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[Wilsongt]

I mean, first you wanted to know if he'll do anything, and then if they'll stack the courts, and then HB2. Draw the line somewhere!

So, like, no, but he'll still have a decent amount of power, even with veto-proof legislatures.

I'm trying to be optimistic, yet realistic at the same time.
Lol. Cooper was one of the few bright spots of this election.

 

[Lois_Lane]

I think there's this prevailing belief that policies only matter if enacted at the presidential or gubernatorial level - when in fact I believe that most policies start at local levels and then tend to trickle their way up. I think we've focused too much on trying to force change at a federal / SCOTUS level downward rather than working on change upward.



Retaking the house will be hard, but there are some pretty vulnerable GOP seats in 2018 (GOP folks in blue districts). But I think our energy is better focused at a local level and pushing local policies that tend to have a pretty strong impact to that community's every day life, and can be better tailored to fit the needs of that community (and have less of a chance of unintended consequences).

The tough nut to crack is that if something isn't done at the federal level, then red states (hardcore ones, not slightly red ones) are basically abandoned, and some of those places (the South, for example) are full of minorities who will get shit on hardcore without federal support. Civil Rights only came to Mississippi at federal gunpoint, for instance. But there is a flip side to this problem of red states blocking the feds...



....which is that blue states can also block Republican federal action and enact left-wing policy, which should be evidently better to everyone (the difference between Kansas and Virginia should be clear). Then you use this evidence to build up support locally. Don't want your state to turn out like shitty Kansas? Vote out the local GOP! This Trump presidency (still reflexively vomit a bit when I say/type that) is going to devastate any state that doesn't actively oppose his plans. Then the blue states that held the line can point to their success like diamonds in the rough, and it's clearly due to local/state level control.

None of which will work if Dems don't bother showing up to the polls during elections(midterm or otherwise).

We also can't rely on people seeing reason to carry us through to victory. The difference between NY/Mississippi, Kansas/Colorado, and other red/blue states is already evident but we're still losing seats to Republicans.

Our local power structures are dying.

Our benches are shallower than Trump's ego.

The most well-known people in our party are old as shit.

Where are our Rubios, our Cruzs, our Christies, and our Nikki Haleys? For every 1 democrat you could name I can probably name 5 republicans who could run against them on a national scale. They groom their youthful Republicans in ways Dems seem incapable of replicating.

So even if we're lucky enough to get a backlash, there maybe no one out there to run against them. There need to be actions plans NOW, on how to fix our party structure.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I'm trying to be optimistic, yet realistic at the same time.
Lol. Cooper was one of the few bright spots of this election.

Maybe it was you, but I remember someone's top 3 for the election being that Hillary wins, we get a Dem Senate and McCrory gets fired out of a cannon into the sun. Well, one out of three ain't bad.

 

[Kangi]

Maybe it was you, but I remember someone's top 3 for the election being that Hillary wins, we get a Dem Senate and McCrory gets fired out of a cannon into the sun. Well, one out of three ain't bad.

That was me.

And I'll take it.

Ready the cannon.

 

[Dominican Power]

I was a teacher in NC for 5 years and left the state because of Pat and how he ran education. He called me an entitled millennial to my face in 2014. I have watched that race so closely and was so worried he would find a way to weasel it away.

Congrats to Roy Cooper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiCTSsxgeOc

Is he not a baby boomer?

 

[AntraxSuicide]

None of which will work if Dems don't bother showing up to the polls during elections(midterm or otherwise).

We also can't rely on people seeing reason to carry us through to victory. The difference between NY/Mississippi, Kansas/Colorado, and other red/blue states is already evident but we're still losing seats to Republicans.

Our local power structures are dying.

Our benches are shallower than Trump's ego.

The most well-known people in our party are old as shit.

Where are our Rubios, our Cruzs, our Christies, and our Nikki Haleys? For every 1 democrat you could name I can probably name 5 republicans who could run against them on a national scale. They groom their youthful Republicans in ways Dems seem incapable of replicating.

