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[User 463088]

That line of reasoning is horrible, for it can be applied to any politician that has supported any position.

"Sure he voted for it, but..."

Cmon son, berniestans do that to hills all the time.

No, there is a difference, in my mind at least, between an ally and an advocate. Bernie is definitely 100% an ally of the LGBT community. No question. His votes prove that. He's not perfect, of course. No one is perfect on every issue.

However, Hillary has often made LGBT issues core to the things she was doing at the time. Her time at State, for example, she focused on LGBT issues at home and around the world. She gave her "Human Rights are Gay Rights, and Gay Rights are Human Rights." She created the Global Equality Fund while at State. I see her as more of an advocate than I do Bernie Sanders.

Because Bernie's position is that all struggle is class struggle, I don't think he truly understands the issues LGBT people face. Economically, we're not a super poor block of people. However, because of "institutional heterocentrism" (I won't even call it homophobia, in an attempt to sound slightly non-judgmental) we lack opportunity. Hillary gets this better than Bernie does, in my opinion.

My point is voting is fine, and voting the correct line is even better. Sure, Bernie marched in a pride parade in 1983. He voted against DOMA as he thought it was a state's issue. I do not see anything from him that leads me to believe he understands the issues facing my community, outside of how bad millionaires and billionaires are, better than Hillary.

 

[brochiller]

Wait, do you guys seriously ALL support Hills human rights record over Bernie? That's one thing Bernie is the clear winner on to me. I am surprised at the Human Rights Campaign to go with someone who was against gay marriage up until about 10 years ago.

 

[Y2Kev]

Benji when u said does the left even support America anymore you were so prescient

How did u know that hrc would support hrc

 

[FiggyCal]

Wait, do you guys seriously ALL support Hills human rights record over Bernie? That's one thing Bernie is the clear winner on to me. I am surprised at the Human Rights Campaign to go with someone who was against gay marriage up until about 10 years ago.

Nah. Just the one guy that said he did.

I don't know why you'd assume that he speaks for everyone here.

 

[HylianTom]

I heard he was at Stonewall. /s

The thing that pisses me off most...sure he's voted just fine on LGBT issues. That doesn't make him an advocate. I've voted right in every Presidential election, but it doesn't make me an expert on the electoral process. Ugh.

To be honest, I find the whole "you arrived to our position too late!" conversation to be damn boring. A significant portion of the population has undergone its own change of heart on this realm of issues. I'm not going to sneer at these people.

 

[benjipwns]

Looking at Bernie's issues pages, I noticed an odd quirk, they all say "As President, Senator Sanders will"...the communist is going to try and hold two positions at once!

 

[User 463088]

Wait, do you guys seriously ALL support Hills human rights record over Bernie? That's one thing Bernie is the clear winner on to me. I am surprised at the Human Rights Campaign to go with someone who was against gay marriage up until about 10 years ago.

I don't think I speak for anyone anywhere, let alone here.

Bernie didn't come out in favor of marriage equality until 2009, and he did so only after his state passed it. Prior to that, he was in favor of civil unions.

In 2006, when the Bush White House proposed an amendment to the Constitution defining marriage as between a man and a woman, Sanders spoke out against the Republican plan, saying it was “designed to divide the American people.”

But when Sanders was asked by a reporter whether Vermont should legalize same-sex marriage, he said no. “Not right now, not after what we went through,” he said.

Marriage equality is but one small part of the problems we face. It was a big one, ya, but it wasn't the only one. Hillary's position and policy on LGBT issues is far more comprehensive than Bernie's.

Here's a factsheet on it, if you want to read it.

 

[Coriolanus]

No, there is a difference, in my mind at least, between an ally and an advocate. Bernie is definitely 100% an ally of the LGBT community. No question. His votes prove that. He's not perfect, of course. No one is perfect on every issue.

However, Hillary has often made LGBT issues core to the things she was doing at the time. Her time at State, for example, she focused on LGBT issues at home and around the world. She gave her "Human Rights are Gay Rights, and Gay Rights are Human Rights." She created the Global Equality Fund while at State. I see her as more of an advocate than I do Bernie Sanders.

Because Bernie's position is that all struggle is class struggle, I don't think he truly understands the issues LGBT people face. Economically, we're not a super poor block of people. However, because of "institutional heterocentrism" (I won't even call it homophobia, in an attempt to sound slightly non-judgmental) we lack opportunity. Hillary gets this better than Bernie does, in my opinion.

