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PoliGAF 2015 |OT2| Pls print

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"Hillary Clinton helped Barack Hussein Obama crash the global economy so her Wall Street fatcat backers could make trillions shorting the market. But CANDIDATE NAME HERE is ready to fight to get Washington regulators off the back of job creators and hardworking small business owners, and build a new prosperity for America."

C'mon, are we forgetting Karl Rove already? They can totally take two completely contradictory positions at the same time and sell it with a straight face. They've done it plenty of times.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Its best Hillary's vulnerabilities are exposed now in the primaries by Bernie Sanders so she can work on them, instead of getting tripped by Rovian attacks.
 

RDreamer

Member
"Hillary Clinton helped Barack Hussein Obama crash the global economy so her Wall Street fatcat backers could make trillions shorting the market. But CANDIDATE NAME HERE is ready to fight to get Washington regulators off the back of job creators and hardworking small business owners, and build a new prosperity for America."

C'mon, are we forgetting Karl Rove already? They can totally take two completely contradictory positions at the same time and sell it with a straight face. They've done it plenty of times.

Especially considering they tried running Paul fucking Ryan and his plan with "He wants to save Medicare!"
 

GnawtyDog

Banned
This makes no sense.

Republicans won't paint her as being lax on Wall Street because that's exactly what they want from a president.

They'll try to do the opposite: paint her as an over-regulating, job-killing Democrat.

Well, don't be surprised when they do both then. Cause they will. You're trying to paint a contradiction in message that is simply ludicrous - there is none. You could easily spin her "over-regulation" stance on what "resonates" with voters. Clinton = high taxes, over-regulation for small businesses, innovation killer vs. free pass, bought by Wall Street hedge-fund managers.

Like I said it's irrelevant when it comes to attacks ads. Denigrating her character, associations and record is the #1 priority. Nothing better that having a small clip with Clinton herself saying she represents Wall Street with the foregone conclusion being that she does NOT represent your average voter. Goes along nicely with Republican attacks on the Clinton Foundation and its source of donations, wall street money etc...

Makes too much damn sense. Not to mention the elephant in the room, since when does being lax, bought by Wall Street = popular positive? It's an overwhelming negative no matter which base we talk about - certainly not the fair right GOP (tea party), nor the far left dems.
 
"Hillary Clinton helped Barack Hussein Obama crash the global economy so her Wall Street fatcat backers could make trillions shorting the market. But CANDIDATE NAME HERE is ready to fight to get Washington regulators off the back of job creators and hardworking small business owners, and build a new prosperity for America."

C'mon, are we forgetting Karl Rove already? They can totally take two completely contradictory positions at the same time and sell it with a straight face. They've done it plenty of times.

How could we ever forget Karl Rove?

megan-kelly-karl-rove.jpg
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Just had a omigodim26anddidntreallyneedhealthinsurancdbutDID moment.

Thanks Obama for the fine-costing health insurance. Still dream of single payer, but this'll do for now.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
"Hillary Clinton helped Barack Hussein Obama crash the global economy so her Wall Street fatcat backers could make trillions shorting the market. But CANDIDATE NAME HERE is ready to fight to get Washington regulators off the back of job creators and hardworking small business owners, and build a new prosperity for America."

C'mon, are we forgetting Karl Rove already? They can totally take two completely contradictory positions at the same time and sell it with a straight face. They've done it plenty of times.

I still remember Republicans attacking obama for chained CPI and the sequester cuts that he only accepted as a compromise to the Republicans.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member

I guess he's like Rove in that he frequently is on Fox News's payroll.

If you're talking about someone that actually influences Democrat's political strategy, then the only thing that comes to mind is Axelrod, though that's more for organizational tactics instead of message crafting. I don't know if Democrats have any superstars known for being able to craft a message.

That probably just points out the overall difference in strategy, where Republicans are focused in messaging and Democrats are focused in organizing and targeting.
 
Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha..

