It's more loss mitigation.
Better to run the runner up than the actual Zodiac Killer.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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Better to run the runner up than the actual Zodiac Killer.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
I'd like to try to insure that not all white people are like this, of course you all know it, because we have white people posting here that voted for the right side, including myself.
VendettaRed07
Member
Quit being coy. You knew exactly what you were doing. "Go back to highschool idiot", because you can't even handle a slightly dissenting opinion on the existence of super delegates.
I did my own research in seeing the overwhelming negative opinions on superdelegates with democratic primary voters. They aren't necessary and there are alternative ways of solving disputes between primary winners. There's no one solution here. Surprisingly yes, I care about how other people feel about anti-democratic measures in place. I care about re-establishing trust, and would like the party to do what it needs to do in order to achieve that.
Telling people to just "deal with it", or "do your own research", and dismissing everything anyone else says, is what got us Trump.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I'm convinced the internet is making many people a lot dumber. I mean, we got counties here in Maine voting overwhelmingly to remove Flouride from the water because "it's toxic" or a "pollutant" or some hack shit like that. I don't even know anymore, it's really depressing.
The internet is one of the worst things to happen to public discourse because people can find a website online that backs up any batshit insane belief they have and then trot it out as evidence.
It's literally a historical fact. It is in our textbooks.
Research in actual sources, not "negative opinions".
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I also learned today from male liberals that being a women does not make it more difficult to obtain a position of power!
teruterubozu
Member
Well thank you that was more constructive. I didn't say everyone, but I'm just saying we need to move on a bit from this ostracizing, "3rd party voters are morons, Bernie supporters are delusional, and the rest are deplorable." It hasn't helped us at all, but I know this is a touchy subject right now.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Baffling, no doubt. I guess like racism, sexism is also dead!
It's not all that bad, there were people in that thread who were prompted to think about it and conclude differently.
Nobody reads the links in the OP tho
ShironRedshift
Member
Cry more yourself about Sanders getting destroyed by that very candidate. Do you have any actual criticism or disagreement with what he's saying there and how the media focused on nothingburgers that they knew with nothingburgers or are you going to just be salty more about your guy losing as well?
Like seriously. Ate you so naive as to believe that the way the media handled this election is a problem limited to Clinton? They would have played the same exact game with Sanders going had he win as well for the sake of the horse race and ratings and keeping eyeballs glued to the screen. Like the way they took Clinton's e-mails and stuff completely out if context for that horse race demonstrates they would have had no problem doing stuff like taking Sanders' college writings about "women fantasizing about being raped" out of context for that same effect. That WOULD be taking that stuff completely out of context, you'll get no disagreement from me there! But the media has clearly demonstrated they have no problem doing that if it keeps things close so Sanders would be no exception ESPECIALLY if he started pulling strongly ahead --the media would pull no punches in order to make things more even, like they did with Clinton.
If you refuse to recognize that this is indeed a systemic issue plaguing the media right now, with its obsession over ratings and the horse race and scandals over matters of policy to their sheer exclusion from being discussed at all for either candidate, then you're in for a rude awakening next time no matter who we nominate because those issues aren't going away and will still be there the next time unless we do our best to call it out now and not let the media off the hook and let them rewrite history, while we still have even the slightest chance of accomplishing such a goal.
These aren't sour grapes--they're just the facts and they will remains the facts regardless if who the candidates are unless we flat out call out that nonsense and do whatever we can to make sure they are held accountable while that has even the slightest chance of being possible.
thehypocrite
Member
Ignoring it got us Trump.
Of course we shouldn't ignore it. We need to be aware of it and fight it every way we can.
VendettaRed07
Member
One party has them and the other does not. It was used as a successful attack by Trump that the DNC used an undemocratic tool to install here and we didn't have a legitimate primary process. And we told everyone to go educate themselves but clearly the response to that was "fuck you, Trump".
It isn't a good look at all for a supers to overwhelmingly support one candidate over another and artificially inflate their lead. But whatever. Let's just double down and ignore people who dislike it and assume everything is fine the way it is.
And_Gignac
Member
Fighting it got us Clinton.
Krugman and his kin are trying to put the blame on everything but their flawed ideology. The media surely had a play into this whole disgusting mess, but sure that is the case for Trump too. All that mattered for the media was what outrageous thing Trump said about Beyonce this week. Trump was immune to it because his campaign had something Clinton's lacked.
It is not artificially inflating a lead.
If you are counting them before the actual primaries are over, you are doing it wrong.
All of this is predicated on the horribly misguided belief that if only "X Y or Z" had changed, Sanders would have won. Sanders was never going to win. Not vs Clinton, not in a 3 way w/ Biden. Not with no DWS. He was not getting the support he needd from key Democratic constituencies.
The reason only Clinton was running had nothing to do with the DNC- anyone was free to run. No one wanted to go up against the apparatus and support she had assembled internally, as she had the implied backing of President Obama.
