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[davepoobond]

Did anyone in this thread predict a Trump win?

the only thing i can vouch for myself is saying that Trump was the GOP's best candidate. not sure if it was in a PoliGAF thread, but maybe in one of the debate threads

 

[kirblar]

No one cared in 08 because Obama beat them in 08 and the supers switched.. Had Hillary won with them in her favor the whole time it would have been a completely different story.

They favored her because she was a lifelong democrat! Sanders was an opportunistic outsider! They are allowed to have preferences- but those preferences did not alter the results!

Supers only matter if they intervene, and it is going to take an emergency or tie for them to do so.

 

[Pixieking]

Because men like Sanders and Corbyn believe that the silent majority agrees with them. Losses are never legitimate.

Trump would've been the same, too, regardless of who he'd lost to. He'd claim Joe Biden rigged the election...

SwiftOnSecurity ‏@SwiftOnSecurity 56s56 seconds ago

So one of my friends said furries pretty much run the US nuclear response communication networks. Just in case you're worried about Trump.

 

[B-Dubs]

Basically my reaction to Morning Joe trying to mansplain this away.

This is the issue. This'll likely get taught in college classes somewhere down the line, by the better teachers and programs, but it won't be realized by the people in any sort of power. The fact that policy is only reported on if someone like Bill or Obama talks about it is insane.

Everything else can get fixed. We can find a shiny, we can focus on spending more time in the rust belt, but the media needs to take a good long look at itself too.

 

[mackaveli]

Basically my reaction to Morning Joe trying to mansplain this away.

I completely agreement with Krugman. Clinton couldn't get any media coverage for her policies.

Again I'll say it. All Trump did was do campaign speech everyday 3 times a day and the media just played it on blast non-stop 24/7. Instead of going through policy and positions and having actual discussions about said policy it was just a circus.

 

[metalslimer]

Really the best reason for having them was so that the candidates would have to reach out and form a coalition inside the democratic party with people from different parts of the country because this is who the next president would be working with.

Well since the democrats have been decimated across the country that seems somewhat less important now. They did allow the minority groups power that they otherwise wouldn't have had though which is what makes me extremely uncomfortable.


Oh and remember when Clinton came out with her mental health policy and no one gave two shits? I fucking despise the media.

 

[Pixieking]

I completely agreement with Krugman. Clinton couldn't get any media coverage for her policies.

Again I'll say it. All Trump did was do campaign speech everyday 3 times a day and the media just played it on blast non-stop 24/7. Instead of going through policy and positions and having actual discussions about said policy it was just a circus.

The Trump hotel/Obama Birther story served the media right... And they still fed Trump.

 

[VendettaRed07]

They favored her because she was a lifelong democrat! Sanders was an opportunistic outsider! They are allowed to have preferences- but those preferences did not alter the results!

And I will say it again. If they didn't alter the result than why have them. If they aren't doing anything then whats the point.

I generally trust democratic primary voters to make a good decision but if the DNC continues this aloof nonsense ignore people's problems with how they conduct themselves, we will without question get our own "fuck you" vote with President Kanye in the future. Whether the DNC likes it or not.

People don't give a shit if she was a lifelong democrat or that people in the party liked her. The voters want to make the decision and they don't want any behind the scenes nonsense doing anything to stop that from happening. Regardless of how they argued it didn't play into he result this time, people don't believe it and don't trust the DNC. They didn't trust Hillary. The party needs to re-establish trust, yesterday.

 

[Kusagari]

Linda McMahon is being rumored for a position in that commerce department of Trump's cabinet now.

She's probably the sanest person rumored so whatever.

 

[kirblar]

And I will say it again. If they didn't alter the result than why have them. If they aren't doing anything then whats the point.

I generally trust democratic primary voters to make a good decision but if the DNC continues this aloof nonsense ignore people's problems with how they conduct themselves, we will without question get our own "fuck you" vote with President Kanye in the future.

