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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Pixieking said:
I haven't heard a single thing from the "drain the swamp" crowd in weeks. I'm tempted to say that they're just hypocritical as fuck, and are of the belief that if a Dem/librul did any of this, they'd scream bloody blue murder, but since it's a Republican, it's all fine.

Meanwhile... via Vox: Why Obamacare enrollees voted for Trump
Click to expand...

The cognitive abilities of the general citizen in this country must be at an all-time low.
 
N

nature boy

Member
Rubot!

Rubio: I have 'serious concerns' on Tillerson nomination

Florida Sen. Marco Rubio has “serious concerns” about the prospect of Rex Tillerson as secretary of state, he said in a statement released Tuesday morning in which he expressed doubt about Tillerson’s “moral clarity.”

“While Rex Tillerson is a respected businessman, I have serious concerns about his nomination,” said Rubio, who sits on the committee that will consider Tillerson’s nomination.

“The next secretary of state must be someone who views the world with moral clarity, is free of potential conflicts of interest, has a clear sense of America's interests, and will be a forceful advocate for America's foreign policy goals to the president, within the administration, and on the world stage. I look forward to learning more about his record and his views. I will do my part to ensure he receives a full and fair but also thorough hearing before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.”

...
Click to expand...

Graham:

CzkIh-bUsAApnSM.jpg:large
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Is it plausible to make the argument that an improving economy actually helped Trump? It pushed economy as the most important issue down in the most important issues list.

Also, Healthcare is nowhere to be found on the exit poll data for 2016 while for 2012 it was most important issue for 15-20% of the people in blue wall states.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Foffy said:
Of course, her reasons are precisely why she was for Trump in the way she was.

She believes the immigrants forced her wages to be depressed. Of course, this isn't entirely true, and she is also dangerously oblivious to the fact that in manufacturing, the goal is to axe her and the immigrant wholesale. They're both done for, more or less.

But her views are precisely what happens when you allow precarity and social scarcity to actually infect the lives of others. It becomes a game of egocentrism, of self/ingroup vs. other/outgroup. This game is of course happening at a beach as a tsunami starts to arrive, taking out all players in the process. She wants to sustain herself and sees the "other" as the threat, failing to realize the issue is not people, but where we're going fighting what we frighteningly adhere to.

We can sit here and try to call that woman a heartless witch, but when people have to fight for table scraps, tribalism gets formed. We should absolutely be looking at the cultural and social causes that produce such behavior and way of thinking.
Click to expand...

No offense, but I'm just really tired of repeating that America was white supremacist when it was founded, has been white supremacist for two hundred fifty years, was white supremacist through plenty of strong economic times, and maybe white Americans don't support white supremacy because they're impoverished but because they have been raised by their family to support white supremacy. Occam's other razor says don't assume the evidence always implies your favorite conclusion.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Pixieking said:
I haven't heard a single thing from the "drain the swamp" crowd in weeks. I'm tempted to say that they're just hypocritical as fuck, and are of the belief that if a Dem/librul did any of this, they'd scream bloody blue murder, but since it's a Republican, it's all fine.

Meanwhile... via Vox: Why Obamacare enrollees voted for Trump
Click to expand...

This article goes right to the truth. These guys heard Trump say he would repeal Obamacare. They know they're on Obamacare and that they need it.

They voted for Trump anyway. Why? They don't believe Trump would hurt them. But they also believe that "others" are getting a better deal and that Trump will hurt THOSE people, and they want that.

I wonder who those others are, and why they believe Trump will protect them but hurt the others. What possible link do these people have in common with Trump that the people they despise lack? What makes them so confident not just that they will be protected, but that the others will not be?
 
G

geomon

Member
Bill Gates likens president-elect to JFK

President-elect Donald Trump has an opportunity to establish "American leadership through innovation," Bill Gates told CNBC on Tuesday.

"A lot of his message has been about ... where he sees things not as good as he'd like," the billionaire Microsoft co-founder said on "Squawk Box."

"But in the same way President Kennedy talked about the space mission and got the country behind that," Gates continued, "I think whether it's education or stopping epidemics ... [or] in this energy space, there can be a very upbeat message that [Trump's] administration [is] going to organize things, get rid of regulatory barriers, and have American leadership through innovation."
Click to expand...

facepalm.jpg~c200
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Holmes said:
When will people stop projecting what they want onto Trump and start seeing the truth
Click to expand...

