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[balladofwindfishes]

I was hoping this queen bs would have died when Clinton lost....

It's not going to stop and there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[War Peaceman]

Holy shit...fricken' Nixon won that many sates?? Fuck...thought only Ray-gun was able to sweep an election on that scale.

Nixon was a political monster in every sense

 

[GutsOfThor]

Reading more of the OT and getting a general sense of what the Democrats are going to do next, I've come to the following conclusion.

I'm done with the party. You guys can keep your punt on gun control & your WWC outreach belief that socialism will work. My views and stations in life are far different than WWC.

The party of Jeremy Corbyn - United States version.

Second Redemption here we come.

Meh. Things are still raw right now since it's only been a few days. I would wait and see for several months what direction the Dems decide to take.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Holy shit...fricken' Nixon won that many sates?? Fuck...thought only Ray-gun was able to sweep an election on that scale.

AND it was right in the middle of Watergate blowing the fuck up.

On September 29, 1972, the press reported that John Mitchell, while serving as Attorney General, controlled a secret Republican fund used to finance intelligence-gathering against the Democrats. On October 10, the FBI reported the Watergate break-in was part of a massive campaign of political spying and sabotage on behalf of the Nixon re-election committee. Despite these revelations, Nixon's campaign was never seriously jeopardized; on November 7, the President was re-elected in one of the biggest landslides in American political history.

 

[B-Dubs]

Holy shit...fricken' Nixon won that many sates?? Fuck...thought only Ray-gun was able to sweep an election on that scale.

Which is why Watergate is still as insane as it was, dude didn't need to cheat at all to win. Nixon's downfall was Nixon and no one else.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Nixon was a political monster in every sense

McGovern was a special kind of incompetent too. Humphrey did better even as his base abandoned him and I imagine Muskie would have had a respectable loss.

 

[RastaMentality]

Reading more of the OT and getting a general sense of what the Democrats are going to do next, I've come to the following conclusion.

I'm done with the party. You guys can keep your punt on gun control & your WWC outreach belief that socialism will work. My views and stations in life are far different than WWC.

The party of Jeremy Corbyn - United States version.

Second Redemption here we come.

Obama will be in charge. This won't happen. we have to hope diet racist white liberals don't hijack the DNC like white people did with the gay rights and feminist movements. just keep chugging on.

 

[VendettaRed07]

I have not read too much into the '68 - '72 elections however I am under the impression we are currently seeing some parallels here. Young liberals essentially took over the DNC and put forth McGovern (grassroots candidate) who then got absolutely hammered by an incumbent president. Am I understanding this correctly?

If so I think we should tread lightly with 2020.

Bernie obviously has flaws but literally all of them would have been canceled out by the fact that he was running against Donald Trump. Trump and Bernie would have been an incredibly different race and Trump would have struggled to come up with attacks on him as successful as the ones on Hillary were

 

[thehypocrite]

How is it even supposed to be possible to appeal to "WWC" voters anyway, for the people pushing that as a focus? I mean, people don't want to call them racist or whatever. Fine, let's go with that for a moment here. Even if that is the case, these are still people, for whatever reasons that they may have, do not trust the traditional mainstream media. At all. They have no confidence in it whatsoever. If they're getting news, it's from sources like Drudge Report. Or Fox News. Or, especially now that Trump is President, places like Breitbart as well. These places will ALWAYS be biased against our candidates, no matter who they are, no matter what policies they espouse, and will always trout out whatever conspiracy theory nonsense based on the slimmest of threads possible that they can fine. That's what this group accepts as reliable news and trusts if anything and that will only be increasingly the case during the Trump years as these places no doubt grow due to the influence of people like Trump and Bannon.