Even legitimate local news outlets are running with this.. 😄
Alright. Got a feeling. Hold Kentucky, pick up Louisiana. Jim Hood does so well in the AG race in Mississippi that he automatically gets promoted to governor.

Dixiecrat miracle.

Btw the LA gov is actually very powerful - he appoints committee chairmen in the legislature. So even if Edwards were governor with Republican majorities in the legislature he could appoint allies to legislative posts.
 

teiresias

Member
I still remember Republicans attacking obama for chained CPI and the sequester cuts that he only accepted as a compromise to the Republicans.

And the Freedom Caucus is willing to shut down the government and go over the fiscal cliff to keep the sequester in place - and even non-Tea Party Republicans want to keep them but create loop holes for defense spending. It's horrendously disgusting if you ask me - the way the GOP wants to kill the domestic homeland to fund war abroad.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
Alright. Got a feeling. Hold Kentucky, pick up Louisiana. Jim Hood does so well in the AG race in Mississippi that he automatically gets promoted to governor.

Dixiecrat miracle.

Btw the LA gov is actually very powerful - he appoints committee chairmen in the legislature. So even if Edwards were governor with Republican majorities in the legislature he could appoint allies to legislative posts.

You know an election is coming when Optimistic Aaron is back.
 
You know an election is coming when Optimistic Aaron is back.
Well. I do think Conway will win KY. That's the only firm prediction I'd like to make - Dems could win the State Senate majority in VA but it seems like a tossup at best, and I hear Hood is doing fine in MS (seems AG is viewed as nonpartisan enough that they're fine with a token Democrat) but I haven't paid much attention. Vitter losing... I'll really have to see it to believe it. But no reason not to hope when things seem to be breaking our way.
 

HylianTom

Banned
I really do think Vitter would lose to Edwards at this point. Multiple polls have shown it happening to the point where it seems pretty consistent.

Where I'm a bit uneasy with this news is the timing. If this sways enough voters to Angelle or Dardenne (the other Republicans in our open primary), Edwards would have a much tougher time in the runoff. I wish that this news had emerged a week from today instead.

Today's the last day of early voting, so early voting math further adds to the uncertainty; there's a certain portion of the vote that's already baked-in. Now I'm hoping that Vitters' early voting efforts were enough to cushion him.
 
Well. I do think Conway will win KY. That's the only firm prediction I'd like to make - Dems could win the State Senate majority in VA but it seems like a tossup at best, and I hear Hood is doing fine in MS (seems AG is viewed as nonpartisan enough that they're fine with a token Democrat) but I haven't paid much attention. Vitter losing... I'll really have to see it to believe it. But no reason not to hope when things seem to be breaking our way.
Did you see the internal showing Bevin losing he released? Lol
 
I don't see why she's playing it safe with marijuana. If anything, saying you're for legalization could help with turnout among young voters.
Probably because you'd placate some young people who are still unlikely to turnout anyway to further turnoff the culturally conservative non-college educated [white] vote that the Democratic party is progressively losing.

On a related aside, this was a pretty interesting column:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/07/opinion/how-did-the-democrats-become-favorites-of-the-rich.html
On the continuing shift in the Democratic vote.
 

Gotchaye

Member
I get why Clinton wouldn't want to come out as pro-marijuana, but her answer in the debate sounded nakedly political - it didn't seem like honest doubt about the issue. I have to think that it hurts her less to just be pro-legalization than to reinforce that she's saying whatever it takes to get elected.
 

RDreamer

Member
I get why Clinton wouldn't want to come out as pro-marijuana, but her answer in the debate sounded nakedly political - it didn't seem like honest doubt about the issue. I have to think that it hurts her less to just be pro-legalization than to reinforce that she's saying whatever it takes to get elected.

That was my problem with the answer, and one of the reasons I thought she came across as a weather vane. It's a really disappointing answer.

That along with her non explanation about the emails and why she apologized and now says its political, etc. and her saying she represented Wall Street but told them to cut it out...

