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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread

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ToxicAdam

Member
and the fact that he charged people money to attend just further shows how politically tone-deaf he is.


pacefalm


You know it's quite common for presidential candidates to attend events where the hosts charge hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars to attend, right? It's usually just held in some dank ballroom or conference center.

Could be. Terrible optics, though, as we've seen.
.

Terrible optics for the twitter kiddies who tee-hee online at stills. Not bad optics for a 30 second shot on network or cable news which will have a shot of the audience along with Ford Fields high ceilings as Romney's backdrop.
 
Isn't that standard practice for this sort of event?

This was supposed to be a major speech on the economy. Apparently the optics of the event are drowning out the substance (or lack thereof).

http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/02/24/2734814/its-all-economy-all-the-time-for.html
DETROIT -- Days before a pivotal primary, Mitt Romney is highlighting his economic plan in what was billed as a major campaign speech delivered at a cavernous and largely empty football stadium.

Romney's speech repeated new tax proposals he released earlier this week, including lowering marginal individual tax rates by 20 percent. He offered few new policy ideas, though he did offer new details on how he would raise the retirement age to help keep Social Security solvent.

Well, maybe this photo distraction is actually a good thing for Romney.
 

Hop

That girl in the bunny hat
You know it's quite common for presidential candidates to attend events where the hosts charge hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars to attend, right? It's usually just held in some dank ballroom or conference center.

Which would look full with the same attendance. Like Cyan said, it's just optics- in politics the truth is what it looks like, not what it actually is.
 
that's quite a number of old white people




and the fact that he charged people money to attend just further shows how politically tone-deaf he is.
Nice stereotype. You can't even see their faces. For your second point, I'm sure it costs a lot to hold a rally, even a small one, in a big stadium. He can't just lose money.

But I'm just replying in a stupid argument.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Stupidity regurgitated has that effect on me.

I guess I don't get why one of the lead (if not THE lead) contender(s) for the office of the Presidency would have trouble attracting more people than he did at that event.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
So whose decision was it to hold it at Ford field? Seems either the DEC or the Romney campaign made a dumb mistake overestimating the turnout.
 
Honesty and accuracy deserve to be defended.

Blindly following the crowd strikes me as stupid. "Bu bu but they're worse!" doesn't cut it as an admirable defense.

Perhaps your right on that. Being a killjoy to defend Romney from people snarking at him is still a bit odd.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
Maybe that type of mentality should be kept over on ThinkProgress or Twitter.


If people snarked on Obama in a similar fashion (like his golfing), their shit would be jumped on with a quickness here.


--- /// ---

It's much easier to hit Romney on shit like this:

After declaring Detroit should be “the motor city of the world,” Romney said. “I drive a Mustang and a Chevy pick-up truck. He then said his wife Ann drives a couple of Cadillacs.

Before ending his remarks, Romney added, “I used to have a Dodge truck so I used to have all three covered.”

He can't help but pander at every chance he can, often very awkwardly.
 
Honesty and accuracy deserve to be defended.

Blindly following the crowd strikes me as stupid. "Bu bu but they're worse!" doesn't cut it as an admirable defense.

I agree. Still you have to blame whomever was responsible for creating the photo opportunity / letting that photo being taken-distributed, as just the look of it lends itself to ridicule. Not quite a Dukakis in a tank, but similar sort of lack of self-awareness on part of the campaign.
 

Agnostic

but believes in Chael
ArABNl.jpg


Wow- Horrible PR
 
Maybe that type of mentality should be kept over on ThinkProgress or Twitter.


If people snarked on Obama in a similar fashion (like his golfing), their shit would be jumped on with a quickness here.
Correcting people when they're wrong? Perfectly fine. But you reacted as if they insulted a personal loved one. It's Romney.
 
pacefalm


You know it's quite common for presidential candidates to attend events where the hosts charge hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars to attend, right? It's usually just held in some dank ballroom or conference center.

yup, I am aware. But I stand corrected.

And definitely poor choice in venue. And it should probably have been in a small ballroom instead. He can't afford to be making poor decisions like this right now.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
I agree. Still you have to blame whomever was responsible for creating the photo opportunity / letting that photo being taken-distributed, as just the look of it lends itself to ridicule. Not quite a Dukakis in a tank, but similar sort of lack of self-awareness on part of the campaign.