So even if we're lucky enough to get a backlash, there maybe no one out there to run against them. There need to be actions plans NOW, on how to fix our party structure.

My point is that this builds to 2018 and 2020. The candidates that will be lighting up some of these states aren't really on the stage yet. Most people don't know who Harris or Masto are yet, but we all know they'll be famous in 2-4 years. Shinra posted above a link about crestfallen women pushing to get into politics after this shit.

It's stupid because you want people to fight all the time, but rage gets out the vote. Being locked out gets out the vote. Dems ran the gamut in 2008 because Bush and the GOP were in power and lazy Dems got mad.

People like Harris are going to fight hard (they've already got PACs going!), and this will inspire more people to get on board.

 

[mo60]

Hilary clinton is now beating trump by over 4 million votes and by over a 30 point margin now in California. She is past obama's total in that state in 2008 with the additional votes that were added today. I wonder if CA will stay this blue in 2020 because we can throw trump's chances of winning the PV out of the window if he loses CA by 25% or 30%+ again.

 

[Oblivion]

I'm surprised this whole recount thing actually seems to have legs.

So let me ask you guys something. On November 8th, like most every here, I was praying/expecting that Hillary would win. But given the chance now, on November 27th, to have Hillary become president again, I'm not sure if I'd want that.

Here me out.

If Hillary somehow wins, she'll become president and will thus be able to veto most of the crazy shit Republicans in congress want. Furthermore, we won't have to worry about Scalia's seat being filled by some Scalia-jr.

But that's where the positives end. While there may not be a Scalia Jr. added to the SC, Republicans in the senate are not going to fill that seat while a Democrat is president. Furthermore, with Hillary already being as unpopular as she is, we're going to get an even bigger blowout in 2018 by the Trumpsters than we would have if Hillary won the first time around. 2020 would continue to look just as ugly and with the opposition even more energized than before, we once again get crushed on the state and local level, which will allow Republicans to gerrymander things even further for another decade. And hell, we might even lose the presidency.

If Trump stays in power, this means that we at least have a chance to undo the damage on the state and local level, fight back gerrymandering, and take back control of congress.

Thoughts?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Hilary clinton is now beating trump by over 4 million votes and by over a 30 point margin now in California. She is past obama's total in that state in 2008 with the additional votes that were added today. I wonder if CA will stay this blue in 2020 because we can throw trump's chances of winning the PV out of the window if he loses CA by 25% or 30%+ again.

If CA keeps this up no Republican will win the PV for a very long time

So at that point, the PV will become meaningless if one party can still win without it.

 

[royalan]

I'm surprised this whole recount thing actually seems to have legs.

So let me ask you guys something. On November 8th, like most every here, I was praying/expecting that Hillary would win. But given the chance now, on November 27th, to have Hillary become president again, I'm not sure if I'd want that.

Here me out.

If Hillary somehow wins, she'll become president and will thus be able to veto most of the crazy shit Republicans in congress want. Furthermore, we won't have to worry about Scalia's seat being filled by some Scalia-jr.

But that's where the positives end. While there may not be a Scalia Jr. added to the SC, Republicans in the senate are not going to fill that seat while a Democrat is president. Furthermore, with Hillary already being as unpopular as she is, we're going to get an even bigger blowout in 2018 by the Trumpsters than we would have if Hillary won the first time around. 2020 would continue to look just as ugly and with the opposition even more energized than before, we once again get crushed on the state and local level, which will allow Republicans to gerrymander things even further for another decade. And hell, we might even lose the presidency.

If Trump stays in power, this means that we at least have a chance to undo the damage on the state and local level, fight back gerrymandering, and take back control of congress.

Thoughts?

Just thinking about the ways Republicans are plotting to gut voting rights, civil rights, and immigration in this country? Not to mention the economy? Healthcare?

I don't give a fuck about the fallout. I'd take a Clinton presidency in any way, shape or form.