That being the case, how can we ever possibly reach out to this demographic when the information they consume, and will increasingly consume during these intermediate years, are inherently titled against whoever we run, no matter who they are? How in any way is that a winning strategy? How can we possibly counteract that influence when they flat-out refuse to trust anything else from the beginning? That's a hell of a handicap going after that particular demographic that will only be slipping more and more away from us during the Trump years due to only increased power and influence, and I just can't see how that's done since that will involve someway making them trust sources like the NYT or Washington Post or whatever and that flat-out isn't going to happen and if anything is going to get worse not only because of the influence of people like Bannon but also Trump's own statements on how he wants to restrict the freedom of the press and since we're talking about people who voted Trump this year and support him it'll be the sources that Trump and Bannon will be leading them to and that doesn't bode well for us being able to break that influence.

I just don't get how that's supposed to work out and make any sense at all. It's just a flat-out rejection of the reality and a strategy doomed to failure since they voted for Trump, accepted him, and Trump and his cabinet and followers will just push them farther toward sources like Drudge and Breitbart and Fox News, not less, and there's just not much to be done if that's indeed the case. There's no winning move to get these people, short of becoming a flat-out clone of the Republican party (and even that would probably fail for being seen as too sudden and too transparent). None.

You go and talk to them. A lot of these communities gravitate towards McD (Free Internet/Cheap Coffee) etc. We know where they are, you can talk to these voters if you're interested in doing so.

 

[pigeon]

Reading more of the OT and getting a general sense of what the Democrats are going to do next, I've come to the following conclusion.

I'm done with the party. You guys can keep your punt on gun control & your WWC outreach belief that socialism will work. My views and stations in life are far different than WWC.

The party of Jeremy Corbyn - United States version.

Second Redemption here we come.

I feel very much the same way right now, but remember -- NeoGAF is not representative of America!

Bernie pushing Keith Ellison for DNC chair and Schumer agreeing is, in my mind, a hopeful step.

 

[Grexeno]

I have not read too much into the '68 - '72 elections however I am under the impression we are currently seeing some parallels here. Young liberals essentially took over the DNC and put forth McGovern (grassroots candidate) who then got absolutely hammered by an incumbent president. Am I understanding this correctly?

If so I think we should tread lightly with 2020.

It can't possibly get this bad anymore

but make no mistake, if the Bernie Wing wins the primary in 2020, Trump will win the popular vote and more states than he won in 2016.

 

[Pixieking]

I was watching the big rally she had the night before the election. There were celebrities everywhere, concerts, the Obama's were there, the crowd was huge and excited, it was her last chance to make an impact before the ballots were cast in the morning and... she mechanically spouted off memes from the campaign. "Deal me in" , "They go low, we go high". It was absolutely cringe worthy, and I supported her from the beginning. I can only imagine what someone less involved would have thought.

I still voted for her, of course, but she was dragged through the process by her surrogates. Michelle probably gave three speeches that were all better than Hillary's best performance.

As pointed out by Crab up the page, you can be charismatic but bad in front of a crowd. Her town hall appearances (even the televised second debate) are far better at showing her human side than her rallies. Her DNC acceptance speech where she talked about her mother was also good.

 

[pigeon]

You go and talk to them. A lot of these communities gravitate towards McD (Free Internet/Cheap Coffee) etc. We know where they are, you can talk to these voters if you're interested in doing so.

I can't go and talk to these voters because I am afraid they will attack me.

Even during Obama's tenure, I knew there were maybe a dozen states in America I would never visit, full of communities I would not trust to protect my safety.

That number didn't get smaller this week.

 

[lednerg]

Bernie had to have two BLM supporters interrupting him to finally get him to directly say anything about the movement, and right afterwards I had to listen to his supporters act absolutely livid that those two women dared not to just assume that he was there for them.

You're just parroting the narrative. Weeks before that day, Bernie spoke at the Southern Poverty Law Center, presenting his platform to address the concerns of BLM in terms of police reform, poverty, education, jobs, etc. This gets ignored in favor of the narrative that he's just some opportunist, like he wasn't involved in the Civil Rights movement. (Meanwhile, Hillary was a Goldwater girl at the time.)

Also, Bernie gave those women the microphone and let them speak. The people who had waited in the hot sun for 5 hours just to hear from Bernie weren't pleased when it became clear they weren't going to let Bernie talk. Some of them booed. The entire Bernie movement got called racists as a result. When people pointed out how Bernie's platform was solid on race issues, they got dismissed as anti-BLMers.

