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PoliGAF 2015 |OT2| Pls print

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Totally disagree. Bernie is getting the left wing part of the party plus all the anti-Hillary folks. All the anti-Hillary folks could easily be divided among legitimate candidates if they existed and Bernie's support would dissipate.

Biden, who is probably more right wing than Hillary, would be a clear second if he ever jumped in the race and started actually campaigning. That blows up your theory.

PS. Aside from their insufferable insistence on pretending that he actually has support and could win a general election, the most annoying thing about Bernie and his supporters is how pie-in-the-sky and plain naive they are. Bernie is not the Democrat's Trump, he is their Ron Paul. And he will be about as successful.

Trump and Ron Paul are quite similar. Their stronger appeal is just to different segments of the electorate. Ron Paul to libertarians. Trump to racists and xenophobes. Turns out that one segment is larger than the other. Both most likely share the anti-establishment segment.

Plus we already had the data back when Biden was talked about that did show that Biden pulled far more from Hills than from Bern, which is why she shot up even more once his name was properly thrown out of the ring. What you seem to have failed to notice from that period is that even with Biden in the ring, Bern still pulled a steady 20%. That, my friend, is not vanishing. It's still a loss, evidently.

Your hostility, however, is as unwelcome as it is unwarranted. If you were to drop it, you would be able to see that i've very often remarked that nothing short of a miracle would secure the nom for Bern. Do not emulate the behaviour of those that you dislike, mate.
 
In what universe would ANYONE switch from Obama to McCain because he ended up being more moderate than they assumed at the time? That makes no sense.

Also you make it seem like liberals/dems turned on Obama. Again, what universe is this? His approval ratings amongst Democrats is sky-high.

I'm not sure that even John McCain, the respected, moderate Republican, would have championed a trade deal that doesn't completely outlaw the import of goods produced by modern day slave (or forced, what ever you want to call it) labor, such as from Malaysia.

If Democrats were fully aware of this shabby state of affairs, all to maximise corporate profits, at the expense of the health and wellbeing of foreign workers, I'm sure those approval ratings would be nothing like as good.
 

Cheebo

Banned
Daniel B·;186923237 said:
I'm not sure that even John McCain, the respected, moderate Republican, would have championed a trade deal that doesn't completely outlaw the import of goods produced by modern day slave (or forced, what ever you want to call it) labor, such as from Malaysia.
Wow. I didn't think you could be serious but you went ahead and doubled down. Well then...


Arizona Senator John McCain (R) defended his support for the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), by arguing that cheap goods and services are more important than protecting American workers or businesses. During the interview, McCain took a hard line free trade over fair trade stance. He defended past trade deals like NAFTA saying only “hardcore union spokespersons” are still against that deal.
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/06/16/john-mccain-american-workers-protected-cheap-goods.html

In this week’s Republican video address, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ)41%
touted the importance of passing the so-called Trans-Pacific Partnership and attack his Democratic colleagues for not supporting the legislation, which has the backing of Republicans and President Barack Obama.
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015...for-not-supporting-tpp-in-weekly-gop-address/

I welcome news that the United States and 11 other nations have concluded negotiations over the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), the largest regional trade agreement in history. The TPP offers a historic opportunity to reduce trade barriers, open new markets, promote made-in-America exports, and keep American companies competitive in one of the most economically vibrant and fastest-growing regions in the world.
http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=d3bdc0af-bac2-482a-af74-5460bce3aaea

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.): "By ending more than 18,000 import tariffs and removing additional trade barriers, the TPP will strengthen the American workforce and make our economy more competitive and prosperous."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...ngress-approve-the-trans-pacific-partnership/
 

Cheebo

Banned
What's the deal with Daniel B? How can you be so delusional about the ideological leanings of our country?

He attacks Obama and defends McCain and claims the public would have voted McCain over Obama if they knew Obama would support more moderate policies and not be as liberal as they expected......and his #1 example is a policy McCain has long championed?!

