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PoliGAF 2015 |OT2| Pls print

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benjipwns

Banned
I don't think many such people are left voting in GOP for such reasons, Bush changed that

Bush the Peace Maker
I'm talking about them being like each maybe 1%. So they add up to Ron Paul's roughly 10% and you've got 12-15%. (Rand peaked in the polls at 17%, his dad was close in 2012.)

I mean, where else are they going to go? Especially the paleoconservatives?
 

noshten

Member
I'm talking about them being like each maybe 1%. So they add up to Ron Paul's roughly 10% and you've got 12-15%. (Rand peaked in the polls at 17%, his dad was close in 2012.)

I mean, where else are they going to go? Especially the paleoconservatives?

I'm pretty sure it's Trump, take him and Carson out of the race Rand might have very well been polling at such dazzling heights(10%).
 

benjipwns

Banned
He was at 9-10% in the weeks before Trump entered. But then, every single candidate except Carson got jacked by Trump's explosion. He was fourth in late July, Trump 17% - Jeb! 15% - Walker 10% - Rand 6%.

Almost feels like centuries ago. (Rick Perry was at 3%. So that's 13% not even in the race anymore.)
 

benjipwns

Banned
Did the IBID/TPP poll get posted? Has one day post-debate.
Code:
Trump 28% - Carson 23% - Rubio - 11% - Cruz 6% - Jeb? 6% - Fiorina 3% - Paul 2% - Jindal 2% - Kasich 1% - Christie 1% - Santorum 1% - Huckabee 1% - Graham 0% - Pataki 0%

Clinton 48% - Sanders 33% - O'Malley 2%
I love how O'Malley can't even get up to 5% let alone 10% even with Biden finally out of the polls.
 

User1608

Banned
Steve Kornacki ‏@SteveKornacki 4m4 minutes ago
New NBC online poll, mostly conducted post-debate:
Trump 26
Carson 26
Cruz 10
Rubio 9
Bush 5
Fiorina 4
Huck/Kasich/Paul/Christie 2
Wow, Cruz did well. Biggest surprise for sure. As for Rubio, still sticking with him.:p
 
12195914_10153870583459238_5937573344172360488_n.jpg
 

noshten

Member

benjipwns

Banned
They're basically being tried for the crime of voting somewhere outside of Kansas' jurisdiction.
Since Meta isn't here, what they're actually being tried for is voting without being registered in Kansas.

The one set of idiots didn't know you couldn't register to vote in two places, where you live and where you used to the live.

And the other idiot didn't know you had to be registered in a state to vote there in three elections. (Apparently, neither did the State of Kansas.)

I say they all get the death penalty. Including Kris Kobach.

EDIT: From source story, http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article38915277.html
Arkansas Secretary of State Mark Martin released a statement saying that he respects “the actions of Secretary Kobach and his efforts at combating voter fraud.”

Martin noted that his office lacks the authority to prosecute, but he said he agrees with Kobach that voter fraud threatens to “compromise the integrity of the electoral system as well as voters’ confidence in that system.”
Wash said Kobach’s filing of just three cases proves that widespread voter fraud is not a problem in Kansas.

“These were the first out the door,” Kobach said. “We expect to file more cases in the next few months.”

This dude hates true democracy:
“Double voting is a serious crime,” Kobach said. “It undermines the principle of one man or one vote. Regardless of whether a person has property in two jurisdictions or not, the fact that they own property does not entitle them to twice as many votes as the rest of us.”
 

benjipwns

Banned
President Barack Obama placed a call to John Boehner on his penultimate day as Speaker, telling the Ohio Republican he was sorry to see him go.

“He said, ‘Boehner, man, I’m gonna miss you,' ” Boehner recalled in an interview broadcast Friday on Fox News.

“Yes you are Mr. President. Yes you are,” Boehner replied.
*sniff*
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
It was a bright sunny October afternoon at the East Potomac Golf Course. Having helped pass the final significant piece of budgetary legislation, the outgoing Speaker of the House, John Boehner, decided to take a much need, and long overdue day of leisure. The nominal leader of the lower house of congress was in a state of jubilation, that his caddie, Trevor, had not seen since the man was elected Speaker nearly five years ago.