She just disappointed me most of the debate. It really sucks going from someone like Obama who is energizing and felt genuine to Clinton who just feels so politically motivated at every turn. Ugh
 

NeoXChaos

Member
That was my problem with the answer, and one of the reasons I thought she came across as a weather vane. It's a really disappointing answer.

That along with her non explanation about the emails and why she apologized and now says its political, etc. and her saying she represented Wall Street but told them to cut it out...

She just disappointed me most of the debate. It really sucks going from someone like Obama who is energizing and felt genuine to Clinton who just feels so politically motivated at every turn. Ugh

If it was not for Obama it was going to be her as President. Its possible in such a scenario Obama would be in Clinton's position now.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I get why Clinton wouldn't want to come out as pro-marijuana, but her answer in the debate sounded nakedly political - it didn't seem like honest doubt about the issue. I have to think that it hurts her less to just be pro-legalization than to reinforce that she's saying whatever it takes to get elected.

I'm not sure we're ready for a presidential candidate, in the general election, who is openly for weed. It feels like when Obama wasn't openly in favor of gay marriage, you knew he was totally for it but the electorate wasn't there yet and he was afraid of killing his chances. We're gonna need weed in a few more states before we're ready, I think.
 
She just disappointed me most of the debate. It really sucks going from someone like Obama who is energizing and felt genuine to Clinton who just feels so politically motivated at every turn. Ugh

Its kinda funny reading this after hearing for years how Obama sold out liberals by not doing single payer, pushing harder on taxes or immigration, etc. No politician can spark a broad movement, its going to take thousands of people buying in and not just voting once every four years.
 
That was my problem with the answer, and one of the reasons I thought she came across as a weather vane. It's a really disappointing answer.

That along with her non explanation about the emails and why she apologized and now says its political, etc. and her saying she represented Wall Street but told them to cut it out...

She just disappointed me most of the debate. It really sucks going from someone like Obama who is energizing and felt genuine to Clinton who just feels so politically motivated at every turn. Ugh

Right, because Obama has come out about legalization already.

She has literally the exact same position as Obama on the issue: a politically-correct response of allowing the legal states to test it out before it can move on to the national level (while probably believing in legalization personally). Which is the best we can expect from ANY president given that you need a congressional vote to reschedule/legalize.
 

RDreamer

Member
Right, because Obama has come out about legalization already.

She has literally the exact same position as Obama on the issue: a politically-correct response of allowing the legal states to test it out before it can move on to the national level (while probably believing in legalization personally). Which is the best we can expect from ANY president given that you need a congressional vote to reschedule/legalize.

It's not just that issue, really. I realize why she needed to go that route, I just didn't particularly like the way she phrased it. That's most of what I'm disappointed in. Her answers, while politically expedient just came across... well... as literally just politically expedient.

Again, it's not just that question. There were a bunch, and it's possible that Anderson Cooper's harsh grilling of the debaters and really not letting them get off easily is also what did it. Maybe it's not terribly logical, either. I'm just telling you guys what I felt. I was really disappointed in her performance and it worried me when it comes to a general election.

I know Obama also fell into that trap a bit from time to time, but to me he always managed to counter balance that with passion either on other subjects or a very believable genuinely on the same subject. There's a reason I was for Obama and not Hillary last time, and years later it's just a bummer seeing that she's still about the same if not possibly a bit more transparent on these issues and the only reason she's going to take it all is that there isn't anyone who is better to take it from her.
 
It's not just that issue, really. I realize why she needed to go that route, I just didn't particularly like the way she phrased it. That's most of what I'm disappointed in. Her answers, while politically expedient just came across... well... as literally just politically expedient.

Again, it's not just that question. There were a bunch, and it's possible that Anderson Cooper's harsh grilling of the debaters and really not letting them get off easily is also what did it. Maybe it's not terribly logical, either. I'm just telling you guys what I felt. I was really disappointed in her performance and it worried me when it comes to a general election.

