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PoliGAF 2016 |OT11| Well this is exciting

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D

Diablos

Member
Crab said:
If this doesn't mean post-election, then unless she plans to make up some policies in the final month, which given Clinton's history of caution would surprise me immensely, this means... very little?

If it includes post-election, that's a good start, although a start alone.
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If she wins they'll come back after the election. Slowly but surely. It's inevitable.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
adam387 said:
Anna PalmerVerified account
‏@apalmerdc

NEWS: Clinton barring lobbyists from policy groups & transition team. Unclear whether that would remain in place post-election/WH.
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This is a stupid "reform" lobbyists is such a meaningless term. It's basically like saying you can't hire technical experts.
 
R

royalan

Member
Voysa Reezun said:
It strikes me as a "I did it, why don't the poors do it" type of argument when people talk about how they made it through college with low debt or debt-free and deride others who don't via a small sample size of people they've known in their lives with high college debt.

I have a Master's and only paid 38K (my B.A., I got debt-free). Did I use some of that cash to live? Yeah, but I was also working at the time teaching classes and tutoring - and if you're a teacher, you know that it takes significant prep time to do it right. It's not like I was like, "fuck it, I'll spend profligately." I needed the Master's to work in my career field.

Yeah, I got my B.A. for no debt, but not because I was smart. I was lucky to have people around me to show me opportunities. My parents let me know that they'd have no money for college, so I applied for scholarships, and I participated in a national competition through my high school that ended up awarding me money for scholarships only because of a teacher who recommended me for a spot on the team.

In other words, I was lucky to have good guidance because I was a dumbass seventeen-year-old kid who wasn't yet adept at making the greatest choices on a regular basis.

I was also lucky just to live in a state with low in-state tuition at the time. Tuition in general was so low, in fact, that kids from California found out-of-state tuition here to be cheaper than their in-state tuition to the Cal State schools, never mind the UC schools.

This country feeds a "need to go to college" narrative to people that specifically focuses on four-year major universities. College is half-necessity, half-rite-of-passage. Tuition is ever more expensive (and since instructors don't see commensurate raises in most places, you can guess where that money goes). I find it pretty unnecessary to shit on people who were told all their lives that they had to go to a good (read: not "community") college to get anywhere, thought that going to a good college would equal a good-paying job, and then got out to find that it wasn't true.

Were some of these people not great with their money? I'm sure some were. I know just as many people who worked through college (I did as an undergrad, as did pretty much everyone I knew). But I get why those people feel like they got sold some bullshit and are asking for loan forgiveness.

Frankly, I don't think that complete loan forgiveness for everyone is at all feasible, but we have a ton of shit to fix and a ton of places in this country that need help from people, and trading some partial or complete loan forgiveness for these former students' work and time seems like a start to addressing the specific problem of these voters.

I also don't give a shit if voters like Bernie's asking for loan forgiveness sounds like a caricature of what conservatives think that liberals really want from the government. Conservatives love their handouts more than everyone else in this country. Take away their farm subsidies or tell them that the major urban areas in their states don't want to send their tax money to the countryside to bus their kids from their remote-ass houses to school, and they'll bitch, moan, and whine about it more than any Bernie-or-buster does about his student loans. They can take the planks out of their eyes first when it comes to criticizing people for wanting government handouts.
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Every word.

Every. Word.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I did the four year, major university thing though and I emerged with 22k in debt by going one state over with tuition reciprocity, finding decent but not extraordinary part time work, and working hard enough to apply for Pell grants. Does that 22k suck? Sure. But the $200 a month I'm paying off is not really dragging my finances


Again I think we're talking about people who find Clintons entirely reasonable proposals for debt refinancing, stricter income percentage caps and maybe even forgiveness for service to be "unacceptable"
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
There are probably plenty of poor -> rich transfers in public policy we deal with, especially considering rich people seem to find ways to pay no taxes at all. I would suspect that most people agree college for everyone is a public good. I didn't think it was half a year ago, but seeing how utterly fucked non-college white men are I kind of think maybe they could use some education.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Emarv said:
I need this audio!

Honestly, of all of his surrogates, the descent of Guiliani has been the most fascinating to watch. He totally drank the coolaid.
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This is who he always was. He won the Mayoral race against NYC's first (and only) black mayor. Even though Dinkins was the one that presided over a dramatic lowering of crime rates, Giuliani won by convincing voters that NYC was still a war zone. He heavily relied on dog whistling to prey on white voters fears and rode that wave of fear to victory. Once he took office he simply kept Dinkins policies in place and took all the credit.

Sound familiar? Rudy didn't drink the Trump Koolaid, Trump drank the Rudy Koolaid.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
BlastProcessing said:
This is who he always was. He won the Mayoral race against NYC's first (and only) black mayor. Even though Dinkins was the one that presided over a dramatic lowering of crime rates, Giuliani won by convincing voters that NYC was till a war zone. He heavily relied on dog whistling to prey on white voters fears and rode that wave of fear to victory. Once he took office he simply kept Dinkins policies in place and took all the credit.

Sound familiar? Rudy didn't drink the Trump Koolaid, Trump drank the Rudy Koolaid.
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Yup.
 
8

8 X 11 Printer Paper

Member
BlastProcessing said:
This is who he always was. He won the Mayoral race against NYC's first (and only) black mayor. Even though Dinkins was the one that presided over a dramatic lowering of crime rates, Giuliani won by convincing voters that NYC was till a war zone. He heavily relied on dog whistling to prey on white voters fears and rode that wave of fear to victory. Once he took office he simply kept Dinkins policies in place and took all the credit.