I mean...what. Either he is a troll (and I am starting to REALLY think this is most likely the case) or is beyond delusional and very misinformed. The McCain over Obama due to TPP thing has got to be his jump the shark moment here.
 
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You only do two days. The day you get banned, and the day you get unbanned.

1. I'm convinced Hillary is running a far better campaign than I gave her credit for. My only fear is that Obama will spoil it. I think he's operating in a rather tone deaf manner and hurting democrats, and think it's time for Hillary to start moving away from him. Not blatantly in an Al Gore way, but in some form or fashion.

Sanders...he doesn't get it. He's very linear/one note in debates, and simply not impressive. Worse yet he seems unable to attack Hillary. While I like her debate performances I thought that 911 line was borderline disqualifying...yet Sanders didn't pounce. Can you imagine 2007 Obama letting that slide? Sanders is simply not built for what he has to do, and I'm not convinced he's surrounded by people who are willing to turn the knife. Consider the Chicago people who built Obama, versus whatever ivy league idiots are running Sanders' campaign.

2. If the US gets hit by some type of small scale Paris-type attack, Obama's presidency will be finished. I've made it clear I'm not concerned about ISIS and largely support an isolationist view regarding them, refugees, etc. But clearly most people disagree with me on ISIS. I think a firm leader could make the case against war, but Obama isn't that person.

3. Cruz or Rubio will be the nominee folks. Cruz has the grassroots campaign support/infrastructure required to win states like Iowa and SC, whereas Rubio will be the establishment's last hope. Rubio doesn't have the money or campaign vision to win this outright. He's not spending money on the right things. Once Bush falls I'd imagine establishment folks will move to Rubio and convince him that yes, you do need campaign offices and a GOTV machine.

Still don't believe in Trump...but I'm not basing that on facts or reality. It's moreso a refusal to believe what I'm seeing. He's...smart, campaign wise, and it's blowing me away. He's building a campaign in primary states and hiring the right people. But can he last until January? The holidays work in his favor given that they basically serve as a bye week. Once that bye is over, things resume as they were previously ie him leading. But surely something has to happen to topple him...

4. Side note: If you're into giving oral satisfaction to your girlfriend, buy her some cranberry juice. Trust me.
 
Trump and Ron Paul are quite similar. Their stronger appeal is just to different segments of the electorate. Ron Paul to libertarians. Trump to racists and xenophobes. Turns out that one segment is larger than the other. Both most likely share the anti-establishment segment.

Plus we already had the data back when Biden was talked about that did show that Biden pulled far more from Hills than from Bern, which is why she shot up even more once his name was properly thrown out of the ring. What you seem to have failed to notice from that period is that even with Biden in the ring, Bern still pulled a steady 20%. That, my friend, is not vanishing. It's still a loss, evidently.

Your hostility, however, is as unwelcome as it is unwarranted. If you were to drop it, you would be able to see that i've very often remarked that nothing short of a miracle would secure the nom for Bern. Do not emulate the behaviour of those that you dislike, mate.

My posts were directed at Daniel B, not you. Although the holier-than-thou attitude is another annoying feature of Bernie supporters.
 

Tarkus

Member
I agree with just about everything you said. I am concerned about ISIS though. I'd hate to say it, but America will probably be attacked again soon. It's highly likely. I'm a bit afraid to get on a plane to be quite honest. It won't stop me, but it's in the back of my mind.

If your girl (or guy) is into reciprocating, then eat lots of pineapple...trust me.
 
My girlfriend doesn't care for my pussy eating :(, need to get better at it but no opportunity to practice.

Also, Trump denies mocking the disability of the NYT writer, but:

CUx6McwWsAAHHmz.jpg
 

Tarkus

Member
My girlfriend doesn't care for my pussy eating :(, need to get better at it but no opportunity to practice.