My point is voting is fine, and voting the correct line is even better. Sure, Bernie marched in a pride parade in 1983. He voted against DOMA as he thought it was a state's issue. I do not see anything from him that leads me to believe he understands the issues facing my community, outside of how bad millionaires and billionaires are, better than Hillary.

No offense mate, but that whole thing reads like an exercise in backfire effect and confirmation bias.

Which is why i'm in the position that it is best avoided. Either way they're your allies and their position favours you, so do not seed these meaningless doubts about their cred. You do not enjoy it and find it ridiculous when it is done to hills, so one should try not to perpetuate the behaviour.

 

[Iolo]

Rubio's Super PAC is reading PoliGAF

- Cruz has a Canadian tax plan
- CALCULA TED

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/ted-cruz-canadian-tax-plan-217960

 

[A Human Becoming]

I heard he was at Stonewall. /s

The thing that pisses me off most...sure he's voted just fine on LGBT issues. That doesn't make him an advocate. I've voted right in every Presidential election, but it doesn't make me an expert on the electoral process. Ugh.

Voted right? Your ego is really getting up there adam.

To be honest, I find the whole "you arrived to our position too late!" conversation to be damn boring. A significant portion of the population has undergone its own change of heart on this realm of issues. I'm not going to sneer at these people.

There's truth to what you are saying, it's just more courageous of a political leader to come out in support or something that the majority of people do not because it's the right thing to do (not saying Bernie did this).

 

[benjipwns]

Here's a factsheet on it, if you want to read it.

Campaign promise sheet maybe.

 

[User 463088]

To be honest, I find the whole "you arrived to our position too late!" conversation to be damn boring. A significant portion of the population has undergone its own change of heart on this realm of issues. I'm not going to sneer at these people.

I just love how marriage was the only problem the LGBT community has ever faced, apparently. If it were up to me, I may have considered exchanging Obergefell for a definitive ruling on whether "sex discrimination" under Title VII can be applied to actual or perceived sexual orientation and gender identity. I know some courts have ruled that it does, and, if that holds up, I think that's a winning strategy for us.

Don't get me wrong. I love that I can get married now....but I can still be denied a job or kicked out of my apartment in the state of Ohio just because I happen to have a little more fabulousness than a straight guy.

 

[PBY]

Rubio's Super PAC is reading PoliGAF

- Cruz has a Canadian tax plan
- CALCULA TED

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/ted-cruz-canadian-tax-plan-217960

Rubio attacking Cruz, and Jeb attacking Rubio.

Dat iso clearout for Trump.

 

[disastermouse]

It's only 11:00am whee I am. I can't start drinking yet. Plus, I have a meeting with an "editorial board" over my collection of stories that is supposed to be published. (Quotes used because it's two people probably working out of a dumpster somewhere...but in my mind, it's important.)

Ugh, maybe a few drinks....

The condescension looks...bad on you. Go ahead, Hillarysplain it for me.

 

[B-Dubs]

Voted right? Your ego is really getting up there adam.

I think he means he chose the winner.

 

[Coriolanus]

Don't get me wrong. I love that I can get married now....but I can still be denied a job or kicked out of my apartment in the state of Ohio just because I happen to have a little more fabulousness than a straight guy.

Thats mostly due to shit worker protection laws, tbqh. Same reason why even if you do legalize drugs, youll still have asshats firing people for blazing during their free time.

Wait what. Kicked out of your appartment for being gay? The fuck is happening there?

 

[disastermouse]

No, there is a difference, in my mind at least, between an ally and an advocate. Bernie is definitely 100% an ally of the LGBT community. No question. His votes prove that. He's not perfect, of course. No one is perfect on every issue.

However, Hillary has often made LGBT issues core to the things she was doing at the time. Her time at State, for example, she focused on LGBT issues at home and around the world. She gave her "Human Rights are Gay Rights, and Gay Rights are Human Rights." She created the Global Equality Fund while at State. I see her as more of an advocate than I do Bernie Sanders.

Because Bernie's position is that all struggle is class struggle, I don't think he truly understands the issues LGBT people face. Economically, we're not a super poor block of people. However, because of "institutional heterocentrism" (I won't even call it homophobia, in an attempt to sound slightly non-judgmental) we lack opportunity. Hillary gets this better than Bernie does, in my opinion.

