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[Poodlestrike]

I mean, wouldn't this also come with increased transparency and accountability? Plus with all the anti-establishment fervor among both parties it seems like it wouldn't be that bad of a move.

We don't want transparency here. This is the place we want sneaky, underhanded scheming and the building of machinery to facilitate that. Democratic voters have proven that they have no stomach for that sort of thing, so they really ought not be allowed to see the sausage made.

 

[shinra-bansho]

She didn't lose because she's a woman, she lost because she wasn't a good candidate and this wasn't the right year for a bad candidate to win. I'm sure the right woman could win at the right time.

Do you really think that her gender wasn't ultimately a net deficit? When he gained +5 margin with men?
Who and when though?
There's never a right time.
She probably isn't even born yet.

 

[excelsiorlef]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=223731017&postcount=11977

A good post to go out on.

 

[royalan]

I mean, wouldn't this also come with increased transparency and accountability? Plus with all the anti-establishment fervor among both parties it seems like it wouldn't be that bad of a move.

I disagree.

At some point, at some some level, our party needs to be grounded by experienced people who know what the fuck they're doing.

Not loudmouthed, "anti-establishment" lone wolves.

Let charisma guide the Dems on the front lines. Give me experienced wonks to keep the machinery going.

Let's not turn every level into a purity/popularity contest.

Fuck, THIS is what I was most afraid of. That a defeat of the Dems at this time would legitimize the uprising of a leftist tea party. And we're seeing it now.

 

[pigeon]

I disagree.

At some point, at some some level, our party needs to be grounded by experienced people who know what the fuck they're doing.

Not loudmouthed, "anti-establishment" lone wolves.

Let charisma guide the Dems on the front line. Give me experienced wonks keeping the machinery going.

Let's not turn every level into a purity/popularity contest.

Fuck, THIS is what I was most afraid of. That a defeat of the Dems at this time would legitimize the uprising of a leftist tea party. And we're seeing it now.

Yup. This is my greatest fear.

It is not time to destroy the Democratic Party.

We lost by 1% in three states.

This is only apocalyptic because the enemy is apocalyptic.

 

[Pixieking]

He did something very perverse and got rewarded for it. In a way, I hate him more than Trump. At least I know the latter's mind won't be able to weather the weight of leading a country.

He's going to go to his grave knowing more than he ever wanted about the evil of the world. At some point, it'll dawn on him that men, women and children are the same wherever they come from, and that he's responsible for cruelty, death and destruction. Even if he doesn't build a wall, deport Hispanics, hell, even if he doesn't gut the Paris agreement or Iran deals, the President of the United States is never loved by everyone, never gets to make easy choices, never gets to have a real day of pure joy, and facilitates death by just being in power.

Smile, dear friends - unless he's played everyone for a fool, he'll be a broken man by this time next year, even if he doesn't show it to the world. This is Donald Trump's hell.

 

[kirblar]

Yup. This is my greatest fear.

It is not time to destroy the Democratic Party.

We lost by 1% in three states.

This is only apocalyptic because the enemy is apocalyptic.

Exactly

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

I disagree.

At some point, at some some level, our party needs to be grounded by experienced people who know what the fuck they're doing.

Not loudmouthed, "anti-establishment" lone wolves.

Let charisma guide the Dems on the front lines. Give me experienced wonks to keep the machinery going.

Let's not turn every level into a purity/popularity contest.

Fuck, THIS is what I was most afraid of. That a defeat of the Dems at this time would legitimize the uprising of a leftist tea party. And we're seeing it now.

As people have pointed out, the Tea Party ultimately only helped Republicans. I get where you're coming from with the experience angle though, that's why I want it to be Dean. WIth the points you guys make I definitely agree it wouldn't be worth the risks. How do we stop it from changing then? Do we actively argue against it or just wait and see?

 

[excelsiorlef]

I disagree.

At some point, at some some level, our party needs to be grounded by experienced people who know what the fuck they're doing.

Not loudmouthed, "anti-establishment" lone wolves.

Let charisma guide the Dems on the front lines. Give me experienced wonks to keep the machinery going.

Let's not turn every level into a purity/popularity contest.

Fuck, THIS is what I was most afraid of. That a defeat of the Dems at this time would legitimize the uprising of a leftist tea party. And we're seeing it now.