People don't give a shit if she was a lifelong democrat or that people in the party liked her. The voters want to make the decision and they don't want any behind the scenes nonsense doing anything to stop that from happening. Regardless of how they argued it didn't play into he result this time, people don't believe it and don't trust the DNC. They didn't trust Hillary. The party needs to re-establish trust, yesterday.

Because we have had incredibly ugly scenarios pop up in the past where a single candidate couldn't get a majority.

 

[mackaveli]

The Trump hotel/Obama Birther story served the media right... And they still fed Trump.

Yeah the media was such a let down. Instead of doing their actual jobs and didn't want to experience any blowback from the right they just gave Trump a message and left it unchecked.

Like there is no accountability. So the question is will the media let Trump go unchecked for the next four years or actually report the news and all the misgivings and wrongdoings Trump administration will most likely do.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Because we have had incredibly ugly scenarios pop up in the past where a single candidate couldn't get a majority.

Not once did I hear the DNC say thats why those are in place. They made a poor argument for their existence and need to figure out a different set of rules.

 

[metalslimer]

Because we have had incredibly ugly scenarios pop up in the past where a single candidate couldn't get a majority.

And without the supers I believe we are going to see this happen in 2020 because there are going to be a shitload of people running.

 

[Pixieking]

Linda McMahon is being rumored for a position in that commerce department of Trump's cabinet now.

She's probably the sanest person rumored so whatever.

Linda McMahon, who once called Trump’s comments about women ‘deplorable,’ gave $6 million to support his bid

Drain that swamp, Donald. /s

Again, twist it around and show it to the voters in MI and WI. Show them how they got played... They'll hate him in 2 years time.

Yeah the media was such a let down. Instead of doing their actual jobs and didn't want to experience any blowback from the right they just gave Trump a message and left it unchecked.

Like there is no accountability. So the question is will the media let Trump go unchecked for the next four years or actually report the news and all the misgivings and wrongdoings Trump administration will most likely do.

Don't rely on the media... They do good work, sometimes. But there's no fucking way emails should've been front-page news. Especially not on the NYT or WaPo - they should've known better, even if the tabloids didn't.

So, yeah, don't rely on the media pushing a narrative that Trump is failing. Get out there and show the voters in person... Talk to the below-poverty-line family in Flint, and show them the corruption that Trump is taking advantage of.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Linda McMahon is being rumored for a position in that commerce department of Trump's cabinet now.

She's probably the sanest person rumored so whatever.

I am sadly fine with this.

 

[Owzers]

The media was complicit in both sidesing white nationalism, and now they want to talk about why Hillary lost and move on.

 

[kirblar]

Not once did I hear the DNC say thats why those are in place. They made a poor argument for their existence and need to figure out a different set of rules.

You could pick up a history book. Or Wikipedia. This should've been covered in HS.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Jason Chaffetz is STILL on Hillary's emails.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4564592-155/utahs-chaffetz-vows-to-continue-clinton

Fucker, I hope your daughter moves out and leaves you to die in a retirement home where she never visits you.

 

[davepoobond]

Jason Chaffetz is STILL on Hillary's emails.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4564592-155/utahs-chaffetz-vows-to-continue-clinton

Fucker, I hope your daughter moves out and leaves you to die in a retirement home where she never visits you.

now he'll have democrats on his side as a cathartic release

 

[VendettaRed07]

You could pick up a history book. Or Wikipedia. This should've been covered in HS.

You would think people would have realized despite how thoroughly and utterly devastated we have been this election. How supremely and utterly fucked we are. And how the Hillgaf/DNC bubble burst in the worst possible way, we would have stopped talk like this.

But go ahead, tell anyone who doesn't like super delegates that they just don't "understand", that they aren't "in on it", or too stupid to get the value of their true purpose. Lets see where that gets us.

 

[BotoxAgent]

Now all these Jill Stein voting assholes on my Facebook are now talking about working together and rebuild the DNC. Sorry, fuck you! You voted for Trump. I agree the DNC needs to be rebuilt....but fuck you, stick with your fraudulent Green Party.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Trump would've been the same, too, regardless of who he'd lost to. He'd claim Joe Biden rigged the election...

Is Trump the baseline for decency?

