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[Coriolanus]

Where did the notion come from that he was a great business man?

Well, he's rich. People don't accidentally stumble into wealth. Thus, since he's still loaded, he must be a great business man.

 

[benjipwns]

Sometimes they inherit $200 million in NYC real estate though.

 

[ivysaur12]

Sometimes they inherit $200 million in NYC real estate though.

Through a bootstrap business.

 

[Dan]

All Donald Trump done since entering the race is burn business relationships that will lose him money. His presidential run is doing the exact opposite of what it was aimed to do, which was to enhance his brand.

Where did the notion come from that he was a great business man?

The idea that's a good businessman has been a fallacy for eons. It's just because he's got his name on all kinds of buildings and shit, but he's spectacular at getting other people to fund things branded with his name and then to lose tons of money. He branded himself relatively well, and plenty of idiots throw money at him for permission to use his name, but he's actually rather shit.

In short, people who think he's a good businessman don't know anything about business.

 

[RustyNails]

NO I'VE BEEN QUOTED MESSING UP YOUR AND YOU'RE NOW I'M GOING TO DIE

EDIT: Also lololololol

We get the government we deserve.

 

[Oblivion]

Wait, the delay for the Iran deal was only a week? LOL. Why is everyone flipping their shit?

 

[Coriolanus]

Wait, the delay for the Iran deal was only a week? LOL. Why is everyone flipping their shit?

24 hour news cycle, would be my guess.

 

[Abinash117]

You realize Bernie is like the exact opposite of Paul right?

Something I really don't understand.

Some people support Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders at similar terms, despite being having very divergent ideologues.

It seems like they are like single issue voters; only really care if they both seem anti-establishment and anti-corporate.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Something I really don't understand.

Some people support Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders at similar terms, despite being having very divergent ideologues.

It seems like they are like single issue voters; only really care if they both seem anti-establishment and anti-corporate.

Because the only thing Reddit posts about the Paul Family MLM scam is that they're anti-war, pro-criminal reform, and pro-pot, so how bad could they be?

 

[Orbis Tabula]

I have a friend who is a big Sanders supporter right now. Posts about him on Facebook 3 or 4 times a day. Funny thing is, before this, I only ever remember him posting about politics on Facebook one time, back in 2012. Something along the lines of "America is sick, and all these politicians are only offering band-aids. What America needs is a Doctor." Along with a picture of Ron Paul. I responded with something stupid like "A doctor that doesn't believe in evolution..." and we argued a bit about that. Anyway, I always assumed the guy was a libertarion, until now. When he's suuuuper into Sanders. I mean, I like the swing, but I don't really get it.

 

[Oblivion]

According to a new CNN/ORC poll, 63% support the Court's ruling upholding government assistance for lower-income Americans buying health insurance through both state-operated and federally-run health insurance exchanges. Slightly fewer, 59%, say they back the ruling which made same-sex marriages legal in all 50 states.
Support for each ruling is sharply divided by party, with most Democrats and independents behind both, and most Republicans opposed to both.

Democrats are more apt to say they back the ruling on the 2010 health care law sometimes referred to as Obamacare -- 79% back it -- than they are to support the same-sex marriage decision, of which 70% favor. Among Republicans, 54% said they oppose the ruling on health care, while 59% oppose the ruling on same-sex marriage, not a statistically-significant difference. Among independents, 63% support each ruling.

Wow, at both of those overall numbers. The gay marriage one is particularly interesting. Thought it would have just been a bare majority.

Fox bending over backwards to defend bristol's pregnancy.

Link?

 

[Poodlestrike]

Something I really don't understand.

Some people support Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders at similar terms, despite being having very divergent ideologues.

It seems like they are like single issue voters; only really care if they both seem anti-establishment and anti-corporate.

It's kind of the same core thought processes that have won Putin support from the far Left and the far Right in Europe. It's not about what they're for, it's about what they're against.

 

[Oblivion]

edit: goddamn it nm

 

[NeoXChaos]

Wow, at both of those overall numbers. The gay marriage one is particularly interesting. Thought it would have just been a bare majority.




Link?

I have my popcorn for the Republican debates, my salt ready for Bernie and his supporters and eventually tears in a bottle for election night.

 

[Abinash117]

It's kind of the same core thought processes that have won Putin support from the far Left and the far Right in Europe. It's not about what they're for, it's about what they're against.

I was actually thinking that example, I didn't think it would have appropriate to what I was saying over all.

I guess it really like those or single issue voters. Although, it really seems very very shortsighted. People like Rand and Sanders have very different to want to approach certain things. I assume people that support both of those people have a tendency to lean left, I really doubt those people would be satisfied with how Rand would do things.