Republicans have the chance to fuck up our government in obscene ways. To dig us into a hole so deep it would take SEVERAL presidencies to climb out of. And the only thing stopping them right now is the possibility that they might go against their word to their constituents and decide not to.

 

[Lois_Lane]

My point is that this builds to 2018 and 2020. The candidates that will be lighting up some of these states aren't really on the stage yet. Most people don't know who Harris or Masto are yet, but we all know they'll be famous in 2-4 years. Shinra posted above a link about crestfallen women pushing to get into politics after this shit.

It's stupid because you want people to fight all the time, but rage gets out the vote. Being locked out gets out the vote. Dems ran the gamut in 2008 because Bush and the GOP were in power and lazy Dems got mad.

People like Harris are going to fight hard (they've already got PACs going!), and this will inspire more people to get on board.

I don't see how this builds to 2018 and 2020 when the fundamental problems of the Dem party remain unfixed. We have lost 11 governorships, 30 legislative chambers, and who knows how many local seats since 2008. 26 states are under full republican control. The reason we won 2008 was because -

1. GWB was GWB.
2.The recession.
3. The war.

And that was back in a time before fake news, and Russian meddling. What happens when 2020 rolls around and Repubs fall in line like they always do and Dems don't?

 

[teiresias]

I'm surprised this whole recount thing actually seems to have legs.

So let me ask you guys something. On November 8th, like most every here, I was praying/expecting that Hillary would win. But given the chance now, on November 27th, to have Hillary become president again, I'm not sure if I'd want that.

Here me out.

If Hillary somehow wins, she'll become president and will thus be able to veto most of the crazy shit Republicans in congress want. Furthermore, we won't have to worry about Scalia's seat being filled by some Scalia-jr.

But that's where the positives end. While there may not be a Scalia Jr. added to the SC, Republicans in the senate are not going to fill that seat while a Democrat is president. Furthermore, with Hillary already being as unpopular as she is, we're going to get an even bigger blowout in 2018 by the Trumpsters than we would have if Hillary won the first time around. 2020 would continue to look just as ugly and with the opposition even more energized than before, we once again get crushed on the state and local level, which will allow Republicans to gerrymander things even further for another decade. And hell, we might even lose the presidency.

If Trump stays in power, this means that we at least have a chance to undo the damage on the state and local level, fight back gerrymandering, and take back control of congress.

Thoughts?

First of all, no one is saying Clinton has a chance at winning the election because of this recount.

However, frankly, I don't understand all the vitriol aimed at the request of a recount. It seems like recount requests are well within the law and if someone has the means to request one or it happens automatically, then why not?

I mean, I suppose some thought it would look bad on the Democrats, but it seems like Trump really stepped in it with his nonsensical tweet tirade which turned the media away from proliferating any of the right-wing talking points or conspiracy theories concerning Clinton's involvement in making it happen. If people are concerned about people sending Stein money, then, meh, people will waste their money all kinds of ways - it's not like they were going to put that cash into a useful purpose like helping local Democratic candidates if they didn't give it to Stein.

 

[TestOfTide]

Hilary clinton is now beating trump by over 4 million votes and by over a 30 point margin now in California. She is past obama's total in that state in 2008 with the additional votes that were added today. I wonder if CA will stay this blue in 2020 because we can throw trump's chances of winning the PV out of the window if he loses CA by 25% or 30%+ again.

So obviously it sucks that California is being so underrepresented this election, but I have one big question:

What do the population shifts look like for when states have to be redestricted in 2021? Or to put it another way: Which states will get more electoral votes and which states will lose electoral votes?

First of all, no one is saying Clinton has a chance at winning the election because of this recount.

However, frankly, I don't understand all the vitriol aimed at the request of a recount. It seems like recount requests are well within the law and if someone has the means to request one or it happens automatically, then why not?