Embracing it recklessly gives you Trump. Is the concept of moderation alien to you?
Thanks media
thehypocrite
Member
I don't agree. I think we need to empower the voters even more. I think their anger is justify, they maybe wrong on the how they think it can be solved or not, but I'm not going to delude myself thinking that I know what's better for everyone. Our battle shouldn't be against populism, no chance to win that really as a political party, is to frame it properly and fairly to the responsible parties. Ultimately, how you battle against populism is through empowerment of the voters, how you transition from here to there is the question. The GOP has provided their answer, the DNC needs to provide theirs in a way that's consonant to the values of the members of the party.
As a political moderate, one who voted for Hillary, one of the more surprising things to witness after Trump's win in the GE was the result it's had on democrats and liberals.
It seems like two main factions have emerged in the immediate aftermath Hillary's loss. One side wants to take the moral high road and say we should try to understand and empathize with Trump supporters and see things from their perspective, thus trying to create a sense of unity. The other side is saying "fuck that" and it's pointless to try and unite with them because the feeling is not mutual, and that liberals being too soft and not fighting back hard enough is why they lost to begin with. Personally I'm inclined to agree with the latter.
It'll be interesting to see where the party goes over the next few years, and if they do indeed decide to start fighting fire with fire regarding how they "work" with Republicans. It raises the question "is political unity worth fighting for when only one of the parties actually wants it and/or strives for it?"
It seems like two main factions have emerged in the immediate aftermath Hillary's loss. One side wants to take the moral high road and say we should try to understand and empathize with Trump supporters and see things from their perspective, thus trying to create a sense of unity. The other side is saying "fuck that" and it's pointless to try and unite with them because the feeling is not mutual, and that liberals being too soft and not fighting back hard enough is why they lost to begin with. Personally I'm inclined to agree with the latter.
It'll be interesting to see where the party goes over the next few years, and if they do indeed decide to start fighting fire with fire regarding how they "work" with Republicans. It raises the question "is political unity worth fighting for when only one of the parties actually wants it and/or strives for it?"
Well, honestly, 3rd Party voters are "morons". 6 million people went to the polls and basically said "I don't care who's President". Yes, more people are obviously needed, but the main problem is the discourse. The party shouldn't need people, the people should want the party.
The fact that over 40% of the country doesn't care about the process at all is fucking scary. And about 30% of the Registered Voters, did not show up, which means that they mostly made a step, but then forgot about it.
And that is a problem that both major parties should really really think about. Of course, the losers are more inclined to think about it, especially now.
The second side does not consider this a "moral high road" or a moral road at all.
metalslimer
Member
I mean people will attack her, but I mean there is really nothing to argue here. You could see the campaign thrown into chaos trying to defend itself, so they went on the attack for the last week and then tried to pivot off that on Monday in Philadelphia.
The thing is that regardless of Clinton winning or not, the Senate seems like it might have went to republicans anyway which is a problem in what should have been a good year for us there.
Do we need to regain the trust of the public? Yes, we should get rid of super delegates and all semi-closed primaries. No coronoations. But going super left would not help at all, and there is no evidence it does. I am willing to compromise some of my agendas but if the other side doesn't want to listen and WANT EVERYTHING down then that's their problem
and I want unity and to understand SOME of these supporters. Yes, they are some disgusting, awful people in the Trump side that I'll gladly wish they could choke it, but of those who seem to hate Hillary or felt ignored by the democrats and race isn't a big issue for them (eventhough it is), I am willing to talk.
and I want unity and to understand SOME of these supporters. Yes, they are some disgusting, awful people in the Trump side that I'll gladly wish they could choke it, but of those who seem to hate Hillary or felt ignored by the democrats and race isn't a big issue for them (eventhough it is), I am willing to talk.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
they have to keep half of the electorate happy, same as this campaign
What do you think is going to happen
I believe this. This was my greatest fear. If she was ahead by 4-5 nationally and he shaved off an extra point or two it perfectly explains the unexpected loss of PA, MI and WI.
If she lost because she was always going to, so be it. But now we may never know for sure. God dammit. This is gut wrenching.
I think I hate Comey more than Trump.
thehypocrite
Member
I was going to provide a message about how we need to unify, however I also have apprehension about the libertarian party as well. I guess ultimately, we need to be more humble and honest and I don't know how it works in the USA but can the DNC presidential candidate be the same for one of the smaller parties? Do you even want to do that? The third parties are usually good for marginal gains but we have internal schisms to solve first.