 

[RustyNails]

I think we should cut Col. Sanders and his army some slack. What he's doing is galvanizing a segment of population that is usually apolitical. For better or for worse, at least some of them will become politically aware and once they realize how the game works, might fall in line. Full disclosure: Ron Paul in 2008 got me hooked in politics way more than John Kerry did in 2004. Of course I grew up a bit too. But once I realized that some of the kooky stuff he said combined with his snowball's chance in hell, I found my way to the democratic base.

 

[ivysaur12]

I have a friend who is a big Sanders supporter right now. Posts about him on Facebook 3 or 4 times a day. Funny thing is, before this, I only ever remember him posting about politics on Facebook one time, back in 2012. Something along the lines of "America is sick, and all these politicians are only offering band-aids. What America needs is a Doctor." Along with a picture of Ron Paul. I responded with something stupid like "A doctor that doesn't believe in evolution..." and we argued a bit about that. Anyway, I always assumed the guy was a libertarion, until now. When he's suuuuper into Sanders. I mean, I like the swing, but I don't really get it.

I know a woman who was a hardcore libertarian who can't stop posting about Bernie now. I legitimately don't get it. Their philosophy of government are COMPLETELY at odds.

She's also weird. But that's a different issue.

 

[Oblivion]

Have we discussed Rand Paul's romantic date with Cliven Bundy?

Threaten to literally kill federal agents and hobnob with some shithead senator. Amurka.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

I know a woman who was a hardcore libertarian who can't stop posting about Bernie now. I legitimately don't get it. Their philosophy of government are COMPLETELY at odds.

She's also weird. But that's a different issue.

Convincing a vote from people who don't actually understand politics or policy is pretty much the singular aim of populism lol.

Have we discussed Rand Paul's romantic date with Cliven Bundy?

Threaten to literally kill federal agents and hobnob with some shithead senator. Amurka.

When did this happen? That's gross.

 

[Retromelon]

Bernie is too real to be president. "If he cant comb his hair then how can we expect him to lead the country"
Idk what his supporters are so excited about , do they think the republicans will help him on legislation when they wouldnt with our more centrist current president

 

[Aaron Strife]

The people supporting Bernie and Paul at the same time don't care about ideology, they just know the current system isn't working and they want change, damn it! It doesn't matter what kind of change it is, change is always good.

 

[eBay Huckster]

So what is Hillary's social site?

you mean aside from literally all of major social media?

 

[Coriolanus]

Idk what his supporters are so excited about , do they think the republicans will help him on legislation when they wouldnt with our more centrist current president

Tbh that's a bit of a moot point, unless anyone harbors delusions of republican methods changing when hillster gets the seat.

 

[thepotatoman]

You realize Bernie is like the exact opposite of Paul right?

What about foreign policy, criminal justice, and privacy issues?

Economically he was even further right than the other republicans, but for most other issues I thought he'd be closer to Sanders than any other republican running.

 

[pigeon]

What about foreign policy, criminal justice, and privacy issues?

Economically he was even further right than the other republicans, but for most other issues I thought he'd be closer to Sanders than any other republican running.

I mean, sure, in the sense that Paul has leftist positions on these issues. But Sanders doesn't have positions on those issues! There's no mention of any of those topics on his website, nor are they fundamental to his positioning, nor his base.

I think this is one of those situations where people are saying, well, civil liberties is anti-establishment, Sanders is anti-establishment, he must be for civil liberties. But, if anything, their absence from his platform suggests that he is close to the Democratic mainstream on them. So Paul is close to Sanders in the same way that he's close to Clinton.

 

[Oblivion]

When did this happen? That's gross.

Today.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Serious question: have the Republicans forgotten Hillary has a primary? Everyone of them referenced her in their announcement speech.

The latest from Christie:

That's not where Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton belongs, he said.

"After seven years of a weak and feckless foreign policy run by Barack Obama, we better not turn it over to his second mate, Hillary Clinton."

I guess Bernie, O'Malley, etc does not exist to them

 

[Abinash117]

What about foreign policy, criminal justice, and privacy issues?

Economically he was even further right than the other republicans, but for most other issues I thought he'd be closer to Sanders than any other republican running.

Their solutions to the problems are different like Paul is more anti-government seemingly. I think that the people that support both those people want more government involvement to social issues without directly saying it. Like to fix the income equality issue they might say raise the minimum wage through congress or the president should do it , and more regs on corporations.