Do we really want to get more like Trump? Rely on emotion instead of facts.

Unfortunately that answer seems yes. America is going to get more isolationist & anti-free trade.

Now all these Jill Stein voting assholes on my Facebook are now talking about working together and rebuild the DNC. Sorry, fuck you! You voted for Trump. I agree the DNC needs to be rebuilt....but fuck you, stick with your fraudulent Green Party.

They are getting control of the party with Ellison.

Be prepared for two parties consisting of anti-science loony bins.

 

[teruterubozu]

Now all these Jill Stein voting assholes on my Facebook are now talking about working together and rebuild the DNC. Sorry, fuck you! You voted for Trump. I agree the DNC needs to be rebuilt....but fuck you, stick with your fraudulent Green Party.

We need whoever is willing to join. Enough with all this "we don't need you" ostracizing.

 

[davepoobond]

You would think people would have realized despite how thoroughly and utterly devastated we have been this election. How supremely and utterly fucked we are. And how the Hillgaf/DNC bubble burst in the worst possible way, we would have stopped talk like this.

But go ahead, tell anyone who doesn't like super delegates that they just don't "understand", that they aren't "in on it", or too stupid to get the value of their true purpose. Lets see where that gets us.

all that losing the presidency has done has shown democrats they've lost the entire nation and not just this year, the last 6 years they've lost thousands of seats to the GOP.

there is a bigger problem than superdelegates in this election. a democrat win in the presidency would have set them up for a further shrinking IMO. now they are energizing around taking back local, state, and national seats


i'm definitely not an accelerationist, but this is the swift kick in the ass the democrats needed. Sanders may have delayed the inevitable, and probably wouldn't have been as catastrophic with Trump at the helm, but so far the GOP is getting their agenda passed regardless if they have the white house. Trump is the only wild card here and we have to hope he shoots himself in the foot more often than making things worse before Democrats get back into the government.

 

[Pixieking]

Despite the radically increased level of primary participation, with 32 million voters taking part in the selection process by 1980, the Democrats proved largely unsuccessful at the ballot box, with the 1972 presidential campaign of McGovern and the 1980 re-election campaign of Jimmy Carter resulting in landslide defeats.[10] Democratic Party affiliation skidded from 41 percent of the electorate at the time of the McGovern-Fraser Commission report to just 31 percent in the aftermath of the 1980 electoral debacle.[10]

Further soul-searching took place among party leaders, who argued that the pendulum had swung too far in the direction of primary elections over insider decision-making, with one May 1981 California white paper declaring that the Democratic Party had "lost its leadership, collective vision and ties with the past," resulting in the nomination of unelectable candidates.[11] A new 70-member commission headed by Governor of North Carolina Jim Hunt was appointed to further refine the Democratic Party's nomination process, attempting to balance the wishes of rank-and-file Democrats with the collective wisdom of party leaders and to thereby avoid the nomination of insurgent candidates exemplified by the liberal McGovern or the anti-Washington conservative Carter and lessening the potential influence of single-issue politics in the selection process.[11]

This... reads like it's designed to stop a Corbyn from being nominated. That is, someone who has no popular appeal beyond a very specific party base.

Now, unless you're trying to argue that Hillary had no popular appeal (which is patently absurd) arguing that the Super Delegates were a hindrance to Sanders is a fool's errand. I would agree that the perception of Super Delegates is bad, but that's more due to how they're phrased in articles, not that their actual existence is bad.

Is Trump the baseline for decency?

Do we really want to get more like Trump? Rely on emotion instead of facts.

Unfortunately that answer seems yes. America is going to get more isolationist & anti-free trade.

Oh, no, I quite agree. Trump is lower than human. And I don't believe that it's inevitable that politics moves more towards "feelings" than "facts". My point was merely that Trump, Sanders, Corbyn (and some of their supporters) all hold the same general view to some degree - they couldn't possibly lose, because they're the silent majority.

 

[thebloo]

We need whoever is willing to join. Enough with all this ostracizing.

Even the KKK, for instance?

 

[teruterubozu]

Even the KKK, for instance?

