CNN pundits have been historically awful recently fam. I don't know about the DNC in particular, but we're working with some incredibly low bars at the moment for quality of discussion on CNN.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
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CNN pundits have been historically awful recently fam. I don't know about the DNC in particular, but we're working with some incredibly low bars at the moment for quality of discussion on CNN.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I think Crab's coming across poorly here but I think this is where it's a good thing the Iowa caucus is early. It's not super representative demographically but it does give our young hopefuls a chance to cut their teeth with Midwestern white people, which I think Obama did pretty successfully in 2008. Dickerson has a good podcast about Obama in the 2008 Iowa caucus and how it proved himself as a viable candidate and how it helped him connect to Midwestern white people in ways he didn't have to in Chicago. I think if Harris or Masto can repeat that there's reason to hope.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
The response was South Park/Onion level of liberal PC political talking points, just unbelievable
I don't know what you expect.
Honestly we're talking about an election season where dudes like Lewandowski are on CNN brushing away grabbing someone in the pussy by arguing that Trump is no church Sunday school teacher, that a 70 year old man shouldn't be held accountable for something he said during his mid 50s or others defending locking up Muslims in internment camps.
You can call that an awful pundit but all the same shit is gross on CNN right now anyway.
metalslimer
Member
Well if the right can explain away white supremacy, sexism, homophobia, and xenophobia with economic anxiety, I guess the left can do the same with psychopaths as well.
Conway is going to visit Calgary Alberta early next year and tour the Alberta oilsands.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news...ser+conway+coming+calgary/12452186/story.html
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news...ser+conway+coming+calgary/12452186/story.html
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I mean, as I said: I'm not going to settle definitively on anyone until the primaries, although there are candidates I'd like to see run more than others. But yes, Iowa is a good test. Not the best - that'd be Michigan, by the logic from my earlier post in projected state demographics - but Iowa is close. If Harris somehow wins Iowa in a landslide, I'll take it all back - she will have proven she has the essential capacity for the 2020 Democratic candidate. If she just tumbles over the edge in Iowa after heavy support by the party elites, well, that's when the warning bells are really going to go off for me.
Real surprised how hard NBCnews.com came out against Trump - "Donald Trump Proposes Two Illegal Responses to Flag Burning", and from the text "While it is flatly unconstitutional to jail a citizen for burning the flag, Trump's suggestion of stripping citizenship in response is even more extreme."
Maybe someone grew a spine?
Maybe someone grew a spine?
Trump's a racist white guy opposing NAFTA though, which makes him a man of the people in their eyes.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
I really don't think this micro focus on specific demographic metrics matters when it comes to who the next nominee should be; we don't need a character creation scene for this. We have a president now who is a black, somewhat aloof lawyer from Chicago who won over enough white working class voters to easily win two presidential elections. I just want someone who is a good to great politician who can win - specifically by bringing out the democrat base. Being a good politician and being able to win aren't always the same thing though. Gavin Newsom is a real good politician...but if you trot him out to the rustbelt you're gonna get stomped.
I'm not sure who the nom should be, and to make matters worse the only really good/great politician available in my opinion is Kamala Harris, who probably won't be ready in 2020. IMO Warren is a disaster waiting to happen, Booker would be a solid VP but bad nominee, I'm a Kaine fan but don't think he can win a presidential election unless things go perfect.
Tip: watch which candidates win over Obama and Clinton aides/loyalists over the next 3 years. I have a bad feeling Warren and Kaine will have the most...and I have doubts about both winning against Trump. Warren has no shot IMO, Kaine has a chance depending on the economy+scandals I guess. Kaine Booker 2020? Kaine Harris 2020? I have a feeling people are going to be selling that idea soon.
I'm not sure who the nom should be, and to make matters worse the only really good/great politician available in my opinion is Kamala Harris, who probably won't be ready in 2020. IMO Warren is a disaster waiting to happen, Booker would be a solid VP but bad nominee, I'm a Kaine fan but don't think he can win a presidential election unless things go perfect.
Tip: watch which candidates win over Obama and Clinton aides/loyalists over the next 3 years. I have a bad feeling Warren and Kaine will have the most...and I have doubts about both winning against Trump. Warren has no shot IMO, Kaine has a chance depending on the economy+scandals I guess. Kaine Booker 2020? Kaine Harris 2020? I have a feeling people are going to be selling that idea soon.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
And yet would be exponentially better than what we're seeing now.