Also, Trump denies mocking the disability of the NYT writer, but:

CUx6McwWsAAHHmz.jpg
"Now, the poor guy — you've got to see this guy, ‘Ah, I don't know what I said! I don't remember!' "
Denies
Mmm hmm
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
There's only one way to beat Donald Trump: show his followers he's a weak-ass, immigrant-loving, flip-flopping, establishment liberal pussy. It's the only way.
 
You know who Trump reminds me of...

Early 2000s Eminem

Ehh, it's a difficult comparison to make on the surface because Eminem is good racially, but is one of the most homophobic people in America (which does not describe Trump at all). Both are willing to insult essentially everyone ("put down Christopher Reeves' legs!") and will punch down as much as possible and both are paradoxically extremely sensitive to criticism. Both are also good at what they do and successful. The most difficult point of comparison is the degree to which Mathers was playing a character in Slim Shady and how much Trump is playing a character right now.

I don't think Eminem would be a fascist tho.

edit: From the same song, "I don't give a fuck if that bitch was own mother, I'd still fuck her with no rubber" is a decent comparison with Trump thinking his daughter is hot as fuck with regards to the rejection of the taboo of anything remotely incestuous.
 

Cerium

Member
Ehh, it's a difficult comparison to make on the surface because Eminem is good racially, but is one of the most homophobic people in America (which does not describe Trump at all).

I wouldn't say that. He's close friends with Elton John. When Elton got married Eminem sent them a pair of gold, diamond encrusted cock rings. Elton talks about it often.
 

Farmboy

Member
Welcome back, PD.

This struck me as equal parts funny and sad: GOP opposes Obama on Turkey Pardons (PPP)

The examples of the GOP's reflexive opposition to President Obama's agenda are many but this may be the best one yet: by a 27 point margin Republicans say they disapprove of the President's executive order last year pardoning two Thanksgiving turkeys (Macaroni and Cheese) instead of the customary one. Only 11% of Republicans support the President's executive order last year to 38% who are opposed- that's a pretty clear sign that if you put Obama's name on something GOP voters are going to oppose it pretty much no matter what. Overall there's 35/22 support for the pardon of Macaroni and Cheese thanks to 59/11 support from Democrats and 28/21 from independents.

Smh.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
Democrats: Clinton reasserts commanding advantage over Sanders
Hillary Clinton has stymied Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders’ summer surge, according to Democratic insiders in the same four early states surveyed by POLITICO. Insiders said overwhelmingly in all four states that Clinton would win if the caucuses or primaries were held today.

While members of The POLITICO Caucus have always leaned more than the public opinion polls toward Clinton, Sanders had closed the gap – especially in New Hampshire – over the summer. In late June and early July, roughly a quarter of New Hampshire said Sanders would win the first-in-the-nation primary there if it were held that day.
But now only a handful of insiders say Sanders would win today in their states. “Hillary's organization in Nevada is large and very competent in its work preparing for our caucus,” said one Democrat. “Bernie might actually be more popular among active Democrats.”
A small fraction of insiders said the fervor of Sanders’ supporters will carry the day. “Sanders has a lot of working class support,” said an Iowa Democrat. “The proof of his support, though, will be evident at the precinct caucuses.”
Back in New Hampshire, where Sanders had posted his strongest leads in the polls, Democratic insiders are convinced Clinton has halted Sanders’ ascent.
“Sanders has lost momentum,” said one Democratic insider. “The race has become about more than income inequality, and his more limited focus/message – in contrast to Clinton's breadth and depth – has become a weakness. Also, as voters get more engaged and serious, the electability factor is also starting to become more important, helping Clinton [and] hurting Sanders.”
Another Democrat in New Hampshire was even more blunt, writing simply: “It is so over.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/...-trump-iowa-2016-polling-216227#ixzz3shL5rgRM
 

Makai

Member
Trump fan fiction

Donald Trump woke up from his deep slumber. He had a terrible dream. A dream where everyone had found out his secret. A dream that Martin Luther King couldn't even comprehend. A bad dream. A terrible one, in fact. A dream.