Trevor: It's been a long while since I've seen you this joyful, sir.
Boehner: Indeed, Trevor. It's been a tumultuous few years, but come January, I will be free of these shackles forever more.

Unfortunately, the Speaker would soon come to find out that he would be gravely mistaken.

Trevor: Hmm, that's rather odd.
Boeher: What is?

Boeher then diverted his gaze upward. The skies, which were completely empty no more than a few minutes ago were suddenly filled with dark clouds. Boehner thought it was strange, but brushed off any concerns, attributing it to the natural variances in climate that have been observed since the beginning of time.

Another few minutes had passed and the clouds have congregated so quickly and aggressively that they all but blotted out the sun. The clouds then started swirling about, slowly at first, but then violently, eventually forming a disc shape. At this point, Boehner realized something was indeed wrong, and a shiver ran up his spine.


Boehner: No....no....he's not supposed to be here!
Trevor: Sir? Who?

The boy's questions went unanswered, as Boehner stared silently at the vortex, his eyes wide with fear, sweat dripping from every orifice on his face. Lightning started appearing in the center of the maelstrom, with greater frequency with each passing moment, until suddenly, a giant horizontal red light appears. The light starts to slowly grow, eventually forming a bright red circle.

Trevor: Mr Speaker! It's as if the heavens themselves have been ripped apart! What is that?!

While not averting his gaze, and keeping the same terrified expression on his face..

Boehner: A portal.
Trevor: What?!
Boehner: A gateway. To another world. A world in which...he resides.
Trevor: Who, sir?! Tell me!

Before Boehner could answer, a colossal figure appeared to be making its way through the portal. A monstrous creature, a serpentine dragon, whose scales were blacker than the blackest jade, whose size was larger than the largest leviathan, ominously glided toward the horrified Speaker and his equally horrified lackey. The beast landed with such force that tremors could be felt leagues away. As horrifying as this monster was, the Speaker knew it was merely a vessel, carrying something far worse.

Boehner: You must listen to me, young Trevor!
Trevor: SIr?
Boehner: When he approaches, bow your head and say not a word. Maybe then, we'll somehow survive this ordeal.

Perched on the dragon's backside, was a giant golden throne, adorned with gems of all kinds. Sitting inside it, was a shrouded figure, and standing next to it was another shrouded figure.The one in the throne stood up and with the other one following behind, walked along one of the dragon's giant claws which allowed them access to the ground.

The figures became more visible with each additional step, until they finally revealed themselves.

"Hello Mr. Speaker"

Boehner then immediately goes into a kneeling gesture, dropping on one knee, head bowed, then turned to Trevor, instructing him to do the same.

Boehner: Assalamwalaikum, Lord Obama.

The shrouded figures were none other than President Obama, and Vice President Biden. With a twisted smile, and a sinister intent, the 7th demon king, and leader of the free world finally speaks:

"I would have words."




To be continued....
 
So there was an interesting column about the fall of Jeb! (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-10-29/jeb-bush-has-slipped-but-so-has-republican-party) and its implications for the GOP, which led me to an interesting interview with two scholars from Brookings and the AEI. Not sure if it's been posted before.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articl...-and-norman-ornstein-on-republicans-gone-wild

The fact is that the "Young Guns" -- Eric Cantor, Kevin McCarthy, Paul Ryan, as we wrote early on in the book -- actively incited anger and raised expectations among populist Tea Party adherents ...

... The combination of empty threats and unfulfilled promise, amplified by tribal media and social media, has created both a broad public anger at Republican establishment leaders among more radical Tea Party voters, and a seething anger among the 40 to 50 most radical House members at their own leaders for their fecklessness.
...
Republicans have become more an insurgency than a major political party capable of governing. Their actions in Congress in recent weeks and on the presidential campaign trail underscore this reality.
...
There is pressure within the Democratic Party to emulate the Republicans in one respect -- to articulate a more aggressive and uncompromising policy agenda. Bernie Sanders has responded to that sentiment in the Democratic base and done better than anyone expected. But while Democrats in Congress have diverse views on some policies, they remain a governing party and accept compromise as an inevitable part of the democratic process.
....
We know a lot about how we got here. Some of the roots were set in the run-up to the 1994 elections. Newt Gingrich delegitimized the Congress, which had been run for 40 years by Democrats, to nationalize the elections and use popular and populist disgust to create a Republican majority.
...
That began conservative populist hatred of all government, and a gradually building anger at the establishment -- which in turn led to Newt's demise as speaker four years later. Add some more anger in the George W. Bush years ... a backlash against two wars that weren't paid for. Then toss in a bailout engineered by the elites in both parties that left ordinary Americans screwed while financiers got bonuses.
...
There is no clear path out of our current distemper. The solution, like the diagnosis, must focus on the obvious but seldom acknowledged asymmetry between the parties. The Republican Party must become a conservative governing party once again ... will likely require more election defeats, more honest reporting by the mainstream press and more recognition by the public that the problem is not "Washington" or "Congress" or "insiders" or politicians in general.

