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PoliGAF 2016 |OT11| Well this is exciting

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E

Emarv

Member
lol

Shane Goldmacher
‏@ShaneGoldmacher
An amazing open to @GlennThrush's podcast with @DrJillStein

CsuXLm-WAAA6X0Y.jpg



Teggy said:
heh.


And I think Katy Tur really hates Trump.
Click to expand...

Without a doubt. And who could blame her after all she's been through.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
Have they been working? I don't know how authentic the stuff I've seen him do in that regard has seemed tbph.
Click to expand...

They don't need to be authentic. Just get Hillary's immigration message out in Spanish from the mouth of the VP candidate and become a familiar feature in Spanish speaking homes. It's not like the Trump campaign is going to have counter surrogates on either (no Kelly Anne Conway to deal with) so they could just dominate the airtime.

It takes no effort whatsoever for Kaine to do a few video interviews per week from the campaign trail and then a few in studio interviews whenever he stops by NY or DC. Do that, keep campaigning in VA and the rust belt and start adding some targeted swings through FL doing Spanish rallies to fire up the base.

It is political malfeasance to neglect using one of Kaine's most useful assets to shore up hispanic support, especially in FL where he could be doing joint rallies with Murphy to try an shore up his hispanic numbers by association.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
DrForester said:
And the terrorists attack totally washes away coverage of Trumps problems over the weekend...
Click to expand...

Honestly that damage has been done. Things happen. Clinton handled that press conference with grace. But we move on and she still has things to do. Hopefully they catch him quick
 
N

nature boy

Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
Have they been working? I don't know how authentic the stuff I've seen him do in that regard has seemed tbph.
Click to expand...

His spanish is actually pretty good, and I don't see how it harms him doing interviews and rallies in Florida. Like I know he has other qualities but ffs no other major surrogate speaks spanish.

Haven't seen or heard about spanish rallies but they should.
 
R

royalan

Member
Crab said:
Why would you focus resources on a group you're already winning and has high predicted turnout? I mean, the phrase "diminishing returns" comes to mind. You focus resources on marginal groups - ones that wouldn't be won/have high turnout were it not for the resources you put in.
Click to expand...

Yep.

Let me tie this to something I have to deal with every day. Any web developers in this thread know that a new and prevalent philosophy when it comes to design is Mobile First. The idea being that you target mobile devices with your design first because, with all their various screen sizes and resolutions and rendering engines, mobile devices are by far trickiest to design for. So when you're designing a site/web app, you target mobile devices first because it's much easier to do that first and have your design scale up to larger screen sizes than the reverse.

This is the big issue I have with Hillary's campaign right now: she's doing the reverse of what I just described. Her strategy of rallies and late night target the groups she's already winning and who are already paying attention. The groups she's lagging with - young people, minorities - are not tuning in, so they don't hear the message. She's going for the easiest first, and seemingly worrying about her lagging demos later.

She needs to target those groups because they're the hardest, and let her message trickle up from there. If I'm on Hillary's team, I'm putting her in a lot of uncomfortable places where I know she'll do well. It has been established that Hillary is at her best in small settings where she can engage in a dialogue with her audience; so I'm BEGGING The Read to interview her. I'm having her meet with BLM again (she hasn't since February). Elon James White is a popular black activist who works with NetRoots and has openly stated he would love to have any of the nominees on his podcast. She's doing a townhall on MTV - she doesn't have to try to be cool, the point is to be seen paying attention to this audience and answering their questions. I'm putting her on the Guys We've Fucked podcast. You get the point.

More small settings where she can engage with diverse audiences who aren't her press pool.

Less "Topic of the Week" rallies.

There. I just came up with a more workable campaign strategy than her current non-strategy in less time than it takes me to go to the toilet.
 
B

BotoxAgent

Member
Boke1879 said:
Honestly that damage has been done. Things happen. Clinton handled that press conference with grace. But we move on and she still has things to do. Hopefully they catch him quick
Click to expand...

