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PoliGAF 2016 |OT10| Jill Stein Inflatable Love Doll

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How the fuck did PoliGaf survive the 2012 election, when polls where even tighter, especially after the first debate?

I remember Andrew Sullivan's meltdown lol, so I can guess that's how a lot of you reacted. Anybody got a link to the thread from back then?

Hillary is not Obama.

Ohio/Iowa was never much an issue for him, he was comfortable in the polls there. I guarantee the next Florida polls are gonna continue this trend, and states like Nevada and NH are gonna be shaky as hell too. I'm gonna become the new Diablos, fuck it.
 
Very confused by this in the IOWA poll


That's really weird.

I noticed the same with the CNN/ORC Florida poll.

My guess is most of those independents are people who are Republicans in everything BUT name. They just don't want to be tied down to the party but are coming home to Trump because he has an R next to his name.

Plus the enthusiasm gap stuff, too.
 
Hillary is not Obama.

Ohio/Iowa was never much an issue for him, he was comfortable in the polls there. And I guarantee the next Florida polls will not be pretty, and NH has always been too close for comfort this election.

I guarantee the next Florida polls are gonna continue this trend, and states like Nevada and NH are gonna be shaky as hell too. I'm gonna become the new Diablos, fuck it.

DontBeThatGuy
 

Teggy

Member
How the fuck did PoliGaf survive the 2012 election, when polls where even tighter, especially after the first debate?

I remember Andrew Sullivan's meltdown lol, so I can guess that's how a lot of you reacted. Anybody got a link to the thread from back then?

Donald Trump was not the alternative. It's just different.
 
Poligaf will commit collective suicide when she loses in 2020.

I'll be fine with her losing in 2020 as long as the GOP gets their shit together so another Trump doesn't happen. Get it all together and put it in a back pack, all their shit, so it's together. And if they gotta take it somewhere, take it somewhere, you know, take it to the shit store and sell it, or put it in the shit museum. I don't care what they do, they just gotta get it together.
 

HylianTom

Banned
r/Donald went from whining about fixed polls to jerking off to them.

lol.
It'd be kinda funny if we went into Election Day like this and she won 290EVs, mainly courtesy of her GOTV operation in her firewall states. The howls of "rigged!" would be ear-piercing.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
"Hillary's comeback" would be a nice shift in the narrative.

That's the narrative that is coming until the debates; Hillary comes back and can she finish off Trump at the first debate. Expectations get raised ungodly high (mostly by Democrats, who will blame the media for raising expectations afterward), Trump will probably not crap the bed during the first debate, causing a full bedwetting panic and "is Clinton in trouble" stories until the second debate, where Clinton will recover and beat Trump badly, completing her third arc and going on to the presidency.
 
What incentive is there going to be post-election for the Republicans to actually confirm anyone to the Supreme Court? It seems like they have every reason to just continue the stalemate indefinitely. The Senate/House races aren't really suffering that much because of their refusal to confirm (let alone Trump). Pretty hard to imagine a scenario in which the midterms somehow go in Democrats favor as a result, after all, if Trump isn't bad enough to cause a chamber flip, I'm not sure anything will be.
 
That's the narrative that is coming until the debates; Hillary comes back and can she finish off Trump at the first debate. Expectations get raised ungodly high (mostly by Democrats, who will blame the media for raising expectations afterward), Trump will probably not crap the bed during the first debate, causing a full bedwetting panic and "is Clinton in trouble" stories until the second debate, where Clinton will recover and beat Trump badly, completing her third arc and going on to the presidency.

Sounds about right. Have to have drama in the election.

That's basically the same story arc they used for Obama.
 

royalan

Member
I don't think Trump has many viable paths to the presidency. Suppose that Clinton's LV numbers are still being boosted by using Obama's figures as a baseline - that counts for about 1.2% nationally (and only for some pollsters; some are using e.g. 2004's demographics precisely to try and avoid that problem, although I think that goes too far in correction). The NYT estimates 3% to 5% genuine swing voters, which is below 2012's 7% but in line with general trends. We'll call it 4%, say Clinton is winning half now, and only wins a quarter later. That's 1% gone, for 2.2% total. Say as well that turnout uniformly drops across Democrats (rather than just in specific demographics as per the 1.2% earlier) by 2%, which is quite heavy in addition with the assumptions above, and detracts 1% from her nationally again. We've only managed to knock 3.2% off her performance. That gives you this:



which is still a Clinton presidency. The easiest path to the Presidency for Trump from this near-worst timeline map is to take either New Hampshire or Maine, based on the demographics Trump does well with - NH for an outright win, Maine to take it to the House of Representatives. I don't think there's anything else in realistic range unless we're talking literal Clinton-discovered-with-the-skeletons-of-her-enemies territory. So there's maybe two viable paths and they're a stretch even by worst timeline standards - you'd need much heavier Democratic disillusionment than we have at the moment.

