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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Mirand said:
Kander sounding strong on Keepin It 1600

gd it hurts that he lost
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He kind of hit the nail on the head with his analogy about Trump's messaging versus Clinton's messaging. Hope the Dem party listens to him. He (unintentionally) shows the striking difference of being in a political bubble (Oval Office, NYC, Oval Office) versus having to campaign in hostile territory. Kander's pretty much following the Clinton policy script but his messaging allowed him to run something like 16-18 points ahead of her.

Was a pretty awesome interview.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Trump and the GOP pass a law saying all businesses can discriminate based on sexual orientation. It's explicitly written to disallow states from having their own laws about it.

California and Jerry Brown say "lol no" and do not implement the laws and continue to punish those who do it.

What does Donald Trump do? What happens when Washington, Oregon, Massachusetts and New York join California? Does he send in the army to enforce discrimination? Does he arrest Brown and Cuomo and the others? What if there are protests in blue states he doesn't like? And the governors aren't stopping them. Does he "handle" them himself? Does this cause the cracks in the country and the start of a potential second civil war?

I just don't see CA playing nice with Trump. The 6th largest economy in the world has a lot of weight to throw around. What CA doesn't want, CA doesn't do. But I also don't see Trump handling a state saying "nope, not doing that." He doesn't seem capable of being told no, because he believes he has absolute power and how dare California ignore him.
 
S

studyguy

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
Trump and the GOP pass a law saying all businesses can discriminate based on sexual orientation. It's explicitly written to disallow states from having their own laws about it.

California and Jerry Brown say "lol no" and do not implement the laws and continue to punish those who do it.

What does Donald Trump do? What happens when Washington, Oregon, Massachusetts and New York join California? Does he send in the army to enforce discrimination? Does he arrest Brown and Cuomo and the others? What if there are protests in blue states he doesn't like? And the governors aren't stopping them. Does he "handle" them himself? Does this cause the cracks in the country and the start of a potential second civil war?

I just don't see CA playing nice with Trump. The 6th largest economy in the world has a lot of weight to throw around. What CA doesn't want, CA doesn't do. But I also don't see Trump handling a state saying "nope, not doing that." He doesn't seem capable of being told no, because he believes he has absolute power and how dare California ignore him.
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They ignore CA's existence is my full expectation tbh. It's less of a matter of Trump making his demands known as much as making sure states like CA become a thorn in his administration's side. If they can challenge federal laws then I'd like to see what happens if things move up the courts.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
balladofwindfishes said:
Trump and the GOP pass a law saying all businesses can discriminate based on sexual orientation. It's explicitly written to disallow states from having their own laws about it.

California and Jerry Brown say "lol no" and do not implement the laws and continue to punish those who do it.

What does Donald Trump do? What happens when Washington, Oregon, Massachusetts and New York join California? Does he send in the army to enforce discrimination? Does he arrest Brown and Cuomo and the others? What if there are protests in blue states he doesn't like? And the governors aren't stopping them. Does he "handle" them himself? Does this cause the cracks in the country and the start of a potential second civil war?

I just don't see CA playing nice with Trump. The 6th largest economy in the world has a lot of weight to throw around. What CA doesn't want, CA doesn't do. But I also don't see Trump handling a state saying "nope, not doing that." He doesn't seem capable of being told no, because he believes he has absolute power and how dare California ignore him.
Click to expand...

I straight up think this is the most important question we will face in the next four years.

If they ignore California then we get a "soft secession." Once states see they can just opt out of federal government regulations then they'll do it. Then red states will do the same. It'll be a patchwork of federalism.

If they try to pressure California with funding or something, then it's a little harder. California can survive with less federal funding, especially if it responds by withholding funding it sends to the federal government. Other states probably can't as easily, but they might be able to work with California. Ends up like the above, but starker. Maybe some quasi-official successor states, like a Cascadian-Hawaii trade organization.

If they try to pressure California with military force...things get more complicated.

And of course there's also the option where California just caves, but that's the worst-case scenario.
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
aspiegamer said:
Denying climate change is real is one thing. Mocking the mere idea and blaming it on the Chinese is another thing. But to vindictively go and seek out people who were simply doing their jobs by following administration policy? And from an administration that in actuality dramatically expanded America's energy industry? The fuck is that about?
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Revenge.

And for the ultimate ad hominem attacks. Collect all possible info now and "leak" it to industry as soon as possible. Then the various researchers will subtly start being discredited by the "media", and in conjunction their research findings will become tainted. And that way no research will be reliable by the time legislation is proposed and debated. Then the people are laid off and won't get industry jobs and will have to go to "liberal academia".

