lol the media was sucking Trump off this entire election. Let Fox News buy out CNN at this point. I don't expect them to hit him as hard as we anticipate. He's got at least one more year of getting deepthroated by CNN.
CNN was my network out of habit for my entire lifetime, but since Tuesday I'm writing them off permanently. It's sickening how complacent they were with things in the campaign, and that was while Trump was wishing the network a timely death and threatening them legally! Crows were chanting "CNN sucks!" but, hey, thisisfine.gif everyone. They're exceptionally guilty of being irresponsible because of their (at least theoretical) starting position as not instantly heavy toward either party.
Gonna need a source on the bolded. Pretty sure the Republican side of the aisle isn't okay with that sort of thing unless it includes a melanin test as part of the application.
Just had a substantial minimum wage hike (plus automatic adjustment) + mandatory sick leave passed here in good ol red AZ 59 to 41. There's of course the crazy "free market/privatize the everything" republicans that will never go along with it, but people are catching on to these ideas.
Just had a substantial minimum wage hike (plus automatic adjustment) + mandatory sick leave passed here in good ol red AZ 59 to 41. There's of course the crazy "free market/privatize the everything" republicans that will never go along with it, but people are catching on to these ideas.
Yea, look at all the Republicans who supported it!
*crickets*
He asked for a source on the claim that Republican lawmakers are starting to support increases in minimum wage and you offered a ballot initiative supported by dozens of democrats and unions, and opposed by literally John McCain and tons of Republican-friendly groups.
I think his point is that a significant number of Republican *voters* do, not that the Republican Party does. If all Republican voters agreed with the Republican Party on this issue, the initiative would not have passed given Arizona is red. Therefore, this is a wedge issue the Democrats can drive between the Republican Party and Republican voters.
I was despondent for one day- however by the end of that day I made a promise to get involved in local politics. To all of those that are down, I'm just telling youthat having that plan has me as optimistic as I've ever been. I live in a dark blue state right now but will probably relocate at some point.
I've been thinking about it. Rural America voted on Tuesday to put a fascist adjacent populist demagogue with a strong history of minority scapegoating into the White House. I know how that ends. They voted to kill me. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but the attempt stands.
Logically, the only response is to try and kill them first. So, let's go all in on driverless trucks, driverless tractors too. Let's get really nuts with automation, and let's maneuver our way into the Popular Vote Compact becoming a thing in 270 EVs worth of states so that those populations are never, ever heard from again.
I think his point is that a significant number of Republican *voters* do, not that the Republican Party does. If all Republican voters agreed with the Republican Party on this issue, the initiative would not have passed given Arizona is red. Therefore, this is a wedge issue the Democrats can drive between the Republican Party and Republican voters.
I've been thinking about it. Rural America voted on Tuesday to put a fascist adjacent populist demagogue with a strong history of minority scapegoating into the White House. I know how that ends. They voted to kill me. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but the attempt stands.
Logically, the only response is to try and kill them first. So, let's go all in on driverless trucks, driverless tractors too. Let's get really nuts with automation, and let's maneuver our way into the Popular Vote Compact becoming a thing in 270 EVs worth of states so that those populations are never, ever heard.
Truck Driver is the most common job in quite a few blue states, like California. This isn't an issue that only effects rural communities. Driverless cars could make California redder.
Nobody noticed. Wasn't a headline policy, and her messaging was incredibly tepid. If you asked the average Rust Belt voter, I don't think they'd know she did, because she wasted all her time on Trump attack ads.
I'm a skinny fuck at the best of times, but I'm now down to the lowest weight I've been in my life. The last few days got rid of my belly, and now skin-and-bones around my chest.
Also:
No, seriously guys, Trump is gonna be fucked very shortly, if he continues like this.
Free trade is fine if you have strong rights for employees like most every other developed country. Minimum wage hikes and things like mandatory sick leave are passing at the state level. People are ready for that sort of reform, on both sides of the aisle. They don't want to see more junk like TPP.
The question is about the message though (I have no idea if TPP is junk). Canada makes an emphasis on trade as a job creation tool for their middle class and to help others join the middle class.
Nobody noticed. Wasn't a headline policy, and her messaging was incredibly tepid. If you asked the average Rust Belt voter, I don't think they'd know she did, because she wasted all her time on Trump attack ads.
Factually may be correct, but this is the electorate that voted (at least partially) against Hillary's Wall Street/Clinton Foundation connections, and the perception of guilt surrounding emails. Just because it's legally okay, does not mean the voters will go for it.
A populist president who got in on populist policies, explicitly not giving a damn and unable to help himself from being corrupt. I'm hoping a lot, but this is unprecedented in so many ways.
She did but I still feel her campaign should have pushed those things harder. I don't think I ever saw a single ad of that sort all election. And as much as it sucks to admit it, a lot of people just didn't believe/trust her :/
Right - to $12 over the course of 8 years. Ain't nobody got time for that; the Rust Belt is dying *now*. Milquetoast doesn't even cover it, especially when other candidates were beating the $15 drum. You just sound like you don't really mean it when you spend all your time running away from that. When your message comes down to gradual increases over an extended period of time and the electorate wants immediacy, you're not going anywhere.
Also, obviously, in isolation it isn't enough. It would need to be part of a comprehensive package for industrial areas. But it remains a true fact that initiatives to increase the minimum wage are, in isolation, vote winners in red areas.