My point is voting is fine, and voting the correct line is even better. Sure, Bernie marched in a pride parade in 1983. He voted against DOMA as he thought it was a state's issue. I do not see anything from him that leads me to believe he understands the issues facing my community, outside of how bad millionaires and billionaires are, better than Hillary.

So...you want more gay tokenism for your particular sexual identity. Fuck the poors, right? I mean, economic issues don't really affect your interests or the interests of your sexual identity.

I mean, I consider you an ally for the poor and the working class, but not really an advocate. As long as you have access to the benefits of this fucked up system, it's all good!

At least you voted right your entire life.

 

[User 463088]

No offense mate, but that whole thing reads like an exercise in backfire effect and confirmation bias.

Which is why i'm in the position that it is best avoided. Either way they're your allies and their position favours you, so do not seed these meaningless doubts about their cred. You do not enjoy it and find it ridiculous when it is done to hills, so one should try not to perpetuate the behaviour.

None taken.

Like I said, I draw a distinction between and advocate and an ally. I see Hillary as more of an advocate for my community than Bernie Sanders. It's not a knock against him at all. Bernie is more of an advocate for some issues that are important to me than Hillary is. I'm not hating on him. He's 100% preferable to anyone else out there (other than Hillary. I don't know enough about O'Malley's positions to be making a judgement call one way or another.) I trust her more on this issue than Bernie. My trust is based on what she did as Senator, what she did as Secretary of State, and what she's offering as President. I see her plan as specific and attainable.

Voted right? Your ego is really getting up there adam.

Hey, I've never voted for a loser before! (Except for Hillary in the 2008 primary....otherwise, everyone I've voted for for President has always won.) I'm like Trump. Every candidate I pick wins....except in the primary....hmmm.....maybe that's not good.

 

[benjipwns]

So...you want more gay tokenism for your particular sexual identity. Fuck the poors, right? I mean, economic issues don't really affect your interests or the interests of your sexual identity.

I mean, I consider you an ally for the poor and the working class, but not really an advocate. As long as you have access to the benefits of this fucked up system, it's all good!

At least you voted right your entire life.

Don't like immediately confirm his worst thoughts about Bernie supporters or anything.

Hey, I've never voted for a loser before! (Except for Hillary in the 2008 primary....otherwise, everyone I've voted for for President has always won.) I'm like Trump. Every candidate I pick wins....except in the primary....hmmm.....maybe that's not good.

You only vote for President?

 

[User 463088]

So...you want more gay tokenism for your particular sexual identity. Fuck the poors, right? I mean, economic issues don't really affect your interests or the interests of your sexual identity.

I mean, I consider you an ally for the poor and the working class, but not really an advocate. As long as you have access to the benefits of this fucked up system, it's all good!

At least you voted right your entire life.

Whoa, whoa. Hold on there.

I am not rich. By most definitions, I would be considered freaking poor as all hell. So, no, I don't want to fuck the poor because I am among the poor. Economic issues definitely affect me. So, please don't try and label me as a one issue voter. I'm not. I understand how different "labels' intersect. I would get the gay, disabled and poor ones, at the moment. Two of which are tied extensively to economic inequality.

My point was that the discrimination I face as a gay man (ignoring all other labels) is not the result of economic inequality. If I had a job making $200,000 a year right now and I was straight, a lot of the issues I face wouldn't simply go away. Making the millionaires and billionaires pay more taxes (even though that is the right thing to do) is not going to stop me from losing my job because my employer didn't like that I was gay. It wouldn't stop my landlord from throwing me out of my apartment because I got married to a man.

I am 100% for doing whatever we can to bridge the divide between the have and the have nots. It would benefit me greatly. However, I also understand that not every single problem we face is rooted in the fact that the rich keep getting richer.

And, yes, the voted right thing was that in a GE I've never voted for a presidential candidate who hasn't won. I thought that was obvious. Sorry if it wasn't.

 

[disastermouse]

Don't like immediately confirm his worst thoughts about Bernie supporters or anything.

He's just confirmed my worst fears for Hillary supporters, so I'm just returning the favor!

Maybe he can gaysplain it to this poor Cis, straight, white man. I wasn't born with the fabulous.

(Kinda taking the piss, here. I realized after I posted that it's not obvious.)

