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[Deleted member 231381]

That's what MMTers would say. But we don't have a vertical IS curve, and interest rates do affect income.

(that was the joke)

 

[Teggy]

Just saw a Right to Rise anti-Kasich ad during pre-game. Is Bush trying to take everyone out except Trump?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

On a serious note, I don't think MMT needs the interest elasticity of income to be 0 to work unless you're going super hardcore and insisting deficits can be funded indefinitely from new money. To their credit most MMT'ers (most) don't go that far, and are merely proposing this as a short-term measure as a means of demand management. That means they can use the same IS curve as everyone else, and the actual argument ends up being about the what the MPRF looks like under independent vs. non-independent institutions.

 

[kess]

Why is Jeb switching to contacts?

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/691284870883057664

He looks weird without glasses...

"Plz vote for me"

 

[User 463088]

Tina Fey as Palin on SNL's Open

I love Tina. I would marry her. I really would. It would be a sexless marriage, but we'd make each other laugh.

 

[Y2Kev]

Jebra Bush needs to just go home. But not till after he wins the nomination and I win the GAF pool.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

we should have an econGAF thread

with graphs and shit

 

[B-Dubs]

the biggest change in a VP's roll that I witnessed in my lifetime was going from George H.W. Bush being active internationally under Ronald Reagan to the total ceremonial downgrade of Dan Quayle.

a VP's roll can propel one to the Presidency, but the case of Papa Bush was that he already was a former ambassador and former head of the CIA before becoming Veep. He was given lots to do and was already ready to by President in 1988.

a Veep given a cerenominal roll, not so much future for him/her

Agreed. How well positioned a VP is to take the presidency is entirely dependent on the role they play and I don't think Castro would be a ceremonial VP if chosen. Sure he might get picked to run up the numbers, but it would be in the Dems best interest that he plays an active role.

Tina Fey as Palin on SNL's Open

I love Tina. I would marry her. I really would. It would be a sexless marriage, but we'd make each other laugh.

She's my hollywood crush, despite me being much much younger.

 

[campfireweekend]

(that was the joke)

I got that, just pointing it out for the less technically inclinced.

On a serious note, I don't think MMT needs the interest elasticity of income to be 0 to work unless you're going super hardcore and insisting deficits can be funded indefinitely from new money. To their credit most MMT'ers (most) don't go that far, and are merely proposing this as a short-term measure as a means of demand management. That means they can use the same IS curve as everyone else, and the actual argument ends up being about the what the MPRF looks like under independent vs. non-independent institutions.

And sure, but b=0 is the kind of MMT empty vessel subscribed to and convinced a few others on this forum of.

He would state that deficits can indefinitely be funded from new money.

I will say that MMT does have some really novel ideas, especially when it comes to banks and to taxation. I just hope that in response to austerity people on the right, we don't embrace something just as heterodox on the left.

Counter cyclical fiscal policy should be embraced. You shouldn't try to have surpluses during recessions, but you should also try to not have deficits during booms.

 

[campfireweekend]

we should have an econGAF thread

with graphs and shit

Yo, we could.

But this being the Internet, I'm sure it would fill up with Austrians, AnCaps, or MMTers soon enough and any mainstream view such as support for free trade would be derided as corporate ball washing.

I think politics and economics are closely enough linked for the current situation to do.

Btw, you support Sanders, but you also seem well versed in econ. Are there any of his positions that you consider beyond the pale? I'd still vote for him up against any republican, but I'd have to hold my nose for a few reasons.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

And sure, but b=0 is the kind of MMT empty vessel subscribed to and convinced a few others on this forum of.

He would state that deficits can indefinitely be funded from new money.

I know, I encountered emptyvessel once. It was frustrating.

I will say that MMT does have some really novel ideas, especially when it comes to banks and to taxation. I just hope that in response to austerity people on the right, we don't embrace something just as heterodox on the left.

Counter cyclical fiscal policy should be embraced. You shouldn't try to have surpluses during recessions, but you should also try to not have deficits during booms.

I think it's brought a valuable refocus on neochartalism, which as you say has consequences for the financial sector that are interesting. Otherwise, I've never really understood why much of the internet has a hard-on for MMT. You either have the hardcore people like emptyvessel, who were nuts, "central government would be better at interest rates than central banks" MMT'ers, who are... almost certainly wrong for almost all govermental set-ups and to within a degree empirically provably so, or you have the "change the mandate" MMT'ers, at which point you're basically just a new Keynesian with a different label anyway, just argue for NGDP and call it a day instead of picking a hipsterish label to go with what is otherwise a reasonably standard tradition.