 

[Hindl]

Bernie obviously has flaws but literally all of them would have been canceled out by the fact that he was running against Donald Trump. Trump and Bernie would have been an incredibly different race and Trump would have struggled to come up with attacks on him as successful as the ones on Hillary were

I dunno. He couldn't hit Bernie on the corruption charges, but he could certainly say he was just another establishment politician, he'd been in D.C. for 30 years. And even though he passed a lot of amendments, he barely passed any bills. And there were scandals in his past that Hillary didn't bring up because she didn't need to. And socialism is still a dirty word to middle America. Maybe Bernie could've pulled it off. But in no way am I going to pretend that he would've done it easily. And again, he lost the primary. Giving him the nomination would've suppressed millions of mostly minority votes

You're just parroting the narrative. Weeks before that day, Bernie spoke at the Southern Poverty Law Center, presenting his platform to address the concerns of BLM in terms of police reform, poverty, education, jobs, etc. This gets ignored in favor of the narrative that he's just some opportunist, like he wasn't involved in the Civil Rights movement. (Meanwhile, Hillary was a Goldwater girl at the time.)

Also, Bernie gave those women the microphone and let them speak. The people who had waited in the hot sun for 5 hours just to hear from Bernie weren't pleased when it became clear they weren't going to let Bernie talk. Some of them booed. The entire Bernie movement got called racists as a result.

You do realize Hillary left the Republican party because of the Civil Rights movement right?

 

[Sianos]

Just get someone male white to promise the midwest he'll bring manufacturing jobs back. Don't give any specifics (you can't the jobs are never coming back), just keep saying it over and over and over.

There's no 'understanding' the poor disenfranchised working class in areas where manufacturing has been gutted, what they want won't ever happen. You can't turn back the clock. If the manufacturers come back they'll automate so much that a 20th of the workforce will be needed. No amount of ending trade deals, introducing tariffs and subsidies will ever change that. All ending trade deals will do is push up the cost of living which will hurt those folks more.

All you can do is pander. Clinton did have reasonable policies on retraining and increasing college affordability which in theory is the correct response to the gutting of manufacturing, but they didn't want to know clinging to the notion that empty words of a moron would somehow magically bring it all back. It won't.

Indeed.

This is the same mistake I made - I thought that the average person from both sides of the aisle would have that moment of asking "...but how?" after every single policy question was answered with word salad or vague promises to "make things great!!!" Clinton provided realistic policy and concrete steps to take towards establishing a foundation upon which great progress could be actually realized and not just dreamed about.

But I was wrong, and in hindsight it should have been really obvious that I was wrong. People cling to what they want to believe in spite of a lack of empirical proof and will fight tooth and nail to avoid feeling cognitive dissonance. It's a twisted antithetical form of "hope" - not hope that the world can be made a better place, but closing one's eyes and saying "this is fine". We just have to clap our hands and either banish the minorities or magically synthesize the socialist utopia out of the aether after burning down the current system without setting up any framework.

The solution is nothing drastic, no need to throw minorities under the bus to try and pander to white people who won't give a damn because anything less than supremacy offends them. Just lie to the people! Lie by omission - you're telling the truth that the want to accomplish all these wonderful things, just omitting the fact that it will be nowhere near as easy as you make it sound.

 

[Dominican Power]

Get fucked, Christie.

 

[dramatis]

Bernie ran with zero corporate funding or name recognition and was still able to come damn close to the most powerful and recognizable Democratic Party figure besides Obama and Bill Clinton. He did so on his platform alone, which resonated like Hillary's never did. He came off as being the guy we thought we elected in 2008, a populist with a vision.

As far as taking minorities for granted goes, well that's the Democratic Party in a nutshell. Bernie was very outspoken on the issues affecting minorities from all sides. Hillary's team got out there on social media and successfully convinced people otherwise.