 

[Abinash117]

Bernie is too real to be president. "If he cant comb his hair then how can we expect him to lead the country"
Idk what his supporters are so excited about , do they think the republicans will help him on legislation when they wouldnt with our more centrist current president

I think some people know this he wouldn't, but don't care and they want him because purely of ideological reasons knowing that he probably won't be able to get anything done. I think quite a few people really thinks working with Republicans is similar to selling your soul or anything less exaggerated. Which is fucking retarded way of thinking, unless the liberal party has a super majority on both houses and keeps them, or they probably think that the liberal base will all come out and vote for liberal congressmen once he runs because they think he would be popular enough.

 

[Farmboy]

Bernie is too real to be president. "If he cant comb his hair then how can we expect him to lead the country"
Idk what his supporters are so excited about , do they think the republicans will help him on legislation when they wouldnt with our more centrist current president

The sad truth is that, in terms of working with congress, it won't matter much who the president is. As Jonathan Chait argued in response to Hillary's campaign (re-)launch, the most important domestic issue (apart from judicial appointments) is veto'ing the Ryan budget:

Clinton suggested she would break through the gridlock, which has prevented any significant legislative progress since Republicans won the House in 2010, by using some difficult-to-imagine combination of fighting harder and cooperating more. (“I’ll always seek common ground with friend and opponent alike. But I’ll also stand my ground when I must.”) Neither Clinton’s fighting nor Clinton’s seeking common ground will make Republicans in Congress vote for policies that (1) they believe are bad for America, (2) will subject them to a primary challenge, or (3) would increase Clinton’s popularity by showing she can work with the opposing party.

Jeb Bush has already endorsed the Ryan budget. Marco Rubio has voted for it and said, “by and large, it's exactly the direction we should be headed.” The other candidates have positioned themselves to their right. Now, it is true that some prospective Republican presidents might insist on some change or another in the details of the Ryan plan. The Ryan plan itself has a lot of wiggle room due to the simple fact that it lacks detail. But the overall thrust is perfectly clear: deep cuts in marginal tax rates along with large reductions in means-tested spending, and a deregulation of the energy and financial industries. Its enactment would amount to the most dramatic rollback of government since the New Deal. Its enormous implications have simply been forgotten because the political world's attention has moved on.

As Ryan himself recently put it, “You’ve got to have someone sign something into law, and we don’t have that right now.” Electing a Republican means putting in place a president who will no longer use the veto to block the Republican domestic policy agenda, but will instead enact it into law.

It says something about the state of American politics that the most important thing a president will probably do is make sure legislation is not signed, but it's important all the same. The Ryan budget would be disastrous, certainly in terms of income equality and the already fragile middle class.

 

[pigeon]

Their solutions to the problems are different like Paul is more anti-government seemingly. I think that the people that support both those people want more government involvement to social issues without directly saying it. Like to fix the income equality issue they might say raise the minimum wage through congress or the president should do it , and more regs on corporations.

I mean, but they support Rand Paul! That's pretty much the opposite of all his policy positions. I'm pretty sure he's talked about repealing the minimum wage entirely.

It is definitely possible that people who support Rand Paul have made up fake positions they wish he had taken on economic issues in order to avoid dealing with his real positions, but, again, I think that self-deception is involved somewhere along the line.

 

[FiggyCal]

I find it disheartening when some Bernie supporters say that their second choice is Rand Paul. I don't get it.

But as far as I can tell Bernie is not as crazy as Ron Paul was. He's not talking about abolishing the federal reserve, privatizing the entirety of public schools, returning to the gold standard, etc. I also can't help but feel that those same people that supported Ron Paul and are now behind Sanders have no idea what socialism is.

The big difference is that I can actually get behind most of Bernie's ideas.

I think Hillary should and will still be the nominee. There's no harm in Bernie running and getting support for progressive ideas.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The idea that's a good businessman has been a fallacy for eons. It's just because he's got his name on all kinds of buildings and shit, but he's spectacular at getting other people to fund things branded with his name and then to lose tons of money. He branded himself relatively well, and plenty of idiots throw money at him for permission to use his name, but he's actually rather shit.

In short, people who think he's a good businessman don't know anything about business.

