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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
What we really need to do is convince hipsters that the next community that needs gentrifying is small-town America. You've seen urban farming, now see extraurban farming!
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But for real, if I was a left-wing billionaire, I'd be dumping money into some random quaint towns in places like Arizona, Georgia, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc... just like Asheville in NC. Get the hipsters to move to red states and start flipping them. It can't be that hard to install a homebrew system in somebody's old barn.

Ether_Snake said:
With the EC system, failed red states could go after successful blue states. So even when the economic incentive for those states to pull on their bootstraps are clear they'll use the law to get handouts from the productive blue states.

How ironic.

But pride will probably just make them sabotage blue states and get nothing in return, just a big frustration movement. You already got a glimpse of this now.
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No way would the blue states take that. It's certainly a last resort, but if states like NY and CA withheld their revenue (or better, just spent it on themselves), the federal gov't would shut down overnight. Those states bankroll this country, and the GOP really doesn't want this fight.
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
Meh....

I'd be open to entertaining tabloid gossip if there was nothing else important going on. But my worry would be that the media obsesses over something salacious but ultimately meaningless, instead of continuing to probe real issues like the Russian hacking and conflict of interests.

Plus it sounds like this Miller guy hit the eject button pretty fast. He knew he wasn't ready for prime time with the dirty laundry he potentially has. So it's hard for me to be outraged or demand the media spend a lot of airtime digging into it. This guy was going to be a communications director, he wasn't an elected leader so I don't think the same moral standards are required of him.

That said, the Obama years over 8 years was mostly scandal free. The Republicans tried to manufacture a few scandals but nothing really stuck to Obama or his inner circle. Most of the Republican-led investigations only accomplished riling up the GOP base, but nothing broke through to the mainstream.

So it'll be interesting to see how scandal-prone will the Trump Admin be. But judging by the Trump the campaign and transition, they have a very chaotic style and a lack of discipline. A perfect environment for in-fighting and scandal. If I were advising the progressive media, I would tell them to let this Miller thing go. There's going to be much bigger and more important scandals to chase down the line.
 
M

mo60

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
I'll have to look that up..



bleh. It seem slike Cali and New York in particular are becoming 'havens' for liberals, and they're leaving red/swing states to live over here(Since alot of jobs are also concentrated here).

Florida had a shocking rural turn out that makes me feel that's a while away, and Texas, whilst it has jobs, doesn't seem to be a place where LIberals would move to live, so that's...a while away. Arizona is well..it's not a swing state.
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Arizona is technically a swing state in the next election. Trump won that state by less then 5%. So are NH, PA, ME,MN and etc. I think the next democratic presidential nominee should also look at targeting NE-2 since trump won that by less then 5 points and maybe GA.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Let's say the world is bathed in nuclear fire and earth becomes as in Mad Max. Would everything be as reliant on gasoline as shown in Mad Max or are solar and wind power at this point be cost-viable enough to operate in a nuclear, post apocalyptic wasteland?
 
S

Sadsic

Member
i went through like 4 adam curtis documentaries for the first time in the last few days... now i feel like politics is lost to an infinite maze of mirrors each reflection confusion upon the viewer

there needs to be like some sort of major open public forum re-establishing what even is the modern history is of the world and what core themes and ideology are to the masses to re-configure public thought as a whole in the western world
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Plinko said:
Yep. Been preaching this for over a year now. GOP control of government has destroyed Michigan. Beautiful in places, but not worth living in. Job market isn't great. Highest insurance rates in the country. You pay exorbitant amounts to heat your home or get electricity. Smart people are leaving the moment they get a chance.
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The problem is failure of Dem state party to make the people realize this is due to GOP state control.
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
The problem is failure of Dem state party to make the people realize this is due to GOP state control.
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With the polarisation of politics, is it even possible for the Dems to sway public opinion beyond the neutral/undecided electorate? Or has the GOP propaganda/hate-fear machine embedded itself so deeply in people's psyches that it needs an unaffiliated-to-the-Democratic-Party group or company to educate people?
 
A

Abinash117

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
The problem is failure of Dem state party to make the people realize this is due to GOP state control.
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That argument was used against Democrats during this election as well. The problem like you said was that Democrats failed to use that to their advantage.