Hillary Rodham cost her husband reelection because she dared to be an individual; she swallowed her individuality and reemerged as Hillary Clinton to support her husband. She worked on schools in Arkansas as first lady; she worked on universal healthcare as first lady of the nation. As a woman she had to endure nearly 40 years of judgement, denunciation, sexism, hatred, demonization, the public humiliation she faced as her husband cheated on her, the uphill climb to gain respect in the senate as a hard worker, the defeat in 2008 by Obama. To gain that power you deride her for, this is what she did.

Let's not talk about how amazing Bernie Sanders was when he is nowhere near on par with Hillary Clinton. Because by the virtue of being a white man, and being in the bubble of representing a basically white state, he never had to build consensus and he never had to suffer any of the shit Hillary Clinton survived.

He didn't come off as being the guy we thought we elected in 2008. He was never Obama, and it showed in his single-track campaign theme. He did not talk criminal justice reform until he was protested for it. Sanders could never transcend his pet issues. Obama did.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

It's not going to stop and there's nothing wrong with it.

It's annoying as shit. Should Trump supporters call him "our king"?

 

[excelsiorlef]

I feel very much the same way right now, but remember -- NeoGAF is not representative of America!

Bernie pushing Keith Ellison for DNC chair and Schumer agreeing is, in my mind, a hopeful step.

I just hope Ellison is willing to make it his full time job...

DNC can't be run part time.

 

[Gruco]

I mean, it is about race. I'm trying to co-opt a message that Obama used that was effective against Romney in these areas.

You and I 100% agree, sorry if that wasn't clear. I am just frustrated seeing people trying to misdirect and rationalize away the most immediate consequence of this election.

I feel very much the same way right now, but remember -- NeoGAF is not representative of America!

Bernie pushing Keith Ellison for DNC chair and Schumer agreeing is, in my mind, a hopeful step.

Agreed. I am disappointed that Howard Dean was met with such dismay, but Ellison is a great choice.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

It's annoying as shit. Should Trump supporters call him "our king"?

They call him Daddy Donald. I really couldn't care less that they do this.

People called Obama God-King and Emperor all the time because it was funny because the right was scared to their core thinking he'd be a tyrant.

 

[War Peaceman]

Bernie obviously has flaws but literally all of them would have been canceled out by the fact that he was running against Donald Trump. Trump and Bernie would have been an incredibly different race and Trump would have struggled to come up with attacks on him as successful as the ones on Hillary were

I think this is based in fantasy and not evidence.

It is plausible Bernie could have done better. His limitations (he has one real issue) gave him a focused and clear message. He is male. He does appeal to those who want change (yet to be convinced a significant portion of people want change), but it is hard to believe he competes on anti-establishment-ness over the embodiment of it in Trump. It is hard to believe a socialist appeals to the (former) industrial workers in the rust belt over Trump. Hard to believe he appeals to the minorities in the democratic base over Hillary. It isn't as simple as made out.

However he has a huge negative - nobody likes socialists, they even prefer muslims - and was never really scrutinised the way Clinton has been. We don't know what would have come out (possibly nothing, we just don't know).

 

[Veritigo_X]

It's annoying as shit. Should Trump supporters call him "our king"?

They can call him whatever the fuck they want. Why do you care so much? This is a weird thing to reflect on after this election.

 

[jtb]

also, Clinton is clearly an excellent debater. better than Obama. polished, firm, well-prepared, cuts through the bullshit. she thrives in these combative, pressurized situations. that also counts for something in charisma points, I think.

HRC is, to borrow a bannon term, a "brawler", a partisan -- not a unifier or a moralist. plenty of reasons why she lost, but one is that she was never comfortable in her own skin. her campaign persona didn't match her previous public persona or probably her private persona.

 

[War Peaceman]

You're just parroting the narrative. Weeks before that day, Bernie spoke at the Southern Poverty Law Center, presenting his platform to address the concerns of BLM in terms of police reform, poverty, education, jobs, etc. This gets ignored in favor of the narrative that he's just some opportunist, like he wasn't involved in the Civil Rights movement. (Meanwhile, Hillary was a Goldwater girl at the time.)