I know Obama also fell into that trap a bit from time to time, but to me he always managed to counter balance that with passion either on other subjects or a very believable genuinely on the same subject. There's a reason I was for Obama and not Hillary last time, and years later it's just a bummer seeing that she's still about the same if not possibly a bit more transparent on these issues and the only reason she's going to take it all is that there isn't anyone who is better to take it from her.

It feels to me often like people are looking for ways and reasons to criticize Clinton. We know what Hillary is, I don't understand how any of this is new to people.
 
It's not just that issue, really. I realize why she needed to go that route, I just didn't particularly like the way she phrased it. That's most of what I'm disappointed in. Her answers, while politically expedient just came across... well... as literally just politically expedient.

Again, it's not just that question. There were a bunch, and it's possible that Anderson Cooper's harsh grilling of the debaters and really not letting them get off easily is also what did it. Maybe it's not terribly logical, either. I'm just telling you guys what I felt. I was really disappointed in her performance and it worried me when it comes to a general election.

I know Obama also fell into that trap a bit from time to time, but to me he always managed to counter balance that with passion either on other subjects or a very believable genuinely on the same subject. There's a reason I was for Obama and not Hillary last time, and years later it's just a bummer seeing that she's still about the same if not possibly a bit more transparent on these issues and the only reason she's going to take it all is that there isn't anyone who is better to take it from her.

To me this just sounds like it boils down to charisma since Hillary and Obama are nearly identical on the issues (and have essentially the exact same donors). Obama lied about his real position on gay marriage out of sheer political expedience, and that was incredibly obvious too. So I don't see how you can knock Hillary on this and not him. Hillary represents, essentially, a third term of Obama, which is a prospect I'm totally fine with.
 

Zornack

Member
I get why Clinton wouldn't want to come out as pro-marijuana, but her answer in the debate sounded nakedly political - it didn't seem like honest doubt about the issue. I have to think that it hurts her less to just be pro-legalization than to reinforce that she's saying whatever it takes to get elected.

I imagine that she has more to lose by being pro-legalization. Will the young crowd really come out and vote for her in meaningful numbers if she supports legalization? Meanwhile I'd think that her current stance is more palatable to the center-right women that she has the capability of winning over.
 

RDreamer

Member
To me this just sounds like it boils down to charisma since Hillary and Obama are nearly identical on the issues (and have essentially the exact same donors). Obama lied about his real position on gay marriage out of sheer political expedience, and that was incredibly obvious too. So I don't see how you can knock Hillary on this and not him. Hillary represents, essentially, a third term of Obama, which is a prospect I'm totally fine with.

Well, I mean that's partially what debates are about. Charisma, wording of answers, and confidence. It isn't really about exact positions.

I just don't think Obama if asked something about how he would be a different president than say, Bill Clinton, would have responded "I'm black" like Hillary said she's a woman. The basics of some of her answers weren't terribly wrong, mind you. I'm not even really arguing against her positions. She just sucked at conveying them in a genuine way. There's a way to say "I'm a woman and I'll bring a woman's perspective while continuing the progress we're on" without saying it the way she did. There's a way to say she'll crack down on Wall Street without literally saying she represented Wall Street and then walked over there to tell they "hey cut it out."
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Well, I mean that's partially what debates are about. Charisma, wording of answers, and confidence. It isn't really about exact positions. I mean I don't think Obama if asked something about how he would be a different president than say, Bill Clinton, would have responded "I'm black" like Hillary said she's a woman.

The basics of some of her answers weren't terribly wrong, mind you. I'm not even really arguing against her positions. She just sucked at conveying them in a genuine way. There's a way to say "I'm a woman and I'll bring a woman's perspective while continuing the progress we're on" without saying it the way she did. There's a way to say she'll crack down on Wall Street without literally saying she represented Wall Street and then walked over there to tell they "hey cut it out."

It's only the first debate, I'm sure they're already reworking some of the answers that felt off. She's only going to get better.
 
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