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PoliGAF 2016 |OT10| Jill Stein Inflatable Love Doll

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D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Crisco said:
No, it's garbage. It provides a tax deduction, not a tax credit, which is fucking worthless to the people who need it most because they already pay little taxes due to being dirt poor. Also, the pay for is some incomprehensible gobbledygook about ending unemployment benefits fraud. Its yet another handout to rich people who can afford expensive babysitters that fucks over the middle class and poor.
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I think even middle class people ought to be incentivized to dedicate more resources toward their children. America grossly undervalues the importance of proper childcare, and if some change happens culturally, even if the benefits are initially unevenly distributed, a step has been made. In that respect, this policy is an improvement on the status quo.

A tiny one, mind, and Clinton is offering a much better one; I'm just trying to find *any* policy that isn't a step back.
 
D

daedalius

Member
Trevor spitting fire last night.

I've really warmed up to him as time has gone on, I feel like he does a good job. No one will ever beat Jon for me(although Sam B is close), but Trevor is really filling that chair pretty nicely now.
 
R

royalan

Member
Crab said:
Yup. Obama also attacked Clinton for her closeness to lobbyists, he just couldn't do it as much as Sanders because Obama was also very close to lobbyists during his primary campaign. I just think this notion that Sanders somehow stepped out of bounds is just petty vindictiveness. He had every right to call Clinton out on her associations with Goldman Sachs. That is a genuinely worrying state of affairs on any presidential candidate. But even if he had somehow been more aggressive against Clinton than Clinton herself was against Obama (which he wasn't, let's not forget 3 AM and the birth of birtherism), there'd be absolutely no use dredging it up now. It is over. Sanders is now in your camp, and his camp can be in your camp too if you don't keep bashing their hero and talking about how much you hate them for being lazy layabout millenials. Little wonder they don't want to turn up.
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Oh Crab come on...

I'll admit to being petty towards Bernie for how he acted in the primary (petty as fuck... Maybe), but you know damn well that's not how this works.

Bernie was destined to lose a significant chunk of his support the second he didn't win. He's not a Democrat and he didn't start out with a loyal base.

He lost another significant chunk of his support when he brought Jeff Weaver in to manage his Revolution PAC, this shooting what little chance it had of taking off in the foot.

Hillary's petty supporters had nothing to do with that. Sanders being a terrible movement leader when there spotlight isn't already trained on him had everything to do with that.

I agree that Hillary needs to spend more time (ok, time at all) reaching out to young people, but coddling Bernie won't help. He no longer has their ear outside his die-hards.
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
DontBeThatGuy said:
We need the enthusiasm of this crowd across the board, lets go.
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Her simply reappearing on the campaign trail will help. The coming avalanche of top-tier surrogates on the campaign will do even more, and so on.

Honestly, everything was going well until the damn pneumonia. Silver tweeted today that polls did show a nice rebound for Hillary before the weekend, simply by going on the trail again.
 
H

Holmes

Member
That was a good speech. I feel energized. And a Deborah Ross shout out! She needs to have televised speeches and press conferences pretty much every day now.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
I couldn't run for president because I cough as a nervous tic, or when I get excited, or sometimes just because. I cough a lot.

Joeytj said:
Her simply reappearing on the campaign trail will help. The coming avalanche of top-tier surrogates on the campaign will do even more, and so on.

Honestly, everything was going well until the damn pneumonia. Silver tweeted today that polls did show a nice rebound for Hillary before the weekend, simply by going on the trail again.
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Yea, they were. I noticed that too.

Which is a good sign, I think. She just needs to be out there, show she's healthy and ready to go, and everything will settle back.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
I think we need the real king of getting screwed by people think you're too boring and making false equivalencies to return and set people straight.

Time for Gore to hit the stump.

Too bad he and Hillary don't really like each other.
 
S

Spiritreaver

Member
Joeytj said:
Her simply reappearing on the campaign trail will help. The coming avalanche of top-tier surrogates on the campaign will do even more, and so on.

Honestly, everything was going well until the damn pneumonia. Silver tweeted today that polls did show a nice rebound for Hillary before the weekend, simply by going on the trail again.
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Yeah, she was trending up in some of those tracking polls consistently until the weekend.
 
H

Holmes

Member
Spoiled Milk said:
Why? It's hopeless and Donald Trump is going to win.
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tumblr_inline_o4j1mcEiY51tg2rwy_500.gif
 
Z

Zukkoyaki

Member
Lots of top analysts have already dismissed those Emerson polls including Enten

Edit: Sounds like Hillary had a strong speech and seemed energized. Good!
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Melkr_ said:
Remember that time when there was empirical evidence that Bernie was better positioned than Clinton to defeat Trump? Good days.

