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[Blader]

It's one thing to have a scandal as a candidate. He was a private citizen, these scandals were in the past, when he didn't control anything and had no power.

On the other hand, a scandal in the White House would carry much more weight. He's the leader of the free world now, and so scandals can no longer be brushed aside as nothing because each of his new scandals are now directly influencing America.

If he clearly violates the law and does something that would get him impeached, there's no much a GOP congress can do. To not prosecute a criminal president due to partisan politics would hurt them greatly in elections.

I think, because the GOP has been doing whatever they want and saying whatever and gaining seats the last 8 years, that we forget that America holds the president and his party responsible. They always do. Bad presidents and ineffective leadership get punished in midterms and re-elections. Trump cannot blame anyone but Trump or the Republicans for his failures. He has no escape from the blame now.

I wish I was as confident as you. But Bill and Bush were both re-elected in even bigger margins despite scandals, real or imagined. And partisanship and cult of personality-ism has grown to such a disgusting degree that the idea of saner heads prevailing feels depressingly less realistic - best evidenced by the fact that Donald Trump is our next fucking president!

Basically my fear is that the country is too dumb now -- or just dumb enough -- to hold Trump or the GOP accountable anymore. They've both been rewarded handsomely the last few elections for all of their gross misconduct and behavior.

 

[Hyperactivity]

So I have a question about the Iran deal

Even if Trump fucks it up it up on the usa end, that doesn't matter, because the EU and other sanctioning countries were always what actually hurt iran

Just don't want another ahmedinijaf type to win the next "election"

 

[Zukkoyaki]

I wish this myth that Bush was hated in his first term would go away. His presidency wasn't a train wreck until his second term.

 

[tuffy]

If the GOP infighting worsens and a Trump scandal is severe enough, there's a nonzero chance that he could be ousted. There's also a nonzero chance that Trump's unhealthy lifestyle catches up with him over the next four years. Or maybe he'll just declare his presidency a success after four years and choose not to run again.

But none of those things can be counted on for certain, so it's best to assume he'll still be around and have some sort of plan to defeat a reelection bid.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

So Dean Vs. Ellison for DNC chair? Ehhhhhh I like Ellison but I think Dean is what we need.

 

[thefro]

I wish I was as confident as you. But Bill and Bush were both re-elected in even bigger margins despite scandals, real or imagined. And partisanship and cult of personality-ism has grown to such a disgusting degree that the idea of saner heads prevailing feels depressingly less realistic - best evidenced by the fact that Donald Trump is our next fucking president!

Basically my fear is that the country is too dumb now -- or just dumb enough -- to hold Trump or the GOP accountable anymore. They've both been rewarded handsomely the last few elections for all of their gross misconduct and behavior.

There was a huge Republican wave election in 1994 against Clinton. They overplayed their hand after that and shut the government down and ran a mediocre candidate (Dole).

Bush had the "rally around the flag" moment after 9/11 and the Iraq War that propped up his popularity.

Trump is much less well-liked than either.

 

[Hyperactivity]

I wish this myth that Bush was hated in his first term would go away. His presidency wasn't a train wreck until his second term.

I know the iraq war got major protests

 

[Pyrokai]

Guys, I'm so afraid and depressed right now and I don't know what to do. Should I see a psychologist? I'm sure they are busier than ever right now, too........

I just can't snap out of it. I haven't been able to get any work done at my job since Wednesday. I'm periodically crying just thinking of the damage he's going to do to our country and the world.

The worst thing is that even if this only lasts 4 years, the 7-2 extreme right-wing Supreme Court is what's getting to me the most. Even if we elect a progressive Congress and President in 2020, we will still be completely screwed by the lasting impact of the Supreme Court shooting down everything they try to do. I mean, what are the chances of Ginsberg, Breyer, and Kennedy lasting four more years? The youngest of these is 78.

I hate to say it, but I wish one or more stepped down during Obama's term.

My entire future, which is already hanging by a thread with my failed career and crushing student debt, is almost assuredly ruined without any kind of social safety net.

This hurts more than anything in recent memory. Just as much as losing a loved one.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

don't worry peeps CNN is here is to help you with your grief

Cable news is poison, people.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

I know the iraq war got major protests

It did but there was still an air of benefit of the doubt back then. It took a couple of years for most of America to think, "WTF are we doing?"