I mean, I suppose some thought it would look bad on the Democrats, but it seems like Trump really stepped in it with his nonsensical tweet tirade which turned the media away from proliferating any of the right-wing talking points or conspiracy theories concerning Clinton's involvement in making it happen. If people are concerned about people sending Stein money, then, meh, people will waste their money all kinds of ways - it's not like they were going to put that cash into a useful purpose like helping local Democratic candidates if they didn't give it to Stein.

It's not just about the fact that those millions could have gone towards the Louisiana Senate Runoff.

What do you think Jill Stein is going to use that money for? Actual ways to help society? Fuck no, she's gonna use all that money to fund campaigns that focus entirely on siphoning off Democratic votes by pretty much only attacking the democrats.

So all those people who donated to Jill Stein may have just cost the Democrats more votes for next general election.

 

[Retromelon]

Thoughts?

Bliv, hard as it is to take stein's recount nonsense seriously enough to invest thought into the infinitesimal chance that Hillary gets vindicated, as Hyliantom would say, the supreme court is all the reason in the world to want her in office. Ginsburg is 83, Kennedy's 80, and Breyer is 78. It's likely Trump seals the supreme court for conservatives for the next 15 years.

 

[mo60]

If CA keeps this up no Republican will win the PV for a very long time

So at that point, the PV will become meaningless if one party can still win without it.

Who would have thought CA would have swung even more blue then it was in 2012 by a signficant margin. I thought hilary had a shot of at least beating trump by a 25% margin or more in CA, but I did not think she would beat trump by literally a 30 point margin. Yeah. You are right there is no chance of a republican ever winning the popular vote as long as CA stays this blue.

 

[Oblivion]

Bliv, hard as it is to take stein's recount nonsense seriously enough to invest thought into the infinitesimal chance that Hillary gets vindicated, as Hyliantom would say, the supreme court is all the reason in the world to want her in office. Ginsburg is 83, Kennedy's 80, and Breyer is 78. It's likely Trump seals the supreme court for conservatives for the next 15 years.

But if Hillary is president, those still still won't get filled.

 

[Retromelon]

The republicans can't turn down nominations for 4 years straight. If Hillary had won they'd have bowed down to Garland

I mean I guess they could, technically, but it would be a new low

 

[Oblivion]

The republicans can't turn down nominations for 4 years straight. If Hillary had won they'd have bowed down to Garland

You'd think that, but people made similar arguments about how Republicans would never stop Obama from appointing an SC if one of the conservative justices died.

 

[TestOfTide]

You'd think that, but people made similar arguments about how Republicans would never stop Obama from appointing an SC if one of the conservative justices died.

In fact before the election when everyone thought Hillary was going to win, you literally had people like Ted Cruz saying "well there is precedent for having only 8 SCOTUS justices".

You can bet your ass they would have refused to give anyone a hearing or vote, especially when doing that payed off for them this election.

 

[numble]

So obviously it sucks that California is being so underrepresented this election, but I have one big question:

What do the population shifts look like for when states have to be redestricted in 2021? Or to put it another way: Which states will get more electoral votes and which states will lose electoral votes?

 

[whyamihere]

@edatpost
JUST IN: Trump picks Congressman Tom Price as health and human services secretary (via @PhilipRucker)

This is a huge pickup opportunity for Dems in 2018. Price's seat (GA-6) went from Romney's margin being greater than 60% in 2012 to Trump +1.5% in 2016.

 

[Maengun1]

Can Texas like turn blue already.

Can't believe NY is still declining

 

[Debirudog]

Congrats Cooper.

Fuck McCrory.

 

[whyamihere]

Can Texas like turn blue already.

Can't believe NY is still declining

It's not declining in population. It's just not growing fast enough. But I don't think it'll lose a seat, which would be the first time in decades.

 

[Blader]

The republicans can't turn down nominations for 4 years straight. If Hillary had won they'd have bowed down to Garland

I mean I guess they could, technically, but it would be a new low

Even guys like McCain were saying they would spend the next four years blocking SCOTUS appointments if Hillary was elected.

The GOP is a constant exercise in reaching a new low.

 

[Wilsongt]

Trump on a tweetstorm.