He looked around his room. Nothing was gone nor moved. Everything was the same as before; walls and floors coated in gold and countless precious gems. Furniture was made completely out of Egyptian cotton, even the mirrors. Donald grinned from ear to ear thinking about the countless servants who come to his room, polishing the pure Egyptian cotton so it would reflect as if they were a looking glass. "Cotton can not become reflective, no matter how much you polish it," the scientists said. Donald knew better than them. He could do anything, unlike those pesky scientists. Cotton could not stand in his way. Scientists could not stand in his way. Not even Egyptian cotton. Not even Egyptian scientists.
 
Still don't believe in Trump...but I'm not basing that on facts or reality. It's moreso a refusal to believe what I'm seeing. He's...smart, campaign wise, and it's blowing me away. He's building a campaign in primary states and hiring the right people. But can he last until January? The holidays work in his favor given that they basically serve as a bye week. Once that bye is over, things resume as they were previously ie him leading. But surely something has to happen to topple him...

Trump is the tallest man in a room of midgets. Maybe he wins the nomination, but he doesn't beat Hillary.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
It doesn't surprise me at all that Bernie fans would have Trump as their second choice.

Do we really want to play the "make Crab find tonnes of quotes from jilted Clintonians in '08 where they promised to vote McCain" game?
 
It doesn't surprise me at all that Bernie fans would have Trump as their second choice.
Seeing people go "If I can't have Bernie than I'll take Trump because he's funny LOLOLOL" is the cosmic reminder that this is still a video game forum where a good chunk of people revolve their lives around consumerist bullshit like when the next Atlus game is coming out or how well the Xbox One sold or whatever.
 
Chomsky is not a social scientist by education, nor is it is primary professional trade. You implied that it is warranted to dismiss other people's opinion on a topic based on their educational background ("neuro-scientist", "biologist"). Which is a silly thing to say, especially because somebody like Chomsky is a prime example of somebody who does not have a background in the social sciences and still has written an immense amount of respectable stuff on that topic. I am not defending the individuals in question. I am just pointing out that your general statement was silly and particularly ironic in a context that involves Chomsky.
We can argue back and forth about their qualifications. Chomsky has contributed tremendously to social sciences, and he has a better platform to talk about things that matter to society than Harris or Ben fucking Carson. I will definitely dismiss a neocon loon neuroscientist's incoherent ramblings about society in favor of Chomsky's ideas. In a heartbeat. I can't believe we're even having the discussion (but I understand why because of the recent spat between Harris and Chomsky)
This is cynical nonsense. First, let's acknowledge that Western countries have an appreciation for certain values in their constitutions and their laws that not every other country in the world has. Like freedom of self expression, freedom of speech, and freedom of religion. No matter how many bombs we drop on other people and no matter how much collateral damage we cause in the process, it does not change the fact that our societies are based on these values.