The burden is on the GOP because they are currently the major source of our political dysfunction. No happy talk about bipartisanship can obscure that reality. Unless other voices and movements arise within the Republican Party to change its character and course, our dysfunctional politics will continue.
I guess the long story short of it is that, the Republican Party as it stands is no longer realistically able or fit to govern.
 
Mia Love is in a fucking +16 R district (my district :mad: ) and it's looking like there's a decent chance she loses the 2016 election since the district just really doesn't like her. Political analysts have put the race in "Lean R" for 2016.

+16!
 

benjipwns

Banned
The needle hasn't moved much since Mia Love defeated Doug Owens in Utah's 4th Congressional District in 2014. On election night, Love beat Owens by five percentage points. A new UtahPolicy.com poll finds Love with an 11-point lead over Owens in Utah's 4th Congressional District.

The survey finds Love with 49% support while Owens sits at 38%. 12% say they are undecided.
Me and Utah Policy disagree on what "hasn't moved much" means.
 
We know a lot about how we got here. Some of the roots were set in the run-up to the 1994 elections. Newt Gingrich delegitimized the Congress, which had been run for 40 years by Democrats, to nationalize the elections and use popular and populist disgust to create a Republican majority. He recruited candidates to advance these themes, portraying Washington and government as a cesspool and Democrats as the enemy.

That began conservative populist hatred of all government, and a gradually building anger at the establishment -- which in turn led to Newt's demise as speaker four years later.

I guess the long story short of it is that, the Republican Party as it stands is no longer realistically able or fit to govern.

I disagree with the above assessment...somewhat. Newt Gingrich is not really the father of modern government hatred agenda. He amplified it, sure, but the anti-government strain has been part of America's DNA since...it was created. It always has been present in rural and western US. Just a few years ago before Newt's revolution, remember Reagan and his vilification of government? The Nine Most Terrifying Words? If anything, Reagan is the forebearer of the modern conservative movement where you just bash government and polarize your constituents.
 
Rep. Mia Love used a personal analogy to explain her no vote [to the budget deal].

"I don't know a parent who would go to a restaurant, order a big meal, and then hand the bill to their young children. Yet this is exactly what Congress is doing by raising the debt ceiling for two more years," Love said.

..... Alright then.

(Mia Love's staff is actually very pleasant and moderate, I'm a political lobbyist and have had good interactions with them. It's just Love herself).
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
I disagree with the above assessment...somewhat. Newt Gingrich is not really the father of modern government hatred agenda. He amplified it, sure, but the anti-government strain has been part of America's DNA since...it was created. It always has been present in rural and western US. Just a few years ago before Newt's revolution, remember Reagan and his vilification of government? The Nine Most Terrifying Words? If anything, Reagan is the forebearer of the modern conservative movement where you just bash government and polarize your constituents.

I actually was of the belief that Newt's the father of modern day conservatism. Yes, we had the Reagan revolution and all that, but as bad as Reagan was, the one thing you can't say about him was that he was unwilling to compromise. Tax hikes, spending hikes, amnesty, certain environmental regilation etc. We actually got things out of that guy.

Newt on the other hand was the one who started this wretched precedent of demanding everything from Democrats without giving an inch in return. We didn't get shit during the Clinton Administration once Newt came to power. Spending cuts, welfare reform, capital gain tax cuts, etc. Al that shit was one sided.
 

benjipwns

Banned
If anything, Reagan is the forebearer of the modern conservative movement
The ghosts of Russell Kirk, Barry Goldwater, Josiah Bailey, Robert Taft and Richard Russell would like to have a word with you outside.