Also, Bernie gave those women the microphone and let them speak. The people who had waited in the hot sun for 5 hours just to hear from Bernie weren't pleased when it became clear they weren't going to let Bernie talk. Some of them booed. The entire Bernie movement got called racists as a result. When people pointed out how Bernie's platform was solid on race issues, they got dismissed as anti-BLMers.

If he can't win the narrative in a primary amongst his own party how could he in an election?

 

[lednerg]

You do realize Hillary left the Republican party because of the Civil Rights movement right?

And went on to help dismantle welfare, bolster the war on drugs, enact NAFTA, etc etc. The Clintons have always been such progressives, but us lefties are too dumb and unrealistic to see it.

 

[QuiteWhittle]

It's annoying as shit. Should Trump supporters call him "our king"?

Trump supporters prefer God Emperor.

 

[Kathian]

also, Clinton is clearly an excellent debater. better than Obama. polished, firm, well-prepared, cuts through the bullshit. she thrives in these combative, pressurized situations. that also counts for something in charisma points, I think.

HRC is, to borrow a bannon term, a "brawler", a partisan -- not a unifier or a moralist. plenty of reasons why she lost, but one is that she was never comfortable in her own skin. her campaign persona didn't match her previous public persona or probably her private persona.

This post made me dizzy.

 

[pigeon]

They can call him whatever the fuck they want. Why do you care so much? This is a weird thing to reflect on after this election.

In case you didn't notice, all kinds of people who hate PoliGAF are taking this opportunity to come in and mock us for making them feel bad in the past.

 

[DrForester]

It's annoying as shit. Should Trump supporters call him "our king"?

I've made a promise to myself that I will never refer to him as President.

 

[TS-08]

also, Clinton is clearly an excellent debater. better than Obama. polished, firm, well-prepared, cuts through the bullshit. she thrives in these combative, pressurized situations. that also counts for something in charisma points, I think.

HRC is, to borrow a bannon term, a "brawler", a partisan -- not a unifier or a moralist. plenty of reasons why she lost, but one is that she was never comfortable in her own skin. her campaign persona didn't match her previous public persona or probably her private persona.

Is this an excerpt from an unauthorized biography of Hillary Clinton you're writing?

 

[lednerg]

If he can't win the narrative in a primary amongst his own party how could he in an election?

Bernie is an independent, he only ran as a Democrat in order to have a shot at being heard. But it's not his party. In fact, they did everything they could to stop people from voting for him. The debate schedule was a big one, for instance. I could post about who their donors are and how Bernie hated them, but then I'd be called out as a conspiracy theorist.

 

[Goodstyle]

Broken link

It's a daily mail link that refuses to work for some reason. Basically just Huma breaking down in the middle of the street. Similar pics of Mook and other Clinton staffers just emotionally broken too. I feel bad for Huma especially because she likely blames herself for this.

 

[StopMakingSense]

It's a daily mail link that refuses to work for some reason. Basically just Huma breaking down in the middle of the street. Similar pics of Mook and other Clinton staffers just emotionally broken too. I feel bad for Huma especially because she likely blames herself for this.

Daily Mail is a banned site.

 

[War Peaceman]

Bernie is an independent, he only ran as a Democrat in order to have a shot at being heard. But it's not his party. In fact, they did everything they could to stop people from voting for him. I could post about who their donors are and how Bernie hated them, but then I'd be called out as a conspiracy theorist.

probably because he was an opportunist who joined the democratic party for the sole purpose of running for president.

is it a shock that a political party would support the person who has served them for 30 years over an opportunist? They gave Sanders a fair shot at it. Like they did Obama. He lost. It isn't a conspiracy.

if he'd been stopped by superdelegates, it would be reasonable to object. If it was close thenthe DNC's(understandable) favouritism to Clinton could be questioned. But clinton received millions more votes than him. He lost. He couldn't even win amongst the left.

 

[thehypocrite]

I can't go and talk to these voters because I am afraid they will attack me.

Even during Obama's tenure, I knew there were maybe a dozen states in America I would never visit, full of communities I would not trust to protect my safety.

That number didn't get smaller this week.

We aren't getting their votes for free.