 

[thefro]

I know the iraq war got major protests

Here's Bush's approval rating. Take out the 9/11, Iraq War, and "We got Saddam" bounces and you can guess where he'd be at.

Trump's going to be lucky if he starts at Bush 2nd term inauguration approval levels.

By the way, that big drop in August/September 2003 is when Dean rose to the head of the Democratic primary field.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The worst thing is that even if this only lasts 4 years, the 7-2 extreme right-wing Supreme Court is what's getting to me the most. Even if we elect a progressive Congress and President in 2020, we will still be completely screwed by the lasting impact of the Supreme Court shooting down everything they try to do. I mean, what are the chances of Ginsberg, Breyer, and Kennedy lasting four more years? The youngest of these is 78.

Without wanting to get too morbid, an 83 year old woman can expect to live another 7.9 years on average, and Ginsberg is in good health for age to the point she's probably going to perform above average. The Supreme Court is probably recoverable provided the Democrats win in 2020 and make Trump one term, and none of the judges face any unpredictable problems, which in fairness we should hope for anyway.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

It did but there was still an air of benefit of the doubt back then. It took a couple of years for most of America to think, "WTF are we doing?"

Trying to remember the tipping point. Was it the protests right before Katrina?

 

[Blader]

So I have a question about the Iran deal

Even if Trump fucks it up it up on the usa end, that doesn't matter, because the EU and other sanctioning countries were always what actually hurt iran

Just don't want another ahmedinijaf type to win the next "election"

The worry is that without US participation, the EU will feel much less pressure to continue those sanctions.

If the GOP infighting worsens and a Trump scandal is severe enough, there's a nonzero chance that he could be ousted. There's also a nonzero chance that Trump's unhealthy lifestyle catches up with him over the next four years. Or maybe he'll just declare his presidency a success after four years and choose not to run again.

But none of those things can be counted on for certain, so it's best to assume he'll still be around and have some sort of plan to defeat a reelection bid.

The bolded honestly seems like the likeliest option to me.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I wish this myth that Bush was hated in his first term would go away. His presidency wasn't a train wreck until his second term.

Yeah Bush got a great rally around the flag effect after 9/11. Pray nothing similar happens in the next four years (both for obvious humanitarian reasons and so Trump can't take advantage of it, but knowing him he'd probably escalate and blow it somehow)

I know the iraq war got major protests

Any war is probably going to get major protests, hell any controversial political act will. The public supported the war at first though and opposition to it didn't really become commonplace until it was clear we had no game plan there. I imagine Obama's "I don't support dumb wars" is the reigning philosophy here rather than any pacifist/isolationist beliefs by the majority of Americans.

Would be down for Trump impeachment/removal. Dems get Not Trump, GOP gets President Pence. Win/win (well we still lose but I'd rather deal with that)

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump is going to become the Republicans' bitch. If everyone keeps criticizing him and poking at him he's going to go nuts. If he goes crazy enough he could start losing a lot of support. Hillary is gone now and he'll have to try and find a new boogeyman, and that will be either the media or other Republicans.

I put the chances that he'll get impeached before the end of his 1st term at 50%.

The Republicans have nothing to lose, Pence would become president.

I've been thinking the same. I dunno about impeachment, but certainly very public fights, and possible House investigations if scandals break.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I wish this myth that Bush was hated in his first term would go away. His presidency wasn't a train wreck until his second term.

Every time Bush's presidency gets brought up (and 2004), I try to remind people. Nothing really negative happened his first term. He was super popular. The Patriot Act and the Iraq war were popular at the time. 9-11 gave him a huge boost in popularity and a mandate to do whatever he needed.

His second term was one of the worst terms of a president of all time, which seems to make people forget pretty much everything bad he did was in his second term.

If Bush was a one term president (for example, maybe if 9-11 never happened), he'd basically just be the GOP's version of Jimmy Carter. Not a great president, but good enough for the GOP. Just sort of mediocre.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

Here's Bush's approval rating. Take out the 9/11, Iraq War, and "We got Saddam" bounces and you can guess where he'd be at.

Trump's going to be lucky if he starts at Bush 2nd term inauguration approval levels.

By the way, that big drop in August/September 2003 is when Dean rose to the head of the Democratic primary field.