Reality is too scary. It's hard to admit what's going on is actually happening. When humans are scared and confused at events, we generally try and substitute what we hope will happen instead of what is actually going to happen.
 
M

Mortimer Brewster

Member
Frank the Great said:
I don't think that's how the pact would work. IIRC California et al. (totaling 270) would just automatically assign all their electors to the winner of the national popular vote. It would definitely help Democrats.

The states that sign onto the pact don't matter. All that matters is that they total 270.
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That is highly unlikely to happen. To hit 270 you would need some of the true swing states and none of them are going to want to give up their influence so LA , New York and Cook County's can run up the score and hold the rest of the country hostage. The system as it stands works as intended sometimes the Dems win, sometimes the GOP wins. Only thing Democrats can do is learn from the election, make adjustments and try again in 2020.
 
D

dramatis

Member
Mortimer Brewster said:
That is highly unlikely to happen. To hit 270 you would need some of the true swing states and none of them are going to want to give up their influence so LA , New York and Cook County's can run up the score and hold the rest of the country hostage. The system as it stands works as intended sometimes the Dems win, sometimes the GOP wins. Only thing Democrats can do is learn from the election, make adjustments and try again in 2020.
Click to expand...
One of the proposed ways of selling this is to bring safe red states onboard.

The thing about being a safe red state is that you don't get attention or campaigning either. If Texas can come onboard out of hilarious self-interest that might work.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Mortimer Brewster said:
That is highly unlikely to happen. To hit 270 you would need some of the true swing states and none of them are going to want to give up their influence so LA , New York and Cook County's can run up the score and hold the rest of the country hostage. The system as it stands works as intended sometimes the Dems win, sometimes the GOP wins. Only thing Democrats can do is learn from the election, make adjustments and try again in 2020.
Click to expand...

Incidentally, a Popular Vote/EC Split has never favored the Democrats in the five times it's happened. The Democrat party had existed for all 5 of them as well, so it wasn't a case of not existing yet.
 
N

numble

Member
Mortimer Brewster said:
That is highly unlikely to happen. To hit 270 you would need some of the true swing states and none of them are going to want to give up their influence so LA , New York and Cook County's can run up the score and hold the rest of the country hostage. The system as it stands works as intended sometimes the Dems win, sometimes the GOP wins. Only thing Democrats can do is learn from the election, make adjustments and try again in 2020.
Click to expand...

Actually, you do not need any of the swing states to hit it.

There is no indication that an election that had 128 million people vote most recently would be decided by the votes from places that total less than 15 million votes (especially when the actual voters from those places are probably 8 million). The evidence is in 1) other democracies--even look at Brexit--campaigning only in cities often means you lose the election 2) the primary process--when every vote counts, the candidates campaign in more states and 3) Maine and Nebraska in the current system--when the states open up their electoral votes to a partial proportional system, the campaigns start campaigning there because votes start to count.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Oblivion said:
That was great. Really glad Hayes did that. But still, in Bernie's defense, he was playing to the crowd. He knows damn well what political correctness is, but didn't want to let it divert from his message on the economy.
Click to expand...

It's not the first time Sanders has railed against Identity Politics and the like.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
pigeon said:
This article goes right to the truth. These guys heard Trump say he would repeal Obamacare. They know they're on Obamacare and that they need it.

They voted for Trump anyway. Why? They don't believe Trump would hurt them. But they also believe that "others" are getting a better deal and that Trump will hurt THOSE people, and they want that.

I wonder who those others are, and why they believe Trump will protect them but hurt the others. What possible link do these people have in common with Trump that the people they despise lack? What makes them so confident not just that they will be protected, but that the others will not be?
Click to expand...

Same as Trump's messaging on free trade and everything else. It's not really so much about free trade, or any other issue, so much as it's about giving white people someone to hate and blame openly.
 
IAmAnAgnostic

IAmAnAgnostic

Member
It seems like you won't have to wait until 2020 to see Kanye's influence in politics..

Kanye West and President-elect Donald Trump met at Trump Tower Tuesday morning to discuss a potential role for the rapper, E! News has learned exclusively.

The "Jesus Walks" rapper met with Trump to discuss becoming an "ambassador of sorts," a source close to West tells E! News. The source adds that Trump is interested in getting West involved in an "entrepreneurial leadership role."

