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PoliGAF 2016 |OT10| Jill Stein Inflatable Love Doll

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Boke1879

Member
On the plus side, the media is going at Trump's throat right now from all sides.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/201...-pastor-trump-reboot-again-goes-rails-n648881



That's a strong lede.

I don't expect any of this to stick. Not faulting the media. But everyone. The GOP has remained silent on all things Trump. And when they don't demonize this type of shit they enable it. Trump is held to a different standard.

If anyone. Romney, McCain said that. They'd get shat in from all angles. But for Trump? It's just another day.
 
I like how no one has any idea who Gary Johnson is and he has received zero seconds of media coverage other than "I have no idea what Syria is" and he's still at 10%.

It's the most legendary campaign possible. He's getting Communists to vote for him even though he hates social security and income taxes and even though no one has ever heard him speak.

It is strange how people think of him. He's literally whatever you want him to be! I've heard a couple people describe him as "like Bernie Sanders." Like, wut?
 

Maxim726X

Member
Not just that Hillary was corrupt, but that the entire Democrat party, top to bottom, was corrupt and could not be trusted. That was going way out of line.

Bernie went scorched earth because it's not his party. Plain and simple, he doesn't give a shit. This was his chance to shoot for the stars at all costs.

But I ask again- Aren't there a lot of polls suggesting that most Bernie voters have moved over to Clinton?
 
I got annoyed at Sanders as the primary went on too but I think it's silly that as soon as we face adversity in the GE we immediately turn back to blaming him for the problems of now.

Clinton's campaign fucked up the past couple weeks and needs to stop fucking up and then ideally we'll get some returns in the polls. If not, we can at least hope that having a functioning ground game will be a firewall to help us. I don't think turning around and trying to eat our own is going to fix any problems.

Edit: Also that Kander ad was pretty cool, my newfound love of Truman and learning more about my grandfather in Missouri has given me an odd attachment to that state and I really hope he can win. I think I might go donate some more to him once I get my debit card back.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
I like how no one has any idea who Gary Johnson is and he has received zero seconds of media coverage other than "I have no idea what Syria is" and he's still at 10%.

It's the most legendary campaign possible. He's getting Communists to vote for him even though he hates social security and income taxes and even though no one has ever heard him speak.

What commies are going for Johnson?

I think he's just riding off of the moderate conservative vote -- young and/or educated white people who are scared of Trump but think Hillary is a criminal or whatever.
 

Debirudog

Member
Eh, this Sanders bickering is a thing of the past. I feel like the media did more damage with the foundation scandal and her getting struck by pnuemonia. I don't think the Goldman sach speeches particularly hurt her.

BOBers were never for democrats. They're delusional to the point that they think, "HE CAN STILL GET BACK INTO THE RACE."
 
I said I wasn't coming on PoliGAF until after the debates but

1) I just can't quit you

2) I come with good news

@zackroth
Breaking: VA Sup Court approves Gov's plan to restore felon voting rights individually after his blanket order was declared unconstitutional
 

Debirudog

Member
I got annoyed at Sanders as the primary went on too but I think it's silly that as soon as we face adversity in the GE we immediately turn back to blaming him for the problems of now.

Clinton's campaign fucked up the past couple weeks and needs to stop fucking up and then ideally we'll get some returns in the polls. If not, we can at least hope that having a functioning ground game will be a firewall to help us. I don't think turning around and trying to eat our own is going to fix any problems.

.
 

faisal233

Member
I got annoyed at Sanders as the primary went on too but I think it's silly that as soon as we face adversity in the GE we immediately turn back to blaming him for the problems of now.

Clinton's campaign fucked up the past couple weeks and needs to stop fucking up and then ideally we'll get some returns in the polls. If not, we can at least hope that having a functioning ground game will be a firewall to help us. I don't think turning around and trying to eat our own is going to fix any problems.

No shit, everytime Clinton fucks up, it's Bernie's fault. 1 month ago, Clinton had double-digit lead, was that also Bernie's fault?
 
But Obama never resorted to attacking her in this way. Sure, he led for most the primary and didn't really need to, but that wasn't always the case.