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 23m23 minutes ago

"@sdcritic: @HighonHillcrest @jeffzeleny @CNN There is NO QUESTION THAT #voterfraud did take place, and in favor of #CorruptHillary !"
0 replies 2,068 retweets 6,520 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 24m24 minutes ago

"@FiIibuster: @jeffzeleny Pathetic - you have no sufficient evidence that Donald Trump did not suffer from voter fraud, shame! Bad reporter.
0 replies 1,644 retweets 5,631 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 28m28 minutes ago

"@JoeBowman12: @jeffzeleny just another generic CNN part time wannabe journalist !" @CNN still doesn't get it. They will never learn!
0 replies 2,004 retweets 7,002 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 30m30 minutes ago

"@HighonHillcrest: @jeffzeleny what PROOF do u have DonaldTrump did not suffer from millions of FRAUD votes? Journalist? Do your job! @CNN"
0 replies 2,166 retweets 6,785 likes

 

[Oblivion]

Shame Cooper won't be able to do shit both because the legislature won't let him and also cause NC is one of the few states where the governor has no involvement whatsoever in redistricting maps.

At least McCrory's out of a job, so there's that.

In fact before the election when everyone thought Hillary was going to win, you literally had people like Ted Cruz saying "well there is precedent for having only 8 SCOTUS justices".

You can bet your ass they would have refused to give anyone a hearing or vote, especially when doing that payed off for them this election.

Exactly. Not to mention the "moderate" John McCain went a step further and basically swore that he'd never allow an appointment being made if Hillary won.

edit: dammit blader

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Losing the popular vote is eating away at his soul

 

[numble]

It's not declining in population. It's just not growing fast enough. But I don't think it'll lose a seat, which would be the first time in decades.

New York lost 2 electoral votes after the 2010 census. If it lost a seat after the 2020 census, it would be the first time it lost a seat in a decade.

 

[Kifimbo]

Trump on a tweetstorm.

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 23m23 minutes ago

"@sdcritic: @HighonHillcrest @jeffzeleny @CNN There is NO QUESTION THAT #voterfraud did take place, and in favor of #CorruptHillary !"
0 replies 2,068 retweets 6,520 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 24m24 minutes ago

"@FiIibuster: @jeffzeleny Pathetic - you have no sufficient evidence that Donald Trump did not suffer from voter fraud, shame! Bad reporter.
0 replies 1,644 retweets 5,631 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 28m28 minutes ago

"@JoeBowman12: @jeffzeleny just another generic CNN part time wannabe journalist !" @CNN still doesn't get it. They will never learn!
0 replies 2,004 retweets 7,002 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 30m30 minutes ago

"@HighonHillcrest: @jeffzeleny what PROOF do u have DonaldTrump did not suffer from millions of FRAUD votes? Journalist? Do your job! @CNN"
0 replies 2,166 retweets 6,785 likes

So he's asking to prove non-existence. And that FiIibuster user is 16 years old, if his profile is correct.

 

[Maengun1]

If Hillary had won with *this* senate I believe we could have gone 4 years with SC deadlock, but if she had won with Feingold and McGinty, and possibly Ross and Kander...

Sigh

 

[Zeeman]

Trump on a tweetstorm.

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 23m23 minutes ago

"@sdcritic: @HighonHillcrest @jeffzeleny @CNN There is NO QUESTION THAT #voterfraud did take place, and in favor of #CorruptHillary !"
0 replies 2,068 retweets 6,520 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 24m24 minutes ago

"@FiIibuster: @jeffzeleny Pathetic - you have no sufficient evidence that Donald Trump did not suffer from voter fraud, shame! Bad reporter.
0 replies 1,644 retweets 5,631 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 28m28 minutes ago

"@JoeBowman12: @jeffzeleny just another generic CNN part time wannabe journalist !" @CNN still doesn't get it. They will never learn!
0 replies 2,004 retweets 7,002 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 30m30 minutes ago

"@HighonHillcrest: @jeffzeleny what PROOF do u have DonaldTrump did not suffer from millions of FRAUD votes? Journalist? Do your job! @CNN"
0 replies 2,166 retweets 6,785 likes

He's so insecure it's incredible.

