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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
- Start date
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I mean most of everything that came out of Trump's mouth was a lie and Clinton did have good, detailed plans that would have helped that demographic. Not campaigning enough there and credibility problems hurt her but she had the plans. I think a stronger messenger that puts more emphasis on the economic platform and can explain in a more concise, digestible way will do well. As I stress though, at no point can social justice issues be put aside (I know you agree with me on that regard but others seems more wishy-washy about it so I'm just boldly putting it out there).
This is all true and now I'm scared
These swings between optimism and despair can't be healthy
Life is too unfair. The meanest ones always last the longest, he'll probably live to be 90+.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Dementia runs in his family.
We very well might be looking at half of the last 4 GOP presidents leaving office while afflicted by it.
excelsiorlef
Member
Clearly not...
But the solution being offered isn't a hybrid but an abandonment of what you are calling Identity politics...
I wonder if this election will change the liberal groupthink on gun control. "The government will keep you safe" is a lot less appealing with a white nationalist as president.
By whom?
By whom?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Okay, today isn't going so bad. Michael Tracey has been fired, yesssss.
Michael Tracey was fired for doxxing Lena Dunham like the fuckhead he is. Her "deceit" was that she claimed to have voted for Hillary in NY when she might not have... which clearly justifies her doxxing?
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/797128757408567296
Michael Tracey was fired for doxxing Lena Dunham like the fuckhead he is. Her "deceit" was that she claimed to have voted for Hillary in NY when she might not have... which clearly justifies her doxxing?
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/797128757408567296
Sirpopopop
Member
"That’s why Clinton will launch a $20 billion initiative to create millions of new career opportunities for young Americans—including jobs and apprenticeships."
Yup, sounds like a tax break to me!
Are you also glossing over the part about infrastructure investment as well?
That first ad isn't a jobs plan. It doesn't actually mention what his plan is. It just says, "my plan rocks. her plan sucks."
The second ad is exactly what I was talking about. It's race baiting. "Massive illegal immigration." "Those globalists." "Jobs fleeing to Mexico and China." "Global power structure."
Note: globalists is a reference to people of the Jewish faith. Very common in alt-right circles.
He's really already exhibiting dementia. Fairly clear signs of some mental disorder.
balladofwindfishes
Member
We might want to ease up on gun control anyway. It's an argument we keep losing, badly. And we had success with gun rights Democrats both in this election and in the past.
In some of these southern states, being anti-gun is a non starter. You will never win. We need to be flexible.
They were probably looking for an excuse.
I really, honestly think that the quickest, most direct counter-appeal to the WWC and rural voters is simple: healthcare.
that was part of the message that got Bill Clinton elected in 92, that's the message that completely galvanized Pennsylvania into voting D for decades. privatization of medicare will be hugely unpopular, repealing the ACA will be a complete disaster, etc.
ironically, part of the ACA's problem is that, because no one seems to understand what the fuck is actually in the bill, it's compromised nature is constantly used against it. it's just a catch-all for everything that is wrong with the system.
this is part of bernie's appeal (the part that mirror's trump). single-payer is a simplistic, effective appeal. it is a message. i hate that it's so fucking hard to control the messaging on healthcare. maybe now that the R's have control (and no plan to fix anything), it'll be easier to craft an insurgent message. i don't know.
that was part of the message that got Bill Clinton elected in 92, that's the message that completely galvanized Pennsylvania into voting D for decades. privatization of medicare will be hugely unpopular, repealing the ACA will be a complete disaster, etc.
ironically, part of the ACA's problem is that, because no one seems to understand what the fuck is actually in the bill, it's compromised nature is constantly used against it. it's just a catch-all for everything that is wrong with the system.
this is part of bernie's appeal (the part that mirror's trump). single-payer is a simplistic, effective appeal. it is a message. i hate that it's so fucking hard to control the messaging on healthcare. maybe now that the R's have control (and no plan to fix anything), it'll be easier to craft an insurgent message. i don't know.
excelsiorlef
Member
Are you serious?
Literally the person I was replying to in the first place... now calling for incrementalism... where as that understanding during and after the primary....
It's funny when incrementalism is only an acceptable option when talking about minority civil rights.
I saw it in OT it's come up here.
Let's not worry aboyt those people they'll vote Dem anyway.
Good on them. I can't think of any other millennial female celebrity who gets more absolute hatred thrown at them than Dunham. I'm sure there are others I'm just forgetting right now, but whenever I see her even mentioned it's usually accompanied by grievance.
whyamihere
Banned
This is fun.
New Hampshire's 1st CD election winners:
2006: Carol Shea-Porter
2010: Frank Guinta
2012: Carol Shea-Porter
2014: Frank Guinta
2016: Carol Shea-Porter
New Hampshire's 1st CD election winners:
2006: Carol Shea-Porter
2010: Frank Guinta
2012: Carol Shea-Porter
2014: Frank Guinta
2016: Carol Shea-Porter
sturgboski
Member
Metric I saw was Hillary down 8m Dems from 2012 and Trump down 1m Republicans. Cant be overstated: Republicans always come home. Or, god this is my new favorite quote so thanks to the poster who brought it up: Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. If democrats arent in love with the top of the ticket, they just dont care to vote, fuck the ramifications of the democrats not winning. Various interviews with Republicans, hell even just informal conversations with people at my job, they disliked what Trump was doing (racism, bigotry, etc) but all either said "I will hold my nose and vote for him because its more important to have the Republicans win" or "Ill cross that bridge when I get there" which is basically a passive way of saying the first quote.