The Green Party is just like the KKK. Fuckin' rolleyes.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

FUCK. Was just thinking what happens to NPR and PBS.

NPR is mostly privately funded.

 

[thebloo]

The Green Party is just like the KKK. Fuckin' rolleyes.

Yes. That's exactly what I said.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I've decided to put my own little protest in my avatar.

 

[teruterubozu]

Yes. That's exactly what I said.

I see where you're going with this. Just forget the midterms, none of us are coming together in time.

 

[Dominican Power]

How long before the pentagon finesses Trump to put troops on the ground in Syria?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

As told to the Ann Arbor Police, a student was approached by an unknown man, who demanded she remove her hijab or he would set her on fire with a lighter. She complied and left the area. The Ann Arbor Police are actively investigating.

Suspects: White male, 20-30 years old, average height, athletic build, bad body odor, unkempt appearance, intoxicated with slurred speech

These fucking losers need to go back in a hole somewhere.

http://dpss.umich.edu/news/?id=415

 

[BotoxAgent]

We need whoever is willing to join. Enough with all this "we don't need you" ostracizing.

Well a lot of these Stein supporters implicitly supported Trump, and quite frankly, insane. They may help but they just are as likely to sabotage our chances. I feel they are stubborn bunch. I don't know what's the best course of action in moving forward with our party--besides that everyone needs to go. But I am not ready to take comments from green voters at face value.

 

[Crocodile]

They are getting control of the party with Ellison.

Be prepared for two parties consisting of anti-science loony bins.

Huh? Is there something we don't know about Ellison? Are you saying he is anti-science?

I do agree thought that people who voted for Jill Stein are those I'm very concerned about working with. Jill Stein is terrible on her own merits and they couldn't even be bothered to stand against Trump now - can we count on them later? This is less a "fuck anyone who doesn't think like me!" and more "wow they made some poor decisions in the past, will they make good one sin the future?".

 

[VendettaRed07]

all that losing the presidency has done has shown democrats they've lost the entire nation and not just this year, the last 6 years they've lost thousands of seats to the GOP.

there is a bigger problem than superdelegates in this election. a democrat win in the presidency would have set them up for a further shrinking IMO. now they are energizing around taking back local, state, and national seats


i'm definitely not an accelerationist, but this is the swift kick in the ass the democrats needed. Sanders may have delayed the inevitable, and probably wouldn't have been as catastrophic with Trump at the helm, but so far the GOP is getting their agenda passed regardless if they have the white house. Trump is the only wild card here and we have to hope he shoots himself in the foot more often than making things worse before Democrats get back into the government.

Absolutely. Despite all the arguments for this election, like the Supreme Court situation.. We didn't even get the senate. So we might have just been blocked there for another 4 years anyway. We could possibly have been put in a worse spot in 2020 had we won this time around.

We can't just be a party of Cali and New England. It's time to totally start over.

 

[kirblar]

You would think people would have realized despite how thoroughly and utterly devastated we have been this election. How supremely and utterly fucked we are. And how the Hillgaf/DNC bubble burst in the worst possible way, we would have stopped talk like this.

But go ahead, tell anyone who doesn't like super delegates that they just don't "understand", that they aren't "in on it", or too stupid to get the value of their true purpose. Lets see where that gets us.

What "talk like this"

I was taught in US Government class the exact reason the Dems introduced SuperDelegates.

It is not on "The DNC" to explain this to you. They are an internal body. The only reason they're in the news is because of Russia and Sanders.

This is not a "Hill/DNC" thing. This is a "do your own research and stop believing what people tell you" thing.

 

[nature boy]

To think last week this place was full of hopium

and now

 

[Metalingus5150]

Now all these Jill Stein voting assholes on my Facebook are now talking about working together and rebuild the DNC. Sorry, fuck you! You voted for Trump. I agree the DNC needs to be rebuilt....but fuck you, stick with your fraudulent Green Party.

Remind them that the green party attacked Hillary saying that Trump was a better candidate. The so called "green" party said someone who thought climate change was a conspiracy. Jill Stein wanted to "bring everything down" and the expense of minorities.