It is still amazing that Democrats have really failed at messaging while the GOP whipped up a base that will vote for the GOP agenda even if that agenda does not benefit them at all. Although, a large portion of the resistance is cultural. They don't want a "handout", but with low-wages, perhaps no healthcare or a extremely expensive soon to be healthcare, a lack of jobs in their location, no college degree, and one of the industries they rely on that is disappearing; they probably need "handouts" to help them to afloat. They aren't going to accept it. I say Democrats should just reword their proposals.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Pixieking said:
With the polarisation of politics, is it even possible for the Dems to sway public opinion beyond the neutral/undecided electorate? Or has the GOP propaganda/hate-fear machine embedded itself so deeply in people's psyches that it needs an unaffiliated-to-the-Democratic-Party group or company to educate people?
Click to expand...

Abinash117 said:
That argument was used against Democrats during this election as well. The problem like you said was that Democrats failed to use that to their advantage.

It is still amazing that Democrats have really failed at messaging while the GOP whipped up a base that will vote for the GOP agenda even if that agenda does not benefit them at all. Although, a large portion of the resistance is cultural. They don't want a "handout", but with low-wages, perhaps no healthcare or a extremely expensive soon to be healthcare, a lack of jobs in their location, no college degree, and one of the industries they rely on that is disappearing; they probably need "handouts" to help them to afloat. They aren't going to accept it. I say Democrats should just reword their proposals.
Click to expand...

One issue is GOP messaging is easy. We will cut your taxes so you have more money is an easy message for people to hear and digest. Blaming the government is always an easy message. Schools suck? Blame Feds. That is why Dems will always need a charismatic nominee at Presidential level. Dems will also need a nominee who will sound liberal to the liberal folks and moderate to the moderate folks (like Obama).

Democrats also strung themselves by lofty and unrealistic goals. 15$ minimum wage, single payer, ban fracking and what not.

If anything the Dem primary hurt them more than the GOP primary hurt Trump.
 
S

samn

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
One issue is GOP messaging is easy. We will cut your taxes so you have more money is an easy message for people to hear and digest. Blaming the government is always an easy message. Schools suck? Blame Feds. That is why Dems will always need a charismatic nominee at Presidential level. Dems will also need a nominee who will sound liberal to the liberal folks and moderate to the moderate folks (like Obama).

Democrats also strung themselves by lofty and unrealistic goals. 15$ minimum wage, single payer, ban fracking and what not.

If anything the Dem primary hurt them more than the GOP primary hurt Trump.
Click to expand...

continuing to burn fossil fuels and not paying people enough to live on is what's unrealistic.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
samn said:
continuing to burn fossil fuels and not paying people enough to live on is what's unrealistic.
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Increasing minimum wage is fine, saying it should be 15$ federally is not a winning message.

Banning fracking federally sounds good in California not in Ohio.

Dems have a problem. Population changes aren't moving that quickly enough that states like AZ, Florida, GA, NC and long term Texas will be reliably Dem soon.

In either case, Clinton lost by such a small margin anything and everything is really responsible for her loss.

But, the failure of Dems to win congress seats that Clinton won is more worrying.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
One issue is GOP messaging is easy. We will cut your taxes so you have more money is an easy message for people to hear and digest. Blaming the government is always an easy message. Schools suck? Blame Feds. That is why Dems will always need a charismatic nominee at Presidential level. Dems will also need a nominee who will sound liberal to the liberal folks and moderate to the moderate folks (like Obama).

Democrats also strung themselves by lofty and unrealistic goals. 15$ minimum wage, single payer, ban fracking and what not.

If anything the Dem primary hurt them more than the GOP primary hurt Trump.
Click to expand...

It is easy because they have influenced enough people into believing that stuff for years. The point you proven though is that Democrats need the right person to spread the message, like what Obama did. What Democrats support most Americans support, the problem is that they need to work better at the local and state governments and get people out to vote.

Republicans message maybe easy, but Democrats need to better understand the demographic they seemingly want to target next so they can make inroads. However, that demographic is opposed to "handouts", Democrats need to understand that and adjust the message so it sounds better without really changing anything.
 
