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[Beer Monkey]

That pipeline is going ahead when Trump is sworn in anyway.

I live in the most liberal area in my city and I sure as hell wish some of my neighbors had put the effort into Hillary getting elected that they have put into stopping DAPL.

 

[Debirudog]

Wait, where is Hillary fighting Trump? I know Bernie is, but Hillary seems to have Romneyed-out of the spotlight. Its to be expected I suppose after such an embarrassing loss, though her losing relevancy is probably the only silver lining of the situation, even if I would have preferred the alternative.

But this is the reality we live in, and questioning ourselves and looking at what failed is the only way to move past this, so I think the infighting is necessary- finding out what direction the party needs to move. Its the perfect time for the progressives to make their mark, the situation with the Dakota Access Pipeline reinvigorated my optimism. Bernie was there at the white house, loudly protesting it and in the back of my mind, even as a supporter I thought he was wasting his time but something actually came of it. Who would have known.

the infighting doesn't help at all when it's all a bunch of scapegoating.

 

[Ether_Snake]

We'll get so much good material from Conan with Trump. If Hillary won we would have had good ol "wooooooooooo ha!" Bill but this is pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrxyCe7mcn8

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Am I the only one who just doesn't click links from:

Vox
Slate
HuffPost
ThinkProgress
Politico
DailyKos
TPM

Seems to be a great strategy for sanity

 

[whyamihere]

Am I the only one who just doesn't click links from:

Vox
Slate
HuffPost
ThinkProgress
Politico
DailyKos
TPM

Seems to be a great strategy for sanity

I wouldn't understand half of the downballot candidates and international elections if I didn't check DailyKos's daily elections diary. IMO, it's indispensable, even if you were a Republican.

I live in the most liberal area in my city and I sure as hell wish some of my neighbors had put the effort into Hillary getting elected that they have put into stopping DAPL.

Heitkamp may frustrate progressives (and me), but she's right that the pipeline is going to be built.

 

[gaugebozo]

This gives me an idea. Obama should do a bunch of executive orders and similar actions just so trump has to waste time undoing them.

Obama says, jump on one leg!
Obama says, put your hands on your head!
Sit down!

Ohhh! Obama didn't say!

 

[pigeon]

Wait, where is Hillary fighting Trump? I know Bernie is, but Hillary seems to have Romneyed-out of the spotlight. Its to be expected I suppose after such an embarrassing loss, though her losing relevancy is probably the only silver lining of the situation, even if I would have preferred the alternative.

But this is the reality we live in, and questioning ourselves and looking at what failed is the only way to move past this, so I think the infighting is necessary- finding out what direction the party needs to move. Its the perfect time for the progressives to make their mark, the situation with the Dakota Access Pipeline reinvigorated my optimism. Bernie was there at the white house, loudly protesting it and in the back of my mind, even as a supporter I thought he was wasting his time but something actually came of it. Who would have known.

Don't you have your own party collapse to go agitate over? Corbyn can't destroy liberalism all on his own. He's going to need your help!

 

[whyamihere]

Though your liberal elites might get enjoy this article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/06/w...ef=europe&smid=tw-nytimesworld&smtyp=cur&_r=0

KULESZE KOSCIELNE, Poland — The red-tiled roofs of this tiny village cluster around the soaring steeples of St. Bartholomew Church like medieval cottages at the base of a castle, alienated from the cosmopolitan life of cities such as Warsaw by a chasm that is economic, cultural and political.

Asking how many people here attend Sunday Mass elicits puzzlement. Everyone, of course. There are no shopping malls, no car-choked boulevards and no doubt where political sentiments lie: The village voted 83 percent for Poland’s ruling populist party, joining a rural electoral wave that swept the party to power a year ago — even as urbanites in Warsaw gave it less than a third of their vote.

“The elites in the city are detached from reality,” said Joszef Grochowski, 60, a lifelong village resident and mayor since 2003. “They no longer understand the needs of ordinary people.”

Populist, anti-establishment political parties are on the move in Europe. If they are far from homogeneous, these parties share common ground in their core constituencies, rural voters. Just as Donald J. Trump rolled up a big rural vote in his unexpected presidential victory, Europe’s populists are rising by tapping into discontent in the countryside and exploiting rural resentments against urban residents viewed as elites.