They'll be in for a world of hurt come primary if they get their way...

Because good luck getting a green tea leftie through the proces especially if they do what's being suggested and focus primarily on getting rust belt whites back.

As people have pointed out, the Tea Party ultimately only helped Republicans. I get where you're coming from with the experience angle though, that's why I want it to be Dean. WIth the points you guys make I definitely agree it wouldn't be worth the risks. How do we stop it from changing then? Do we actively argue against it or just wait and see?

The tea party is the core republican base.

A green tea party full of Sanders clones or whatever it is you want is not the Democratic base.

 

[kirblar]

As people have pointed out, the Tea Party ultimately only helped Republicans. I get where you're coming from with the experience angle though, that's why I want it to be Dean. WIth the points you guys make I definitely agree it wouldn't be worth the risks. How do we stop it from changing then? Do we actively argue against it or just wait and see?

It helped them become crazed lunatics where every policy is destructive and wrong.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The Tea Party controls the Presidency, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, and nearly half of all state political systems. If I get to chose between being the leftist establishment or the leftist Tea Party, I sure as fuck know who I want to be. Mass movements win elections.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The Tea Party controls the Presidency, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, and nearly half of all state political systems. If I get to chose between being the leftist establishment or the leftist Tea Party, I sure as fuck know who I want to be. Mass movements win elections.

And if they run a campaign the same way Sanders did message wise they'll never make it out of the primary...

 

[Pixieking]

Look at the UK, and Corbyn/The Labour Party.

I do believe that's your Leftist Tea Party.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

The tea party is the core republican base.

A green tea party full of Sanders clones or whatever it is you want is not the Democratic base.

I don't want it I'm just discussing the possibility of it. You guys are educating me.

It helped them become crazed lunatics where every policy is destructive and wrong.

Fair point, I just meant in terms of electoral success.

I haven't slept much since Tuesday.

 

[kirblar]

The Tea Party controls the Presidency, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, and nearly half of all state political systems. If I get to chose between being the leftist establishment or the leftist Tea Party, I sure as fuck know who I want to be. Mass movements win elections.

And Sanders does not have a mass movement.

The Dems just won the popular vote. The problem is that we have to fight a margin we shouldn't' have to.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The far left sure are doing great everywhere. They know how to get organised. And work to and get things done. And they've got the money to back their extensive well-planned effort. Oh. Wait.

 

[titiklabingapat]

My only fear with the Left Tea Party is the Corbynization of the left. They radicalize just a little too much and they end up being a smaller minority than before.

 

[pigeon]

Look at the UK, and Corbyn/The Labour Party.

I do believe that's your Leftist Tea Party.

The far left sure are doing great everywhere. They know how to get organised. And work to and get things done. And they've got the money to back their extensive well-planned effort. Oh. Wait.

Yeah, I mean, Crab, for somebody so intelligent you are really jumping past a whole lot of actually available evidence here in order to get to the conclusion you like best.

 

[royalan]

The Tea Party controls the Presidency, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, and nearly half of all state political systems. If I get to chose between being the leftist establishment or the leftist Tea Party, I sure as fuck know who I want to be. Mass movements win elections.

But the Tea Party proposes things that not only liberals find abhorrent, but that most Republicans find abhorrent (but will vote for anyway because party-above-country).

I'm not AT ALL ok with the minority of a minority having so much power of the country as a whole. On the right OR the left. We should not be ok with this.

I absolutely do not want to see a tea party on the left.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

And if they run a campaign the same way Sanders did message wise they'll never make it out of the primary...

If the Democratic primary had been as crowded as the Republican one, I'm pretty confident Sanders would have won - the establishment vote would have been split between Biden and Clinton or whoever and Sanders would have done what Trump did. There's little point in relitigating the primary now insofar as that Sanders is too old to run, but he does give us a model of what the 2020 nominee will look like.

 

[Debirudog]

The far left sure are doing great everywhere. They know how to get organised. And work to and get things done. And they've got the money to back their extensive well-planned effort. Oh. Wait.

This. I refuse to have the democrat party become the labor party.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

But the Tea Party proposes things that not only liberals find abhorrent, but that most Republicans find abhorrent (but will vote for anyway because party-above-country).

I'm not AT ALL ok with the minority of a minority having so much power of the country as a whole. On the right OR the left. We should not be ok with this.

