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PoliGAF 2016 |OT12| The last days of the Republic
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
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They really let him have it on the tapes and Syria questions. Asking him three times if he has committed the acts he claims he has in the tapes because he kept avoiding the question, and on his non-answer about Aleppo instead of just letting him off.He really thoroughly demonstrated he knows absolutely nothing about military strategy on the latter.
benjipwns
Banned
SNEAK ATTACK
whyamihere
Banned
I don't think her speech answer was good.
I'm also surprised, and happy, that the general consensus was that he flubbed the first 20-30 minutes of the debate. I assumed the opposite.
I'm also surprised, and happy, that the general consensus was that he flubbed the first 20-30 minutes of the debate. I assumed the opposite.
While I don't think Clinton handled the question well, this is the speech excerpt she was asked about.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Fox had the headline earlier this morning about this, and it was "Pence: Still the VP Nominee" and everyone was just so happy about it. And I'm sitting here thinking how embarrassing of a headline that is to read.
And I don't normally watch Fox. It was in the doctor's office.
nature boy
Member
Wallace isn't O'Reilly or Hannity, he's not going to coach him and half-answer the question he's asking.
Right, she could make this case, but she doesn't, and really I think she should. I think it is much better for her if she can plausibly explain not releasing the speeches and this public/private thing as "the country not being ready" for stuff that 90% of her voters are totally fine with. You've got to set and advocate achievable goals and not get distracted letting the Republicans yell about imaginary socialists, even though you expect and hope that these practical steps will eventually lead somewhere once people see that it's actually pretty good and not-socialism. Instead she's just letting people draw their own conclusions about why she's got a public and private position and what she was so worried about in these speeches.
Yeah, and this is pretty different both from what she suggested in the debate and what I think is the easy "the country isn't ready for UHC" explanation. I think there's basically no way to explain to voters why they don't want total transparency when it comes to political compromise.
metalslimer
Member
Only in the sense that Trump probably stopped the defections. I haven't seen a single argument that he won on policy.
Also, it's really ironic that Clinton's answer on the Lincoln thing was so bad is exactly the reason you can't be explicitly honest with people. She couldn't fit her full answer into a soundbite for people to digest.
Not that this is a problem, but it's because you most likely were focusing on her with a razor thin lens. She didn't give an answer you deemed "good" so she was terrible. Trump was atrocious to start the debate.
I doubt her speech answer even gets talked about at length. Especially when her opponent said he'd jail her if elected.
nature boy
Member
Stopped the bleeding, still in critical condition.
Their polls show that Clinton won. He played to his base. They'll love what he did, but consensus seems he didn't do anything to move the needle or change trajectory.
My wife was really pissed after the debate. The way he paraded out his p***y shields beforehand, the way he talked to the Muslim woman, just his whole bullying stalkerish body language. One thing that really irked her was how he tried to drag Michelle Obama down in the mud too. She wanted Hillary to just bury him right on the stage. At one point she said, "fuck going high, end this nightmare."
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
But every single answer has been devoid of any meaningful content. He rambles like an idiot.
There was a rumor floating the other day about it.
My mistake--I thought I read elsewhere it was foreign-policy based.
People keep saying this, but Chris Wallace was fantastic in the primary debates. Easily the best moderator they had, and he wasn't letting Trump get away with anything.
It's really not his job to fact check. I'm just hoping he'll push back a little. Don't let him spew bullshit without him following it up.
sazzy
Member
his wiki page says that he's a REGISTERED democrat for practical reasons, so that he can participate in local politics in DC
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I just don't trust anyone from Fox News.
Yes, it could have been more concise to come off more easily to voters.
That came closer to the beginning of the debate, right? She was just getting constantly blasted by a belligerent, aggressive opponent.
Islamaphobia question. Trump's answer - we need more islamaphobia
Bring the country together question. Trump sees black man,, answer - you people live in hell with no education.
benjipwns
Banned
lol forgot this undecided voters sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyZUKAaxGrs
It may not feel like it right now, but there were two starkly different people on stage last night. Good people can see that difference. Crazy people see what they want to see in the other person. Trump didn't move the needle, if anything his predatory body language turned off women for good. Let him do this thing, it will only send him farther down the tubes.
That your wife was pissed after the debate is good! It shows Trump didn't do his job.
cooljeanius
Member
Clinton won, but by less than the first one, so people are just already extrapolating the trendlines to the "what if" scenario of having a zillion more debates where the trend lines eventually cross ending up in a Trump victory.