I don't think it's a fallacy I think what trump illustrates is how hard it is for people who are born rich to actually lose. The system prevents them at every step from going backwards

 

[User 406]

Why am I certain that this assbutt is talking about marriage equality and not the SEVEN BLACK CHRISTIAN CHURCHES THAT HAVE BEEN SET ON FUCKING FIRE THAT NOBODY SEEMS TO BE TALKING ABOUT

 

[ErasureAcer]

Bernie is too real to be president. "If he cant comb his hair then how can we expect him to lead the country"
Idk what his supporters are so excited about , do they think the republicans will help him on legislation when they wouldnt with our more centrist current president

If Bernie gets elected president it is the perfect platform to get anyone of decency elected. Change won't come the first 2 years, not really...no. But I'd imagine in 2018, 20 and 22 there would be a majority of assholes leaving congress and some decent Bernie-ites coming in to help the guy out. He has the Presidency...he can set the focus 99% of the time on what the hell the major issues of the day are. Awareness for many ignored but important issues like climate change could rise to the #1 issue. Or the gap in wealth disparity and so on. Congress can continue to ignore these issues at their own peril or Bernie can inspire good people to run for congress to address these issues. I'd imagine nothing more inspirational than him winning the Presidency. If you want to wait potentially another 8 years to even begin to fix these problems...yeah, don't vote for Bernie. Let's watch the world burn.

 

[ErasureAcer]

I find it disheartening when some Bernie supporters say that their second choice is Rand Paul. I don't get it.

But as far as I can tell Bernie is not as crazy as Ron Paul was. He's not talking about abolishing the federal reserve, privatizing the entirety of public schools, returning to the gold standard, etc. I also can't help but feel that those same people that supported Ron Paul and are now behind Sanders have no idea what socialism is.

The big difference is that I can actually get behind most of Bernie's ideas.

I think Hillary should and will still be the nominee. There's no harm in Bernie running and getting support for progressive ideas.

All I said was Ron Paul was the best of Republicans (in the last campaign) and you've equated that with Bernie supporters love Rand Paul. I don't even like Ron Paul...he was the best of the worst. I despise Rand Paul.

 

[FiggyCal]

All I said was Ron Paul was the best of Republicans (in the last campaign) and you've equated that with Bernie supporters love Rand Paul. I don't even like Ron Paul...he was the best of the worst. I despise Rand Paul.

Not at all. I frequent r/SandersForPresident <_<

And have noticed a few people saying that Rand Paul is the bees knees. I wasn't saying you specifically.

I also don't know if Ron Paul was the best of the worst. But he was immensely more likeable than the next republican.

 

[Mike M]

I would be surprised if anyone could demonstrate that a substantial amount of Ron Paul's supporters haven't hitched their wagon to Rand Paul.

 

[Coriolanus]

I would be surprised if anyone could demonstrate that a substantial amount of Ron Paul's supporters haven't hitched their wagon to Rand Paul.

I'd be surprised if anyone could demonstrate that they have.

I'm fine with people demonstrating either, really. Provided they stop going "lol anecdotes".

 

[pigeon]

All I said was Ron Paul was the best of Republicans (in the last campaign) and you've equated that with Bernie supporters love Rand Paul. I don't even like Ron Paul...he was the best of the worst. I despise Rand Paul.

Well, you can't blame us, since you've failed to give any reasoning behind why you thought Ron Paul was the best Republican.

 

[Rhomega Beta]

Considering that Rosa Parks was deliberately picked as a face of segregation because of her introvertness and soreness at the end of a hard job, anyone they want really.

 

[RustyNails]

I think when people say Ron was the best Republican, they mean that he was not a slimeball politician or an opportunist. He has more integrity. He even got booed on the RNC stage for advocating the golden rule.

 

[NeoXChaos]

If Bernie gets elected president it is the perfect platform to get anyone of decency elected. Change won't come the first 2 years, not really...no. But I'd imagine in 2018, 20 and 22 there would be a majority of assholes leaving congress and some decent Bernie-ites coming in to help the guy out. He has the Presidency...he can set the focus 99% of the time on what the hell the major issues of the day are. Awareness for many ignored but important issues like climate change could rise to the #1 issue. Or the gap in wealth disparity and so on. Congress can continue to ignore these issues at their own peril or Bernie can inspire good people to run for congress to address these issues. I'd imagine nothing more inspirational than him winning the Presidency. If you want to wait potentially another 8 years to even begin to fix these problems...yeah, don't vote for Bernie. Let's watch the world burn.

Well I didn't believe you would go that far but here we are. That statement is wrong, irresponsible and downright ignorant. It is not the end of the United States if Bernie is not elected. The Sanders "savior" complex is so scary to me its unreal. Face reality man, BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT GOING TO BE ELECTED IN THIS COUNTRY, HE IS NOT GOING TO BE THE NOMINEE & HILLARY IS GOING TO BE THE STANDARD BEARER OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN 2016.(sorry for the caps).

 

[Cheebo]

If Bernie gets elected president it is the perfect platform to get anyone of decency elected. .