I absolutely do not want to see a tea party on the left.

I don't even think this is true. The Tea Party is the majority of the Republicans at this point. Just as, I suspect, 'burn it down' Democrats will be shortly. A lot of people went with Clinton because she was promised to be the safe candidate that could definitely win. They're not going to be in the mood to try that again.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

So it's back to the center, then? I'm totally fine with that assuming that existing gay rights and abortion hold long enough, but that's a big assumption.

 

[kirblar]

If the Democratic primary had been as crowded as the Republican one, I'm pretty confident Sanders would have won - the establishment vote would have been split between Biden and Clinton or whoever and Sanders would have done what Trump did. There's little point in relitigating the primary now insofar as that Sanders is too old to run, but he does give us a model of what the 2020 nominee will look like.

The 2020 nominee will not look like a loser whose demographics are only going to get worse.

 

[Pixieking]

The far left sure are doing great everywhere. They know how to get organised. And work to and get things done. And they've got the money to back their extensive well-planned effort. Oh. Wait.

Interesting point raised by this: What's the money situation going to be like in 4 years for whoever is running? Pro Hillary PACs, Wall Street, Silicon Valley shoved millions of dollars into a campaign that lost to obvious hate-filled rants. You can argue that WWC aren't racist, but the campaign ads were Love v Hate - how does this affect campaign contributions and financial backing?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Look at the UK, and Corbyn/The Labour Party.

I do believe that's your Leftist Tea Party.

You'll have to excuse me right now as I'm on mobile due to being at work, but I think I am going to make a long post detailing why Corbyn and Sanders are more different than they are similar and why those differences are so important. This comparison gets made a lot and I think it is an exceptionally poor one.

 

[Dominican Power]

Fuck Ernie Johnson for not voting for anyone.

 

[kirblar]

Interesting point raised by this: What's the money situation going to be like in 4 years for whoever is running? Pro Hillary PACs, Wall Street, Silicon Valley shoved millions of dollars into a campaign that lost to obvious hate-filled rants. You can argue that WWC aren't racist, but the campaign ads were Love v Hate - how does this affect campaign contributions and financial backing?

You saw what happened in NC.

This is a national scale.

 

[Pixieking]

You'll have to excuse me right now as I'm on mobile due to being at work, but I think I am going to make a long post detailing why Corbyn and Sanders are more different than they are similar and why those differences are so important. This comparison gets made a lot and I think it is an exceptionally poor one.

Corbyn and Sanders may be different, but I don't think the base is. Different leaders, same ideas, purity tests and all.

 

[excelsiorlef]

If the Democratic primary had been as crowded as the Republican one, I'm pretty confident Sanders would have won - the establishment vote would have been split between Biden and Clinton or whoever and Sanders would have done what Trump did. There's little point in relitigating the primary now insofar as that Sanders is too old to run, but he does give us a model of what the 2020 nominee will look like.

Ok this is literally based on some alternate universe.

Biden would have killed Sanders off stupid early...

Trump won because everyone else fucking sucked. Neither Clinton (in the primary) or Biden suck...

I mean this is absurd logic that I honestly can't believe you are actually putting this forward. Biden would have taken from Sanders as much if not more than he would have Clinton.

Dude you have no idea who the base of this fucking party is...

 

[shinra-bansho]

So it's back to the center, then? I'm totally fine with that assuming that existing gay rights and abortion hold long enough, but that's a big assumption.

I'm kind of confused because I thought people were talking about going back to the centre and hushing up on the minority blocs. To get rural and WC whites.

Now it's a left Tea Party.

Maybe it's the left White Tea Party. I guess.

 

[Debirudog]

You'll have to excuse me right now as I'm on mobile due to being at work, but I think I am going to make a long post detailing why Corbyn and Sanders are more different than they are similar and why those differences are so important. This comparison gets made a lot and I think it is an exceptionally poor one.

I was going to actually ask you of this because I can't help but see the comparisons.

 

[royalan]

I don't even think this is true. The Tea Party is the majority of the Republicans at this point. Just as, I suspect, 'burn it down' Democrats will be shortly. A lot of people went with Clinton because she was promised to be the safe candidate that could definitely win. They're not going to be in the mood to try that again.

Good luck finding a burn-it-all down candidate in the US who'll be able to attract minorities en masse.