Look at this:

In a parking lot talking to workers in MI

He did all that so that he could also stand for you. This is how you win votes cause votes are people.

Votes=People
Sufficient Votes= Win Elections
Win Elections=Goal

 

[jtb]

This post made me dizzy.

Is this an excerpt from an unauthorized biography of Hillary Clinton you're writing?

I didn't realize that was controversial. polls widely thought she won all three debates against trump, ditto with obama. obviously, debates aren't everything or she would have won in 08 and 16. but they count for at least a little?

I also didn't realize it was controversial to say that she was a partisan. um, she's basically the most polarizing, partisan figure of the past thirty years of american politics. that's not inherently a negative. but it clearly, directly clashes with this moralistic, unifying "stronger together" message she ran on.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Dropping the individual mandate while keeping the pre-existing condition coverage is economic dumbassery that only a populist moron would even think about.

 

[Goodstyle]

And went on to help dismantle welfare, bolster the war on drugs, enact NAFTA, etc etc. The Clintons have always been such progressives, but us lefties are too dumb and unrealistic to see it.

This idea that NAFTA and free trade in general are a bad thing is one of the dumbest by-products of this election.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Is this an excerpt from an unauthorized biography of Hillary Clinton you're writing?

Speaking of which, I sure hope Trump realizes his name and likeness are de-facto public domain.

Not technically, but no president has ever sued anyone over the rights of their name and image because they're the president and it'd be hard to win since basically everything would be political commentary.

So his brand isn't really worth much at all anymore.

 

[Pixieking]

It's a daily mail link that refuses to work for some reason. Basically just Huma breaking down in the middle of the street. Similar pics of Mook and other Clinton staffers just emotionally broken too. I feel bad for Huma especially because she likely blames herself for this.

I fully expect Weiner to be castrated by Hillary and Huma, in the most painful way possible.

 

[Gruco]

Bernie is an independent, he only ran as a Democrat in order to have a shot at being heard. But it's not his party. In fact, they did everything they could to stop people from voting for him. The debate schedule was a big one, for instance. I could post about who their donors are and how Bernie hated them, but then I'd be called out as a conspiracy theorist.

Bernie aides blame loss on DNC, media, low information voters, Hillary, everything but themselves

 

[TS-08]

I didn't realize that was supposed to be controversial. polls widely thought she won all three debates against trump, ditto with obama. obviously, debates aren't everything or she would have won in 08 and 16. but they count for at least a little?

I also didn't realize it was controversial to say that she was a partisan. um, she's basically the most polarizing, partisan figure of the past thirty years of american politics. that's not inherently a negative. but it clearly, directly clashes with this moralistic, unifying "stronger together" message she ran on.

Who said anything about controversial? I was more referring to the stilted and fawning writing style.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Who said anything about controversial? I was more referring to the stilted and fawning writing style.

People are fucking allowed to admite her

 

[jtb]

Who said anything about controversial? I was more referring to the stilted and fawning writing style.

yeah, no arguments about the shitty writing -- hard to write coherent posts when you're multitasking. sorry.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I fully expect Weiner to be castrated by Hillary and Huma, in the most painful way possible.

If the Comey letter did this, Wiener better hope the rumors of the Clinton hit squad are just rumors.

 

[campfireweekend]

People are fucking allowed to admite her

And in fact a majority of America admired her enough to vote for her.

This is becoming a witch hunt to blame her, even though she won the popular vote. This is CRAZY. Only liberals would do this much soul searching over an incredibly close election. Come the fuck on.

 

[whyamihere]

You and I 100% agree, sorry if that wasn't clear. I am just frustrated seeing people trying to misdirect and rationalize away the most immediate consequence of this election.

I get it. This is frustrating. Don't worry about it.

This week sucks.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

And in fact a majority of America admired her enough to vote for her.

This is becoming a witch hunt to blame her, even though she won the popular vote. This is CRAZY. Only liberals would do this much soul searching over an incredibly close election. Come the fuck on.

It's soul searching over the fact that that may have been the last presidential election in a long time.

Trump is nearly identical to Maduro except way less intelligent and that's really disturbing.