William F. Buckley and Daniel Webster said they're just going to watch.
 
The ghosts of Russell Kirk, William F. Buckley, Josiah Bailey, Robert Taft and Richard Russell would like to have a word with you outside.

Barry Goldwater and Daniel Webster said they're just going to watch.
I don't think any of them created fear of the government as much as Reagan did. To give big flowery speeches against trusting government and being afraid of the government..I'd love to be proven wrong though.

Barry Goldwater is a specimen of the cold-war era. If anything, he (and maybe Joseph McCarthy) is the father of modern "paranoid Republicans" like Cruz. Hell, McCarthy and Goldwater were bros.
 
I actually was of the belief that Newt's the father of modern day conservatism. Yes, we had the Reagan revolution and all that, but as bad as Reagan was, the one thing you can't say about him was that he was unwilling to compromise. Tax hikes, spending hikes, amnesty, certain environmental regilation etc. We actually got things out of that guy.

Newt on the other hand was the one who started this wretched precedent of demanding everything from Democrats without giving an inch in return. We didn't get shit during the Clinton Administration once Newt came to power. Spending cuts, welfare reform, capital gain tax cuts, etc. Al that shit was one sided.
The idea of hating the government is not new, but I don't think it was as publicly accepted as it was in the 80s thanks to Reagan. Reagan showed that you can use the presidential platform to bash the federal government to gain votes. He absolutely was not a true believer. Dude partied way too much in California to be a true *anything*. But he showed that it can be done. Newt and company used the strategy to devastating effect, but they were true believers.
 

benjipwns

Banned
I don't think any of them created fear of the government as much as Reagan did. To give big flowery speeches against trusting government and being afraid of the government..I'd love to be proven wrong though.

Barry Goldwater is a specimen of the cold-war era. If anything, he (and maybe Joseph McCarthy) is the father of modern "paranoid Republicans" like Cruz. Hell, McCarthy and Goldwater were bros.
McCarthy and Goldwater weren't bros, that was Kennedy. The censure came well after he blew his wad at the Army hearings, those began less than a year into Goldwater's first term as a Senator.

Robert Taft said:
Socialism is a relative term, but if and when Government power threatens to direct all the lives of its people and absorb the greater part of the activities of the nation, it is fair to say that socialization reaches the goal of socialism itself. Basically the issue is one of liberty against socialism and we must decide it in 1952. This nation was conceived in liberty. Liberty has been the basis of its tremendous progress in the past. It is the cause of the great production and productivity per worker which have made us the greatest country in the history of the world and given our people the highest standards of living. There is no reason why that progress should not continue to heights undreamed of today, but only if we follow the same principles and the same kind of Government which we have enjoyed during the past 165 years. There is no assurance that progress can continue if we turn from American principles to adopt the European philosophy of today that only more Government operation and control can improve the condition of the people.

Here's a speech from some dude running for President:
The good Lord raised this mighty Republic to be a home for the brave and to flourish as the land of the free-not to stagnate in the swampland of collectivism, not to cringe before the bully of communism.

Now, my fellow Americans, the tide has been running against freedom. Our people have followed false prophets. We must, and we shall, return to proven ways-- not because they are old, but because they are true. We must, and we shall, set the tide running again in the cause of freedom. And this party, with its every action, every word, every breath, and every heartbeat, has but a single resolve, and that is freedom - freedom made orderly for this nation by our constitutional government; freedom under a government limited by laws of nature and of nature's God; freedom - balanced so that liberty lacking order will not become the slavery of the prison cell; balanced so that liberty lacking order will not become the license of the mob and of the jungle.

...

Failures proclaim lost leadership, obscure purpose, weakening wills, and the risk of inciting our sworn enemies to new aggressions and to new excesses. Because of this administration we are tonight a world divided - we are a Nation becalmed. We have lost the brisk pace of diversity and the genius of individual creativity. We are plodding at a pace set by centralized planning, red tape, rules without responsibility, and regimentation without recourse.

Rather than useful jobs in our country, people have been offered bureaucratic "make work," rather than moral leadership, they have been given bread and circuses, spectacles, and, yes, they have even been given scandals. Tonight there is violence in our streets, corruption in our highest offices, aimlessness among our youth, anxiety among our elders and there is a virtual despair among the many who look beyond material success for the inner meaning of their lives. Where examples of morality should be set, the opposite is seen. Small men, seeking great wealth or power, have too often and too long turned even the highest levels of public service into mere personal opportunity.