At least it's not the Austrians, though. Even just thinking about praxeology makes me want to break things.

 

[campfireweekend]

I know, I encountered emptyvessel once. It was frustrating.



I think it's brought a valuable refocus on neochartalism, which as you say has consequences for the financial sector that are interesting. Otherwise, I've never really understood why much of the internet has a hard-on for MMT. You either have the hardcore people like emptyvessel, who were nuts, "central government would be better at interest rates than central banks" MMT'ers, who are... almost certainly wrong for almost all govermental set-ups and to within a degree empirically provably so, or you have the "change the mandate" MMT'ers, at which point you're basically just a new Keynesian with a different label anyway, just argue for NGDP and call it a day instead of picking a hipsterish label to go with what is otherwise a reasonably standard tradition.

At least it's not the Austrians, though. Even just thinking about praxeology makes me want to break things.

You, I like you.

 

[ugaboga232]

What do all you more learned econ people think of neuroeconomics? Saw some posters around about some class or seminar on it, any buzz about that?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

What do all you more learned econ people think of neuroeconomics? Saw some posters around about some class or seminar on it, any buzz about that?

it's not a school of thought, it's a field. Basically looking at how our brains make cost/benefit calculations, so the bit of neuroscience that applies to economics. Most of us won't know very much about it because the people studying it normally came from science backgrounds and went to economics later, it's harder going the other way because obviously brains are complicated. Not something you'd see as an undergrad other than "this is some cool stuff we're doing! please do our subject".

closest you get as the average econ undergrad is probably behavioural economics (which is interesting, really enjoyed it).

 

[User 406]

And sure, but b=0 is the kind of MMT empty vessel subscribed to and convinced a few others on this forum of.

He would state that deficits can indefinitely be funded from new money.

I will say that MMT does have some really novel ideas, especially when it comes to banks and to taxation. I just hope that in response to austerity people on the right, we don't embrace something just as heterodox on the left.

Counter cyclical fiscal policy should be embraced. You shouldn't try to have surpluses during recessions, but you should also try to not have deficits during booms.

I'm confused, when empty vessel was posting, I don't recall him ever claiming that the government should always run a deficit, in fact he took pains to explain that whether you ran deficits or surpluses should depend on inflation and aggregate demand. The thing is, at the time we were clearly in a situation where deficits were needed. I also remember that that part of his explanations was always ignored, and people kept assuming he was just advocating eternal deficit spending and nothing else.

I'll fully admit I'm a complete layman when it comes to economics, and the recent posts have given me some new stuff to seek out and read, thanks.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

"We've had liberal presidents before...this is the 1st time in modern history that we have a prez that wants to change America," Rubio says

What the fuck?

 

[campfireweekend]

What do all you more learned econ people think of neuroeconomics? Saw some posters around about some class or seminar on it, any buzz about that?

I might doing some research with the professor who wrote this paper on the subject (really good read)

http://neuroecon.berkeley.edu/public/papers/Advances%20in%20health%20economics%20and%20health%20services%20research%202008%20Hsu.pdf

Otherwise, I think it'll be really useful, much like behavioral economics which incorporates psychology instead of neuroscience, in determining how people actually make decisions, which is immensely useful for microeconomics.

 

[ugaboga232]

it's not a school of thought, it's a field. Basically looking at how our brains make cost/benefit calculations, so the bit of neuroscience that applies to economics. Most of us won't know very much about it because the people studying it normally came from science backgrounds and went to economics later, it's harder going the other way because obviously brains are complicated. Not something you'd see as an undergrad other than "this is some cool stuff we're doing! please do our subject".

closest you get as the average econ undergrad is probably behavioural economics (which is interesting, really enjoyed it).

Interesting, im in neuro but its cool to see it begin to branch out (no one really knows much about the brain to begin with so theres still time to cross over). Perhaps I will take a course on it if its offered for grad school. Something tells me the brain is not the rational, logical consumer we hope it is.

 

[ugaboga232]

I might doing some research with the professor who wrote this paper on the subject (really good read)

http://neuroecon.berkeley.edu/public/papers/Advances%20in%20health%20economics%20and%20health%20services%20research%202008%20Hsu.pdf

Otherwise, I think it'll be really useful, much like behavioral economics which incorporates psychology instead of neuroscience, in determining how people actually make decisions, which is immensely useful for microeconomics.