The parallels are striking: Mr. Trump played on issues such as immigration, trade and globalization, while attacking elites in both parties and mocking political correctness. European populists routinely hammer the same themes while also bashing the European Union as a technocratic colossus wrongly undermining the sovereignty of individual nations.

And voting against the big-city elites who they think belittle them can be doubly satisfying, analysts say. Rural residents say they are often mocked and marginalized as backward for choosing the traditional, slow-paced life their grandparents lived, and also derided as bigots for their reluctance to embrace the more ethnically diverse, sexually open worldview of the cities.

“We are living the same lives, of course,” said Pawel Spiewak, a sociologist at the University of Warsaw. “We have the same cars. But we are listening to different music. We are using different words. We are even eating completely different things.”

In some cases, the politicians leading the populist revolt are similar to Mr. Trump in that they come from the ranks of the rich or the politically privileged. Andrej Babis, a Czech billionaire who started his own party, is considered likely to be his country’s next president. Jaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of Poland’s governing Law and Justice Party, has been a potent political force for decades but has deftly positioned his party as populist outsiders.

“Trump may be a billionaire, but he is also absolutely despised by the elites and that alone has given him a tremendous advantage among people from poorer, rural areas,” said Jaroslaw Fils, a sociologist at Jagiellonian University in Krakow, noting that Mr. Kaczynski has exploited the same resentments in Poland.

“On paper, he is hardly a hero for the underprivileged, but, again, he is so despised by the Polish elites that he has become someone the people in the country can identify with.”

Europe’s populists cannot be defined strictly through a right-left lens. Some are right wing, while others are left wing. Some want to draw closer to Russia, others to the West. In the formerly Communist nations of Eastern Europe, populists on the left and the right woo rural voters by playing off nostalgia for lost greatness, and the old era of authoritarian leaders and governments that provided for people.

“Where the countryside was mobilized,” said Marian Lesko, a political analyst in Slovakia, “victory belonged to coalitions that weren’t the biggest fans of liberal democracy and democratic values.”

This is why populists on the left and the right are strong in the countryside. In the Czech Republic, Milos Zeman, the populist left-wing president, draws greater support outside the capital. In Hungary, the right-wing ruling party of Prime Minister Viktor Orban also does best outside the capital of Budapest.

In the Baltic nation of Lithuania, anti-establishment fervor has coalesced around the Peasant’s and Greens Union, which stormed to victory in the fall parliamentary elections on a populist platform and strong rural support leery of the immigrants filing into the country’s cities.

Distrust of outsiders runs deep. When Poland voted in 2004 to join the European Union, a national majority voted yes. In Kulesze Koscielne, sentiment was strong the other way. Even as villagers now recognize the benefits brought to Poland by joining the European bloc, there is also irritation over issues such as homosexuality and immigration.

AND JUST TO BE SUPER ICY:

A short walk down the main street, Jolantyna Kaminska, the headmistress of the village school, sat in her sparse office with the sound of children occasionally permeating the thick walls. She said she knew many urbanites considered village life claustrophobic, yet it is this cultural conformity that makes people feel safe.

Village residents do not feel antipathy toward those in the big city, she said. If anything, they pity them for losing touch with Poland’s traditional values.

“In the big city,” she said, “they have the freedom — or, I would say, the frivolousness of thinking.”

 

[Dan]

Maybe the unwanted attention from this specific bit of fake news, but not the fact that they tweeted fake news in general. The president elect did it all campaign, and will do it again while in office.

I don't mean to suggest they discovered some kind of ethics or morals. No, it's strictly the undesirable attention, not the acts themselves, that led to Michael G. Flynn being fired.

 

[sc0la]

I don't mean to suggest they discovered some kind of ethics or morals. No, it's strictly the undesirable attention, not the acts themselves, that led to Michael G. Flynn being fired.

we on the same page *fist bump*

 

[Azzanadra]

Don't you have your own party collapse to go agitate over? Corbyn can't destroy liberalism all on his own. He's going to need your help!

whoareyoutalkingto.gif

What's Corbyn got to do with anything? Though Corbyn's re-election as leader is a triumph of democracy and human decency, and its good to see that likewise the progressives are re-emerging in America, FDR would be proud.