Hopefully the press has finally woken up and continue to give trump a harder time
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Las7 said:
I mean I'm not really arguing about why Clinton was chosen.
I'm saying outside of the democratic base she is a weak candidate and the current developments around the race are simply an demonstration of her struggles as a candidate to frame herself rather than allow others to control the narrative surrounding her.

People perceive Hillary as being too close with the donor class(they also have the same reservations about majority of politicians), hence raising the tax rates on 1% more than what she proposed and limiting speculation would be two ways of distancing herself from this narrative. You think that someone in their right mind wouldn't run on such a campaign in a GE but both those policies would be popular among the voters she is trying to court. Trump comes out with another tax cut for billionaires and she can hammer him on that instead of focusing on his BS rhetoric.

Also about McGovern - to say he wasn't sabotaged by his opponents within the party would be misrepresenting the truth.
Click to expand...
At least she won California.
 
D

dramatis

Member
[NYTimes] Some Republicans Acknowledge Leveraging Voter ID Laws for Political Gain (this title lol)

There's been an ongoing investigation into Scott Walker and possible financial violations by his campaign, and as a result we got some emails (not Hillary's!). NYT took a brief scan on the voter ID from the documents released.
A senior vice president of the Metropolitan Milwaukee Chamber of Commerce, Steve Baas, had a thought. “Do we need to start messaging ‘widespread reports of election fraud’ so we are positively set up for the recount regardless of the final number?” he wrote in an email on April 6 to conservative strategists. “I obviously think we should.”

Scott Jensen, a Republican political tactician and former speaker of the State Assembly, responded within minutes. “Yes. Anything fishy should be highlighted,” he wrote. “Stories should be solicited by talk radio hosts.”
Click to expand...
Basically an NYT summary of voter ID events across the nation.

What is probably more juicy for PoliGAF to read is this, published last week:
The Guardian's Scott Walker article linked in the NY Times article, with links to the John Doe files (because it is called the "John Doe" investigation).

This article is very long and delves into investigation in the numbers and finance.
Snippets of the documents have already seen the light of day, quoted in legal filings, some of which were mistakenly posted to an official website. But the Guardian’s documents – consisting of email exchanges between Walker, his advisers, Republican leaders and major donors who included none other than Trump himself, together with court filings held under seal – amount to a rich chronicle of the electoral health of the United States in the wake of Citizens United.

They also form the substance of a case currently before the US supreme court, which has been petitioned by the Wisconsin prosecutors in an appeal against the decision to shut down their investigation. The nation’s highest judicial panel is expected to announce within days whether or not it will take the case.
Click to expand...
What is less well known about Citizens United is that in it, Justice Anthony Kennedy, who wrote the opinion, addressed head-on the fear that unlimited corporate cash would lead to an explosion in real or perceived corruption in the political system. He stated forcefully that there was no danger of corruption if one important condition was met: that corporations kept their distance from the candidates they were supporting and remained fully independent of the candidates' campaigns.

“By definition,” Kennedy wrote, “an independent expenditure is political speech presented to the electorate that is not coordinated with a candidate.” Such separation was necessary, he added, to avoid the risk that unlimited secret donations are given “as a quid pro quo for improper commitments from the candidate”.
Click to expand...
There is a bit of aura of righteousness in the Guardian report though, it's often screaming lol In that sense the article is somewhat too long.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
DrForester said:
And the terrorists attack totally washes away coverage of Trumps problems over the weekend...
Click to expand...

I think you guys are giving Trump too much credit that he'll be able to use them to his advantage. He already blundered his chances at using this successfully when he went on about a bomb before anyone even knew what happened. And then today he came out against freedom of the press, but then backed down and said he wasn't against freedom of the press, he just wants to restrict what people are able to publish.

So yea... I wouldn't worry that much. The Orlando shooting didn't sway anyone towards Trump, and this attack, with no fatal victims, will not likely do so, either.
 
A

A Link to the Past

Banned
royalan said:
Yep.

Let me tie this to something I have to deal with every day. Any web developers in this thread know that a new and prevalent philosophy when it comes to design is Mobile First. The idea being that you target mobile devices with your design first because, with all their various screen sizes and resolutions and rendering engines, mobile devices are by far trickiest to design for. So when you're designing a site/web app, you target mobile devices first because it's much easier to do that first and have your design scale up to larger screen sizes than the reverse.