Sound familiar? Rudy didn't drink the Trump Koolaid, Trump drank the Rudy Koolaid.
Click to expand...

I thought Rudy won due to the Non-Fat Frozen Yogurt scandal and the Name Tag fiasco?
 
E

Emarv

Member
BlastProcessing said:
This is who he always was. He won the Mayoral race against NYC's first (and only) black mayor. Even though Dinkins was the one that presided over a dramatic lowering of crime rates, Giuliani won by convincing voters that NYC was still a war zone. He heavily relied on dog whistling to prey on white voters fears and rode that wave of fear to victory. Once he took office he simply kept Dinkins policies in place and took all the credit.

Sound familiar? Rudy didn't drink the Trump Koolaid, Trump drank the Rudy Koolaid.
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Wow. I honestly don't know much about NYC, but this makes sense. I'm from the south and basically just knew him as the 9/11 guy. Like, I knew he wasn't a good dude and knew of some of his marriage thing, but that makes it all come together.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Y2Kev said:
There are probably plenty of poor -> rich transfers in public policy we deal with, especially considering rich people seem to find ways to pay no taxes at all. I would suspect that most people agree college for everyone is a public good. I didn't think it was half a year ago, but seeing how utterly fucked non-college white men are I kind of think maybe they could use some education.
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I think people generally misread the non-college educated white men demographic. The education part get entirely too much weight placed on it and the group gets cast as too stupid to vote correctly.

I think it's more important to look at college education as a social class and wealth marker. If you went to college, odds are that you came from a family situation that was financially stable enough to send you. Even if you had to work a job while you attended, for most, the ability to attend college is a luxury, a privilege. You had probably had access to good public schools and infrastructure.

Just sending everyone to college for free doesn't substantially change the demographic.
 
S

SexyFish

Banned
Finale Fireworker said:
I'm imagining it's her wrestling persona, personally.
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575793_2.jpg
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What's her intro music?
 
U

User 463088

Banned
How stupid is he to link to the edited story that makes her look good. Get one of your trolls from Breitbart to write a bullshit click-bate story or something. Idiot.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
BlastProcessing said:
I think people generally misread the non-college educated white men demographic. The education part get entirely too much weight placed on it and the group gets cast as too stupid to vote correctly.

I think it's more important to look at college education as a social class and wealth marker. If you went to college, odds are that you came from a family situation that was financially stable enough to send you. Even if you had to work a job while you attended, for most, the ability to attend college is a luxury, a privilege. You had probably had access to good public schools and infrastructure.

Just sending everyone to college for free doesn't substantially change the demographic.
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I'm actually not sure I agree. College was the time in my life where I was presented with the largest number of people coming from the largest number of places with the most diversity of background along every conceivable axis.

I know everyone isn't going to have the same college experience-- and, without being glib, perhaps going to University of Bumfuck at Little Rock is not going to give you the same experience-- I think that sort of newness, of difference, and of disputatious learning IS sort of universal and essential to the beings of people who go to college vs. those who don't.

This is an incredible generality. There are twats at college. There are incredibly worldly, secular people who do not go to college. But on average, just being in an uncomfortable and challenging place really does shape people differently than, for example, not. I'm relatively comfortable making this argument without data to support it but I would be really surprised if it were not true on average.
 
F

Fox318

Member
Aside from the few pictures I've seen of Hillary golfing does she have a hobby or do anything to relax or have fun?

Does she garden?
 
B

BiggNife

Member
So do we actually expect a massive backlash to the Sanders quote or is the assumption that it'll blow over?

I know it's not bad in context, but it's not like the media has ever given a shit about context.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
BiggNife said:
So do we actually expect a massive backlash to the Sanders quote or is the assumption that it'll blow over?

I know it's not bad in context, but it's not like the media has ever given a shit about context.
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Literally no one is talking about this. The original tape was released on Thursday. From what I've seen, none of the networks have picked up on it, even though it's been out there. Hugh Hewitt tried to make it a thing, and Joy was like "naw."
 
E

Effect

Member
BiggNife said:
So do we actually expect a massive backlash to the Sanders quote or is the assumption that it'll blow over?

I know it's not bad in context, but it's not like the media has ever given a shit about context.
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Are they even talking about it? Haven't been near a tv all day.

adam387 said:
Literally no one is talking about this. The original tape was released on Thursday. From what I've seen, none of the networks have picked up on it, even though it's been out there. Hugh Hewitt tried to make it a thing, and Joy was like "naw."
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Thanks.
 
D

DontBeThatGuy

Member
adam387 said:
Literally no one is talking about this. The original tape was released on Thursday. From what I've seen, none of the networks have picked up on it, even though it's been out there. Hugh Hewitt tried to make it a thing, and Joy was like "naw."
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It's definitely a thing on Twitter, that's all I've seen.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
I really need to stop defending Hillary to millennials and younger people who just hate her. It gets me nowhere.

adam387 said:
Literally no one is talking about this. The original tape was released on Thursday. From what I've seen, none of the networks have picked up on it, even though it's been out there. Hugh Hewitt tried to make it a thing, and Joy was like "naw."
Click to expand...

you know there is a lot ONE huge person on Twitter discussing it in a rage induced tweet storm.
 
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