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PoliGAF 2015-2016 |OT3| If someone named PhoenixDark leaves your party, call the cops
- Thread starter Diablos
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And_Gignac
Member
^
Well, this can all be solved by the Democratic Establishment stopping acting like children on a tantrum. If Sanders wins the nomination (unlikely) the Dems can totally avoid him pulling a McGovern by embrace him and his voters. But theres really no will in the Dems Inc. to change and leave the center.
I dont think he can win the delegate count. College kids will also be super concentrated. He needs to really trounce Clinton in NH levels and I am doubtful of that happening.
Well, this can all be solved by the Democratic Establishment stopping acting like children on a tantrum. If Sanders wins the nomination (unlikely) the Dems can totally avoid him pulling a McGovern by embrace him and his voters. But theres really no will in the Dems Inc. to change and leave the center.
I dont think he can win the delegate count. College kids will also be super concentrated. He needs to really trounce Clinton in NH levels and I am doubtful of that happening.
Do you realize what kind of boon for Sanders it would be for either Hillary or someone close to her to run such an attack. I'm not sure people in the heartland understand how politics work if this is their brilliant idea.
Well, the argument for Bernie being more "electable" than Hillary stemmed from national match up poll numbers. What puzzled me a bit in those discussions was that nobody seemed to narrow the match ups down to the battleground states and consider if Bernie or Hillary would perform better in those states.
The game has rules, and getting more votes in CA or NY isn't really going to help win the race 'more'.
Running with the assumption that the 'heartland' thinks like they do is a problem that Bernie's supporters seem to have though.
The game has rules, and getting more votes in CA or NY isn't really going to help win the race 'more'.
Running with the assumption that the 'heartland' thinks like they do is a problem that Bernie's supporters seem to have though.
neurosisxeno
Member
Sooooo their new plan is to frame it as he's unelectable in the General? That's funny considering he does better in H2H Polls against the leading Republican Candidates than Clinton does, and has basically closed the gap on the backs of Swing Voters and Undecideds.
The biggest issue Sanders has among Democrats is they are mad he's not just rolling over and allowing Hillary to ascend to her rightful spot as President. Why should the establishment get to decide which candidate gets the countries votes? That's not how democracy is supposed to work--some overarching entity telling you to vote for this person because it's in your best interests. The next biggest problem Sanders has, is that Democrats don't think he can beat Hillary. He has good favorable's, people trust and like him, and more people tend to think he represents their concerns than Clinton's. But more of them say they will vote for Clinton. Do you see how absurd that is? The only explanation is this self-feeding cycle where Democrats don't want to vote for Sanders because they don't think he can win because the establishment says Hillary is the best chance.
Trump doesn't play by the rules. He's going to name his daughter VP.
Trump/Trump 2016.
Remember, Donald Trump wants to bang his VP.
The establishment won't decide. The voters will.Sooooo their new plan is to frame it as he's unelectable in the General? That's funny considering he does better in H2H Polls against the leading Republican Candidates than Clinton does, and has basically closed the gap on the backs of Swing Voters and Undecideds.
The biggest issue Sanders has among Democrats is they are mad he's not just rolling over and allowing Hillary to ascend to her rightful spot as President. Why should the establishment get to decide which candidate gets the countries votes? That's not how democracy is supposed to work--some overarching entity telling you to vote for this person because it's in your best interests. The next biggest problem Sanders has, is that Democrats don't think he can beat Hillary. He has good favorable's, people trust and like him, and more people tend to think he represents their concerns than Clinton's. But more of them say they will vote for Clinton. Do you see how absurd that is? The only explanation is this self-feeding cycle where Democrats don't want to vote for Sanders because they don't think he can win because the establishment says Hillary is the best chance.
The establishment won't decide. The voters will.
yup.
And_Gignac
Member
So, nothing? You were asked for this:
Well, actively does not mean legislatively. But meh, this is an unnecessary argumentation. The endorsement is there and Clinton has done way more for LGBT rights since her evolution than Sanders has so, yeah.
Do you realize what kind of boon for Sanders it would be for either Hillary or someone close to her to run such an attack. I'm not sure people in the heartland understand how politics work if this is their brilliant idea.
The flashbacks to 08 are endearing. Will that route work though? 43% of Iowans dems/leaning describe themselves as socialists.
And unless there some internal polling we are unaware of, I think this behavior is totally an overreaction. As of today, theres no really a clear route for Sanders to win the nomination, and the most plausible route considers a lot of ifs.
neurosisxeno
Member
The establishment won't decide. The voters will.
The voters who are now hearing droves of elected Democrats say Sanders is bad for their chances of winning. Hillary supporters are fine mentioning Hillary and Sanders were only 3% different in voting trends when she was in the Senate, but apparently when looking at the GE, Sanders becomes Mecha-Stalin the Unelectable and Hillary is the second coming of Christ.