If you gonna pretend Bernie is at fault for saying what everyone else was thinking about Clinton, then you have a displaced blaming game. Most people don't make an effort to rationalize away all of Hillary's criticisms, and it seems the polls agree!
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Haha, is that you?
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Crab said:
Sanders, by and large, didn't attack Clinton for anything that any other well-placed Democratic challenger wouldn't have. We know this because Martin O'Malley used almost all the same lines of attack and complained about all the same speeches and so on that Sanders did (although admittedly nobody noticed because it was O'Malley). Unless you wanted a literal coronation where nobody ran against Clinton (and the DNC tried quite hard to arrange that), you can't seriously be blaming Clinton having gone through a primary for her having such poor enthusiasm figures. In fact, even stating that argument is unhelpful, because the more you attack Sanders for doing what any Democratic challenger would have done (probably less, in fact), the more likely you are to irritate his former base, the very people we're worried about enthusing.

It might hurt, but you need to talk about how great Sanders was and what Clinton can take from such a strong and principled challenger going forward. Don't make the same mistakes as Owen Smith where you end up attacking all the people you need to vote for you.
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Sanders did cross a line when he forcefully and repeatedly said that Clinton was not qualified to be President. Really hard to walk that one back. He also put out a press release accusing Clinton of money laundering.

The rule is (and I would argue that this is a rule that both Clinton and Obama followed in 2008) you don't say anything that would keep you from supporting your opponent if you lose. That combined with the fact that Sanders actively questioned and undercut the validity of the election and I think he did provide a ton of cover for Trump.

None of it is massive and I don't think it will cost CLinton her election, but I do think it might cost someone like Ross and that is shameful.

Crab said:
If we're being as unbiased as possible and willing to consider every avenue, re TheLaughingStock:

- Trump's childcare plan is reasonable. It's not as good as Clinton's, comparatively, but it is better than the status quo, and significantly more generous than quite a large amount of the traditional fiscally-conservative quarter of the Republican party.
- Withdrawing from TPP is the best thing to do if you are genuinely concerned about poorer white-collar workers. Yes, free trade improves the position of the average citizen, but the gains are unevenly distributed and unless there are forceful measures to redistribute, the poorest lose out. Insofar as we judge a society by how it treats its poorest, that makes this a good policy (ceteris paribus).
- His infrastructure plans are good. They're not Clinton good, but same as his childcare plans, they're better than much of the rest of the Republican party.
- There are elements of his veteran plan that are good.

I think that's it. I welcome anyone else to play the Find-Trump-Policies-That-Aren't-Shit game, though.
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You seem to be a great person to ask about this. I have seen it argued that Trump's maternity leave plan would actually be a net negative for women because it doesn't offer paternity leave as well. The thinking being that employers would have a clear incentive to hire men over women. This would lower women's employment opportunities and wages.

Do you think it's possible for a poorly considered maternity leave plan to have such drastic knock on effects?
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Couldn't watch her, but from the photos her hair/makeup/style team polished her within an inch of her life... She's looking great.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Wilsongt said:
Who actually uses a cell phone for phone calls?

Text that shit out and you'll get a different outcome
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My mom can take hours to respond to a text. She'll answer a call immediately. So I generally call her.

I actually wonder if there's been any experimentation done with text message polling. Seems like the results would skew too young, though.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Over/under on the number of dead hookers buried under Donald Trump Jr.'s basement? I'm not saying he recreates the "tuck" scene from Silence of the Lambs on a weekly basis, but he does.
 
N

nature boy

Member
I've heard Mark Mellman say automated polls are illegal for mobile phones.

That's the only explanation I can reasonably find for Emerson polls.
 
T

tedrotheredro

Member
Unfortunately it's telling that landlines can even be used in statistical polls. Young people simply don't vote, whereas it's grandma's purpose in life.
 
F

fauxtrot

Banned
I guarantee you that even with cell phone polling, you're significantly undersampling lower/lower-middle class voters.

Anyone trying to avoid debt collectors (like me) sure as hell isn't answering their cell when an unknown number pops up, which in a lot of cases is multiple times per day.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
Bronx-Man said:
It was hot as a motherfucker today. Just built a new damn rec center for her to speak in, but they just had to use the old one for some reason.
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kind of like how she spoke outside at fort gibbs randomly right after the DNC, instead of literally any other venue in columbus

(just in time for people to wait long enough for the rally to start to get heat stroke)
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
fauxtrot said:
I guarantee you that even with cell phone polling, you're significantly undersampling lower/lower-middle class voters.

Anyone trying to avoid debt collectors (like me) sure as hell isn't answering their cell when an unknown number pops up, which in a lot of cases is multiple times per day.
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Not in my contacts, I'm not answering the phone

Don't leave a voice mail, might as well not exist.

I get too much spam calls to answer every single call. When I bought my house my number ended up everywhere and now I get daily spam calls. Someone has been trying to sell me solar panels using 200 different numbers for years now.
 
F

fauxtrot

Banned
balladofwindfishes said:
Not in my contacts, I'm not answering the phone

Don't leave a voice mail, might as well not exist.

I get too much spam calls to answer every single call. When I bought my house my number ended up everywhere and now I get daily spam calls. Someone has been trying to sell me solar panels using 200 different numbers for years now.
Click to expand...

I intentionally leave my voice-mailbox full because I got sick of deleting 2+ messages from debt collectors every single day. Everyone knows to text me, email me, or be in my contacts list... otherwise, you're not getting a hold of me.
 
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