RastaMentality
Banned
"GO ALL IN ON THE RUST BELT" white liberals will say. i like my intersectional Democratic party that has Muslims, trans people, and disabled people speaking at the DNC, mmkay.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Michael Tracey and Rania Khalek getting fired is literally the only good news of the last two weeks.
I hope when The Intercept hires Michael Tracey that the three good reporters at The Intercept leave.
I hope when The Intercept hires Michael Tracey that the three good reporters at The Intercept leave.
balladofwindfishes
Member
More ammo for 2020. He ran on anti-establishment and his cabinet is 100% establishment rich old people.
The ads write themselves.
I think the belief that Dems need to fall in love is correct, and could (should, even) be argued against on the basis of privilege. How privileged do you have to be to shirk your moral duty to make the world a better place, because you, personally, don't love the candidate put forward?
Considering liberal left loves to "check their privilege", I can see this being a slap in the face that might wake them up.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
We also propose milquetoast plans that will barely affect the problems we have here so as to say "we don't want to take your guns away" and then still get killed on it.
It's really upsetting to me that we need to drop it, but nothing will really get done on it.
The metrics you saw is wrong, it's incomplete.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
See ya Tracey, don't let the door hit you on the way out
Or we just go hole hog. No matter what we do they will say we want to take their guns away, even if we drop it, so why not just say we want to take their guns? They'll hit us on it anyway and it's the right thing to do besides.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Guns will be handled by the courts holding up laws passed by the states. It's a non-starter on a federal level.
Reminds me of 2008 when Obama never even said the word "gun" because there were much larger issues, but the right still pretended like he was going to get rid of their guns.
At my office, it was "Anyone is better than having the Clintons back in power" and paraphrased "nasty woman" arguments. In retrospect, that should've been worrying to me considering I live in the NYC suburbs and not rural Wyoming.
Also, my coworkers (and myself) who are in data-driven, analytical positions were the ones laughing about voting for that moron. We are the minority.
A way to dip into the Republican base, maybe? "We respect State laws, especially on gun rights". Slightly manipulative, since abortion wouldn't be, but, again, it's handled by the courts.
Hillary Clinton's initiative for job creation relied entirely on the "generosity" of individual profiteers. Bernie Sanders wanted government agencies to directly employee young people to the benefit of our nation. This miniature New Deal was hard to accomplish, but far more direct. Nobody would argue that Trump's jobs plan was properly explained (or even solvent), but his promises were direct and simple and much easier to sell. "We'll make China bring back factory jobs" is a much better sound byte than "I have a plan to encourage job growth." This shouldn't be up for debate.
"Anti-globalism" absolutely has anti-Semitic connotations! But where do you think anger toward globalism comes from? This rhetoric is the misdirection of legitimate anger against capitalism toward an imaginary group of potentially Jewish conspirators who are trying to transform the world. Changes like immigration and unemployment are both consequences of capitalism. Anti-globalism allows candidates like Trump to benefit from fear these consequences without attacking the source. Fascists have been doing this for almost a century.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Assault weapon bans and background checks aren't that helpful either and No-Fly-No-Buy is a disaster.
Stopping domestic abusers from having guns and trying to limit gun suicides (with mandatory gun safes maybe?) is the best way to lower gun violence. Probably decriminalizing all drugs too.
Stopping domestic abusers from having guns and trying to limit gun suicides (with mandatory gun safes maybe?) is the best way to lower gun violence. Probably decriminalizing all drugs too.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
If we can't get universal background checks passed, do you think we can institute massive Australia-style federal buyback programs and simultaneously not get struck down by the courts because of the second amendment?
IggyChooChoo
Member
No matter what we do they'll hit us on it, so we may as well own it. We may as well push for a full ban. It won't matter, it's already baked in.
sturgboski
Member
I would love to see that change. However, outside of each of those 8m having a sudden epiphany, how does the Democrat party instill this belief in their registered supporters? How does one campaign on a "look I know you might not be in love with me, that I might not excite you, but not voting for me is far more dangerous to the ideals that you do love, that do excite you"?
Wait, expanding the number of roles in the public sector, in the government, is deemed the right solution? Having friends who still do or have worked for the government, the amount of redundancy and non-needed employees that federal government employees is already at a high level. Wouldnt it be best to improve their education and get them jobs in the private sector?
I don't think so Virginia looked close that night but it really wasn't it was right at the average at RCP which is 5 and that's without any campaign here. She won it by larger numbers than CO or NV. Bernie would had to campaign here but I think he would of won.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
The Colorado single-payer bill getting crushed makes me worry that single-payer isn't the way to go politically.
But there should be something simple thought up that can be easily sold to people.
the GOP would just imply slippery-slope logic and the idiots woud buy it. I feel like no matter how reasonable we approach this, there is pushback because conservatives believe in lies.
My mistake. I misread East Lake's post and thought he was calling for economic advocacy alongside racial advocacy.
Democrats lost that battle, at least for now. There were multitudes of different single issue voters, but I guarantee a portion of them hated Trump but voted for him anyway because they were afraid Hillary was going to take their guns
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Did you see what Kander did this year? It absolutely doesn't have to be baked in.
Chris Christie is more of a dumbass than Pence. Pence is probably more evil though.
Hypothetical future senators like Jason Kander, who still put up a great fight despite Hillary getting blown out of the water in MO, would vote against gun bans.
Chris Christie is never going to get anything in return for anything he did for Trump.
I'm not sure why Democrats pursued gun control at all. Banning weapons won't address the sources of crime and suicide. Moreover, empowering the government at the expensive of the masses isn't something progressives should support.
sturgboski
Member
So does that mean we need to hold a funeral for Christie's aborted (still born?) political aspirations in a Trump presidency?
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