The public/private thing is pretty straightforward. It's literally how non fascist or dictatorial systems work. If you have to build consensus (within your own party and potentially with members of the other party) to legislate you're always going to have a ideal position and a line in the sand position: i.e the positions and compromises you'll accept to get the substantive part of your legislation through. Which part is public, the ideal or the line in the sand, is really a function of public support for your position.
i.e Hillary's ideal may be a Canadian style healthcare system but her pragmatic position is that that's not going to get through so the best she can aim for a public option with a reformed Obamacare marketplace.
The public don't really do nuance though, they conceptually understand it but when a politician shows it they're considered either weak or dishonest.
excelsiorlef
Member
These quote unquote people LOL
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
KENN BONE ON CNN
STILL IN RED SWEATER
STILL IN RED SWEATER
I need that next oppo-drop.
It doesn't need to happen yet. She's going to campaign the next couple of days. If anything drops this week it'll probably be Wed or Thurs.
We have 4 weeks until election day, and I'd say 3 weeks at most to make any oppo dump effective. Something will come out I'm sure each week.
I really sincerely hope there is footage of Trump saying the N word and I hope someone gets it. You drop that shit before the last debate and I don't think there is any coming back from that.
banefirelord
Banned
I said it last night and I'll say it again: in the first 20 minutes, the man sounded like a shitty text-to-speech program being fed Lorem Ipsum filler text. He got into a groove later, but his start was one of the worst, flattest public speaking performances I've seen since middle school book reports.
Why is this ken bone thing a thing?
titiklabingapat
Member
I hope no new oppo drops until almost the end of the week. Let the tape from last Friday fester for a couple more days please and give it a few weekday news cycle. If a new oppo drops soon, we'd be all desensitized by election day, normalizing Trump's deplorable behavior. You already see it to a certain extent this election cycle.
benjipwns
Banned
HE MEMORIZED HIS QUESTION INSTEAD OF READING IT
One person interviewed on NPR today was complaining about the lack of policy. I'm sorry, I can't agree.
Hillary's answers are dense with policy, she even breaks them down by numbered ideas to make them more digestible by the American people.
Her health care response, Syria, bringing the country together, and supreme court answer stick out to me, especially the latter where she hit on preserving Roe v Wade, Voting Rights Act, repealing Citizens United, and respecting the 2nd Amendment, but realizing there is more we can do.
In contrast to Trump whose answer on healthcare was repeal the Affordable Care Act and remove the lines between states so insurance companies can compete, when asked to elaborate could not even go further.
Hillary's answers are dense with policy, she even breaks them down by numbered ideas to make them more digestible by the American people.
Her health care response, Syria, bringing the country together, and supreme court answer stick out to me, especially the latter where she hit on preserving Roe v Wade, Voting Rights Act, repealing Citizens United, and respecting the 2nd Amendment, but realizing there is more we can do.
In contrast to Trump whose answer on healthcare was repeal the Affordable Care Act and remove the lines between states so insurance companies can compete, when asked to elaborate could not even go further.
metalslimer
Member
Ken Bone seems like a nice guy. Shame a lot of the internet seems to be making fun of him. There's no way I believe he is actually undecided. He had one of the best questions of the night.
nature boy
Member
As expected:
Nothing will really change, GOP in total paralysis.
Nothing will really change, GOP in total paralysis.
GutsOfThor
Member
What are the odds of the republican party coming back to him only to be destroyed in the blast of the next tape drop?
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I agree that Hillary did what she needed to and has, barring accident, sewn up the presidency.
Of course it could go better with a historical massive landslide in popular vote, but that's not in Hillary's hands because it relies on fracturing the Republican base between the Trumpists and the anti-Trumpists - and that is very much down to what the Republican party does next and what it thinks are its short term and long term benefits. It depends on ballot-splitting and no-shows, and for each Republican up for election it is high risk whatever they do. The chances of them taking co-ordinated action across the country are near as dammit zero, so I reckon Trump will safely get 35-40% of the vote. With a miracle it could dip into the high twenties, but that's not a miracle that the GOP would willingly engineer for Hillary.
BrokenFiction
Member
The Bone!
The people who un-endorsed can't just come crawling back now. The GOP are screwed right now. Trump played to the base. The base they need to win. I have no doubts more damaging oppo is coming.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Rockin good news.
banefirelord
Banned
I hope The Bone doesn't wind up being convinced by Trump and breaking all our hearts.
benjipwns
Banned
NBC/SurveyMonkey
LA Times/USC Tracking:
Code:
Clinton 46, Trump 41, Johnson 8, Stein 3LA Times/USC Tracking:
Code:
Clinton 43, Trump 46- Status
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