As for how the meeting came about, the insider tells us that Trump's team reached out to West. "Trump thinks he's a great role model when it comes to business," the insider adds.

E! News has reached out to Trump's team for comment.
Click to expand...

http://www.eonline.com/news/815532/why-kanye-west-and-president-elect-donald-trump-met
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
Pixieking said:
I haven't heard a single thing from the "drain the swamp" crowd in weeks. I'm tempted to say that they're just hypocritical as fuck, and are of the belief that if a Dem/librul did any of this, they'd scream bloody blue murder, but since it's a Republican, it's all fine.

Meanwhile... via Vox: Why Obamacare enrollees voted for Trump
Click to expand...

Having relatives living in rural Southern Indiana, I have to say that sadly none of this surprises me. The strong sense is that "we deserve these benefits, it's those moochers out there that are the problem."
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
pigeon said:
This article goes right to the truth. These guys heard Trump say he would repeal Obamacare. They know they're on Obamacare and that they need it.

They voted for Trump anyway. Why? They don't believe Trump would hurt them. But they also believe that "others" are getting a better deal and that Trump will hurt THOSE people, and they want that.

I wonder who those others are, and why they believe Trump will protect them but hurt the others. What possible link do these people have in common with Trump that the people they despise lack? What makes them so confident not just that they will be protected, but that the others will not be?
Click to expand...

Box of Kittens said:
Having relatives living in rural Southern Indiana, I have to say that sadly none of this surprises me. The strong sense is that "we deserve these benefits, it's those moochers out there that are the problem."
Click to expand...

This is where the GOP might be in trouble, though. They're in total control of the federal government. These people are going to get hurt by their policies. They can't blame democrats any more.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Plinko said:
This is where the GOP might be in trouble, though. They're in total control of the federal government. These people are going to get hurt by their policies. They can't blame democrats any more.
Click to expand...

They don't need to blame Democrats. This election wasn't won on blaming Democrats, it was won on creating an other (people of color) for white people to hate. He's going to run on exactly the same shit next time too; he's going to point at Muslims, Hispanics, and African-Americans--while signing Jews--and say "these people are to blame, they've been fighting me the whole way and they want to destroy your way of life and it's working and only I can stop them, but I need more power" and if it's not countered it'll work, again.

And godforbid something starts with China, he'll have won reelection then and there.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
B-Dubs said:
They don't need to blame Democrats. This election wasn't won on blaming Democrats, it was won on creating an other (people of color) for white people to hate. He's going to run on exactly the same shit next time too; he's going to point at Muslims, Hispanics, and African-Americans--while signing Jews--and say "these people are to blame, they've been fighting me the whole way and they want to destroy your way of life and it's working and only I can stop them, but I need more power" and if it's not countered it'll work, again.

And godforbid something starts with China, he'll have won reelection then and there.
Click to expand...

This is why democratic messaging needs to start immediately. Elect new DNC leader, get to work locally.
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
Mortimer Brewster said:
That is highly unlikely to happen. To hit 270 you would need some of the true swing states and none of them are going to want to give up their influence so LA , New York and Cook County's can run up the score and hold the rest of the country hostage. The system as it stands works as intended sometimes the Dems win, sometimes the GOP wins. Only thing Democrats can do is learn from the election, make adjustments and try again in 2020.
Click to expand...

I agree with the assessment that the system isn't changing and therefore Democrats need to work within it because there is no alternative. If Democrats want to win going forward, they can't completely cede the rural vote. They don't need to win it, but they can't get crushed by the same margin as before.

I strongly disagree with the assessment that the system is working as intended or that a popular vote would amount to "LA , New York and Cook County's can run up the score and hold the rest of the country hostage." In fact as it stands what's really happening is that rural America is holding the rest of the country hostage. The system as originally designed was more about states than rural/urban interests per se, but the point was that the Senate would protect minority interests by over representing less populous (and generally more rural states) while the House of Representatives would reflect the will of the people by having districts based on population.

Unfortunately, there are a variety of factors that make it so the House of Representatives now also over represents rural interests (among them the decision made by Congress back in the early 20th century to cap the House at 435 members rather than let it continue to grow to reflect population increases). I am somewhat conflicted on the proper role of the Senate, but I can understand the argument that California and Wyoming should have the same number of Senators. What I find problematic is that California has over 66 times the population of Wyoming (based on the 2010 Census) but only 53 times the Representatives.