 

[Pixieking]

I see where you're going with this. Just forget the midterms, none of us are coming together in time.

No. No-one should think like that. The mid-terms may suck, but we absolutely cannot just shrug and "forget them". Why? Because this:

These fucking losers need to go back in a hole somewhere.

http://dpss.umich.edu/news/?id=415

This should not be fucking happening. Nowhere, least of the US.

 

[mAcOdIn]

He's the one making wild promises.

Well sure but, for example, had Hillary Clinton won would you have expected employers to start offering equal pay before she was even inaugurated?

There will be plenty of things to hold Trump's feet to the fire over, Carrier still planning to leave is not one of them. I mean, fuck, for all we know Trump may stop Carrier from leaving, he's got until 2019 after all!

Look, I hate Donald Trump, if someone's dumb enough to be disenfranchised with their candidate before he even has a chance at doing what they wanted him to do, fine, that works in my favor, however, I don't think it behooves us to hold him accountable for failures that haven't even happened yet. If a Trump supporter does that on their own, awesome! But you try and tell someone he failed when he hasn't even got a chance yet and you're going to turn that person off because they know that's bullshit. Just think about how that made you feel when they did that to us in the past. Did it change your mind? Didn't think so.

 

[And_Gignac]

Basically my reaction to Morning Joe trying to mansplain this away.

cry moar Krugman. Him and VOX like pundits demonizing populism, shaming those who dared to question Clinton as a candidate, etc have tons of blame too.

 

[Slizeezyc]

What "talk like this"

I was taught in US Government class the exact reason the Dems introduced SuperDelegates.

It is not on "The DNC" to explain this to you. They are an internal body. The only reason they're in the news is because of Russia and Sanders.

This is not a "Hill/DNC" thing. This is a "do your own research and stop believing what people tell you" thing.

Yeah, more or less this. Plenty of things to talk about, but worrying about super delegates has really never been not silly. It's not new, it's not scary. It was a narrative but not actually a thing.

 

[lyrick]

What's this about?

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//petition/appoint-garland-now-senate-has-waived-its-rights

I See it making rounds on twitter

 

[Suikoguy]

cry moar Krugman. Him and VOX like pundits demonizing populism, shaming those who dared to question Clinton as a candidate, etc have tons of blame too.

Those fucking neoliberals!

 

[Chumley]

cry moar Krugman. Him and VOX like pundits demonizing populism, shaming those who dared to question Clinton as a candidate, etc have tons of blame too.

If we normalize populism or begin to think it's acceptable we might as well just launch the nukes right now.

 

[SamVimes]

Counting superdelegate votes in the primary prior to the last primaries is completely irresponsible.

If John Edwards wins the majority of delegates in '08. Then the story about him cheating on his cancer-ridden wife comes out.

They do not want to run John Edwards. It is a failsafe.

I get that. But why do you expect the guy chosen from up high to have any chance win? People would lose faith in the primary process and the vast majority of his voters wouldn't show up to support the candidate. It could cause a more lasting damage than just straight up choosing a bad candidate and losing.

 

[davepoobond]

here's something we should focus on more than superdelegates: foreign incursion in our election process.

 

[teruterubozu]

No. No-one should think like that. The mid-terms may suck, but we absolutely cannot just shrug and "forget them". Why? Because this:



This should not be fucking happening. Nowhere, least of the US.

I know, I'm just finding it hard to see any progress when we keep dismissing anybody who didn't elect Clinton (even 3rd party) as the "KKK". It's just ugh, so self-defeating.

 

[thebloo]

I see where you're going with this. Just forget the midterms, none of us are coming together in time.

Thing is, if you open your doors and just go "whoever wants in", you'll be back here in a few years. People join the Big Tent and then fuck off when something doesn't go their way. Which is normal, I don't blame them.

But you need a consistent base that will turn out each time and win you elections. Not people that become "single issue non-voters" in 2 seconds flat.

I didn't dismiss those voters as the KKK, I was just exaggerating for effect. Does the party really need "everyone"?