It is highly similar to the various subpoenas that Congress Committees have been issuing over time on the topic. Learn what evidence the enemy has, discredit the enemy, and thus discredit their evidence.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
balladofwindfishes said:
Trump and the GOP pass a law saying all businesses can discriminate based on sexual orientation. It's explicitly written to disallow states from having their own laws about it.

California and Jerry Brown say "lol no" and do not implement the laws and continue to punish those who do it.

What does Donald Trump do? What happens when Washington, Oregon, Massachusetts and New York join California? Does he send in the army to enforce discrimination? Does he arrest Brown and Cuomo and the others? What if there are protests in blue states he doesn't like? And the governors aren't stopping them. Does he "handle" them himself? Does this cause the cracks in the country and the start of a potential second civil war?

I just don't see CA playing nice with Trump. The 6th largest economy in the world has a lot of weight to throw around. What CA doesn't want, CA doesn't do. But I also don't see Trump handling a state saying "nope, not doing that." He doesn't seem capable of being told no, because he believes he has absolute power and how dare California ignore him.
Click to expand...

To me, this is the most fascinating thing of the whole next 4 years. For years, republicans were screaming about "States' rights!!!" whenever something they didn't agree with would occur.

The hypocrisy is going to be insane.

Carpe Libertatem said:
Like Peter Thiel would ever get confirmed :lol
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Every single one of Trump's picks will be confirmed. He hates looking bad or like he lost. The GOP is going to allow every single one of these people through.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
Plinko said:
Every single one of Trump's picks will be confirmed. He hates looking bad or like he lost. The GOP is going to allow every single one of these people through.
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Feel free to think this. It's not reality. The GOP isn't as unified as you seem to think it is.

How soon we forget Harriet Miers. Peter Thiel would experience the same thing.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Carpe Libertatem said:
Feel free to think this. It's not reality. The GOP isn't as unified as you seem to think it is.
Click to expand...

And you feel free to keep thinking this president and governmental situation is anywhere near like anything we've seen recently.

Show me one instance in the past two years where Trump has accepted a loss like that. Turning his pick away makes him look terrible. He won't accept it. He'll threaten people with isolation or primarying, and then they'll approve it.

In other news, by far the most popular people on the democratic side right now are Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders. More people absolutely need to step up. Who do you think we see do this over the next two years? Will Ellison's role at the DNC push him into the spotlight? Will we see somebody young and energetic like Harris or Booker step up and start making waves?
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
Plinko said:
And you feel free to keep thinking this president and governmental situation is anywhere near like anything we've seen recently.

Show me one instance in the past two years where Trump has accepted a loss like that. Turning his pick away makes him look terrible. He won't accept it. He'll threaten people with isolation or primarying, and then they'll approve it.
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Campaigns and political office are not the same thing.

Frankly, I don't think Trump is dumb enough to nominage Thiel to be a Supreme Court justice because I'm sure he has people telling him that it will be a uphill battle. He wants an easy win. Thiel is not going to be an easy win. Same reason why he hasn't picked Giuliani yet for State.

The GOP has narrow control of the Senate. It's not like it's a huge majority. Trump has very little room for error.

cartoon_soldier said:
GOP is unified behind their President.
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I disagree. I don't think the Freedom Caucus is just going to go away once they realize Trump isn't what they thought. It's already started happening with the IRS fight.
 
G

geomon

Member
Evangelicals propose truce over LGBTQ rights in hopes of ‘Fairness for All’

According to the website, leaders have met with more than 200 leaders in 9 cities to “discreetly” discuss their options going forward, but there is no mention of whether the groups have made any contact with organizations on the other side, like the Human Rights Campaign and the National LGBTQ Task Force. LGBTQNation reached out to both HRC and the Task Force for comment before press time.

So why compromise? Christianity Today presented its readers with the findings of a recent poll that suggested Americans are evenly split over who’s right and who’s wrong when it comes to the battle between “religious freedom” and LGBTQ rights.

“For example, the Pew Research Center found this fall that 48 percent of Americans believe that owners of wedding-related businesses should be able to refuse services to same-sex couples if they have religious objections, while 49 percent of Americans believe those owners should be required to serve same-sex couples.”

“What we’re looking at here is potentially a paradigm-shifting option,” said Shapri D. LoMaglio, the CCCU’s vice president for government and external relations. “The way that these two sets of rights have been talked about most often has been that they must compete. If something like this was to go forward, what might that mean about how we differently or better understand rights? Rights need not always be secured by one group at the expense of another group.”

So much for “Fairness for All.”
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I've got a compromise for them. They can go fuck themselves, that's my compromise. Seriously? You want to compromise and negotiate for equal rights for people you don't even see as human beings?