From what I remember, Obama hit Hillary on judgement, not representing needed change, and occasionally her likability. Sanders entered the race slandering Hillary as fundamentally corrupt. O'Malley joined in as he got desperate for attention, but never as full-throated as Sanders.

Irrelevant at the present time, tho. Like, absolutely nothing positive can come from dredging that up again. Which is his point.
 
What commies are going for Johnson?

I think he's just riding off of the moderate conservative vote -- young and/or educated white people who are scared of Trump but think Hillary is a criminal or whatever.
I don't know specifically about Johnson but I'm pretty sure he's peeling off a lot of people who would be Clinton voters but conceptually like voting third party. In the state legislature race I'm working with, there's a far-right independent running that the campaign initially ignored because they assumed it would only hurt the Republican, but it's become clear that he's peeling votes away from our candidate because people only see that he's independent and want to vote for that instead.
 
What commies are going for Johnson?

I think he's just riding off of the moderate conservative vote -- young and/or educated white people who are scared of Trump but think Hillary is a criminal or whatever.

IIRC, Gary Johnson's supporters identify more as Democrats than Republicans and most of the Democrat leaners not voting for Hillary are BoBers.

I'm assuming that out of some of the people that voted for Bernie but refuse to vote for Hillary are socialists, but maybe that's incorrect.
 

noshten

Member
But Obama never resorted to attacking her in this way. Sure, he led for most the primary and didn't really need to, but that wasn't always the case.

From what I remember, Obama hit Hillary on judgement, not representing needed change, and occasionally her likability. Sanders entered the race slandering Hillary as fundamentally corrupt. O'Malley joined in as he got desperate for attention, but never as full-throated as Sanders.


Step 1: "Lobbyists donate to politicians."

Step 2: "Politicians defend lobbyists."

Step 3: "Americans pay the price."

As part of the first step, the ad states:

"Senator Hillary Clinton has taken over $800,000 from lobbyists, more money than any other candidate — Republican or Democrat:

* Over $130,000 from energy lobbyists

* Over $130,000 from drug company lobbyists

* Over $125,000 from health care and insurance lobbyists."

That's a web ad from Obama's campaign in 2008.
 

thefro

Member
Plouffe says Hillary has more to gain from third parties and from getting Dems out to vote than Trump does that this point. She will have more late-breakers her way.

Debate is a big thing.

VA/CO locks, Trump can't get any closer than 2 points in PA. Talking positive about Florida and New Hampshire.

This is high water mark of Trump's campaign.

Trump is most deeply-flawed candidate in Presidential history.

Trump voters he's gained were likely to vote for him and that would have never voted for Clinton.

Clinton will win between 4-6 points nationally.
 

HylianTom

Banned
Sabato's map is out:
http://www.centerforpolitics.org/cr...re-are-we-in-this-strange-race-for-president/

2016_09_15_pres.png
I disagree with a few states, but still.. It should soothe a bit.
 

Ryuuroden

Member
To be fair, his support should plummet once the debates take place, and odds are he isn't going to get the support he's getting in polls right now once election day rolls around.



Are you reading something I'm not? I don't see that argument being made at all.

I just feel like I am always seeing people complain about the consequences of nominating Hillary Clinton and while it may not be everyone there is a lot of hypocrisy in how people treat her. She makes the same mistake or acts in the same way a man might and gets treated completely different and usually in a negative way. To me that just hardens the idea that while many people don't realize it, they unconsciously treat her different. I think any woman who gets nominated who can stand toe to toe with a man will be treated this way. It's not a "Hillary" problem, its an everyone else problem. People unconsciously treat black people different even when they think they are not racist as well.

I think people just need to get beyond what she is or isnt doing and compare what she does to men in high positions they admire or would vote for and see its a them problem not a Hillary problem.

She is super qualified and the majority of the shit that is so called corrupt that's put on her is cooked up bullshit so I can't help but believe people are just holding her to a different unfair standard based on the fact shes a woman and they won't realize that's why or they just won't admit it.
 

royalan

Member
I got annoyed at Sanders as the primary went on too but I think it's silly that as soon as we face adversity in the GE we immediately turn back to blaming him for the problems of now.

Clinton's campaign fucked up the past couple weeks and needs to stop fucking up and then ideally we'll get some returns in the polls. If not, we can at least hope that having a functioning ground game will be a firewall to help us. I don't think turning around and trying to eat our own is going to fix any problems.