And what's with this notion that progressives are destroying liberalism? They are the only ones preserving it, you think Obama would have done anything about the Dakota access pipeline if he wasn't practically shamed into doing it? And that was only after his police goons maimed a poor protester.

 

[Kai Dracon]

This is my favorite typo of the week btw

Well I suppose these bastards do have hours to sit around thinking about how to fuck people over!

 

[shinra-bansho]

He thought you were British. Also.

Though Corbyn's re-election as leader is a triumph of democracy and human decency

Lmao.

 

[Debirudog]

Corbyn's re-election is more like the eternal screaming fuckery of ineffective purity politics.

 

[whyamihere]

Though Corbyn's re-election as leader is a triumph of democracy and human decency

o dear

 

[kirblar]

That pipeline is going ahead when Trump is sworn in anyway.

It's still going ahead, the question is where.

And to dogpile, Corbyn is liberal crybaby do-nothing-ness personified.

 

[shinra-bansho]

It will go where it was going. Trumpence will appoint the new Jo-Ellen Darcy.
Congress can also just add an appropriations rider to clear the way.

 

[Kevitivity]

Am I the only one who just doesn't click links from:

Vox
Slate
HuffPost
ThinkProgress
Politico
DailyKos
TPM

Seems to be a great strategy for sanity

I still scan these sites to see what the very far left is thinking. Yes, it's depressing, hysterical stuff, but I find it useful to keep track of.

 

[kirblar]

I still scan these sites to see what the very far left is thinking. Yes, it's depressing, hysterical stuff, but I find it useful to keep track of.

Vox, Slate, TPM aren't far left.

Politico is a dumpster.

 

[pigeon]

Vox, Slate, TPM aren't far left.

Politico is a dumpster.

Kevitity supported America's own white supremacist for president, as I remember, so his definitions are likely to be different from yours.

 

[Kevitivity]

Kevitity supported America's own white supremacist for president, as I remember, so his definitions are likely to be different from yours.

I'm a libertarian.

 

[davepoobond]

This gives me an idea. Obama should do a bunch of executive orders and similar actions just so trump has to waste time undoing them.

usually that happens anyway -- arguably Obama already did it with the overtime rules, transgender bathroom policy, federal contractor minimum wage stuff


all of it gets repealed, its essentially a grenade Obama is lobbying to the next president

 

[jack_package_200]

I'm a libertarian.

Did you guys find out what a leppo is yet?

 

[Kevitivity]

Did you guys find out what a leppo is yet?

I don't vote the party ticket.

Anyway, lets get back to why the Democrats are losers.

 

[shinra-bansho]

“We’re going to make up $16 million investment in that factory in Indianapolis to automate to drive the cost down so that we can continue to be competitive. Now is it as cheap as moving to Mexico with lower cost labor? No. But we will make that plant competitive just because we’ll make the capital investments there.”
...
“But what that ultimately means is there will be fewer jobs.”

Carrier CEO.

Also...

“There was a cost as we thought about keeping the Indiana plant open. At the same time — and I’ll tell you this because you and I — we know each other, but I was born at night but not last night. I also know that about 10 percent of our revenue comes from the U.S. government.”

 

[Oblivion]

Am I the only one who just doesn't click links from:

Vox
Slate
HuffPost
ThinkProgress
Politico
DailyKos
TPM

Seems to be a great strategy for sanity

Uh...Vox, Slate, ThinkProgress, DK, and TPM are all pretty decent. Vox might be a bit too smug center-leftist, but it's alright.

 

[And_Gignac]

Uh oh, looks like Melkr's having a she-mergency!

Yara really fucked it up. Alexis was STOMPING on Raven. Ugh. Kinda like when Sanders had it all figured it out but no, Hillary needed her moment.

That's Mitten's number, not Birdie's.
Also, what narrative? Winning nothing, be it the primary, lower race primaries and elections, ballot measures - clearly provides a compelling narrative. A mandate and authority.

Seriously, what movement?
Where is this movement?
The organisation, whose name no one even remembers, has done zero and from memory already imploded.

What tangibles have been delivered? Go on.