All this is, is them wanting to continue to discriminate against LGBTQ people without retaliation, which they're going to get anyway due to religious freedom laws that will sweep the nation the next 4 years. They can kiss my ass.
 
G

geomon

Member
Trump to name Goldman Sachs veteran, Gary Cohn, to head National Economic Council

President-elect Donald Trump is expected to name a top Goldman Sachs executive, Gary Cohn, to lead the National Economic Council, handing the Wall Street veteran significant sway over his administration's economic policy.

The council includes the heads of various departments and agencies and works within the administration to coordinate economic policy. As director, Cohn would would be in position to advise Trump as he attempts to fulfill some of his chief campaign promises, including lowering corporate taxes and rethinking U.S. trade policy.

Trump intends to formally name Cohn to the post, which does not require Senate confirmation, but additional details remained unclear, according to a transition official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity and was not authorized to speak publicly. The expected appointment was first reported by NBC News.

In Cohn, Trump would once again be picking a veteran of a New York investment bank that he repeatedly denounced during the campaign. During the campaign Trump argued that Goldman held “total control” over both Democrat Hillary Clinton and GOP rival Ted Cruz and he even released a television ad that flashed an image of Goldman Sachs Chief Executive Lloyd Blankfein and warned of a “global power structure” that was robbing American workers.
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lol, ah fuck. It's almost enough to just make me walk into the ocean, never to return.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
A energy company CEO as SecState, having to go around doing hard stuff with a bunch of countries that have stare-run energy companies that are highly important to their economies that dislike how much the American energy industry has expanded under Obama? That's simultaneously a conflict of interest and dangerous as hell.

Funny that we're dramatically less concerned about conflict of interest and corruption for an energy giant than the rather small (by comparison) business holdings of the incoming POTUS. That's how untrustworthy Trump is. People are apparently fine putting total faith in an oil company or massive investment bank when presented the option. At least we're used to that level of corruption.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
https://twitter.com/MichaelSLinden/status/807277176945053699

Michael Linden ‏@MichaelSLinden 2 hours ago
Oh hey, the GOP Chair of the House subcommittee on Social Security just introduced a new bill to massively cut SS benefits. 1/

Michael Linden ‏@MichaelSLinden 2 hours ago
I mean massively. Most workers would see their benefits cut by more than 10 percent. 2/

Michael Linden ‏@MichaelSLinden 2 hours ago
Many would suffer even deeper cuts. For example, benefits to workers making about 50k would shrink by between 11 and 35%! 35 percent!! 3/

Michael Linden ‏@MichaelSLinden 2 hours ago
Some very low income workers get held harmless, but not all. Worker at $12k who only has 14 years of work history gets cut up to ~50%!! 4/

Michael Linden ‏@MichaelSLinden 2 hours ago
This is the GOP plan for Social Security. Enormous cuts for nearly all workers. Not a single penny of additional revenue from the rich. 5/

Michael Linden ‏@MichaelSLinden 2 hours ago
Here's the link to the SS Actuaries report on the new GOP plan to cut benefits. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/solvency/SJohnson_20161208.pdf …

Michael Linden ‏@MichaelSLinden 2 hours ago
Just take a gander at Table B2 if you think I'm exaggerating the magnitude and breadth of the proposed Social Security cuts.

Michael Linden ‏@MichaelSLinden 1 hour ago
One last important note: some of the proposed benefit cuts would start as soon as January 2019! 2 years from now!

Michael Linden ‏@MichaelSLinden 31 minutes ago
Late addition to the thread (h/t @BBKogan): You may not believe it but this proposal also includes a...wait for it...tax CUT for the rich.

Michael Linden ‏@MichaelSLinden 27 minutes ago
It would REDUCE the amount of revenue that high-income people contribute to the Trust Funds, which means the benefit cuts are even larger.
Click to expand...
 
P

pigeon

Banned
whyamihere said:
Poor Rudy!
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I was actually just going to post that it's important to note the primary way the GOP senate will roadblock nominations is not by stopping them on the floor but just by telling the administration privately to nominate someone else.

It's no coincidence that lots of the craziest Trumpists are getting filtered out of consideration, that the ones who are getting spots are getting spots that aren't up for confirmation, and that the most extreme people in nomination spots are people who are long-time GOP politicians and already have establishment sign-off.
 
K

Kevinroc

Member
Randolph Freelander said:
https://twitter.com/MichaelSLinden/status/807277176945053699
Click to expand...