Edit: Also that Kander ad was pretty cool, my newfound love of Truman and learning more about my grandfather in Missouri has given me an odd attachment to that state and I really hope he can win. I think I might go donate some more to him once I get my debit card back.

I agree with this, largely only commenting on Bernie because he was brought up... Ugh. Let me wash my mouth out with soap.

We can talk about Hillary's various fuck-ups, but right now I think the biggest one was expecting the media to act responsibly in their coverage. That didn't happen in the primaries and nothing indicated it would happen in the general. (It's my biggest fear going into the debates)

If I were on Team Clinton, I'd set up a team whose primary responsibility was to come up with ways to steal the news cycle from Trump every day. Being a dumpster fire hurts him, but it hurts her too, as we're seeing.
 
I'm also particularly fascinated into finding out why people like Gary Johnson and Stein (who are terrible) are holding up. Donald and Hillary seem like they would be way better than both third party candidates because they have some good ideas and most of the other garbage will be blocked by Congress and the courts.

We can see a lot of the good that can be associated with that during the Obama administration. I mean look at how Pres. Obama and his surrogates whined and threw tantrums about the judicial and congressional branches opposing his agenda and all the things he was prevented from doing. Nevertheless, we see all of this private sector job growth, gains across the income distribution, fall in crime, no need for walls or mass deportations, etc. I'm reading a lot of press articles across the spectrum that give off the impression that we are living in the greatest time ever and doing better than our international peers. So why did Obama complain so much at the time about Republican obstruction and why are people on both sides running on rhetoric that there's still more work to do? We can't be perfect. I'm going to miss Obama and his Republican Dream Team.
 

thebloo

Member
Let's not turn the clock. Primaries are over and she's not largely affected by "speeches". It's been a rough week, but she's still leading and Trump has not changed the fundamentals of the race at all.

I'm going to miss Obama and his Republican Dream Team

Sigh
 

Slizeezyc

Member
I'm also particularly fascinated into finding out why people like Gary Johnson and Stein (who are terrible) are holding up. Donald and Hillary seem like they would be way better than both third party candidates because they have some good ideas and most of the other garbage will be blocked by Congress and the courts.

We can see a lot of the good that can be associated with that during the Obama administration. I mean look at how Pres. Obama and his surrogates whined and threw tantrums about the judicial and congressional branches opposing his agenda and all the things he was prevented from doing. Nevertheless, we see all of this private sector job growth, gains across the income distribution, fall in crime, no need for walls or mass deportations, etc. I'm reading a lot of press articles across the spectrum that give off the impression that we are living in the greatest time ever and doing better than our international peers. So why did Obama complain so much at the time about Republican obstruction and why are people on both sides running on rhetoric that there's still more work to do? We can't be perfect. I'm going to miss Obama and his Republican Dream Team.

You said Donald had good ideas. I blacked out at that moment.
 

Crisco

Banned
I'm also particularly fascinated into finding out why people like Gary Johnson and Stein (who are terrible) are holding up. Donald and Hillary seem like they would be way better than both third party candidates because they have some good ideas and most of the other garbage will be blocked by Congress and the courts.

We can see a lot of the good that can be associated with that during the Obama administration. I mean look at how Pres. Obama and his surrogates whined and threw tantrums about the judicial and congressional branches opposing his agenda and all the things he was prevented from doing. Nevertheless, we see all of this private sector job growth, gains across the income distribution, fall in crime, no need for walls or mass deportations, etc. I'm reading a lot of press articles across the spectrum that give off the impression that we are living in the greatest time ever and doing better than our international peers. So why did Obama complain so much at the time about Republican obstruction and why are people on both sides running on rhetoric that there's still more work to do? We can't be perfect. I'm going to miss Obama and his Republican Dream Team.

You think blocking Obama on gun control, immigration reform, cutting carbon emissions, and infrastructure spending were good things that helped the nation? Oh boy.....
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
That's a web ad from Obama's campaign in 2008.