The movement is called populism. The Democratic Party is clearly moving towards that direction. The down ticket failures were a result of a terrible, the most terrible candidate at the upper ticket. There's no organization, correct, but the motive and sentiments of the Sanders campaign are clearly the direction the narrative inside the Dem Party is moving towards. The Clinton way died with her and camp failure to even protect Obama's legacy and fhsbxhshjsssjsb I am done with this tbh. The clown is president, everyone failed.

 

[Oblivion]

Carrier CEO.

Also...

Trump only makes the best deals.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yara really fucked it up. Alexis was STOMPING on Raven. Ugh. Kinda like when Sanders had it all figure it out but no, Hillary needed her moment.

He had it all figured out yet lost by 3.5 million votes.

 

[Odrion]

Yara really fucked it up. Alexis was STOMPING on Raven. Ugh. Kinda like when Sanders had it all figured it out but no, Hillary needed her moment.



The movement is called populism. The Democratic Party is clearly moving towards that direction. The down ticket failures were a result of a terrible, the most terrible candidate at the upper ticket. There's no organization, correct, but the motive and sentiments of the Sanders campaign are clearly the direction the narrative inside the Dem Party is moving towards. The Clinton way died with her and camp failure to even protect Obama's legacy and fhsbxhshjsssjsb I am done with this tbh. The clown is president, everyone failed.

Speaking anecdotally my local DNC group is now drinking the populist kool-aid by the gallon. Feels like the only liberals whose souls weren't snatched by this election are those folks.

 

[noshten]

Haha seriously people most of us are old enough to remember 2008 and even voted in it. Bernie was a shitty candidate and didnt do what he needed to do to win and was demolished by votes. Just stahp lol

A shitty candidate lost to Trump. Obama was simply in another stratosphere and it should be very clear to everyone Clinton would have capitulated in 2008 unless Obama was her VP pick.

Your point is? You are purely deflecting, since you apparently missed this very obvious point and post last page:

keep tolerating those types of posts by Amir0x and others afterwards talk to me about deflection after the Queen lost to a reality tv star with ZERO qualifications

 

[Suikoguy]

A shitty candidate lost to Trump.

Your point is? You are purely deflecting, since you apparently missed this very obvious point and post last page:

That's Mitten's number, not Birdie's.
Also, what narrative? Winning nothing, be it the primary, lower race primaries and elections, ballot measures - clearly provides a compelling narrative. A mandate and authority.

Seriously, what movement?
Where is this movement?
The organisation, whose name no one even remembers, has done zero and from memory already imploded.

What tangibles have been delivered? Go on.

- - -

The movement is called populism. The Democratic Party is clearly moving towards that direction. The down ticket failures were a result of a terrible, the most terrible candidate at the upper ticket. There's no organization, correct, but the motive and sentiments of the Sanders campaign are clearly the direction the narrative inside the Dem Party is moving towards. The Clinton way died with her and camp failure to even protect Obama's legacy and fhsbxhshjsssjsb I am done with this tbh. The clown is president, everyone failed.

This is hillarious.

So you are basically proving the point that BernieBros have to have their anointed one at the top of the ticket to get out to vote?

I've been arguing that for weeks now, thanks for agreeing with me.

But, now you need to explain why the Dems need to cater to these special flowers who stay home if they don't get what they want. Especially when they have candidates down-ticket that are exactly what they want.

A shitty candidate lost to Trump. Obama was simply in another stratosphere and it should be very clear to everyone Clinton would have capitulated in 2008 unless Obama was her VP pick.



keep tolerating those types of posts by Amir0x and others afterwards talk to me about deflection after the Queen lost to a reality tv star with ZERO qualifications

Did you seriously just edit in a deflection of a deflection?

Keep Fucking that chicken BernieBros.

 

[PInk Tape]

Can we stop with this stupid fucking bullshit about Bernie and Hillary already? It's over. They both fucking lost and now here we are still fighting the battle but the war is over. We need to get past this otherwise we're gonna get creamed in '18 and '20. Bernie and Hillary are out there fighting this orange fucking monster. How about we follow their example because I don't want 8 years of this shit.

Sorry for being angry but man, we gotta wake up already. The man is so damaging and he's not even president yet.

Thank you. We should have moved on from this weeks ago, lbr.