Let's further realize that the acceptance of these values is necessary—and necessary in a good way—to live peacefully in our societies. They are obviously the fundament on which diversity is built. Believe it or not, this acceptance is not a given fact for many people coming from certain Muslim-majority countries. On the contrary, there are many people living in these countries that suffer from this fact as a result, and many of them have to fear for their societal and physical well-beeing if they dare to fight to change this situation. Multiculturalism—as opposed to diversity and taken in its most consequent form—is the proposition that all cultures should be preserved and can live with each other. This is evidently wrong. At the very least, people have to accept the values I mentioned, even if they are not compatible with their culture. Because somebody who adheres to a cultural background that denies freedom of expression, speech, and religion is not capable of living in a diverse culture. Yet we have people who actually support the idea that sub-cultures in a multicultural society should be allowed to apply their own laws in their own sub-culture, including laws that go against these values. Furthermore, lack of integration and exchange has led to certain isolated sub-cultures in many parts of Europe, which is why some years ago multiculturalism has been declared a failure by most European leaders, including Merkel, who (rightfully and admirably) is a staunch defender of migration and support for refugees.
Right, it just makes us a hypocritical bunch, is all. We overthrow their democratically elected governments like that of Mossadegh and install corrupt bastards like the Shah, while propping up autocratic regimes like that of Saddam and Qaddhafi when it suits us, the same regimes that snuffed out any resemblance of a civil institution. Lets not forget we raped and pillaged that area of the world for the past 100 years in our adventures, divvying it up and sharing it around between our white colonial masters like a cheap busted whore. Want to talk about how wonderful our values are? The audacity. We have no right to look down upon a country that we ruined in the middle east with our own hands and blame their people for not having advanced in social and human rights as we have. No right at all. Multiculturalism is a failure of Europe. Not because they did not integrate properly, but because of the lack of opportunities and hardships immigrants face there. It's not uncommon to find the poorest populations also the migrant populations. Why is that? In US we still have chinatown, koreatown, indiatown, etc. where a big chunk of population lives in it's own ethnic bubble, rich and poor. Dearborn Michigan is majority Arab Muslim. Minneapolis has the highest percentage of Somali immigrants. Burqas, hijab, mosques everywhere. Did they go through a "mandatory education" about western liberal values in order to live peacefully? Are they a product of "fair integration"?

(The woman didn't blow itself up, by the way, it was discovered that another guy in her proximity blew himself up.)

Of course. When confronted with liberal values that are inconsistent with Jihadism your either abandon Jihadism or those values. Obviously, those terrorists found meaning in their lives by subscribing to Jihadism and doubled down on it. Being aware of liberal values does not mean that you are immune to Jihadism.

But how many potential Jihadists actually have been turned around by having been confronted with these values? You commit an obvious fallacy of selection bias by not realizing that this number is hidden from us. Because these people who have been made immune to Jihadism obviously do not blow themselves up.

There are plenty of examples for Muslims who went the complete other way and are now working to promote secular and liberal values in the Muslim world. Read, for instance, Maajid Nawaz' autobiography "Radical".
This is funny...do you believe people turned away from carrying out a terrorist attack because they found out how amazing criticizing religion is? or going to a club? apple pie? Maajid Nawaz is Sam Harris' third asshole. I'm surprised his nose is not permanently brown from all the excavation he keeps doing inside Harris' butthole. Keep in mind, this dude got thrown out of a strip club for groping women while drunk (during Ramadan, no less), yet claims he speaks for women's rights. Same guy that supports increased Muslim surveillance. He's a sellout that works for the British government and will say whatever the hell his masters tell him to say. Is this what you want Muslims to emulate? I highly doubt your average Muslim immigrant likes this Nawaz guy. Sorry, Maajid Nawaz and Harris can fuck the right off. Yasir Qadhi is also an extreme salafist that trained in Medina University but has completely reversed his thinking. And, he is an extremely knowledgeble scholar with legit credentials in Islam and theology. I'd listen to what he has to say about extremism rather than imbeciles like Nawaz or Harris.
Going back to the issue of immigration and refugees. Let's acknowledge that not all of them have been confronted with secular liberal values. As I said, this is, as far as I know, less of an issue with Syria, but I made a general point about immigration from conservative Muslim-majority countries. Who do you think is more likely to become a Jihadist? Somebody who has grown up in an environment that taught the absolute authority of the Qur'an in all areas of life, or somebody who has grown up in an environment that promoted religious diversity, free speech and the critical thinking that comes with it, and the freedom to express yourself individually, as opposed to conforming to a religious norm?

Are you seriously telling me that this will not play a huge role? If yes, then you are probably just not familiar with people who grew up in oppressive religious environments.