Well, I think they were playing to a tv crowd, because they had cameras set up at specific angles. I doubt they cared about the the other photos being taken and being distributed. Although, that will probably have more of a negative effect to a certain demographic.

But you reacted as if they insulted a personal loved one. It's Romney.


It's fun to stir the pot.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Well, I think they were playing to a tv crowd, because they had cameras set up at specific angles. I doubt they cared about the the other photos being taken and being distributed. Although, that will probably have more of a negative effect to a certain demographic.

Which is even weirder of a decision. Why charge for something that you're playing for the TV crowd?
 

markatisu

Member
That is a really weird venue for that group to book given the amount of people there. Even if security was an issue a stadium is hardly the place vs a really nice ballroom or even a conference center.

Regardless is just more bad PR for Romney as most people are going to mock the photos and add a negative narrative to it, whether is truthful or even his responsibility (since he speaks where he is asked to speak) does not really matter in the 24/7 news world

This just seems like something Newt would love to play up, that nobody wanted to see him
 
Found this to be interesting on the Wonkblog:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/medicaids-big-spenders-in-one-chart/2012/02/24/gIQAVC53XR_blog.html

If we cut 1 million elderly from the Medicaid rolls, we reduce Medicaid spending by about 5%. If we cut 1 million adults, however, we reduce Medicaid spending by only 1%. We need to cut 5 times as many adults. If we want to cut Medicaid spending by 10% (which is far less than some propose), we’d need to drop more than 10 million adults from Medicaid. That’s almost three-quarters of all of them. If we want to cut overall Medicaid spending by 20%, then we’d need to drop all non-elderly adults, including all pregnant women, as well as about 10 million kids, or more than a third of them.

Pretty interesting when you breakdown who and what you are spending on.
 
Well, I think they were playing to a tv crowd, because they had cameras set up at specific angles. I doubt they cared about the the other photos being taken and being distributed. Although, that will probably have more of a negative effect to a certain demographic.




It's fun to stir the pot.

To be fair, his camp billed this as a major campaign speech. Traditionally those have been given to decent to good crowds. His camp had to know this would cause jeers from liberal and mainstream media, given the fact he already has to deal with a lack of enthusiasm factor
 

GhaleonEB

Member
You know it's quite common for presidential candidates to attend events where the hosts charge hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars to attend, right? It's usually just held in some dank ballroom or conference center..

Yes, but those events are not usually hyped by the campaign, and then open to the press. Someone at some point should have connected the dots and seen the inevitable.

I've been buried at work so I just now saw this, but my take is it's an amusing mistake on optics, on the level of McCain's lime green jello salad background for his speech during his run. Just an obvious stupid mistake, amusing for a day, but shouldn't be blown too far out of proportion.

For a campaign that prides itself on maintaining professional optics and process control, it's pretty funny.
 

Chichikov

Member
WSJ article blaming monetary policy (among other things) for rising oil prices.

This seems to be making the rounds. It seems like a weak argument to me, but you might see Romney start using something along these lines.
This article doesn't make a lick of sense.
Rising cost of gas is because dollar devaluation?
What?
Have they never looked at inflation adjusted chart of oil prices at the WSJ?
I mean, I know they really really really wanted QE to create inflation, but it fucking didn't.

As for the other arguments in that piece, I get the sense even the writer isn't fully buying them.
I mean, why does it matter which president stared expanding oil drilling in the context of oil prices?
We're talking about supply and demand here, no? why does it matter if it was done "under protest" of the Obama white-house?
Oh wait, what am I saying, this is the WSJ op-ed page, the context isn't really the price of oil.
 
WSJ article blaming monetary policy (among other things) for rising oil prices.

This seems to be making the rounds. It seems like a weak argument to me, but you might see Romney start using something along these lines.

Jamie Galbraith:

The inflation threat that we face doesn't come from deficits or high employment — it comes from the cost and price of energy. But managing this is not within the competence of the Federal Reserve.

I have been trying to call attention to this issue for years (it's in my 2008 book, The Predator State, and in articles written recently with Jing Chen, most recently in the Cambridge Journal of Economics, which contains the following paragraph:

Our central argument is that stimulus fell short — and would have fallen short even if the amounts had been greater — because increased demand under existing high-fixed cost structures drove, or would have driven, the price of resources too high, too quickly. The constraint on growth was not inflation generated by easy money, but the combination of the rising real marginal cost especially of energy, combined with monopoly control of and speculative instability in energy prices, which together act as a choke-chain on the return to full employment.​

But the endless debate over deficits, debt and quantitative easing tends to obscure this issue — and in public discourse one cannot easily answer questions that are not being asked.