K

kmfdmpig

Member
mo60 said:
Arizona is technically a swing state in the next election. Trump won that state by less then 5%. So are NH, PA, ME,MN and etc. I think the next democratic presidential nominee should also look at targeting NE-2 since trump won that by less then 5 points and maybe GA.
Click to expand...

Arizona being marginally in play this cycle was more of a fluke than a trend, I think. Arizona is strongly republican, but Trump had much less support than a generic R would have due to less support from LDS members and much less support from Hispanic voters.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
The Chosen One said:
Meh....

I'd be open to entertaining tabloid gossip if there was nothing else important going on. But my worry would be that the media obsesses over something salacious but ultimately meaningless, instead of continuing to probe real issues like the Russian hacking and conflict of interests.

Plus it sounds like this Miller guy hit the eject button pretty fast. He knew he wasn't ready for prime time with the dirty laundry he potentially has. So it's hard for me to be outraged or demand the media spend a lot of airtime digging into it. This guy was going to be a communications director, he wasn't an elected leader so I don't think the same moral standards are required of him.

That said, the Obama years over 8 years was mostly scandal free. The Republicans tried to manufacture a few scandals but nothing really stuck to Obama or his inner circle. Most of the Republican-led investigations only accomplished riling up the GOP base, but nothing broke through to the mainstream.

So it'll be interesting to see how scandal-prone will the Trump Admin be. But judging by the Trump the campaign and transition, they have a very chaotic style and a lack of discipline. A perfect environment for in-fighting and scandal. If I were advising the progressive media, I would tell them to let this Miller thing go. There's going to be much bigger and more important scandals to chase down the line.
Click to expand...
I sorta agree/disagree. Yes the media should focus on Russian intrusion. But this is pissing in the wind. You do realize how inept our media is right? They like gossipy tabloidy shiny shit. And the reason why media focuses on this crap is because it sells. If no one can nail Trump on the Russia hacks, might as well start focusing on the tabloidy shit. At least people will start realizing that no, Trump and his people dont change.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Van Jones and Anita Dunn quit Obama's team because Glenn Beck was complaining. Probably a few others I forget too.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
kmfdmpig said:
Arizona being marginally in play this cycle was more of a fluke than a trend, I think. Arizona is strongly republican, but Trump had much less support than a generic R would have due to less support from LDS members and much less support from Hispanic voters.
Click to expand...

No, Arizona is turning blue. It's where college is educated whites are moving to and there were signs of it turning blue as early as 2012.
 
R

Retromelon

Member
SDwcsNa.jpg


Merry christmas poligaf

Boy has that dress not aged well
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
I'm sorry, but referring to Jesus as King will never not be creepy to me.

Can we overthrow Jesus and institute a Republic to rule eternity?

Assange, who briefly hosted his own talkshow on the state-owned television network Russia Today, has long had a close relationship with the Putin regime. In his interview with la Repubblica, he said there was no need for WikiLeaks to undertake a whistleblowing role in Russia because of the open and competitive debate he claimed exists there.

“In Russia, there are many vibrant publications, online blogs and Kremlin critics, such as [Alexey] Navalny, are part of that spectrum,” he said. “There are also newspapers like Novaya Gazeta, in which different parts of society in Moscow are permitted to critique each other and it is tolerated, generally, because it isn’t a big TV channel that might have a mass popular effect, its audience is educated people in Moscow. So my interpretation is that in Russia there are competitors to WikiLeaks.”

Dozens of journalists have been killed in Russia in the past two decades, and Freedom House considers the Russian press to be “not free” and notes: “The main national news agenda is firmly controlled by the Kremlin. The government sets editorial policy at state-owned television stations, which dominate the media landscape and generate propagandistic content.”
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https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/dec/24/julian-assange-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-interview
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
royalan said:
Been said a million times, and it'll be said a million more: had the DNC said something like this about Obama in '08, not only would Republicans have been livid, but they would still be using it as a talking point today.
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Didn't they already do that with some opinion piece from someone using "messiah" to describe obama?

And that didn't even come from anyone directly connected to the party.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
davepoobond said:
I would be laughing if it wasn't so stupid.


So the guy who quoted my little pony won't be press secretary? I wonder who that will be then.
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Press Secretary is who it's always been, Sean Spicer. Miller was going to be WH Communications director (which Spicer will also do now in the interim). This is contained in the article.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
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