 

[metalslimer]

No one saw him whining about fraud even after he won lol

I'm generally over the election at this point, but everyone once in a while I deeply think about it and my body basically shuts down for a minute to shake it off.

 

[sphagnum]

NO QUESTION!

 

[Retromelon]

Exactly. Not to mention the "moderate" John McCain went a step further and basically swore that he'd never allow an appointment being made if Hillary won.

edit: dammit blader

Taking the supreme court out of it, Hillary would still be worth it to veto all the horrible bullshit that Trump is going to ram through like his tax cuts and "infrastructure plan"

 

[Grief.exe]

I, along with some other teachers of the year dared to ask for raises after a pay freeze from 2008 that had not yet been lifted. After 5 years in NC I was still classified as a year 0 teacher.

So yeah, entitled etc. haha

The party of the people, always fighting for the middle class.

 

[Cybit]

The tough nut to crack is that if something isn't done at the federal level, then red states (hardcore ones, not slightly red ones) are basically abandoned, and some of those places (the South, for example) are full of minorities who will get shit on hardcore without federal support. Civil Rights only came to Mississippi at federal gunpoint, for instance. But there is a flip side to this problem of red states blocking the feds...



....which is that blue states can also block Republican federal action and enact left-wing policy, which should be evidently better to everyone (the difference between Kansas and Virginia should be clear). Then you use this evidence to build up support locally. Don't want your state to turn out like shitty Kansas? Vote out the local GOP! This Trump presidency (still reflexively vomit a bit when I say/type that) is going to devastate any state that doesn't actively oppose his plans. Then the blue states that held the line can point to their success like diamonds in the rough, and it's clearly due to local/state level control.

Which highlights the importance of doing the local to state to federal path, rather than the other way around. The local path gives us a bulwark when we lose on a national level, and allows us to quickly implement when we do win on a national level. The hardcore red states can block anything pretty much outside of SCOTUS. And our lack of local work has left us with a super weak bench and having weaker Senate candidates.

 

[whyamihere]

Why can't he even RT correctly? Or thread his tweets?

 

[aaaaa0]

No one saw him whining about fraud even after he won

"The system is RIGGED, my opponent even CHEATED, but I'm so awesome I WON ANYWAY."

That is what is going through his head.

 

[Vahagn]

I think there's this prevailing belief that policies only matter if enacted at the presidential or gubernatorial level - when in fact I believe that most policies start at local levels and then tend to trickle their way up. I think we've focused too much on trying to force change at a federal / SCOTUS level downward rather than working on change upward.



Retaking the house will be hard, but there are some pretty vulnerable GOP seats in 2018 (GOP folks in blue districts). But I think our energy is better focused at a local level and pushing local policies that tend to have a pretty strong impact to that community's every day life, and can be better tailored to fit the needs of that community (and have less of a chance of unintended consequences).

1. We're the party of strong federal government, they're the party of local government. This shouldn't surprise you.

2. Demographic shifts are such that we're huddled up in fewer and fewer states, they happen to be more populated on average which is why federal plays make sense

3. We just had two supremely successful Dem presidents that sandwiched a massively incompetent republican one. That makes sense too.

4. there are absolutely states with the kind of control that republicans have in deep red ones where there isn't any republican with any real level of power. Again, though. We live in large enough numbers to win elections about 30% of states and about 1% of the land.

5. Their base are older, our base are younger. Which means they have the ability to turn out folks for every local election who can take breakfast at 11:00 am at the local diner while we're juggling college and a job or just getting started putting in 60 hours of work to establish ourselves and raising small kids.


The real failure of progressivism and thus the Democratic Party is that we let the party of anti-social security and anti-Medicare own the vote of people aged 50+ because of culture wars.