Yup. Obama also attacked Clinton for her closeness to lobbyists, he just couldn't do it as much as Sanders because Obama was also very close to lobbyists during his primary campaign. I just think this notion that Sanders somehow stepped out of bounds is just petty vindictiveness. He had every right to call Clinton out on her associations with Goldman Sachs. That is a genuinely worrying state of affairs on any presidential candidate. But even if he had somehow been more aggressive against Clinton than Clinton herself was against Obama (which he wasn't, let's not forget 3 AM and the birth of birtherism), there'd be absolutely no use dredging it up now. It is over. Sanders is now in your camp, and his camp can be in your camp too if you don't keep bashing their hero and talking about how much you hate them for being lazy layabout millenials. Little wonder they don't want to turn up.
 
What Plouffe says:

- NH will probably put Hillary over 270.

- Polls seem to overstate Johnson and Stein who he doesn't believe will reach their poll numbers.

- Still looks like a 4-6 point race in the fundamental.

- She needs to wrestle the agenda away from Trump and put him on the defensive and be more aggressive.

- We're in the last 6 weeks, so spend as little time in CA and NY as possible and get into smaller communities in those states to cut the margin down in counties she might not win.
 
She the second most disliked presidential nominee in history.

She used to be the most well liked politician in the country.

She got hated only recently. She's a very popular, well liked politician most of the time.

It doesn't even matter anyway. Trump was more hated than any of the GOP candidates. Won his race by a mile. Hillary was more hated than Bernie by far. Won her race by a mile (and yes, it was a mile folks. Bernie wasn't close).

It's almost like you don't have to personally like someone to think they're competent for a job! Or vice versa, you can like someone and still think they're an idiot! This is pretty much my position on Sanders. I think he seems like a nice man, but he clearly doesn't have a clue how to govern, certainly not with respect to well-thought out policy, and so I would never vote for him (after seeing how bad he is at policy, I'd probably support another candidate if I lived in VT).

Still like the guy! Wouldn't vote for him. Favorability as a question is arguably not that useful.
 
What Plouffe says:

- NH will probably put Hillary over 270.

- Polls seem to overstate Johnson and Stein who he doesn't believe will reach his poll numbers.

- Still looks like a 4-6 point race in the fundamental.

- She needs to wrestle the agenda away from Trump and put him on the defensive and be more aggressive.

- We're in the last 6 weeks, so spend as little time in CA and NY as possible and get into smaller communities in those states to cut the margin down in counties she might not win.

wait, is this plouffe or me
 

studyguy

Member
Seriously there's no point in campaigning in CA/NY unless you're looking to raise funds for the campaign out here in my state or NY. We're locked in and out down ballots in CA at least are okay.
 

Emarv

Member
What Plouffe says:

- NH will probably put Hillary over 270.

- Polls seem to overstate Johnson and Stein who he doesn't believe will reach his poll numbers.

- Still looks like a 4-6 point race in the fundamental.

- She needs to wrestle the agenda away from Trump and put him on the defensive and be more aggressive.

- We're in the last 6 weeks, so spend as little time in CA and NY as possible and get into smaller communities in those states to cut the margin down in counties she might not win.

Plouffe > Axelrod.


I'm standing by my +6.5 "landslide" for Clinton being the strongest she could get, but we should expect 4-6 throughout the fall, for sure.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
IIRC, Gary Johnson's supporters identify more as Democrats than Republicans and most of the Democrat leaners not voting for Hillary are BoBers.

I'm assuming that out of some of the people that voted for Bernie but refuse to vote for Hillary are socialists, but maybe that's incorrect.

I know a few really petulant lefties who can't bring themselves to vote for Hill, but none of them have any kind thoughts toward Johnson.

Johnson's biggest draw seems to be the moderate millennial right... folks who don't care about minorities but don't actively hate them.

If Bernie looks like the future of the Democratic Party, Gary might foreshadow the ways the GOP will change.
 

sphagnum

Banned
IIRC, Gary Johnson's supporters identify more as Democrats than Republicans and most of the Democrat leaners not voting for Hillary are BoBers.

I'm assuming that out of some of the people that voted for Bernie but refuse to vote for Hillary are socialists, but maybe that's incorrect.

I don't know anyone on the left voting for Johnson and my whole group of friends are largely anti-Hillary. They're all on the Steinwagon.
 
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