This is the big issue I have with Hillary's campaign right now: she's doing the reverse of what I just described. Her strategy of rallies and late night target the groups she's already winning and who are already paying attention. The groups she's lagging with - young people, minorities - are not tuning in, so they don't hear the message. She's going for the easiest first, and seemingly worrying about her lagging demos later.

She needs to target those groups because they're the hardest, and let her message trickle up from there. If I'm on Hillary's team, I'm putting her in a lot of uncomfortable places where I know she'll do well. It has been established that Hillary is at her best in small settings where she can engage in a dialogue with her audience; so I'm BEGGING The Read to interview her. I'm having her meet with BLM again (she hasn't since February). Elon James White is a popular black activist who works with NetRoots and has openly stated he would love to have any of the nominees on his podcast. She's doing a townhall on MTV - she doesn't have to try to be cool, the point is to be seen paying attention to this audience and answering their questions. I'm putting her on the Guys We've Fucked podcast. You get the point.

More small settings where she can engage with diverse audiences who aren't her press pool.

Less "Topic of the Week" rallies.

There. I just came up with a more workable campaign strategy than her current non-strategy in less time than it takes me to go to the toilet.
Click to expand...

How far away is your toilet, approximately
 
D

Diablos

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
I think you guys are giving Trump too much credit that he'll be able to use them to his advantage. He always blundered his chances at using this successfully when he went on about a bomb before anyone even knew what happened. And then today he came out against freedom of the press, but then backed down and said he wasn't against freedom of the press, he just wants to restrict what people are able to publish.

So yea... I wouldn't worry that much. The Orlando shooting didn't sway anyone towards Trump, and this attack, with no fatal victims, will not likely do so, either.
Click to expand...
The problem is it puts terrorism front and center right before the first debate. It becomes less about Hillary trying to push a positive message and run laps around Trump demonstrating her experience and more about a pissing contest over who will do a better job of not keeping Americans up at night while crazy people blow shit up. 2004 vibes. Shit sucks.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Yo, catching up.

Saw I only had a couple of unread pages and wondered what happened... New thread happened!

I'm eager for polls that will include the last few days.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Diablos said:
The problem is it puts terrorism front and center right before the first debate. It becomes less about Hillary trying to push a positive message and run laps around Trump demonstrating her experience and more about a pissing contest over who will do a better job of not keeping Americans up at night while crazy people blow shit up. 2004 vibes. Shit sucks.
Click to expand...

The argument she can put against Trump is:

1. In the minutes after the attack, his first response was to tell a large crowd in Colorado that a bomb just went of in NY. He did not know it was a bomb, that information was not known yet. He also caused panic in a crowd that had no reason to panic, as they are half way across the country from NY. And he also went on to rant about how he would prevent stuff like this, never once mentioning the victims or hoping there were no causalities.

2. His response today is, yet again, to ignore the victims, and rant about how this will just keep happening, and only he can stop it. And we also need to limit how much information magazines and papers put out on explosives. And a bunch of extremely scary dictator-esque rhetoric.

Boke1879 said:
Hold up? Trump really talked about restricting what the press can publish?
Click to expand...
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/19/politics/trump-responds-to-nyc-and-nj-bombings/index.html

Trump also took aim at "magazines" and other media that publish instructions on how to make explosive devices, saying, "Those people should be arrested because they are inciting violence."

"So I see the other day, and they're all talking about it so wonderfully because it's called freedom of the press -- where you buy magazines and they tell you how to make the same bombs that you saw. I would -- now people will go crazy, they'll say Trump is against freedom of the press. I'm totally in favor of freedom of the press. But how do you allow magazines to be sold -- these are magazines that tell you, from step one, go to the store and buy such-and-such, right?"

He continued, "Those people should be arrested because they are inciting violence, OK. They are making violence possible. They should be arrested immediately. They have websites that tell how to make bombs, how to make all sorts of things that are totally destructive, and you know where they are coming from, and yet we don't want to touch them because of freedom of speech."
Click to expand...