I wonder if his inauguration will be a shitshow. He might even get booed. Will there be violence? Imagine the injury to his pride and what that might set off. Imagine how he'd react to a "you lie!" moment at a SOTU.

 

[Pyrokai]

Without wanting to get too morbid, an 83 year old woman can expect to live another 7.9 years on average, and Ginsberg is in good health for age to the point she's probably going to perform above average. The Supreme Court is probably recoverable provided the Democrats win in 2020 and make Trump one term, and none of the judges face any unpredictable problems, which in fairness we should hope for anyway.

This is.....encouraging I think? But we'd also have to hope that Breyer and Kennedy are in similarly good health, and also willing to continue to serve.

 

[Hyperactivity]

The worry is that without US participation, the EU will feel much less pressure to continue those sanctions.



The bolded honestly seems like the likeliest option to me.

Well, that's the good thing, no? Now that the deal has been made, even if the USA tries to back out, it wouldnt involve all of the countries whose sanctions actually mattered.

Idk, it makes me happy that some parts of Obama's legacy will be safe

Like if Ginsburg and co manage 4 more years, then gay marriage is probably safe.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

We should also make sure Roberts remains in power. We might not like him, but do you want Trump picking the Chief Justice?

 

[Aaron Strife]

We should also make sure Roberts remains in power. We might not like him, but do you want Trump picking the Chief Justice?

Roberts will probably be around for a while. And yeah, I don't like him but he clearly at least has a conscience.

Kennedy, Breyer and Ginsburg need to hold out for four more years.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

This is.....encouraging I think? But we'd also have to hope that Breyer and Kennedy are in similarly good health, and also willing to continue to serve.

Look at actuarial tables and doing some quick math estimates, I make it about a 70% chance none of the liberal judges die in the next 4 years. That drops to 40% if you extend to 8 years. So yeah, you need a bit of luck, but let's keep our hopes up: all of the liberal judges are in reasonable shape.

I think this does stress how momentous the 2020 election is, though. If the Democrats can retake the presidency and at least some of the state legislatures, then they can recapture the supreme court AND control the redistricting process for the House. If Trump wins in 2020, then the Supreme Court is likely going to be conservative for decades after and the House irreparably gerrymandered.

 

[RustyNails]

We should also make sure Roberts remains in power. We might not like him, but do you want Trump picking the Chief Justice?

Isn't Roberts in his 60's? I think he'll be sticking around for couple more administrations.

 

[sazzy]

I like this man

 

[The Technomancer]

I like this man

I want Harry on the attack

Good shit

 

[gutter_trash]

Trump makes me miss Dubya,
wtf

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Look at actuarial tables and doing some quick math estimates, I make it about a 70% chance none of the liberal judges die in the next 4 years. That drops to 40% if you extend to 8 years. So yeah, you need a bit of luck, but let's keep our hopes up: all of the liberal judges are in reasonable shape.

I think this does stress how momentous the 2020 election is, though. If the Democrats can retake the presidency and at least some of the state legislatures, then they can recapture the supreme court AND control the redistricting process for the House. If Trump wins in 2020, then the Supreme Court is likely going to be conservative for decades after and the House irreparably gerrymandered.

I'd argue 2018 is just as important. Can at least stem the bleeding and key governorships to prevent more voter suppression. Let's face it, with a majority and Trump possibly tanking they will try their damndest to depress the vote.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Trump has a stroke, but keeps it secret to the public and stubbornly refuses to resign, and his wife is the de-facto president while he just signs the things she asks him to sign.

Pence takes the L

Considering history often seems to work on a loop, this seems entirely plausible.

 

[Suikoguy]

Trump has a stroke, but keeps it secret to the public and stubbornly refuses to resign, and his wife is the de-facto president while he just signs the things she asks him to sign.

Pence takes the L

Considering history often seems to work on a loop, this seems entirely plausible.

We don't have an reliable account of his health do we?

 

[Plinko]

Wow at that Harry Reid statement. It's going to be interesting to see what Harry does over the next 4 years.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I'd argue 2018 is just as important. Can at least stem the bleeding and key governorships to prevent more voter suppression. Let's face it, with a majority and Trump possibly tanking they will try their damndest to depress the vote.

2018 is defence, unfortunately. Not much of a chance to retake the senate. It's not a pleasant map.