 

[Iolo]

hmm

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/19/u...s-for-a-long-slog-against-bernie-sanders.html

Even though the Clinton team has sought to convey that it has built a national operation, the campaign has invested much of its resources in the Feb. 1 caucuses in Iowa, hoping that a victory there could marginalize Mr. Sanders and set Mrs. Clinton on the path to the nomination. As much as 90 percent of the campaign’s resources are now split between Iowa and the Brooklyn headquarters, according to an estimate provided by a person with direct knowledge of the spending. The campaign denied that figure.

[...]

For all its institutional advantages, the Clinton campaign lags behind the Sanders operation in deploying paid staff members: For example, Mr. Sanders has campaign workers installed in all 11 of the states that vote on Super Tuesday. Mrs. Clinton does not, and is relying on union volunteers and members of supportive organizations such as Planned Parenthood to help her.

Asked about the discrepancy between the campaigns and whether Mrs. Clinton’s team planned to put staff in all of the Super Tuesday states, Marlon Marshall, her director of state campaigns and political engagement, declined to comment specifically, and instead repeated this line three times: “We’ve had folks in states for a while.”

 

[benjipwns]

I've never voted for a candidate for any office who has won. Including the one time I knowingly voted for a Republican.

 

[Veritigo_X]

New Republican ARG NH Poll (1/15-1/18):

Trump 27% (+2)
Kasich 20% (+6)
Rubio 10% (-4)
Cruz 9% (-)
Christie 9% (-1)
Bush 8% (-)

Kasichmentum?

Democrats:

Sanders 49% (+2)
Clinton 43% (-1)
O'Malley 3% (-)

 

[FyreWulff]

I've never voted for a candidate for any office who has won. Including the one time I knowingly voted for a Republican.

Stop writing yourself in on the ballot

 

[User 463088]

You only vote for President?

I vote every time the polls are open. Never missed a single vote since I turned 18. Unfortunately, most of the down ballot people I vote for tend to lose, since I've nearly always lived in a marginally red district. Except for Senators. I managed to not screw up Sherrod Brown's reelection against Josh Mandel. Occasionally, I get a council person through.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

New Republican ARG NH Poll (1/15-1/18):

Trump 27% (+2)
Kasich 20% (+6)
Rubio 10% (-4)
Cruz 9% (-)
Christie 9% (-1)
Bush 8% (-)

Kasichmentum?

Democrats:

Clinton 43% (-1)
Sanders 49% (+2)
O'Malley 3% (-)

Holy shit

 

[Makai]

Rubio's Super PAC is reading PoliGAF

- Cruz has a Canadian tax plan
- CALCULA TED

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/ted-cruz-canadian-tax-plan-217960

Marco-Economics

 

[Holmes]

Life's tough for straight, white cis men.

 

[Makai]

New Republican ARG NH Poll (1/15-1/18):

Trump 27% (+2)
Kasich 20% (+6)
Rubio 10% (-4)
Cruz 9% (-)
Christie 9% (-1)
Bush 8% (-)

Kasichmentum?

Democrats:

Clinton 43% (-1)
Sanders 49% (+2)
O'Malley 3% (-)

WTF. Definitely make a thread for that.

 

[B-Dubs]

Holy shit

Yea, that came from nowhere.

 

[benjipwns]

New Republican ARG NH Poll (1/15-1/18):

Trump 27% (+2)
Kasich 20% (+6)
Rubio 10% (-4)
Cruz 9% (-)
Christie 9% (-1)
Bush 8% (-)

Kasichmentum?

Democrats:

Clinton 43% (-1)
Sanders 49% (+2)
O'Malley 3% (-)

Nice flip-flopping of President Sanders and Shrillary to hide the fact that NH is feeling the Bern.

Stop writing yourself in on the ballot

You have to register as a write-in for the votes to count, I'm not stupid!

 

[eBay Huckster]

Nice flip-flopping of President Sanders and Shrillary to hide the fact that NH is feeling the Bern.

Don't you mean President Senator Sanders?

 

[FiggyCal]

Who thinks this is a good look?

 

[Veritigo_X]

Nice flip-flopping of President Sanders and Shrillary to hide the fact that NH is feeling the Bern.

BUSTED

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

WTF. Definitely make a thread for that.

It doesn't really need a thread. This thread is for the active monitoring of interesting developments like that. Maybe a thread if he overtook Trump, if that.