Now, certainly, simple honesty is not too much to demand of men in government. We find it in most. Republicans demand it from everyone. They demand it from everyone no matter how exalted or protected his position might be. The growing menace in our country tonight, to personal safety, to life, to limb and property, in homes, in churches, on the playgrounds, and places of business, particularly in our great cities, is the mounting concern, or should be, of every thoughtful citizen in the United States.

Security from domestic violence, no less than from foreign aggression, is the most elementary and fundamental purpose of any government, and a government that cannot fulfill that purpose is one that cannot long command the loyalty of its citizens. History shows us - demonstrates that nothing - nothing prepares the way for tyranny more than the failure of public officials to keep the streets from bullies and marauders.

Now, we Republicans see all this as more, much more, than the rest: of mere political differences or mere political mistakes. We see this as the result of a fundamentally and absolutely wrong view of man, his nature and his destiny. Those who seek to live your lives for you, to take your liberties in return for relieving you of yours, those who elevate the state and downgrade the citizen must see ultimately a world in which earthly power can be substituted for divine will, and this Nation was founded upon the rejection of that notion and upon the acceptance of God as the author of freedom.

Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed. Their mistaken course stems from false notions of equality, ladies and gentlemen. Equality, rightly understood, as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to the emancipation of creative differences. Wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, it leads first to conformity and then to despotism.

...

Yesterday it was Korea. Tonight it is Vietnam. Make no bones of this. Don't try to sweep this under the rug. We are at war in Vietnam. And yet the President, who is Commander-in-Chief of our forces, refuses to say - refuses to say, mind you, whether or not the objective over there is victory. And his Secretary of Defense continues to mislead and misinform the American people, and enough of it has gone by.

And I needn't remind you, but I will; it has been during Democratic years that a billion persons were cast into Communist captivity and their fate cynically sealed.

Today in our beloved country we have an administration which seems eager to deal with communism in every coin known - from gold to wheat, from consulates to confidence, and even human freedom itself.

The Republican cause demands that we brand communism as a principal disturber of peace in the world today. Indeed, we should brand it as the only significant disturber of the peace, and we must make clear that until its goals of conquest are absolutely renounced and its rejections with all nations tempered, communism and the governments it now controls are enemies of every man on earth who is or wants to be free.

...

Today, as then, but more urgently and more broadly than then, the task of preserving and enlarging freedom at home and safeguarding it from the forces of tyranny abroad is great enough to challenge all our resources and to require all our strength. Anyone who joins us in all sincerity, we welcome. Those who do not care for our cause, we don't expect to enter our ranks in any case. And let our Republicanism, so focused and so dedicated, not be made fuzzy and futile by unthinking and stupid labels.

I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
 

Jeels

Member
Aren't we starting to get pretty close to the primaries? Why are the joke/book deal candidates still getting the highest amount of votes?
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Aren't we starting to get pretty close to the primaries? Why are the joke/book deal candidates still getting the highest amount of votes?

Trump is this cycle's Romney and from the looks of it Carson is going to be playing the part of Rick Santorum, barring a collapse over those endorsements.
 

benjipwns

Banned
As I posted somewhere, Santorum was polling at 4% nationally the day before the Iowa Caucuses.

It's too early to find him.

Aren't we starting to get pretty close to the primaries? Why are the joke/book deal candidates still getting the highest amount of votes?
Iowa is February 1st. We have three more debates before then.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Aren't we starting to get pretty close to the primaries? Why are the joke/book deal candidates still getting the highest amount of votes?

The race is usually decided by the end of february, but whatever reason, most of the major movements tend to happen in January, so it's still a little hard to call this early.

Still, usually those big January moves come from the underdogs that start to become known as people start scrambling for alternatives. I've never really seen someone that's treated like the frontrunner make a huge move from bottom feeding to the lead, since usually being treated like the frontrunner should be enough to make you the frontrunner or very close to it.

I guess the theory is that the added interest that starts in January will cause people to learn to hate Trump and Carson instead of the usual trend of them using January to find the underdog.
 
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