 

[The Chosen One]

Lawrence O'Donnel throwing shade at Morning Joe. :lol

 

[Vahagn]

Lawrence O'Donnel throwing shade at Morning Joe. :lol

Honestly, he should get a job on Fox.

For all his crap, he's still much better, especially on race as class issues than the average republican. Put a real never trumper on MSNBC and let Joe slightly moderate the Fox viewership a little.

 

[mo60]

Why can't he even RT correctly? Or thread his tweets?

He also thinks he won in a landslide.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

But local government arguably has more of a direct effect on day to day life. Dems may believe in top down change, but that's not really how basic government even works in the US.

This country was founded on being paranoid about too strong of a central government. Have to focus on bottom up more to even have a shot at getting meaningful progressive change. Federal is important of course, but having a deep local infrastructure also allows a good flow of young candidates too.

 

[Holmes]

Hilary clinton is now beating trump by over 4 million votes and by over a 30 point margin now in California. She is past obama's total in that state in 2008 with the additional votes that were added today. I wonder if CA will stay this blue in 2020 because we can throw trump's chances of winning the PV out of the window if he loses CA by 25% or 30%+ again.

Yes. California is now a 30%+ margin Democratic state. A no man's land for Republicans.

 

[Vahagn]

But local government arguably has more of a direct effect on day to day life. Dems may believe in top down change, but that's not really how basic government even works in the US.

This country was founded on being paranoid about too strong of a central government. Have to focus on bottom up more to even have a shot at getting meaningful progressive change. Federal is important of course, but having a deep local infrastructure also allows a good flow of young candidates too.

That addresses the first of my bullet points. And it doesn't though because the problems are explained in the rest. We OWN our states. We just own fewer of them because of population distribution and our voting base has more going on then theirs to beat them in battlegrounds.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

That addresses the first of my bullet points. And it doesn't though because the problems are explained in the rest. We OWN our states. We just own fewer of them because of population distribution and our voting base has more going on then theirs to beat them in battlegrounds.

Yeah I get the population distribution in certain situations.

But if I'm not mistaken, even in a number of blue and deep blue states, GOP have one state level elections and state level Congressional races.

 

[Vahagn]

Yeah I get the population distribution in certain situations.

But if I'm not mistaken, even in a number of blue and deep blue states, GOP have one state level elections and state level Congressional races.

Honestly the only one I can think of is Michigan and Maine. But as this election has shown, Michigan and Maine aren't that deep blue.


You could take the California/NY/Washington/Oregon/Hawaii vote difference between Clinton and trump - spread 75% of it out around 20 states and we would never lose again.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Yeah I get the population distribution in certain situations.

But if I'm not mistaken, even in a number of blue and deep blue states, GOP have one state level elections and state level Congressional races.

Here's the basic issue.

45% of Republican's will never vote for a Democrat. It could be Jesus vs. Satan and they'd pull the lever for Satan. I'm not saying that's a completely horrible thing - in 2016, I'm basically the same thing, only for the DNC. OTOH, there's a lot fewer of those types in the DNC - we have a bigger tent, so there's lots more of socially liberal, fiscally moderate (ie. I'm OK with tax raises on people higher than me) types.

In addition, for whatever reason, it's far easier to connect state or local level Democrat's to the national party, even if they run as far more moderate candidates. OTOH, Republican's can get away with essentially pretending they don't even belong to the same party as the crazies and as a result, get elected in blue states far easier.

It also doesn't help that in many of those blue states, the Democratic parties are either seen as corrupt, inefficient, or big spenders. For instance, there were probably hundreds of thousands of Obama/Christie voters who don't want their property taxes raised, but don't mind Obama promising to raise really rich peoples taxes.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Honestly the only one I can think of is Michigan and Maine. But as this election has shown, Michigan and Maine aren't that deep blue.


You could take the California/NY/Washington/Oregon/Hawaii vote difference between Clinton and trump - spread 75% of it out around 20 states and we would never lose again.

I think Washington has a Republican upper house. Massachusetts has had Republican governors. Stuff like that.