 

[B-Dubs]

Who thinks this is a good look?

The man knows his audience.

 

[User 463088]

Ugh, not Kasich. He's too good at hiding the cray-cray. He seems so normal, unless you know him at all. Then he's just another Koch Brother's wet dream.

 

[Makai]

It doesn't really need a thread. This thread is for the active monitoring of interesting developments like that. Maybe a thread if he overtook Trump, if that.

Naw, this is the biggest development since Carson falling off.

 

[FiggyCal]

Btw: It's started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mq5hrUDoYo

Edit: He's taking questions. I mean.

 

[benjipwns]

Don't you mean President Senator Sanders?

Or will it be Senator President Sanders?

Ugh, not Kasich. He's too good at hiding the cray-cray. He seems so normal, unless you know him at all. Then he's just another Koch Brother's wet dream.

Dude doesn't look good angry.

 

[User 463088]

Or will it be Senator President Sanders?

Speaker Senator President Sanders.

He's gonna be speaker too

Edit:

Actually Mayor Speaker Senator President Sanders. He's gonna run for mayor of Burlington again.

The town, not the coat factory, in case that wasn't clear.

 

[Iolo]

Marco-Economics

Marco-traffickers

 

[Daniel B·]

P.S. Given Bernie's crystal clear explanation, what percentage of viewers do you think will have trouble understanding that, with UHC, they would be paying significantly less for healthcare? 1%?

Yes, I think 1% is a fair estimate of people who will actually understand his plan, yes. Considering the reviews for his plan, even among liberals hasn't been the best. His plan is completely unworkable from what he's put out there so far.

Currently, federal revenues for 2015 are expected to be around $3.5 trillion. Bernie's healthcare plan alone is going to cost another $1.3 trillion annually. That is never, ever going to survive a General Election campaign. You cannot hope to think that the American people, Then we have free college, a tax increase on the middle class to pay for sick leave, and every other plan he's put out there...all them require raising taxes. You do not win a GE by promising to raise everyone's taxes. It has never, ever, ever been done.

I'm going to assume that you aren't still pushing Hillary's feeble "but, you promised not to raise Middle Class taxes" line, when Fox News viewers wouldn't have trouble understanding the basic principle, and instead focus on a far more realistic question; how would Bernie ensure that you don't end up paying your private healthcare premiums, at the same time as a new healthcare tax?

I don't have an answer, but I sure as shit know that if we can bail out Wall St., to the tune of trillions of dollars, for a crisis created entirely by the downright illegal behavior of those concerned, the "most powerful nation on Earth", can surely find a way to finance a transition to universal healthcare, which would represent a "yuge" step forward for the American people, without it imposing a financial burden on them.

 

[ivysaur12]

I think if another poll were able to confirm Kasichmentum, then yeah. Maybe. But primary polls can be wonky and one poll does not make a trend.

Still, Kasich doing well in New Hampshire makes sense considering he feels tailor-made for that audience.

Or will it be Senator President Sanders?


Dude doesn't look good angry.

Yeah, he has a really terrible temper, but he's still the most electable Republican standing.

 

[benjipwns]

Speaker Senator President Sanders.

He's gonna be speaker too

Edit:

Actually Mayor Speaker Senator President Sanders. He's gonna run for mayor of Burlington again.

The town, not the coat factory, in case that wasn't clear.

He might nationalize the coat factory. Or...citialize it?

 

[PBY]

New Republican ARG NH Poll (1/15-1/18):

Trump 27% (+2)
Kasich 20% (+6)
Rubio 10% (-4)
Cruz 9% (-)
Christie 9% (-1)
Bush 8% (-)

Kasichmentum?

Democrats:

Sanders 49% (+2)
Clinton 43% (-1)
O'Malley 3% (-)

How the fuck is that happening? Aren't Kasich's likeability #s flat out terrible? Holy shit, this is fucking TERRIBLE for the establishment, unless he actually wins NH.

 

[benjipwns]

lol trump just spending this time to bash the media and talk about his polls

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Speaker Senator President Sanders.

He's gonna be speaker too

Edit:

Actually Mayor Speaker Senator President Sanders. He's gonna run for mayor of Burlington again.

The town, not the coat factory, in case that wasn't clear.

He'd never win the Burlington vote since he refuses to focus on more than just great coats.

 

[Y2Kev]

Christie flopping. Lol.