As for the debate about 2020, I really think the candidate is going to be the person that steps up immediately and grabs the reins of responsibility by directly attacking republican policy on a regular basis. If somebody did that starting now and got the persona of the democrat who is fighting and loudly sounding the alarm every chance they get, if the economy tanks, they'll have already been publicly out in the open as the visible figure leading the charge.
Just kiss the election goodbye in that case.
Kaine excite's no one, he is a terrible pick.
I do agree with your assertion that we don't need to hit a bunch of checkboxes to get the perfect nominee, we just need a good politician who can get people excited (which is explicitly not Kaine). Kander might've been this guy if he had won, but his top office serving as Secretary of State for Missouri? That's just not enough.
I wouldn't be against a Harris/Kander ticket though.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I think Kaine will struggle too much because of his association with Clinton and just how long he's been a top Democrat for. Young Kaine might have been a presidential hopeful, once, but he's over the hill now in terms of his chances. I agree Warren would not do so well, or Booker even. I think Klobuchar might be able to swing it, in terms of the more senior Democrats who could feasibly win over old Obama/Clinton hands.
I agree future Kander could do it, but he isn't ready for 2020 and putting rising talents on a failing VP ticket is a sure way to kill their rise.
I agree future Kander could do it, but he isn't ready for 2020 and putting rising talents on a failing VP ticket is a sure way to kill their rise.
That only matters if you're not pure (on the Dem side). Booker's probably shiny enough where that doesn't really matter.
Booker can literally be connected directly to the Trump administration right now thanks to his stance on education in the past. Dude crashes and burns hard.
I also think Booker's a cool dude but he's just no go beyond maybe cabinet positions.
So? Look at all the Bernie supporters who gave Clinton shit for the crime bill in the 90's. He literally voted on it and then ran on it for years! They want to be excited, that's all.
Sanders also lost the primary fam. Like I said, I get what you're saying but if your bar for a candidate is I could see myself having a beer with them, then you're going to run afoul of a ton of shit.
whyamihere
Banned
I want to hear more about this.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
The refrain used to be that all politics is local, then it became all politics is national. I would take it a step further and say all politics is social media now. Yes, the average voter doesn't know who their Senator or Representative is, but they also don't care or know about Paul Ryan's national budget either. No, what voters really care about is what shows up on their Facebook and Twitter feed; they care about memes and image-macros and fake news. The difference between something like Gamergate and Benghazi is one of context, not substance.
What we're seeing now is just the mainstream assimilation of internet culture. Future political campaigns will eschew polling in favor of behavioral data analytics.
But not for that reason. He lost because he didn't put in the work.
Oh really now?
Yeah, while I'm not sharing the cynicism of Crab that Harris can't run a good campaign for Midwesterners just because she's from California, I understand his concerns.
The Midwest is now America's swing region (again) and Democrats are left without a blue wall. The West and Southwest aren't going to be enough, only if Florida, Georgia and NC are added to it, but WI, MI and PA are priorities and more plausible states.
And Obama, for all his supposed exocticness, was a Midwestern man. Raised by a midwestern family from Kansas and politically formed himself in the Midwest.
While Bernie isn't midwestern, his old working class Brooklyn "feistiness" is attractive to Midwesterners, apparently. Both him and Donald Trump grew up on Long Island around the same time, so it makes sense they appealed to many of the same voters, I guess.
Hillary, well. She really is a bit of everything. I know, from what I've read, that she wanted to appeal to the same people she tapped into during the 2008 primaries and made Obama's nomination more complicated than thought. But, she was convinced by the campaign that her liberal New Yorker side would be enough.
If he manages to pull this sort of stuff off without causing a trade war, he'll win again in 2020.
But he's Trump so he'll probably cause a trade war.
Honestly, if this is anything like his last "deal" then they weren't going anywhere in the first place.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think so. I think this will be true in the future, but Trump's average voter is pretty old and not really immersed in internet culture. I don't remember the source, although I'll try finding it, but iirc their primary news intake was from cable news, followed by local news. The internet scored relatively lowly. I know it's tempting to assume that Steve Bannon and Breitbart are representative of the marginal Trump voter, but I don't think that's true - that's the new millenial bigot, which was actually a relatively small portion of the electorate. They're just very loud and very horrible, so they attract most of our attention. It'd be like assuming that all Democrats post on tumblr.
He's been railing on Carrier specifically and just them for like a year now no? I'm curious to see what he offered them specifically vs what he can do for every other industry out there. Like how many palms can you grease before you can't afford to any longer. Also as B-Dubs said, this could be smoke out his ass again too.