Won't happen. We're too guided and informed by our history.

 

[Officerrob]

Do you really think that her gender wasn't ultimately a net deficit? When he gained +5 margin with men?
Who and when though?
There's never a right time.
She probably isn't even born yet.

The woman who eventually becomes president has to have the right amount of charisma and message to the point where people can look past her sex. Basically a female Obama

 

[excelsiorlef]

I don't even think this is true. The Tea Party is the majority of the Republicans at this point. Just as, I suspect, 'burn it down' Democrats will be shortly. A lot of people went with Clinton because she was promised to be the safe candidate that could definitely win. They're not going to be in the mood to try that again.

Yeah you really do have no idea who the base of this party is...

Spoiler

It's not white lefties....

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

I'm kind of confused because I thought people were talking about going back to the centre and hushing up on the minority blocs. To get rural and WC whites.

Now it's a left Tea Party.

Maybe it's the left White Tea Party. I guess.

I was thinking like, economically centrist and not socially. The electorate at large has proven to be pretty mobile on social issues like gay marriage. I just meant more economic populist and less of an emphasis on economic regulation.

 

[Debirudog]

burn it all down just scares me over and over. What we have is good...it could be better but good.

 

[Officerrob]

The Tea Party controls the Presidency, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, and nearly half of all state political systems. If I get to chose between being the leftist establishment or the leftist Tea Party, I sure as fuck know who I want to be. Mass movements win elections.

How about we prove the far left can actually win some fucking elections first? You know, like the Tea Party that so many Bernie supporters love to cite all of a sudden...

 

[shinra-bansho]

Winfrey 2020.
She can give people BEES and they still love her.

 

[Dany]

Winfrey 2020.

Kander

 

[shinra-bansho]

Kander

You all just fall for a pretty face with a big gun. Maybe when he actually wins something.

 

[Suikoguy]

You all just fall for a pretty face with a big gun. Maybe when he actually wins something.

We just elected an ugly face with a tiny gun.

 

[royalan]

Interesting point raised by this: What's the money situation going to be like in 4 years for whoever is running? Pro Hillary PACs, Wall Street, Silicon Valley shoved millions of dollars into a campaign that lost to obvious hate-filled rants. You can argue that WWC aren't racist, but the campaign ads were Love v Hate - how does this affect campaign contributions and financial backing?

This is why I need Hillary to take a spa month (or few months), lick her wounds, and get back in the fight.

She'll never again run for office, but that's ok. Regardless of the haters, Hillary proved she has millions of Democrats who genuinely adore her. She is a pillar of the party whether Bernie stans like it or not. But, more importantly than that, the term "Clinton Loyalist" exists for a reason. Hillary Clinton has spent decades building very valuable relationships. She and Bill will be absolutely integral to fundraising for the Democratic party. Because crowdfunding won't be an option for everyone (shit, it's not even an option for Bernie these days. How's the Our Revolution PAC doing again?).

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

Aside from lack of name recognition is there anything wrong with Terry McAulife?

 

[A Link to the Past]

So hey, is it the case that there are still millions of votes in California to count?

Aside from lack of name recognition is there anything wrong with Terry McAulife?

Who?

Spoiler

I'm just kidding

 

[Officerrob]

Aside from lack of name recognition is there anything wrong with Terry McAulife?

If you want to name a person who actually has the "Clinton stink" on them, it's Terry McAuliffe. Terry is a die hard loyal Clinton foot soldier

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Aside from lack of name recognition is there anything wrong with Terry McAulife?

What does he offer that Clinton didn't?

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

What does he offer that Clinton didn't?

Less baggage and higher WCW appeal? We just can't keep saying we don't have anyone for 2020 we've gotta consider the options we have until better ones show up.

 

[Officerrob]

Less baggage and higher WCW appeal? We just can't keep saying we don't have anyone for 2020 we've gotta consider the options we have until better ones show up.

McAuliffe isn't an option. He's a shitty campaigner, has an awkward personality, and he's basically an extended member of the Clinton family

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Less baggage and higher WCW appeal? We just can't keep saying we don't have anyone for 2020 we've gotta consider the options we have until better ones show up.

McAuliffe was the guy saying "don't worry Clinton is just lying about TPP to win votes"

If the goal is getting the Rust Belt back, he's a terrible choice.