did you see what they had to do last series to win? They were playing against the monstars out there. Starting 3 seven footers(2 of which they could play against GSW's small ball line up and not lose a step), that Roberson guy, and the Terminator Westbrook. Klay's got PTSD, he had to go all predator with a minigun in game 6. You bet Curry looked exhausted, it was all iso 3 point shots in game 7. Give them a game or 2 to convalesce and recuperate.

Also, their 2017 roster looks stacked:

Curry
Thompson
Lebron
Draymond
Dwight

That season opener against OKC is gonna be sweet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G_9RPyF6nE

Is that B Shaw? Missed that first time through.

 

[pgtl_10]

I feel people are overreacting to game 1.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

what if cavs somehow win the title

He would be 3 and 4, putting 1 step closer to reaching .500.

Achievement unlocked?

Exactly! I had quite a few posts arguing how stupid a trade it was. In short: Defense is important! Obvious in hindsight, even more obvious now.

I still think Batum was the man to trade for if the Cavs absolutely, positively didn't want a promising rookie.

Yeah...Wiggins wasn't just some scrub or a questionable prospect...he was far and away #1 and guy you could build around for years to come. Plus, Wiggins can get his own shot whenever he wants to. Instead you trade him away for a guy that has little ability to impact a game outside someone setting him up.

It would be a bad trade that miraculously didn't submarine the team.

Also this. The point is, if they waited till Love was a FA (and nothing else changes) you have:

Irving
Wiggins
James
Love
Thompson

with the rest of the bench you have intact.

I think I like my changes with a Big 4 vs. a Big 3...

 

[Gigglepoo]

Yeah...Wiggins wasn't just some scrub or a questionable prospect...he was far and away #1 and guy you could build around for years to come. Plus, Wiggins can get his own shot whenever he wants to. Instead you trade him away for a guy that has little ability to impact a game outside someone setting him up.

I wonder if drafting Anthony Bennett scared the front office (or LeBron) so much that they didn't have confidence in their own ability to scout anymore. I mean, Anthony Bennett is historically bad. They would have been better off drafting Delly #1 than that bum.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I wonder if drafting Anthony Bennett scared the front office (or LeBron) so much that they didn't have confidence in their own ability to scout anymore. I mean, Anthony Bennett is historically bad. They would have been better off drafting Delly #1 than that bum.

Maybe. You don't bet the farm and your future on a stretch 4 that doesn't play defense.

 

[Mix Master]

SAS said last night was a Dallas episode, "Who shot J.R." Dude is funny as hell