I genuinely want the Dems (and Repubs, but hah, fat chance) to try and catch Comey for violation of the Hatch Act. Even if they can't, there needs to be a sign that doing what he did isn't allowed... or else, Hatch is not worth the paper it's written on.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
We don't need to work with the Green Party, abandoning science is a dumb idea. We need to brin in the Dems who decided the Green Party was better for them. Specifically the activist wing.
metalslimer
Member
Pretty much all the evidence doesn't point to him violating it though. He seemed to be trying to stave off an inevitable leak that was going to come from his neonazi subordinates. To violate it, there has to be proof of intent. And if he really want to swing it, he would have left the investigation open past the election.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Reconciliation with Republicans is impossible and empathy should not be wasted on people who are still Republicans. 65% of Republicans voted for Cruz or Trump in the primaries over people like Jeb who were at least sane. Hillary reached out desperately for the other 35% and got none of them because they cared more her emails than Trump mocking disabled reporters or talking about assassinating. There should be no Republican outreach ever again for a presidential election.
The Obama to Trump voters should be analyzed so we can win them back, but I don't know if empathy is necessary, more just understanding what these people want and how they can be persuaded.
The Obama to Trump voters should be analyzed so we can win them back, but I don't know if empathy is necessary, more just understanding what these people want and how they can be persuaded.
You can't. They will always flake.
I do think Hillary got a chunk of those GOP voters. They weren't the ones who came out in droves.
Veritigo_X
Member
There are people that voted green that can work with the democratic party, many are probably former democrats after all. However, green party leadership seems full of antisemitism that I want nothing to do with. They can stay in their own party.
Well, since even the Republicans where mad at it too there might be some hope as surely they realize it can come back to bite them as well later on down road. But yeah, the fact that it might have helped them in the end means who knows now.
https://www.facebook.com/mmflint
If you go to the recent archived videos, around 20 minutes in on the most recent one there's a guy Moore talks to who voted for Obama, likes Michael Moore's movies, but voted for Trump and thinks the polls are rigged by liberals. Michael Moore even calmly tells him that statistics show what he's saying is incorrect, but the guy brushes it off and says the stats are wrong.
This is the kind of stuff populism is breeding. If we give up to that, to this alternate fact-free reality, how will we ever appoint a liberal to anything ever again? Trump is brainwashing these people, this is the most clear sign of rising fascism there can possibly be.
Intent is hard to prove, sure... But in that case the burden of proof is so high that I think only the dumbest could be prosecuted. And as to your last point, the article says that the quick closure before election day gave the appearance of rigging, which I would agree with, in hindsight.
thehypocrite
Member
Why should people want the party if they feel it adds no value to their lives and feel the opposite is more likely? We need to be more humble, all of us. Please try to understand how this poison a lot of the dialog. Stop calling people _______ cause they have different values than you. I'm not even saying to agree with them, I'm not even saying that all of them are good, but if you don't expose yourself to listen you'll never really know what they think, weather common ground can be found, weather we can work together for something better or not. However, this doesn't mean to become racist, or fear wifi or anything like that. The values of the party and the voting block are principal, we aren't throwing that under the bus and those that have problems with that will not find a common ground with us and that's ok. But there'll be some that do and we need them, not the reverse.
Wow, thats fucked up. Got a link?
Seriously? I think we need to dial things down a notch. We used to have politicians running in this country that supported slavery. We had immigrations quota and bans on different races. Politicians arguing that women shouldn't have the right to vote.
This current climate needn't be the end and can change.
Go to https://www.facebook.com/mmflint and then the protests at Trump tower sat nov 12 video, about 40 min in for muslim kid
The third party can opt to endorse the Democratic or Republican candidate (not DNC or RNC candidate...get some sleep man).
If they file paperwork the proper name would probably appear on the ballot under the third party's name.
Social media worries me to a big degree. The way the alt-right, Russian troll farms and the like have been able to demonize and stoke fear is scary. People like to think that some day all these old bigots or sexists or whatever will die out but there's a new generation being radicalized online right now. I don't know what can be done about it.
thehypocrite
Member
That's a GOP talking point, not a result of populism. The DNC allowed them to capture these people cause the party in power doesn't and will hardly ever admit this truths to the people, but they know something is wrong. This where Sanders succeeded and Hillary couldn't. He was an outsider that could voice this within the party and be genuine about it. The problem isn't populism, the issue is that we allowed the GOP to frame it. That was maybe the battle that defined this election.
Obama also ran on populism as well. I guess, the party in power that's captured by the institutions of power cannot be authentic in regards to populism, that's an opportunity that from the outside we need to explore and use responsible to reverse the trends of GOP control. I don't think we are above it, but we should be responsible about it.
The two parties that elect the entirety of the branches of government do not add value to people's lives? That's absurd and I'm sure that you know that.
Also, I've exposed myself and listened a lot. So have a lot of people in this thread. I know it sounds so good to be the bigger man, but sometimes it just doesn't work.
thehypocrite
Member
Then that's an option to consider. (Will do).
He helped seal Trump's election. Trump also called the 14th amendment questionable btw. So yeah, thanks for helping ruin Human decency in US politics Comey.
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