That pipeline is going ahead when Trump is sworn in anyway.

You're right

*sigh*

 

[Pixieking]

That pipeline is going ahead when Trump is sworn in anyway.

Which sucks, but is yet another thing to shove in the faces of the Dems who didn't vote, or used the "both sides" argument. People can't expect either their inaction or their disingenuous arguments to not have consequences.

Hopefully, the pipeline will be another thing which can be used to motivate the Dem base to get out in 2018.

 

[noshten]

It hilarious when Obama the "once in a lifetime" candidate got people to go out to vote and when you want someone to try an emulate that - you get attacked for it. Yes we want charisma and populism because otherwise we get Gore, Kerry and Hillary with a bunch of Ls. Losing to Bush twice because of awful platform and candidates was bad but finding a candidate so bad she ended up losing to Trump.... well that is a whole other level of failure.

 

[Pixieking]

Just dropping this here, since it seems a good point to remind people:

Dave Wasserman Verified account
‏@Redistrict

It now looks quite possible Clinton will end up w/ more votes than Obama 65.9 million in '12. Now ~400k behind: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/133Eb4qQmOxNvtesw2hdVns073R68EZx4SfCnP4IGQf8/edit#gid=19 …

Let's remember that Hillary lost because of, what, 100,000 votes across 3 states? Bernie Bros can wibble all they want about how he would've won, but that doesn't make Hillary 1) uncharismatic, 2) bad at policy, or 3) a bad candidate. 100,000 idiots afraid of automation, jobs going to Mexico, or wanting coal jobs back. That's it. Nothing more.

 

[Odrion]

This is hillarious.

So you are basically proving the point that BernieBros have to have their anointed one at the top of the ticket to get out to vote?

That's not what he said. You're coming off as unhinged.

This thread may be better off if we banned primary drama.

 

[Pixieking]

That's not what he said. You're coming off as unhinged.

This thread may be better off if we banned primary drama.

I really like this idea. It does nothing except drive discussion off the rails and annoy, I think.

 

[i_am_ben]

Manners, people.

 

[Aaron Strife]

It hilarious when Obama the "once in a lifetime" candidate got people to go out to vote and when you want someone to try an emulate that - you get attacked for it. Yes we want charisma and populism because otherwise we get Gore, Kerry and Hillary with a bunch of Ls. Losing to Bush twice because of awful platform and candidates was bad but finding a candidate so bad she ended up losing to Trump.... well that is a whole other level of failure.

I think a true once in a lifetime candidate would be able to win California.

Spoiler

I will stop bringing this up when you acknowledge it

I really like this idea. It does nothing except drive discussion off the rails and annoy, I think.

I personally would like to ban all talk of the next primary until after the 2018 elections. It's not terribly productive at this juncture.

 

[Odrion]

Just dropping this here, since it seems a good point to remind people:



Let's remember that Hillary lost because of, what, 100,000 votes across 3 states? Bernie Bros can wibble all they want about how he would've won, but that doesn't make Hillary 1) uncharismatic, 2) bad at policy, or 3) a bad candidate. 100,000 idiots afraid of automation, jobs going to Mexico, or wanting coal jobs back. That's it. Nothing more.

Yeah, we need to nip the "we got to be more right-center" or "we need to throw minorities under the bus" or "we can't have another woman run for president" in the bud. If the polls weren't so harshly wrong and Hillary tried harder to secure the rust belt instead of trying to do things like make Texas go blue, we wouldn't be talking about any of this.

 

[teruterubozu]

Yara really fucked it up. Alexis was STOMPING on Raven. Ugh. Kinda like when Sanders had it all figured it out but no, Hillary needed her moment.



The movement is called populism. The Democratic Party is clearly moving towards that direction. The down ticket failures were a result of a terrible, the most terrible candidate at the upper ticket. There's no organization, correct, but the motive and sentiments of the Sanders campaign are clearly the direction the narrative inside the Dem Party is moving towards. The Clinton way died with her and camp failure to even protect Obama's legacy and fhsbxhshjsssjsb I am done with this tbh. The clown is president, everyone failed.