Ah really cool, usually I do not like MRI/fMRI studies given the massive lack of resolution but for neuroecon purposes and looking at aging, could be very interesting! Best of luck with getting into grad school, just went through a similar process a year ago and it sucks (though the phd programs were much much more respectful than the mdphd...)

 

[User 406]

Something tells me the brain is not the rational, logical consumer we hope it is.

I dunno, being a human being for a while pretty much makes that clear. :X

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I might doing some research with the professor who wrote this paper on the subject (really good read)

http://neuroecon.berkeley.edu/public/papers/Advances%20in%20health%20economics%20and%20health%20services%20research%202008%20Hsu.pdf

Otherwise, I think it'll be really useful, much like behavioral economics which incorporates psychology instead of neuroscience, in determining how people actually make decisions, which is immensely useful for microeconomics.

You work with McNamara?

 

[ugaboga232]

I dunno, being a human being for a while pretty much makes that clear. :X

In a way we are perfectly rational but the problem is, what rationale are we following? Motivation is a process very easily co-opted by drugs and psychologically addicting behaviors (basically anything that releases dopamine).

 

[campfireweekend]

I'm confused, when empty vessel was posting, I don't recall him ever claiming that the government should always run a deficit, in fact he took pains to explain that whether you ran deficits or surpluses should depend on inflation and aggregate demand. The thing is, at the time we were clearly in a situation where deficits were needed. I also remember that that part of his explanations was always ignored, and people kept assuming he was just advocating eternal deficit spending and nothing else.

I'll fully admit I'm a complete layman when it comes to economics, and the recent posts have given me some new stuff to seek out and read, thanks.

Hmm, that's not MMT. What you're describing is straight up New Keynesian counter cyclical fiscal and monetary policy. That's not a fringe view in economics, that's straight up doctrine at this point.

It was a very small contingent of economists that brought about austerity, but it was never the consensus view, and their view can be challenged within the conventional NK paradigm without resorting to still debated theories such as MMT.

You work with McNamara?

I don't work with him or any of those authors yet. I am however apply for an undergraduate apprenticeship with Ming Hsu. (fingers crossed)

Also, man, behavioral was mind blowing for me. Prospect theory is amazing.

 

[Frank the Great]

1. Clinton/Julian Castro 2016.

2. Clinton appoints Joaquin Castro as ambassador to an important country.

3. Castro/Castro 2024.

On a serious note, why is there no mention of the possibility of Clinton choosing Joaquin for VP in 2016? Surely he has more experience and it would look less like pandering.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I don't think she should pick either. It needs to be an olive branch to the part of the party that will be disaffected after her loss. Sherrod Brown would be her best possible VP pick.

 

[SL128]

Interesting, im in neuro but its cool to see it begin to branch out (no one really knows much about the brain to begin with so theres still time to cross over). Perhaps I will take a course on it if its offered for grad school. Something tells me the brain is not the rational, logical consumer we hope it is.

In a way we are perfectly rational but the problem is, what rationale are we following? Motivation is a process very easily co-opted by drugs and psychologically addicting behaviors (basically anything that releases dopamine).

For you and everyone else interested in cognitive biases (and to a lesser extent, their relation to economics), I strongly recommend reading this

 

[Aaron Strife]

I don't think she should pick either. It needs to be an olive branch to the part of the party that will be disaffected after her loss. Sherrod Brown would be her best possible VP pick.

I think there are a lot of minorities who will be a little upset by seeing the Democrats return to an all-white ticket.

 

[disastermouse]

You work with McNamara?

Rob McNamara? The guy who wrote 'The Elegant Self'?

 

[Manmademan]

I think there are a lot of minorities who will be a little upset by seeing the Democrats return to an all-white ticket.

not really, no. Minorities aren't as sensitive as white people are to that sort of thing.

 

[campfireweekend]

Interesting, im in neuro but its cool to see it begin to branch out (no one really knows much about the brain to begin with so theres still time to cross over). Perhaps I will take a course on it if its offered for grad school. Something tells me the brain is not the rational, logical consumer we hope it is.

Kahneman among other behavioral economists are tackling rational expectations theory and the standard utility paradigm. You should really read the book posted below. Also, look up Prospect Theory.

For you and everyone else interested in cognitive biases (and to a lesser extent, their relation to economics), I strongly recommend reading this

 

[B-Dubs]

Rob McNamara? The guy who wrote 'The Elegant Self'?

Paul McNamara.

 

[User 463088]

Is anyone phone banking for Hillary (or Bernie) this week? I'm going to be doing it on Saturday at least. I wanted to do more, but I have to do some things for my new job.