My best friend's family fled in 1979 from Iran and migrated to Germany. He and all members of his family have since become valuable members of German society and contributed well above average. You would have to incredibly blind and confused to not see that migrants like them have not been thoroughly infused with Western values by moving into our societies.
All the statistics point to someone who grew up in religious diversity, free speech and critical thinking (ie, the west). Keep in mind we're talking about lone wolf attackers in western societies, like the shoe bomber or the Paris attackers. This might sound dumb but you should check out the movie Four Lions. It really is an incisive commentary on who actually these terrorists really are. Are they religious zealots, or are they people with identity crisis? Good on your friend. There are millions of people like him. I'm sure he and his family didn't have to go through mandatory education about how amazing apple pie is, I assume.
Sure. I support the activism of liberal Muslims who promote a version of Islam that is compatible with a secular societies. I am personally not really convinced by their arguments for that compatibility. But that doesn't change that this endeavor is crucial and unavoidable.

But then let's acknowledge that this endeavor also based on the very liberal values that you have dismissed so naively. The "deeper knowledge of Islam" is likely in fact the deeper knowledge of an interpretation of Islam seen through the lens of a-priori accepted liberal values. Because I am sure that Wahhabists have a pretty deep knowledge of Islamic doctrine too...
Wahhabism is a relatively recent phenomenon that only reached it's widescale throughput due to petro-dollars at work. Your greatest folly is in thinking there are only two views: Wahhabist or that of Majid Nawaz'. There has been 1400 years of legit Islamic scholarship that manifested itself from liberal to conservative Islam while not being antithetical to values we hold important.
 

User 406

Banned
Man the accelerationists in the OT are scary :(

I take comfort in the knowledge that if the chaos they desire ever does come to pass, they'll have an amazingly beautiful look of stupid befuddlement on their faces when they realize that they won't just be comfortable spectators for their fantasy no-downsides revolution, and that they're about to be that human face under that boot stomping forever.

They're about as significant as zombie preppers or sovereign citizens. Just ignore them.
 
Reminder that Rubio wants raped women to have their rapist's child in an America where this is true:

But in 31 states, rapists do enjoy the rights of a father.



Each year, there are approximately 32,000 pregnancies resulting from rape, according to a 1996 study by the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/01/us/rapist-child-custody/

The "moderate" Republican (who also wants to cut the taxes on the rich dramatically, doesn't think climate change is real, wants to turn the Middle East into a glass parking lot, wants more surveillance of Muslims, etc)


On the accelerationists, they do know that Dubya and Nixon were presidents and there were almost no accelerationist benefits right? Unless Trump is fully Hitler, there won't be any either and Trump will have killed millions before any good comes of it.
 

User 406

Banned
On the accelerationists, they do know that Dubya and Nixon were presidents and there were almost no accelerationist benefits right? Unless Trump is fully Hitler, there won't be any either and Trump will have killed millions before any good comes of it.

That's just because things just haven't gotten bad enough!

9ef98ed1f9633ab67c36fb98793eaf8d187e4f83a3fb5c4c027c46d7d3c88e63.jpg
 

Makai

Member
Listening to David Cross from over 10 year ago. Predicted Iraq War would last 8-10 more years from then. Then said "Syria's next, motherfuckers."
 

Makai

Member
Man the accelerationists in the OT are scary :(
What, are you scared by the guy who thinks David Koch paid off Ginsburg?

That reminds me of a common argument from some Hillary fans that annoys me - we must nominate the most electable candidate because the Supreme Court is paramount and a liberal court will move the progressive cause forward. Overturning Citizens United is mentioned virtually every time. But wait a minute, Citizens United was unanimous. >:p
 

Cerium

Member
What, are you scared by the guy who thinks David Koch paid off Ginsburg?

That reminds me of a common argument from some Hillary fans that annoys me - we must nominate the most electable candidate because the Supreme Court is paramount and a liberal court will move the progressive cause forward. Overturning Citizens United is mentioned virtually every time. But wait a minute, Citizens United was unanimous. >:p

...It was 5-4.

Planet Bernie must be a magical place.
 
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