It's not really the Presidency that is worrying, but the Senate. If the above map did happen, you'd have a lame duck Clinton presidency. All of her policies would be essentially worthless unless they could be implemented via executive order, which is... very few of them. Given the state of direction of the two parties, it'd be perhaps the most gridlocked two years (at least!) in the last century of American politics - can you envision a bill coming out of a Republican legislature that Clinton wouldn't straight out veto? So I'm still more worried about the downticket. I'm standing by my statement that Clinton actually needs to have a national presence and not stick to little local rallies. For all the criticism of my "poor judgement", I think the news from Ohio leaves me vindicated. She can leave the ground game 'til later, she's already well ahead of Trump in terms of infrastructure and there's some pretty severe diminishing returns kicking in there.

Right now, I think she needs to be reaching out to minorities and young people. There aren't really swing voters in this election. It'll be won on who can rally the base better. And that means appealing to voters who are borderline between voting Democrat/not voting at all (or voting third party). The critical groups in that respect for the Democrats have to be minorities and young people - the Obama coalition. If she can rally that group, combine that with consistent Democrat voters who don't really need outreach to be rallied, then she's got the Senate. Start buttering up to Sanders, start making prominent appearances with Warren, cling to Obama like a barnacle to a hull, hold press conferences where you just talk about your policies and get questioned on them, seize the narrative.

The pneumonia is unfortunate insofar as it has stopped her doing this, but you can't really do anything about pneumonia; what's happened has happened and hopefully she recovers as quickly as possible.

Deplorables comment doesn't help. She still thinks she can enthuse people by pointing out how bad Trump is. That'd work if everyone was homo economicus and rationally picked the utility-maximizing candidate, but that's not actually how people work. She needs to enthuse people by talking about how awesome she is. Like, I think she'd do better if she did to Trump what she did to Sanders in the primary: totally ignore him. Don't give him airspace, don't discuss his ideas, don't talk about his failings. Just talk about yourself and your own policies. It simultaneously gets the word out about her and steals media oxygen from Trump. I think he and his base thrive on being attacked. They love it, they welcome liberal anguish. It gets them out of the bed in the mornings and it'll take them to the polling station in the evenings. Just ignore them.

Yes to every got damn word, especially the last paragraph.
 

Diablos

Member
The firewall is starting to break down a bit.
It's not gone but the bleeding has to stop.

Hillary needs to win back some third party voters and get people excited again. This is much more easily said than done.

Things are looking bad though. We need to see this thing turn around, pronto.

RNC retweeting nazi bullshit, are you kidding me
 
That's the narrative that is coming until the debates; Hillary comes back and can she finish off Trump at the first debate. Expectations get raised ungodly high (mostly by Democrats, who will blame the media for raising expectations afterward), Trump will probably not crap the bed during the first debate, causing a full bedwetting panic and "is Clinton in trouble" stories until the second debate, where Clinton will recover and beat Trump badly, completing her third arc and going on to the presidency.
so, 2012.
 
That's the narrative that is coming until the debates; Hillary comes back and can she finish off Trump at the first debate. Expectations get raised ungodly high (mostly by Democrats, who will blame the media for raising expectations afterward), Trump will probably not crap the bed during the first debate, causing a full bedwetting panic and "is Clinton in trouble" stories until the second debate, where Clinton will recover and beat Trump badly, completing her third arc and going on to the presidency.

It's the same as the DNC. It's a story with a conflict The emails DWS and the sole protest made it more of a success. Which is part of the reason it was so successful. I'' hoping this is the same, cuz I am feelin' the Diablos spirit right now.
 
I have had to stop hanging out with some very nice people I met volunteering for Hillary earlier in the summer because they are freaking out about polls. Such a drag to be around. I hope I didn't come off like that in '12. :-(
 

studyguy

Member

latest
 

Tarkus

Member
The firewall is starting to break down a bit.
It's not gone but the bleeding has to stop.

Hillary needs to win back some third party voters and get people excited again. This is much more easily said than done.

Things are looking bad though. We need to see this thing turn around, pronto.

RNC retweeting nazi bullshit, are you kidding me
Basket of dontbethatguy in this post
 
I don't think Obama had the email scandal, slouched for an entire month and then passed out at a 9/11 memorial right after making a polarizing comment
So, Clinton has managed to be at Obama levels while having pneumonia, an email scandal, slouched for an entire month, and then passed out at a 9/11 memorial right after making a polarizing comment.

She's... She's unstoppable!
 
I don't think Obama had the email scandal, slouched for an entire month and then passed out at a 9/11 memorial right after making a polarizing comment
Isn't it great that after all that, Clinton is still winning, and the best days of the campaign are ahead of us?