He also called Muslim refugees "cancer"

He's going full on dictator.
 
K

kess

Member
If Republicans weren't utter fucking morons, the so-called Millennial generation could be a voting bloc for them, the same way the younger Boomers became reliable Republican voters after Nixon. I still think it is possible if a Clinton presidency is not very popular. That said, I have a pet theory that this generation is particularly susceptible to professional politicians because of the devaluing of liberal arts and civics education in general. The Internet also prioritizies national election trends while state and local politics outside of the cities continue to atrophy, often without coverage or record.

I never see Boomers watching Alex Jones, for example, but I know half a dozen people in my age and demographic who do. What caused that? I'd just like to think that in 50 years our grandkids will be trying to pry our fingers off the keyboard because many of us millennials regard the Internet with the same reverence that our parents and grandparents treated television and radio as a source of news.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Two days after a homemade bomb wounded 29 in lower Manhattan, the Republican presidential nominee decried Muslim refugees as a “cancer from within” and suggested that American law enforcement should racially profile Arab men, as they do in Israel (where many such men live under military occupation).

“Our local police, they know who a lot of these people are. They’re afraid to do anything about it because they don’t want to be accused of profiling,” Donald Trump told Fox & Friends Monday morning. “You know, in Israel they profile. They’ve done an unbelievable job, as good as you can do.”
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And any fears we had of Trump nailing this should be even further out the window.

This will work with his base but come on muslim refugees are a cancer? More appeals to fascism... I have faith that moderates aren't going to buy this

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/09/trump-after-nyc-bombs-we-need-racial-profiling.html
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
excelsiorlef said:
And any fears we had of Trump nailing this should be even further out the window.

This will work with his base but come on muslim refugees are a cancer? More appeals to fascism... I have faith that moderates aren't going to buy this

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/09/trump-after-nyc-bombs-we-need-racial-profiling.html
Click to expand...

Yep, he's going wayyyy too far into crazy town for this to actually help him. It'll be like the Orlando shooting. He'll overplay his hand, mess up, and end up losing support over it.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
Yep, he's going wayyyy too far into crazy town for this to actually help him. It'll be like the Orlando shooting. He'll overplay his hand, mess up, and end up losing support over it.
Click to expand...

Like this is insane

Trump went on to condemn President Obama for allowing Muslim refugees into the country, decrying the effort to resettle Syrians displaced by war as a “Trojan horse” whose true effect would be to fill America with ISIS agents.

“How they came into the country in the first place is beyond me,” Trump said of legal American residents whom he hopes to represent as president. “This is cancer from within. This is something that’s going to be so tough. They stay together. They’re plotting.”

...

“I heard — I didn’t see it — but I heard I was criticized for calling it correctly,” Trump told the Fox News morning crew. “But what I said was exactly correct. I should be a newscaster because I called it before the news.”
Click to expand...
 
B

Boke1879

Member
See Trump takes it way too far. You can be tough and compassionate. Clinton just needs to be Presidential in this respect.

The literal fact that Trump even suggests profiling is crazy.
 
S

Slayven

Member
I hate thinking like this, but doesn't the fact no one got killed and the guy got caught quick go against "America is losing" rhetoric?

Again i feel bad for reducing this down to political chess
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Slayven said:
I hate thinking like this, but doesn't the fact no one got killed and the guy got caught quick go against "America is losing" rhetoric?

Again i feel bad for reducing this down to political chess
Click to expand...

It's hard not to. But thankfully he was caught quickly and no one was seriously hurt
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
Dude was caught alive. Hopefully it's the end of it and/or the rest of the cell is neutralized. If nothing else happens this is an exemplary demonstration of how to handle incidents like this and will be a distant memory by November, regardless.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
I've taken for granted that Trump is too much of an idiot to properly capitalize on anything in this campaign.

Or anything in general looking at his failed businesses hey ohhh.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Guy was an Afghanistan born naturalized American. There is no connection at all to Syrian refugees and Trump needs to (and probably will be) called out on this blatant racism.
 
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