Some of his responses are also important.

https://twitter.com/MichaelSLinden/status/807285392437379072

Cy_Guy ‏@Cy_Guy 2h2 hours ago
@MichaelSLinden How do you introduce a bill when this session of the House is essentially over?

Michael Linden
‏@MichaelSLinden
@Cy_Guy It's a marker. He's setting out the GOP's position going into next year. It won't pass like this, but we should take it seriously.
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https://twitter.com/MichaelSLinden/status/807290914108538880?lang=en

Georgiana ‏@gspunky245 1h1 hour ago
@MichaelSLinden @LOLGOP how does this affect those already on social security? Will checks be reduced?

Michael Linden
‏@MichaelSLinden
@gspunky245 @LOLGOP If passed, yes, it would affect current beneficiaries. Lower annual inflation adjustments, mainly.
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/MichaelSLinden/status/807303757834964992?lang=en

This bill is H.R. 6489, the Social Security Reform Act of 2016.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
pigeon said:
I was actually just going to post that it's important to note the primary way the GOP senate will roadblock nominations is not by stopping them on the floor but just by telling the administration privately to nominate someone else.

It's no coincidence that lots of the craziest Trumpists are getting filtered out of consideration, that the ones who are getting spots are getting spots that aren't up for confirmation, and that the most extreme people in nomination spots are people who are long-time GOP politicians and already have establishment sign-off.
Click to expand...

ben carson
 
H

Hooligan69

Member
metalslimer said:
The AARP better get ready to mobilize. The GOP going full steam ahead against entitlements is the one thing that could hand democrats seats in 2018.
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Plus the fact that we're in the midst of the baby boomer retirement surge. They better put up a fight, since so much can be blamed on baby boomers fucking so much up for the rest of us.

Part of me wants to see the boomers fucked over hard, since they had no future vision of commonwealth, but only if it served them personally. Obviously, not all of them, but enough to cause the shithole we're in today.
 
B

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
W

Wilsongt

Member
Kevinroc said:
Some of his responses are also important.

https://twitter.com/MichaelSLinden/status/807285392437379072



https://twitter.com/MichaelSLinden/status/807290914108538880?lang=en



https://twitter.com/MichaelSLinden/status/807303757834964992?lang=en

This bill is H.R. 6489, the Social Security Reform Act of 2016.
Click to expand...


As someone who works for social security, knows what people have to go through to get benefits, and know how little some of these people have, anyway....

Fuck the GOP.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Keith Ellison on Sean Hannity in 2013

Been a while since I've seen that interview. I remember cringing so hard at how upfront and abrasive he was being for a congressperson, but in the post-Trump era, it seems like the obvious way to act in hostile interviews.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Hooligan69 said:
Plus the fact that we're in the midst of the baby boomer retirement surge. They better put up a fight, since so much can be blamed on baby boomers fucking so much up for the rest of us.

Part of me wants to see the boomers fucked over hard, since they had no future vision of commonwealth, but only if it served them personally. Obviously, not all of them, but enough to cause the shithole we're in today.
Click to expand...

I'd rather not see my grandparents suffer. I care about them a lot. Without medicare/social security, I'm not even sure my grandpa could continue to live at home as he does now. He has a nurse that comes in to help my grandma for 6 hours a day, and without that, his health and her health would probably suffer.

It seems a lot of liberals are getting really jaded and bitter after the election. And I understand why, but I still don't like seeing other people wish suffering onto others, even if they did do it to themselves and they probably "deserve it"
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Surprise! Repealing the ACA also gives a tax break to the wealthy!

The taxes in question are known as the Medicare tax on higher income individuals and the net investment income tax. The former is a 0.9 percent tax placed on those who earn $200,000 or more individually (or $250,000 for married couples who file jointly). It comes on top of the Medicare payroll tax employees pay together with their employers, but only applies to the income that exceeds the $200,000 threshold.

The net investment income tax is a 3.8 percent levy meant to complement the Medicare payroll tax, since investment income was not previously taxed in that way. It applies on investment income, such as such as capital gains, dividends and interest income, for those making $200,000 or more.

A Tax Policy Center report found that the repeal of the net investment income tax would equate to $154,000 in annual savings for earners in the top 0.1 percent.
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And to think, if only 100k people spread across 3 states actually voted, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Oh well.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/surprise-repealing-obamacare-includes-a-big-tax-cut-for-the-rich
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Said this in the other thread, but I'd rather have Giuliani than Exxon CEO as SoS. Giuliani actually has political experience.

As for the Social Security and ACA stuff, this is just the tip of the iceberg. 4 years full of this stuff. If the democrats can't take back control in 2020 after this, they should give up. The working class is going to be in shambles.
 
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