The voters who are now hearing droves of elected Democrats say Sanders is bad for their chances of winning. Hillary supporters are fine mentioning Hillary and Sanders were only 3% different in voting trends when she was in the Senate, but apparently when looking at the GE, Sanders becomes Mecha-Stalin the Unelectable and Hillary is the second coming of Christ.
If Bernie's merit as a candidate and leader is so obviously self-evident, primary voters will easily see past the commentary of the "droves of elected Democrats" and vote to pick him. In the end, they still decide for themselves. There is no party official who goes into the booth with you to force your hand from one checkbox to the next.
And Bernie uses the s-word as a modifier to describe his political leanings. Hillary does not. That might not be a big deal to you personally, but to a significant portion of the population, it does, no matter how much you wish to deny it.
If Bernie's merit as a candidate and leader is so obviously self-evident, primary voters will easily see past the commentary of the "droves of elected Democrats" and vote to pick him. In the end, they still decide for themselves.
And Bernie uses the s-word as a modifier to describe his political leanings. Hillary does not. That might not be a big deal to you personally, but to a significant portion of the population, it does, no matter how much you wish to deny it.
correct. The article is a what if scenario that will be moot if she wins IA.
correct but this is still a what if scenario. Hillary could win IA and the article is moot.
True. I'm just entertaining myself.
That, and I'm amused by the notion that voters are somehow deprived of their autonomy by scare-inducing, smooth-talking party officials.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Do you honestly believe this?Sooooo their new plan is to frame it as he's unelectable in the General? That's funny considering he does better in H2H Polls against the leading Republican Candidates than Clinton does, and has basically closed the gap on the backs of Swing Voters and Undecideds.
The biggest issue Sanders has among Democrats is they are mad he's not just rolling over and allowing Hillary to ascend to her rightful spot as President. Why should the establishment get to decide which candidate gets the countries votes? That's not how democracy is supposed to work--some overarching entity telling you to vote for this person because it's in your best interests. The next biggest problem Sanders has, is that Democrats don't think he can beat Hillary. He has good favorable's, people trust and like him, and more people tend to think he represents their concerns than Clinton's. But more of them say they will vote for Clinton. Do you see how absurd that is? The only explanation is this self-feeding cycle where Democrats don't want to vote for Sanders because they don't think he can win because the establishment says Hillary is the best chance.
^
Well, this can all be solved by the Democratic Establishment stopping acting like children on a tantrum. If Sanders wins the nomination (unlikely) the Dems can totally avoid him pulling a McGovern by embrace him and his voters. But theres really no will in the Dems Inc. to change and leave the center.
I think this is a misunderstanding of where the Dem establishment actually is. They are not, by any means, the rightmost people who regularly vote Democrat. In fact, as you would expect, they're somewhere in the middle of the Democratic party.
There are a bunch of people who are actually to the right of what we'd consider the Democratic center, but happen to vote Democratic because of immigration, or because of healthcare, or guns, or whatever single issue is important enough to convince them to stay on our side of the median voter. Those are the people at risk if they get convinced that Sanders is a radical.
And_Gignac
Member
If Bernie's merit as a candidate and leader is so obviously self-evident, primary voters will easily see past the commentary of the "droves of elected Democrats" and vote to pick him. In the end, they still decide for themselves. There is no party official who goes into the booth with you to force your hand from one checkbox to the next.
And Bernie uses the s-word as a modifier to describe his political leanings. Hillary does not. That might not be a big deal to you personally, but to a significant portion of the population, it does, no matter how much you wish to deny it.
Well, lets see how this plays out for them. They could alienate almost a half of the democratic caucus goers in Iowa, and lets not pretend this delightful spectacle of the center-left being scared of their original values isnt a reaction to the more plausible reality of Sanders winning Iowa.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Always annoyed to see liberals attacking progressive policies from the right.. Literally doing the job of Conservatives.
Somewhere in hell, Goldwater is surely cackling and clasping his hands.
Are Conservatives who criticize Trump and Cruz for being unelectable "attacking conservative policies from the left"?
Policy preferences are a spectrum and you are to the left of a mainstream Democrat.Always annoyed to see liberals attacking progressive policies from the right.. Literally doing the job of Conservatives.
Somewhere in hell, Goldwater is surely cackling and clasping his hands.
We will indeed see. It'll be fascinating to watch, no matter how it ends.Well, lets see how this plays out for them. They could alienate almost a half of the democratic caucus goers in Iowa, and lets not pretend this delightful spectacle of the center-left being scared of their original values isnt a reaction to the more plausible reality of Sanders winning Iowa.
Too many folks conflate attacking electoral strategy with attacking actual policy. It's disingenuous. These are two separate, distinct concepts.Are Conservatives who criticize Trump and Cruz for being unelectable "attacking conservative policies from the left"?
