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PoliGAF 2016 |OT12| The last days of the Republic
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
- Status
Abstrusity
Member
Rubiobot won't last long, anyway.
I hope he loses his Senate seat this year -- he may well do so, since it's astronomically close. If he does, that's his political career.
excelsiorlef
Member
Not freaking out. I just want him to be completely shut down. No more living to see another day in politics. He makes me sick because even when he loses he wins by redefining what is acceptable for a Presidential candidate and what they can contribute to the overall discourse.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Really Yes. I wish Jake Tapper or Gloria Berger had asked Corey yesterday if he ever looked a women and told his mates he wanted to grab her by the pussy.
disastermouse
Banned
Angry Joe.
cartoon_soldier
Member
I need more opo opo
U'd think networks would be rushing to drop whatever they have after getting scooped
The washpo reporter who broke the tape story did say they are also working on something else
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
All this debate did was reinforce the view that if Hillary was running against a component Republican, she would be losing. Her email answers were terrible, her Bernie answers were terrible, and its amazing that with all of the ammo she has against Trump she cannot seal this.
disastermouse
Banned
She lied about whether she was out of administration when the Redline thing happened.
She really has no answer to "You've had thirty years and you haven't fixed anything" argument. I think that's Trump's strongest argument.
Re: Bernie being out of his element. Any candidate without Hillary's baggage could have clobbered Donald Trump in that debate. He looked like a whipped dog at the beginning. But she couldn't follow through! Attack him about taxes, "Those are loopholes your donors want." Attack him about sexual assault, "You helped attack women that spoke up about Bill." Attack him about Russia, "I don't know Putin, I just don't think it's wise to get into a war with Russia when they're attacking ISIS."
Any other Democratic candidate could have clobbered him. She couldn't. Too many don't believe anything she says and the slow drip of email leaks is killing her.
Would you vote for Obama again?
I don't see how the "you've had thirty years, why haven't you fixed everything" is a strong argument. It is predicated on the notion that Clinton was some all-powerful figure able to influence all areas of policy over that time. She was First Lady, then a senator, and then Secretary of State - she wasn't a dictator.
nature boy
Member
Cause the numbers game is cool to play:
The good news for her is that there is no such thing as a competent republican running to become president right now. The only person I can see people make a legit argument for is Kasich and even then he has issues. The republican field is absolutely horrendous. Lots of brain dead candidates who only look good on paper.
User 463088
Banned
Some things from the CNN poll:
Hillary won on who would best handle:
Economy-56/42
Terrorism-57/40
Immigration-58/41
Who seemed to be a stronger leader? Hillary-59/38
Was more honest and trustworthy? Hillary-54/37
Spent more time attacking opponent? Trump-38/16
Seemed to care more about the needs and questions of the audience? Hillary-67/21
Better addressed concerns about handling the office of President? Hillary-59/32
Answered questions more directly? Hillary-64/26
Has the temperament to be President? Hillary-64/27
Do you think Donald Trump's remarks in the video reflect his views on women or not?
Yes, reflect his views-59
No, do not reflect his views-37
She won the debate by 10 points among Independents. She won moderates by 40 points. The only group he did well with was, shock, non college educated whites.
Hillary won on who would best handle:
Economy-56/42
Terrorism-57/40
Immigration-58/41
Who seemed to be a stronger leader? Hillary-59/38
Was more honest and trustworthy? Hillary-54/37
Spent more time attacking opponent? Trump-38/16
Seemed to care more about the needs and questions of the audience? Hillary-67/21
Better addressed concerns about handling the office of President? Hillary-59/32
Answered questions more directly? Hillary-64/26
Has the temperament to be President? Hillary-64/27
Do you think Donald Trump's remarks in the video reflect his views on women or not?
Yes, reflect his views-59
No, do not reflect his views-37
She won the debate by 10 points among Independents. She won moderates by 40 points. The only group he did well with was, shock, non college educated whites.
metalslimer
Member
What? Her answer on her record was one of the strongest points of the night. Donald Trump did shitty in nearly every respect. Also if another Republican was running the Russians wouldn't be so interested in hacking this election.
Nothing is "killing" Clinton right now. The pussy files completely shut down what was left of Trump's campaign, and it only gets worse from here.
The bedwetting in here this morning really is ridiculous though. Trump literally said he was going to put Hillary Clinton in prison if he became President! That's Fascism 101.
This debate was just a speedbump on the path to new oppo and an easy win for Clinton.
excelsiorlef
Member
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Do you know why it's difficult to respond to the ridiculous assertion that Hillary hasn't done anything for 30 years? Because while it takes Trump two seconds to mouth off that one line, it'd take several minutes for Hillary to defend herself with a substantive answer. It's such bullshit. Not to mention she consistently goes over her accomplishments and the things she's done in her career, but that's quickly forgotten when five minutes later Trump is claiming she hasn't done anything for 30 years. It's ridiculous.
A simple "yes, I have," won't suffice as a response, even if she had explained her achievements minutes before. She'd have to constantly explain them over and over again.
Donald Jerkoff Trump hurls so many false accusations at you that if you try to address any one of them head on, you'll drown from the rest. Therefore I think it's best to let him run his mouth and then when it's your turn to speak, you defend yourself appropriately and focus on the question, which Hillary did.
The thing is, it isn't. It sounds good, on the surface, sure. But practically, even just as a Secretary of State (not senator or FLOTUS), she negotiated (or guided) a non-proliferation treaty with Russia, pushed sanctions on Iran, helped Burma (sorry, Myanmar) move towards democracy, and lessened East Asian countries reliance on China.
Oh, yeah, and there was the Copenhagen environmental treaty.
cartoon_soldier
Member
The problem with not delivering the knock out punch is that allowing a decent performance means Trump base rallies to him.