 

[tuffy]

Trump makes me miss Dubya,
wtf

It's easy to forget just what a shitshow the Dubya administration was because Obama was so good at cleaning up the mess he left behind.

My hope is that no matter how dismal a Trump administration is, there'll be a better candidate in the future to fix what goes wrong.

 

[Totakeke]

Fuck Comey. Even if he did not actually affect the final result, he sure legitimized all this.

 

[lastflowers]

Takers say what they always say, but seems important that Trump did better than Romney among all racial groups, especially nonwhites

https://twitter.com/MattBruenig/status/797080611857059840

 

[Goodstyle]

Reid is a total scoundrel, but he's a valuable asset at this time. Sometimes we need a remorseless attack dog on our side.

 

[dramatis]

I wonder if his inauguration will be a shitshow. He might even get booed. Will there be violence? Imagine the injury to his pride and what that might set off. Imagine how he'd react to a "you lie!" moment at a SOTU.

Well, who do we expect to attend his inauguration?

 

[Plinko]

Just a reminder that Newt Gingrich back in June called for a new House Un-American Activities Committee to hunt "Islamic supremacists" in the US.

 

[Dierce]

Just a reminder that Newt Gingrich back in June called for a new House Un-American Activities Committee to hunt "Islamic supremacists" in the US.

They will go after anyone that criticizes trump. That we can be sure of.

 

[Suikoguy]

https://twitter.com/MattBruenig/status/797080611857059840

Gotta be careful basing any analysis entirely on exit data.
Exit data sucks normally, who knows how shitty it was this election.

 

[greatgeek]

Just a reminder that Newt Gingrich back in June called for a new House Un-American Activities Committee to hunt "Islamic supremacists" in the US.

Ellison would definitely be an object of this bullshit given his religion and history.

 

[mackaveli]

Fuck Comey. Even if he did not actually affect the final result, he sure legitimized all this.

It must have affected the final result. A 1% swing to Trump is a 1.3 million plus votes. 2% swing is about 2.6 million votes. 2.6 million votes / 50 states = 52,000 votes a state. Obviously you can't just average it but she only lost the 3 states by a total of 100,000 votes. So yeah it had an impact on the final result in my opinion. All the momentum we had was pretty much taken away from HRC by external forces and it turned out it was absolutely nothing.

Just pure garbage Comey is.

 

[sazzy]

Michael Moore was on Morning Joe today.

Apparently it was supposed to be a 7 minute segment but they ended up talking for 45 minutes. On air.

You guys should see this.

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/michael-moore-joins-wide-ranging-election-talk-806604867876

 

[IggyChooChoo]

Well, who do we expect to attend his inauguration?

If these initial protests are any indication, the inaugural protest will be massive. Not withstanding the fact that it's a metro area in the middle of three blue states that's packed with minorities, immigrants, and liberals. I bet the Trump suppprters who do show up will be ready to fight. The thought of how it could spiral out of control is terrifying, not to mention how a demagogue could spin it afterwards, and especially not to mention how this narcissist might react to his day of glory being ruined. And so, so many people show up to these things. I can't imagine what it would be like in a crowd that size where people on both sides were as angry as they both are.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I wonder when we'll get the final election results.

 

[KingV]

This is.....encouraging I think? But we'd also have to hope that Breyer and Kennedy are in similarly good health, and also willing to continue to serve.

Ginsberg is a 2x cancer survivor. Im not sure what the textbook definition of good health is... But it's probably not that.

 

[CyclopsRock]

One positive is that Gingrich was always very pro-manned space flight. Of course, it'll gut the earth-science budget from NASA to pay for it, but you know, silver linings and that.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Just a reminder that Newt Gingrich back in June called for a new House Un-American Activities Committee to hunt "Islamic supremacists" in the US.

Jfc, McCarthyism back in vogue.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Jfc, McCarthyism back in vogue.

Except in this case McCarthy managed to become president...

 

[Kai Dracon]

Dubya was never a horrible man on the balance. If anything, after he was out of office I thought there was every indication he was a far more balanced and decent person that most of the lunatics the GOP has twisted itself towards hosting.

It's just that Dubya was the front man for Cheney and the rest of the operation, which was pretty much a preview of the evil we're seeing come together now. I actually feel sorry for the man. He would probably get along better with Obama than any of his republican peers from the last 15 years. Hell, I could see Biden being Dubya's VP.