Fair point.Yes and no. The Democratic establishment has more say about their nominee than the Republicans. Of the total delegates available in the Democratic primary, 20% are unpledged, party officials; it's less than 9% in the Republican primary. The 2008 Democratic nominee was decided by the superdelegates, since neither Obama or Hillary had enough pledged delegates to take the nomination.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Yes and no. The Democratic establishment has more say about their nominee than the Republicans. Of the total delegates available in the Democratic primary, 20% are unpledged, party officials; it's less than 9% in the Republican primary. The 2008 Democratic nominee was decided by the superdelegates, since neither Obama or Hillary had enough pledged delegates to take the nomination.The establishment won't decide. The voters will.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Always annoyed to see liberals attacking progressive policies from the right.. Literally doing the job of Conservatives.
Somewhere in hell, Goldwater is surely cackling and clasping his hands.
I'm not attacking it from the right. I'm attacking it from the left. Not his left but The Left.
You know I actually care about good politics happening in the US. Not dreams.
And this isn't even to mention I disagree with much of Sanders, even from the left. His class above all else and his wall street as the root of all evil is terribly misguided and misses the major villains that have hurt the american middle class and driven republican scorched earth
I wonder if Trump is just gonna pick a latino woman.
Trump's going to pick Heidi Cruz just to show the world that nobody likes Cruz. NOBODY.
UltimaPooh
Member
If Bernie's merit as a candidate and leader is so obviously self-evident, primary voters will easily see past the commentary of the "droves of elected Democrats" and vote to pick him. In the end, they still decide for themselves. There is no party official who goes into the booth with you to force your hand from one checkbox to the next.
And Bernie uses the s-word as a modifier to describe his political leanings. Hillary does not. That might not be a big deal to you personally, but to a significant portion of the population, it does, no matter how much you wish to deny it.
Based on your second paragraph it obviously isn't so evident to them... since they think Socialism is a naughty word... Only used in roleplay.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Oh and I love the bernie fans in the reparations thread.
They're on twitter too, the ones who always respond snarkly to every thing because obviously socialism is the solution and the dems are just too corportist...
You, know maybe socialism and marxist historical understanding might have gotten a lot wrong in regards to race, gender and other aspects of human life.
They're on twitter too, the ones who always respond snarkly to every thing because obviously socialism is the solution and the dems are just too corportist...
You, know maybe socialism and marxist historical understanding might have gotten a lot wrong in regards to race, gender and other aspects of human life.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
What are the major villains?I'm not attacking it from the right. I'm attacking it from the left. Not his left but The Left.
You know I actually care about good politics happening in the US. Not dreams.
And this isn't even to mention I disagree with much of Sanders, even from the left. His class above all else and his wall street as the root of all evil is terribly misguided and misses the major villains that have hurt the american middle class and driven republican scorched earth
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I want someone to use "DINO" unironically because that would be awesome.
It's weird because hardcore socialists on Twitter hate New Atheists because New Atheists constantly simplify all of society's ills to a single source (religion) instead of noticing that, while a factor in many forms of sexism and homophobia, it's not the only factor... They also criticize New Atheists for constantly being assholes (which is true!), but they're assholes to everyone. I don't think they get the irony.
Basically: Hardcore Socialists=New Atheists except hardcore socialists think that income inequality is the root of all evil whereas new atheists think that religion is the root of all evil.
Oh and I love the bernie fans in the reparations thread.
They're on twitter too, the ones who always respond snarkly to every thing because obviously socialism is the solution and the dems are just too corportist...
You, know maybe socialism and marxist historical understanding might have gotten a lot wrong in regards to race, gender and other aspects of human life.
It's weird because hardcore socialists on Twitter hate New Atheists because New Atheists constantly simplify all of society's ills to a single source (religion) instead of noticing that, while a factor in many forms of sexism and homophobia, it's not the only factor... They also criticize New Atheists for constantly being assholes (which is true!), but they're assholes to everyone. I don't think they get the irony.
Basically: Hardcore Socialists=New Atheists except hardcore socialists think that income inequality is the root of all evil whereas new atheists think that religion is the root of all evil.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
What are the major villains?
In socialist terms, the Petite bourgeoisie.
I saw a dino at the natural history museum the other day.I want someone to use "DINO" unironically because that would be awesome.
UltimaPooh
Member
You, know maybe socialism and marxist historical understanding might have gotten a lot wrong in regards to race, gender and other aspects of human life.
Like wrong how?
Aside from the idiots you talked about above.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Well, that certainly does play a big part.In socialist terms, the Petite bourgeoisie.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Not ever relationship is economic and the world is divided in to many groups and tribes and its not just the rich vs poor.Like wrong how?
Aside from the idiots you talked about above.