If Hillary had knocked him out our chances of House takeover will go up even more.
If Hillary had knocked him out our chances of House takeover will go up even more.
User 463088
Banned
Guys, don't engage.
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
Possibly but they have such an enormous issue with the tea party that anyone who could have probably been a good candidate....lets just say hypothetically Bush/Rubio/Kasich/whatever.......can't drop low enough to make them happy. Its a good firewall for the dems.
But....can we just elect Obama again?
It's already sealed.
shinra-bansho
Member
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Killing her? What planet are you guys on? She's winning lol Also what makes you think another Democrat doesn't have skeleton in their closets?
You don't think the gop would have dug dirt on Bernie like they tried with Obama? Bernie is a socialist! That's all we would would've heard about till the election.
User 463088
Banned
: sigh :
Trump's base is not going anywhere. They are never going anywhere. They love him if he wins, loses or takes a shit on stage. No one should give two shits about his fucking base. Literally, the basket of deplorables will follow him to hell in a hand basket. There was absolutely positively no way or reason to "knock him out" last night. Like, she did exactly what she needed to do by any conceivable metric OTHER than bed wetting.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Her answer to the 30 year question was good I think. Could have been better, but it hit the point that she has done a lot of work for women and children her whole life.
User 463088
Banned
cartoon_soldier
Member
I mean more Republicans would have jumped ship which would have had a cascading effect.
excelsiorlef
Member
The base is never the problem, the base was always going to rally.
Stop worrying about the base... it's everyone else that's important.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Adam, nothing can please some of the guys in here.
Trump could be six feet in the dirt (Which is the current state of his campaign), no other person on the POTUS ticket than Clinton, and you would still hear the concern trolling or just insane bedwetting.
Also ignore the obvious Trump supporters, not worth the process your body takes to exchange the air to CO2 to try and reason with someone supporting a fucking fascist, sexist, racist, idiot piece of shit.
Trump could be six feet in the dirt (Which is the current state of his campaign), no other person on the POTUS ticket than Clinton, and you would still hear the concern trolling or just insane bedwetting.
Also ignore the obvious Trump supporters, not worth the process your body takes to exchange the air to CO2 to try and reason with someone supporting a fucking fascist, sexist, racist, idiot piece of shit.
metalslimer
Member
Look Republicans have still unendorsed him and they can't take that back. The fact that now he didn't complete die last night puts the entire party in a horrible position because those who distance from Trump will get the full wrath of the base.
And if there is more oppo as everyone seems to agree it will be devastating when another is released and the base is fully on board. That's all Trump did last long, rally the base.
You don't get that she can't shake his base. What could Hillary have said that would make the deplorables abandon him?
I want one even idea that would dissuade the human detritus that is the trump campaign base.
Irrelevant joe Scarborough talks about the base being rallied by trump prosecuting a 20 year old argument against bill. Do you think this group can be persuaded by Satan incarnate?
This is high fantasy. There's no knock out punch because trump is not a boxer.
There is nothing Hillary could have done to rend asunder Trump from his base in that debate. Nothing.
I get the temptation to think that every single Trump fiasco should dock him like, five points or something. Attack Curiel, down to 40. Attack the Khans, down to 35. Implode in the first debate, down to 30. Pussy grab, down to 25.
Doesn't work like that. That horrible little group he's got supporting him won't ever let him go unless he does something I can't even fathom.
I get the temptation to think that every single Trump fiasco should dock him like, five points or something. Attack Curiel, down to 40. Attack the Khans, down to 35. Implode in the first debate, down to 30. Pussy grab, down to 25.
Doesn't work like that. That horrible little group he's got supporting him won't ever let him go unless he does something I can't even fathom.
teruterubozu
Member
When has there ever been a famous "knockout punch" in a presidential debate? I can't think of one. It just doesn't happen.
shinra-bansho
Member
They could re-endorse him. It would be hilarious. And actually hurt more than anything else, because... what a joke of a party.
Exactly. It's not possible to deliver a 'knock out punch' against Trump in a debate. It can't happen - the guy will lie and bluster through *anything*. There's nothing she can do to deliver a knock out, and she doesn't need to. She stays calm, unflustered, and acts like the next president whilst he rants, raves, stalks, glowers and threatens her.
There is nothing on heaven, hell or earth that would stop him getting 35 to 40% of the vote. It's a sad, terrible shame but it is what it is. It doesn't matter in the long run because you can't win off that.
There are no insiders or outsiders here. Being welcoming is a requirement of communities, not a suggestion.
In future, if you have a complaint about other posters, feel free to contact a moderator.
shinra-bansho
Member
Look he could quite literally grab her vagina on live TV and like 35-40% of your dumb country would still vote for him.
Roland_Gunner
Member
Yes, having a better debate performance would produce a better result. Aside from a couple of people making the way too cute argument that Clinton intentionally could have done better to stay in the race, who disputes that? Thing is having someone spew misinformation and random charges like Trump does is dis-orientating. Clinton could have done better but she still got a small win according to all of the post-debate polls and has a 5+ point lead in the race.
I've had some time to process the debate... and I'm fucking furious. This managed to make me hate Trump more than I thought I already did. How the fuck do you debate someone who lies about everything? That, bringing all of Bills accusers, and threatening to throw her in jail has me fuming.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Wong. Absolutely wong. It'd be higher than that.
nature boy
Member
"But I won the polls with tens of thousands of people! And I don't bleach or acid wash my emails!"
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Yep.
This is a rhetorical battle, not real one. There are no "complete" victories because those that disagree are still standing after.
That'd be asking for another Ted Cruz type situation.
Point taken.
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