His fans don't know/care though.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
I'm not saying I like Booker, I have deep reservations about him.. But he could serve as a solid VP when it comes to energizing the base. If he runs for president he's gonna have a lot of money and a clear path to the nomination (the south). That scares me but it's only 2016, who knows how things play out.
Carrier had specifically said they were closing these plants down.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-carriercorp-layoffs-idUSKCN0VP2R6
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
So now we know why Trump tweeted about flag burning this morning. He just named a Goldman Sachs ex exec and a billionaire to his #draintheswap cabinet.
It's so transparent; why are people falling for it so easily?
It's so transparent; why are people falling for it so easily?
He tweeted about Flag Burning because a segment on it aired on Fox News this morning, just before the tweet.
There is no master plan. He's just a baby.
So this raises a lot of questions.
Wanda/Wander
Member
What are you talking about?
http://www.wthr.com/article/trump-team-reaches-deal-to-keep-carrier-jobs-in-indiana-cnbc-reports
Tax benefits in exchange for jobs. These are just state tax breaks. Expect to see more of this. It is win-win for Trump--cutting taxes while getting companies to stay or create jobs.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I think they'll care if Trump doesn't veto Ryan's attempts to privatize Social Security and Medicare. I think Yglesias said that if you're a traditional upper Midwestern rural Democrat you probably continually vote for Democrats because they promise to protect both of those things, and that Trump in the primaries broke from normal Republican talking points by promising not to make any cuts to either of those while Clinton is silent on the subject. She talked about the minimum wage and ACA, but neither of those are as relevant to the older WWC voters there. Remember how Biden in the VP debate everyone loves to remember specifically talks about protecting both of those.
Maybe I'm wrong and they care much more about kicking out brown people, but then we're done I guess and should probably give up now.
Yep, Rahm is the wrong choice from Chicago. Even Dick durbin would have a better chance.
Almost any clean and well liked Chicago area politician would do better than Rahm, even people who arent especially charismatic. If Mike Quigley started speaking out more he has that Midwestern charm and honesty that people like. Or Jan Schakowsky (edit: axe Jan because I forgot ahe is in her 70s already, add Robin Kelly and Luis Gutierrez). Maybe Raja (duckworths successor) will make a name for himself once he takes office. If Toni preckwinkle ran for a congressional office she would probably win. I'm hoping she raises her profile by running against Rauner for the governorship.
Not that any if these people are slam dunk candidates, but they balance being like by local liberals but also being palatable to the rest of the country.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Real good news coming out of North Carolina!
NYT now reporting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html
I note that they say nothing about the Huntington plant, and keeping a majority of the 1400 jobs in Indianapolis (CNBC reporting close to 1000 jobs will be kept), still means that there could be a loss of 1100 jobs. It is still a PR win for Trump and you probably cannot effectively attack him for not saving all the jobs.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html
I note that they say nothing about the Huntington plant, and keeping a majority of the 1400 jobs in Indianapolis (CNBC reporting close to 1000 jobs will be kept), still means that there could be a loss of 1100 jobs. It is still a PR win for Trump and you probably cannot effectively attack him for not saving all the jobs.
This image is being shared around by a lot of my family who voted for Trump:
Broken clock strikes again!
I grew to like Kaine, in his way, and he would have been a fine VP, but no way should he ever run for pres or vp again, sorry. I don't think gender/ethnicity/age should have anything to do with the discussions of future Dem contenders, but they NEED to be "exciting"/charismatic and honestly, as dumb as this is in reality, as little "record" as possible is pretty clearly a benefit at this point. Even good records are being twisted at this point into fake shadiness.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
To say Trump's campaign wasn't predicated on internet culture is crazy to me. How many news cycles were devoted purely to things Trump said on Twitter? Traditional media isn't a leader anymore, it's a follower of social media. Getting your news from TV is a pointless distinction when it's just the equivalent of tape-delay coverage of the most popular thing being argued about online.
Trump's campaign was essentially internet culture brought to life, hell Trump the candidate is the internet brought to life (he literally regurgitates internet memes and fake news verbatim). Trump and his team were exploiting that fact from the start, long before Bannon ever came along, and they were so successful precisely because internet culture has permeated into mainstream culture.
How many times did this pattern repeat? Trump reads Fake Story X online. Trump repeats Fake Story X in person. Controversy over X blows up on social media. Traditional media covers X all day.
Television has changed #kojima
So they'll reduce taxes and then in all likelihood the plant will still be closed in 2-3 years when nobody's looking.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This image is being shared around by a lot of my family who voted for Trump:
Yessssss
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