Racism isn't a side effect of the class war. Its primal, and predates civilization. Its not a tool or a drug for the masses. It has its own unquite cause and effect.
Same with sex, gender, expression.
Cultures I'd think fit this way.
I don't think all religious distinction or their structures are all about ensuring the wealthy have power like many marxist think
You've got a convincing refutation of a strawman.Not ever relationship is economic and the world is divided in to many groups and tribes and its not just the rich vs poor.
Racism isn't a side effect of the class war. Its primal, and predates civilization. Its not a tool or a drug for the masses. It has its own unquite cause and effect.
Same with sex, gender, expression.
Cultures I'd think fit this way.
I don't think all religious distinction or their structures are all about ensuring the wealthy have power like many marxist think
Are Conservatives who criticize Trump and Cruz for being unelectable "attacking conservative policies from the left"?
Establishment Dems are doing more than attacking his perceived electability by shitting on liberal policies that are supported by a majority. Things like single payer healthcare, college tuition being free, and a minimum wage of $15.
I'm not attacking it from the right. I'm attacking it from the left. Not his left but The Left.
You know I actually care about good politics happening in the US. Not dreams.
And this isn't even to mention I disagree with much of Sanders, even from the left. His class above all else and his wall street as the root of all evil is terribly misguided and misses the major villains that have hurt the american middle class and driven republican scorched earth
They're only dreams if you treat it as such.
Policy preferences are a spectrum and you are to the left of a mainstream Democrat.
Ye, and this spectrum has been allowed to shift too far to the right over the years.
Retromelon
Member
you know, someone said once that extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. That may or may not be so, but it sure doesn't help the tone of conversation on message boards any.Somewhere in hell, Goldwater is surely cackling and clasping his hands.
Liberals have moved left. I can show you graphs or you can compare Obama's presidency to the last two Democrats.Ye, and this spectrum has been allowed to shift too far to the right over the years.
Liberals have moved left. I can show you graphs or you can compare Obama's presidency to the last two Democrats.
Ironic enough the last three were southern.
UltimaPooh
Member
Not ever relationship is economic and the world is divided in to many groups and tribes and its not just the rich vs poor.
But it is about those with power and those without. Would you agree? That all of these racial and gender inequalities were the cause of those who would wish to have power over others?
Lets look at an actual quote from the writer of the reparations article.
Pretty dumb, no?Reparations is not one possible tool against white supremacy. It is the indispensable tool against white supremacy.
RustyNails
Member
I think Trump will pick Kasich. Safe bet, hail-mary Ohio pass. Will appeal to people turned off by Trump's bluster. Cruz, Rubio and Jeb are out of the question. Christie brings nothing new. Question is whether Kasich is willing to become the pariah.
QuiteWhittle
Member
I think Trump will pick Kasich. Safe bet, hail-mary Ohio pass. Will appeal to people turned off by Trump's bluster. Cruz, Rubio and Jeb are out of the question. Christie brings nothing new. Question is whether Kasich is willing to become the pariah.
I really don't think Kaisch has any interest in being Trump's running mate.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
https://twitter.com/DinosaurDracula/status/689604210615271424
I don't know how he found this but it is by far the best description of the entire day:
https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CZH3VCSW0AEz5Kg.mp4
I don't know how he found this but it is by far the best description of the entire day:
https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CZH3VCSW0AEz5Kg.mp4
Lets look at an actual quote from the writer of the reparations article.
Pretty dumb, no?
No?
Did you really think this post was worth making?
Lets look at an actual quote from the writer of the reparations article.
Pretty dumb, no?
No?
Coates's Atlantic piece on reparations is still one of the most brilliant long form articles I've read in some time.
Do you have anything to say about the quote or are you just shitposting? For example, if you don't agree, you might say why reparations is the indispensable tool against white supremacy.No?
Did you really think this post was worth making?
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Kasich back ahead of Rubio on RCP. Trump's still gonna win, but I'll be happy to just be less wrong than all the people that picked Rubio, Jeb, Carson, and Walker for our contest after Kasich comes closer to winning than any of those other fools.
Basileus777
Member
I think Trump will pick Kasich. Safe bet, hail-mary Ohio pass. Will appeal to people turned off by Trump's bluster. Cruz, Rubio and Jeb are out of the question. Christie brings nothing new. Question is whether Kasich is willing to become the pariah.
Trump's going to have a limited pool to pick from because anyone with a future in politics will be hesitant to throw away their career.
I think Trump will pick Kasich. Safe bet, hail-mary Ohio pass. Will appeal to people turned off by Trump's bluster. Cruz, Rubio and Jeb are out of the question. Christie brings nothing new. Question is whether Kasich is willing to become the pariah.
Hasn't Kasich went really deep on anti-trump ads? I'd be shocked if he took Kasich.
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