There isn't another e-mail scandal to happen, there isn't going to be another month off, and I don't think there are any 9/11 memorials left to attend, so we good brah.
 
I don't think Obama had the email scandal, slouched for an entire month and then passed out at a 9/11 memorial right after making a polarizing comment

She started at higher numbers than Obama did in 2012. Right now she's "only" where Obama was in 2012 at this time. She also has a fantastic economy and a popular president behind her. Obama didn't really have either at the time (he was only sort of popular and the economy was still in recovery)
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Isn't it great that after all that, Clinton is still winning, and the best days of the campaign are ahead of us?

There isn't another e-mail scandal to happen, there isn't going to be another month off, and I don't think there are any 9/11 memorials left to attend, so we good brah.

I would expect a pretty damaging e-mail drop between either debate 1 and 2 or 2 and 3. Too many DNC folks have prepped resignation letters for me not to think otherwise at this point. Do it before Debate 2 if you want her to get hammered in the Town Hall on them, or if Trump exceeds expectations post Debate 1 and gets hammered Debate 2, then drop it in between 2 and 3 to try to swing it back towards Trump.
 

Pastry

Banned
Long time poligaf lurker here with a question.

Isn't what we're seeing right now to be expected? Obviously Hillary has had a bad two or three weeks but wasn't it inevitable that polls would tighten around this time?
 
Long time poligaf lurker here with a question.

Isn't what we're seeing right now to be expected? Obviously Hillary has had a bad two or three weeks but wasn't it inevitable that polls would tighten around this time?
Third party support is strongest around labor day. This is also where Obama was at this point in his last election.
 

royalan

Member
I don't think Obama had the email scandal, slouched for an entire month and then passed out at a 9/11 memorial right after making a polarizing comment

This.

The constant comparisons to Obama in 2012 are frustrating for how incredibly false they are.

Obama is a once-in-a-lifetime politician.

His nickname is "Campaigner in Chief" for crying out loud.

He had the charm and drive to turn a tight race around.

I love Hillary as much as the next Stan, but it's not hate to point out that she has MAYBE a fourth of that man's charm on the campaign trail and actively HATES campaigning, and it shows in everything she's not doing.

So y'all better hope this race doesn't get that damn tight.
 
Is there an audio of the Jr. "gas of chambers" remark? Nevermind found it.

Micah GrimesVerified account ‏@MicahGrimes 1h1 hour ago
Trump Jr. tells @KatyTurNBC that his "gas chamber" comment is referencing corporal punishment, not in any way anti-Semitic.

Oh FFS.
 
Is there an audio of the Jr. "gas of chambers" remark? Nevermind found it.



Oh FFS.

I have no doubt that was his intention. The holocaust spin is bad even with the troublesome history of him with white supremacists.

When its holocast its usually showers or ovens. Not "gas chamber"

That and he made a electric chair comment earlier this year.

Even if its true making everything racist I think is the biggest backfire of clinton. White people hate being called racist and a lot of the push back isn't coming from the "irredeemable deplorable" its from people who literally are just being exposed to this stuff in the past few years and are now being called virulent racists.\

And he clearly meant capital not corporal if you're going to attack him for that.

twitter search for gas chamber before tuesday

https://twitter.com/search?q="gas chamber" until:2016-09-13&src=typd

Lots of death penalty references. Not as many nazi jokes (though lots of references to them in a clinical sense and denial)
 

Brinbe

Member
Trump Jr is somehow even worse than his father. What an abysmal human being.


Anyway, that Iowa poll sucks, that state has never been too kind to Hillary. But there's really nothing to get freaked out about till the debates.
 

Tarkus

Member
I have no doubt that was his intention. The holocaust spin is bad even with the troublesome history of him with white supremacists.

When its holocast its usually showers or ovens. Not "gas chamber"

That and he made a electric chair comment earlier this year.

Even if its true making everything racist I think is the biggest backfire of clinton. White people hate being called racist and a lot of the push back isn't coming from the "irredeemable deplorable" its from people who literally are just being exposed to this stuff in the past few years and are now being called virulent racists.

And he clearly meant capital not corporal if you're going to attack him for that.
Agreed. I think most others do too. Mr. ILoveToScream@Twitter's thread on this was locked for a reason.
 
The good VNs on Steam has kept me sane this past week as things go off the rails. Just need to manage 10 more days until the debates, and after the debates I'll have PSVR to desperately try to help me escape reality (and cause distracting motion sickness). Moreover, to paraphrase a variety of people, "thank god the NFL season started." Trump loves the Patriots and I hate those damn cheaters, so it's a natural connection for me.

Try to save your panic for the first round of polls from entirely after the first debate if possible, people. Mostly given up on Iowa regardless, though, and it's not worth fighting for. Throw everything into to locking up the comparatively safe CO/NV/PA/VA which would already be 275.
 
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