Not just the clown, we're getting the entire clown car in his cabinet. Man, remember when we used to laugh at the clown car? Those were fun times.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Yeah, we need to nip the "we got to be more right-center" or "we need to throw minorities under the bus" or "we can't have another woman run for president" in the bud. If the polls weren't so harshly wrong and Hillary tried harder to secure the rust belt instead of trying to do things like make Texas go blue, we wouldn't be talking about any of this.

Agreed. Hillary's campaign ultimately was playing for a landslide when they should have concerned themselves more with 270. If that means putting on a hard hat and walking around a factory in some dinky ass rural town in the Midwest, so be it. Obama was right on the money - it's not about winning these rural counties, it's about losing them by 20 points instead of 50.

Given its closeness, I think playing for Arizona next time would be acceptable and maybe even prudent (if the Rust Belt is slipping away, best to make up for it elsewhere). Elsewhere, like Texas or Georgia? Nah. Not yet. Even if polls have us up 10 points in the next round of GE polling three days before the election, I'm not comfortable taking that risk. Invest in Senate and House elections, absolutely.

2020 battleground for Democrats should be three-pronged, win back the Midwest (PA/MI/WI), hold down our marginal states (MN, CO, NV, NH, VA - while the last was a slightly larger win some of that can be attributed to Kaine's spot on the ticket), play for the closer Sun Belt states (FL, NC, AZ). Ohio/Iowa and Texas/Georgia are extensions of the former and latter prerogatives but should be treated the same way Obama's campaign treated states like Indiana and Missouri in 2008.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Republicans on cnn taking credit for the job numbers of last month

 

[Aaron Strife]

Republicans on cnn taking credit for the job numbers of last month

And when we hit a recession after Trump starts a trade war with China or something equally stupid they'll pin it on Obama. Can't wait.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

And when we hit a recession after Trump starts a trade war with China or something equally stupid they'll pin it on Obama. Can't wait.

Of course, but blaming the previous President never really works, either. As we've seen.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Of course, but blaming the previous President never really works, either. As we've seen.

This is true. I think Obama got away with it a little since we were still in recovery after a really shitty recession, but a recession that starts under a new president is usually owned pretty hard by that president.

Remember the "Bush recovery" fucking lord :jnc

 

[Amir0x]

A shitty candidate lost to Trump. Obama was simply in another stratosphere and it should be very clear to everyone Clinton would have capitulated in 2008 unless Obama was her VP pick.

I think she is still a wonderful candidate, but it does. Not. Matter. It is over and now we must fight Trump every step of the way.

keep tolerating those types of posts by Amir0x and others afterwards talk to me about deflection after the Queen lost to a reality tv star with ZERO qualifications

And Bernie was beat by the "queen" who lost to the tv reality star with zero qualifications. He was a terrible candidate who did not do what he needed to do to secure the Democratic coalition and win enough votes.

Why does this keep getting relitigated? Hillary won more votes than virtually any presidential candidate in history sans Obama. She lost because of the electoral college with 100,000 combined votes across three shitty, racist working class white states. It is over, and now we fight Trump. Nominating Sanders would not have let us win.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Why does this keep getting relitigated? Hillary won more votes than virtually any presidential candidate in history sans Obama. She lost because of the electoral college with 100,000 combined votes across three shitty, racist working class white states. It is over, and now we fight Trump. Nominating Sanders would not have let us win.

Oh we're just getting started. Even last summer there were still people claiming that Howard Dean, who finished third in the Democratic primary and only won his home state and DC, would have beaten Bush in '04.

 

[Pixieking]

I personally would like to ban all talk of the next primary until after the 2018 elections. It's not terribly productive at this juncture.

Yeah, this sounds good.

Meanwhile...

Clinton’s Failure With the Working Class Had Little to Do With Trump Voters

The upshot: Clinton didn’t need to win over a single white Trump voter to win Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania by comfortable margins. She just needed to turn out working-class Democrats.

It’s possible that Clinton’s failure to do was unrelated to her campaign messaging. But considering the size of the drop-off, the burden of proof should lie with the defense.

It’s undeniably true that Clinton put together a progressive economic platform that, if enacted, would have made a positive difference in the lives of working-class voters. And she did tout that platform in some of her most widely viewed public appearances.

But it’s also true that Clinton did not center her campaign on a single, simple economic narrative.