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/whos-afraid-little-inflation

(So, basically, what speculawyer is always saying.)
 

markatisu

Member
To be fair, his camp billed this as a major campaign speech. Traditionally those have been given to decent to good crowds. His camp had to know this would cause jeers from liberal and mainstream media, given the fact he already has to deal with a lack of enthusiasm factor

Him and his camp seem oblivious to that though, I assume because they know they will win the nomination and then try to reboot themselves as both moderate and likable in the general

Romney is an awkward individual, will really be interesting to see how he sizes up against Obama who is much more charismatic. It feels at this point almost like it will be a redux of Bush/Kerry, Bush/Gore except this time the one who relates is a Democrat.
 
It's difficult to find any facts in their argument through all the dreadful partisan crap that they are spewing.

Cliff notes version:
Rising gas prices: It's all Obama's fault
Rising domestic production: Obama who?
Sorta.

Rising unemployment: President's fault
Declining unemployment: Thank you based private sector

Rising gas prices: President's fault
Declining gas prices: Thank you based offshore-drilling

Disastrous military operation: President's fault
Successful military operation: Thank you based Seal Team 6
 

gcubed

Member
Found this to be interesting on the Wonkblog:



Pretty interesting when you breakdown who and what you are spending on.

has anyone done a study on the cost/benefit of widening enrollment? Like, if you allow younger people to "join" medicare pre-retirement but pay a rate for it (taxed or whatever), does it solve some issues? I remember during the whole obamacare debate there was talk that younger people use insurance less so their premiums offset the elderly who use it more.
 
NPR had a great write up of the recent rise of oil prices.

http://www.npr.org/2012/02/22/147261788/whats-behind-the-recent-hike-in-gas-prices
"The supply of gasoline has been declining," Gheit says. "We have 700,000 barrels of refining capacity [that were shut down] in the last three months. That is almost 5 percent of U.S. gasoline production ... now offline."

Energy analyst Phil Verleger says that's an amazing drop in refining capacity.

"I've been following the industry since 1971," he says, "and never in my life have I seen so many refineries close all at once."
...
And, according to Verleger, a big European refinery that sent gasoline to the U.S. has also closed.
Gheit says there's still another interesting ingredient to consider.

"Because the global market is much more lucrative than the domestic market, for the first time in our history we are not importing gasoline," Gheit says. "Not only are we not importing gasoline, we're actually a net exporter of gasoline."
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Came in here to post this.

The closing of refineries absolutely killed the gasoline supply.

That's a problem that is NOT going to get fixed any time soon.
?
Definitely an interesting take that goes beyond the "production is way up, why are prices going up?" mantra going around
 
It's much easier to hit Romney on shit like this:

After declaring Detroit should be “the motor city of the world,” Romney said. “I drive a Mustang and a Chevy pick-up truck. He then said his wife Ann drives a couple of Cadillacs.

Before ending his remarks, Romney added, “I used to have a Dodge truck so I used to have all three covered.”

He can't help but pander at every chance he can, often very awkwardly.
In his haste for shameless pandering, Mitt Romney once again inadvertently comes off as an out of touch rich guy. His wife drives "a couple of Cadillacs", and he drives a Mustang and Chevy pick up. Okay Mitt...not everyone has 4 garages.

This guy is so hopeless.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
?
Definitely an interesting take that goes beyond the "production is way up, why are prices going up?" mantra going around

We've got a massive glut of oil in the United States. We had so much that we were building new storehouses for it and holding it in ships off the coast. Refinery capacity was the issue--the refineries just started cutting production and some have closed recently.

I say it isn't going to be fixed soon because it costs a TON of money to open a refinery and the oil companies are raking in cash when oil prices are this high. They have NO REASON to open any new refineries because of how much money they're making. Opening a refinery or two may cause speculators to stop driving up the cost of oil which, in turn, hurts the oil companies.

The real problem is currently (and has been for years) the speculators driving up the cost of oil unnecessarily. The fact that Iran cut off oil supply to Britain and France drove up the price of oil majorly. The problem with that? Britain and France imported a tiny percentage of their oil from Iran. It made almost no discernible difference that they couldn't easily make up elsewhere.
 
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