 

[gutter_trash]

1.) it's "role", not "roll" here.

2.) you're missing the MASSIVE upgrade from Dan Quayle, to Al Gore, to Dick Cheyney.

Quayle was entirely ceremonial, Gore was not, and Cheyney was "president in everything but name" and ran the white house.

I didn't say that it was permanently downgraded, I just said that when a VEEP gets important portfolios to work on, they get a better shot as opposed to ribbon cutters.

 

[User 406]

Considering Castro's work with education initiatives, it would be a nice thing for him to start by helping spearhead the push for Hillary's education reform policies.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Is anyone phone banking for Hillary (or Bernie) this week? I'm going to be doing it on Saturday at least. I wanted to do more, but I have to do some things for my new job.

Never done it before, but I'm considering it.

 

[User 463088]

Never done it before, but I'm considering it.

Awesome. You should do it. It's a lot of fun. Obama had a really cool system where you could do it from your computer using a headset. Not sure if that was in the Primary as well or just the GE.

One of the women from our local offices is hosting a phone bank at her house. We're only calling Iowa, I think. I know about 10 of us have signed up so far. Not sure if we're doing it virtually or on our phones. She asked us to bring our computers and a headset if we have one.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Awesome. You should do it. It's a lot of fun. Obama had a really cool system where you could do it from your computer using a headset. Not sure if that was in the Primary as well or just the GE.

Sanders has one of those for this primary. Does Clinton not?

 

[Into]

Cruz am done.

 

[User 463088]

Sanders has one of those for this primary. Does Clinton not?

She does, ya, so far as I know. I haven't phone banked this cycle yet. .

I just don't know if we're using it for this or if we're using a traditional voter list. I'm not sure if this is a campaign sponsored event or just something the lady is doing.

Edit: Yes, I just got an email with an account setup for me to phone bank through Maestro.

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

Looking at the recent polling data, the way Trump stole the evangelical vote in Iowa in two weeks to equal Cruz is fascinating. #hispanicsfortrump

 

[NeoXChaos]

Matthew Dowd
‏@matthewjdowd
A week out from IA:Trump up Iowa +11,NH +17, SC +19, FL +19, GA +10, and nationally +14.If Trump wins IA, is there really a way to stop him?

.

 

[PBY]

.

That 3-2-1 plan tho

 

[B-Dubs]

.

If Trump wins Iowa it seals it all up, especially since it looked like he may not have it a few weeks ago. It'll play perfectly into his narrative and he'll just ride the resulting momentum to the nomination.

 

[Manmademan]

If Trump wins Iowa it seals it all up, especially since it looked like he may not have it a few weeks ago. It'll play perfectly into his narrative and he'll just ride the resulting momentum to the nomination.

Trump winning iowa may lead to the VERY rare circumstance where a GOP candidate wins every fucking state in a row.

I don't see any other outcome. This is amazing, given what nate silver etc were saying for months now.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Donald Trump sometimes is completely out of his depth and incoherent in a way that isn't calculated:

 

[Aaron Strife]

not really, no. Minorities aren't as sensitive as white people are to that sort of thing.

I wouldn't be so sure, although I admit my thinking here is based purely on anecdotal experience.

Considering Castro's work with education initiatives, it would be a nice thing for him to start by helping spearhead the push for Hillary's education reform policies.

sup

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

.

Basically you have to hope (or not, depending on your predictit wagers) that Iowa polls are way off. Accuracy of other polls don't matter quite as much yet since Iowa results could affect future outcomes.

That Fox Iowa poll is a real lead for Trump, although just outside the MoE.

I'd put him over 50 overall for nomination though now. The loss scenarios seem narrower than the winning ones.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I think there are a lot of minorities who will be a little upset by seeing the Democrats return to an all-white ticket.

Marcia Fudge, then - black woman from a swing state who's done a lot of work for feminism; also quite charismatic. The point is picking someone who like Castro who is both uncharismatic and politically amorphous isn't a good move for Clinton to make; there are plenty of minorities who could appease the progressive wing of the Democratic party. I just picked Brown because he has slightly more profile.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Marcia Fudge, then - black woman from a swing state who's done a lot of work for feminism; also quite charismatic. The point is picking someone who like Castro who is both uncharismatic and politically amorphous isn't a good move for Clinton to make; there are plenty of minorities who could appease the progressive wing of the Democratic party. I just picked Brown because he has slightly more profile.

Things that will never happen:

Vice President Ellison

 

[Deleted member 231381]

That would be a bad-ass as fuck statement to make, tbf.