There is no possibility of him getting elected, it isn't even worth entertaining as viable. Even Rick Santorum is more likely to be president than Bernie.

The Democratic primary is already over, its Hillary vs whoever the GOP nominates. There is no real serious possibility of any other outcome in the Democratic primary unless Hillary has some kind of dramatic health issue that causes her to have to pull out.

And whoever on the last page said Bernie supporters are the Democratic version of the Paultards from 08/12 was dead on. The comparison is remarkably similar and fitting.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Well I didn't believe you would go that far but here we are. That statement is wrong, irresponsible and downright ignorant.

You think the Republicans are going to combat climate change? Hahahahahahaha. You think Hillary will bring about some progressive revolution to combat climate change? Hahahahahahahaha.

 

[Cheebo]

You think the Republicans are going to combat climate change? Hahahahahahaha. You think Hillary will bring about some progressive revolution to combat climate change? Hahahahahahahaha.

Hillary will combat climate change with her policies. She is very much on the right side of this debate, and for years.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

If Bernie gets elected president it is the perfect platform to get anyone of decency elected. Change won't come the first 2 years, not really...no. But I'd imagine in 2018, 20 and 22 there would be a majority of assholes leaving congress and some decent Bernie-ites coming in to help the guy out. He has the Presidency...he can set the focus 99% of the time on what the hell the major issues of the day are. Awareness for many ignored but important issues like climate change could rise to the #1 issue. Or the gap in wealth disparity and so on. Congress can continue to ignore these issues at their own peril or Bernie can inspire good people to run for congress to address these issues. I'd imagine nothing more inspirational than him winning the Presidency. If you want to wait potentially another 8 years to even begin to fix these problems...yeah, don't vote for Bernie. Let's watch the world burn.

If your support for your candidate has reached such a point that even problems like "Congress isn't as liberal as him" can be solved by Bernie Sanders magic pulling liberals out of the woodwork, I think you need to take a step back.
If you think that after 2 or 4 or 6 years of a candidate saying "income in quality is bad" while nothing gets done will somehow lead to an influx of until-now-invisible socialists to support him, I don't know what to say. Congress has been ignoring these issues for a while now, and peril isn't the word I'd use to describe what they've reaped.

 

[NeoXChaos]

The GOP's Rob Portman Problem.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/the-gop-s-rob-portman-predicament-20150630?utm_content=buffer52e4f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Republican Senate candidates face the harsh reality that their party's presidential nominees have a bigger impact on their reelection than their own campaigns.

All politics is no longer local; each election more closely resembles a national referendum. If Hillary Clinton wins the presidency, she's well-positioned to bring the Senate along with her.

For this cycle, the map is difficult for Republicans, who are defending many more seats than their Democratic counterparts. Of the nine most-competitive Senate seats, seven are held by Republicans&#8212;and six feature sitting Republican senators. Eight of the races are being held in states that President Obama carried twice.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Clinton has raised $45 million dollars so far.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/hillary-clinton-campaign-fundraising-first-quarter-119636.html?hp=t2_r

While the campaign&#8217;s efforts are expected to be supplemented by the Priorities USA Action super PAC &#8212; which is ramping up its own big-money efforts &#8212; the $45 million figure is just for the campaign committee.

 

[pigeon]

If Bernie gets elected president it is the perfect platform to get anyone of decency elected. Change won't come the first 2 years, not really...no. But I'd imagine in 2018, 20 and 22 there would be a majority of assholes leaving congress and some decent Bernie-ites coming in to help the guy out. He has the Presidency...he can set the focus 99% of the time on what the hell the major issues of the day are. Awareness for many ignored but important issues like climate change could rise to the #1 issue. Or the gap in wealth disparity and so on. Congress can continue to ignore these issues at their own peril or Bernie can inspire good people to run for congress to address these issues. I'd imagine nothing more inspirational than him winning the Presidency. If you want to wait potentially another 8 years to even begin to fix these problems...yeah, don't vote for Bernie. Let's watch the world burn.

I mean, this is a little more coherent, but I still think incorrect.

The argument here is basically that if Bernie Sanders gets elected, America will become more progressive, so we'll elect more progressives, and then we'll pass progressive legislation. This is reasonable, but I think you have cause and effect backwards. If Bernie Sanders gets elected, it will mean American has become more progressive. Obviously that would be great! And, I mean, America is becoming more progressive, so it's not totally impossible. But advocating for Sanders to be elected so that America will be more progressive is a little like putting your thermometer in the freezer because you want it to snow outside. The thermometer isn't doing the work.