To make a long story short, I understand the argument that the federal government should be set up in such a way to prevent urban voters from being able to completely control the government, but I think it's a huge problem that every part of the federal government overweights rural interests. For all the rhetoric about the supposed horrors of urban voters "running up the score" the story of this past election was rural white voters in states like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania running up the score and holding the rest of the country hostage. I think that's really hard to justify unless you think it's OK to disenfranchise urban voters just because they aren't as spread out.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
Why does the term "Bernie Bros" trigger some people? It explicitly refers to those that drank the Kool-aid and that often had diet/non-so-diet sexist & racist views. If that doesn't or never applied to you why get bothered by the term at all. the mere invocation, whether its used correctly or not, seems to upset people. It's weird to me *shrug*

B-Dubs said:
They don't need to blame Democrats. This election wasn't won on blaming Democrats, it was won on creating an other (people of color) for white people to hate. He's going to run on exactly the same shit next time too; he's going to point at Muslims, Hispanics, and African-Americans--while signing Jews--and say "these people are to blame, they've been fighting me the whole way and they want to destroy your way of life and it's working and only I can stop them, but I need more power" and if it's not countered it'll work, again.

And godforbid something starts with China, he'll have won reelection then and there.
Click to expand...

Obligatory

685f28394e2afe6e2a0aab9fd5ad06b7.jpg


It's not like we haven't been shit on and scapegoated before, this won't be anything new. As for China, how would you sell a war with China as a positive to the general public? China isn't going to start bombing American citizens anytime soon.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I am more convinced than ever that the Democrat's reliance on college educated whites is going to make every single election an uphill climb. They don't, we don't, really viscerally fear anything unless we're LGBTQA+. Elections aren't as crucial for our very existence they way they are for minorities, and there's no echo chamber of shrieking fear the way the GOP has constructed, leaving you with a base that has to be fought tooth and nail to get "excited"
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
The Technomancer said:
I am more convinced than ever that the Democrat's reliance on college educated whites is going to make every single election an uphill climb. They don't, we don't, really viscerally fear anything unless we're LGBTQA+. Elections aren't as crucial for our very existence they way they are for minorities, and there's no echo chamber of shrieking fear the way the GOP has constructed, leaving you with a base that has to be fought tooth and nail to get "excited"
Click to expand...

But those college educated whites are the ones who are in crushing debt due to school and soon to be rising costs of healthcare with no retirement or safety net near retirement age.

I've already accepted the fact that if my depression and loneliness doesn't kill me, then I'll be working until the day I die.
 
A

And_Gignac

Member
metalslimer said:
Samantha Bee had a great piece last night on the whining about identity politics coming from certain people *cough* on the left.

https://youtu.be/CH7GCMm1ngA
Click to expand...

Not that great tbh. Identity politics is a well established academic concept that is in no way an euphemism to civil rights. Class politics are in itself sort of "identitarian". Thank god Bernie Sanders never said anything was wrong about identity politics, like Bee poorly implied.

Crocodile said:
Why does the term "Bernie Bros" trigger some people? It explicitly refers to those that drank the Kool-aid and that often had diet/non-so-diet sexist & racist views. If that doesn't or never applied to you why get bothered by the term at all. the mere invocation, whether its used correctly or not, seems to upset people. It's weird to me *shrug*



Obligatory

685f28394e2afe6e2a0aab9fd5ad06b7.jpg


It's not like we haven't been shit on and scapegoated before, this won't be anything new. As for China, how would you sell a war with China as a positive to the general public? China isn't going to start bombing American citizens anytime soon.
Click to expand...

Probably because the term was used by looots of pundits (and people who decided their own thought processes to be a reflection of what pundits say) as a broad term to lazily generalize everyone who questioned Clinton as light sexists and closeted-racists. It was also used for delegitimization purposes of Bernie's movement and supporters, who we all know ended up being mostly young women.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Veritigo_X said:
Also get Let it Die because it's free and awesome.
Click to expand...

OOOH YEAH, gotta get back to it some time. My dude's probably been raided to hell and back by now. only played on launch day ;(

was quite the wise move, making it f2p. Wouldve probably sold like poop and barely hit 1k posts (at best) on gaming side, had it followed a traditional publishing model.

also best stamina bar ever. Wish there was a mushroom that made it explode if the opponent got pantsed during the debuff duration, tho. Would make for great peeveepee
 
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