I feel so helpless. I live in the US Virgin Islands, so other than voting in primaries there is nothing I can do that I feel will make a difference. Considering moving my family to York PA where my sister lives and working with my niece on local politics there.
Hillary was not effective in communicating that message. And, if we're totally honest, part of that has to do with her not being a credible vessel for such a message.
If you want to ignore a significant portion of the country suffering wage stagnation in real terms, you can, but it will obviously come at a high cost. That's not an endorsement of the promises made by the GOP, but it's definitely an issue people are listening for. The economy always matters.
Right - to $12 over the course of 8 years. Ain't nobody got time for that; the Rust Belt is dying *now*. Milquetoast doesn't even cover it, especially when other candidates were beating the $15 drum. You just sound like you don't really mean it when you spend all your time running away from that. When your message comes down to gradual increases over an extended period of time and the electorate wants immediacy, you're not going anywhere.
Also, obviously, in isolation it isn't enough. It would need to be part of a comprehensive package for industrial areas. But it remains a true fact that initiatives to increase the minimum wage are, in isolation, vote winners in red areas.
I think this is sort of like, "Well you did it but not how I would have done it." And I get it, she didn't hammer it. But I don't think that's the problem, actually. I think she did mention it a lot and the other candidate said exactly the opposite so I'm not sure it's the message itself that mattered.
The issue is she didn't mention it TO THEM. She should have been in Shit Bay, Wisconsin, in Shittsburgh, PA, wherever that is, in Shitnt, Michigan, in Philthydelphia, in Madishit, in Turdsing, and those places, SAYING she would raise the minimum wage. But she didn't because those people are dirty and don't have teeth.
The Arizona trip was so stupid and if you think about it even Nate Bronze said so!!!!! ARGHHH
edit: Besides, don't union people make a lot more than minimum wage?
I'm gonna have to take a short break from politics threads. I keep thinking that I'm finally adjusting, but every night I go to sleep, it gets interrupted by waking up in a cold sweat*. I need to find a way to recharge real bad.
*
And I live in DC, which voted for Hillary 90%. Imagine how racial, sexual, religious minorities and women feel in red parts of the country right now.
I've had a lot of intelligent conversations on here (OT, not so much, unfortunately). I just want to thank all of you for giving me a listening ear and taking part in some introspection. We have a very tough road going forward but as we unify come out in big numbers during '18 and '20, we can turn the tables. I'll say once again that there are going to be a lot of people in the next few years who will realize that the man they supported will not be able to keep any of the promises that related to economic stability. We need to take advantage of that hard. Not by lying like he did and saying that those factory and mining are totally coming back. But by sitting down with them and having an honest conversation about what needs to be done to change their situation. And we need White Liberals help to pull this off. Right now minorities have to play a balancing act between standing up for themselves and staying safe, you can't expect us to carry too much of the weight by ourselves. Stop permanently closing yourselves off from your family and friends with appalling views and at least try to engage them. You have leverage to do so that blacks/latinos/asians/muslims/LGBT/etc. do not.
The purity tests need to stop, too. I know it sucks that you aren't able to move forward as quickly as you wish, but that's a reality that minorities have to live with every day. There are going to be several moments where your choices are not as Black & White as you'd wish they would be, but you can't run away. That's how Republicans just got full control of the government and slowed down (and may very likely, even reverse) progress. Don't fall for the "both sides" trap and actually think long and hard about how things can be affected with your vote going forward. If you find yourself in a position where you simply cannot abide by either person at the top of the ticket no matter what, at least vote for the down ticket in your state. If we got more senate seats this round, it would've made fighting back against what Trump and the GOP plans so much easier. And it's very likely that the Supreme Court is now going to turn hard right for the next generation. We all in the same boat, people, a little compromise and loyalty is not the devil.
Good luck going forward, PoliGAF, we need to stand together and fight back now more than ever. I want the GOP to remember the day that they let Donald Trump enter the White House to be the hugest mistake they could've made for years on end.
If you feel like protesting against this administration, then do so. Don't let anybody try to tell you that you're being petty, people's lives and self-worth as human beings are on the line here. But try not to do any demonstrations that involve desecrating the flag. I understand 100% why you would want to do that, but the reality is is that we live in a country where people care more about symbols than they do other people. That's what it is. I don't want to see the conversation lose its focus in anyway from how the upcoming administration goes against the brilliant standard that our country deserves to achieve.
Nobody noticed. Wasn't a headline policy, and her messaging was incredibly tepid. If you asked the average Rust Belt voter, I don't think they'd know she did, because she wasted all her time on Trump attack ads.
I sincerely doubt that. Those rust better likely make m (or made) more than the minimum wage and wrongfully see minimum wage hikes as negatifely affecting their bottom line.
I think this is sort of like, "Well you did it but not how I would have done it." And I get it, she didn't hammer it. But I don't think that's the problem, actually. I think she did mention it a lot and the other candidate said exactly the opposite so I'm not sure it's the message itself that mattered.
The issue is she didn't mention it TO THEM. She should have been in Shit Bay, Wisconsin, in Shittsburgh, PA, wherever that is, in Shitnt, Michigan, in Philthydelphia, in Madishit, in Turdsing, and those places, SAYING she would raise the minimum wage. But she didn't because those people are dirty and don't have teeth.
The Arizona trip was so stupid and if you think about it even Nate Bronze said so!!!!! ARGHHH
I don't think we disagree then? I mean I agree with everything you say here, I'm just adding that big headline announcements get attention. I'm not actually super convinced her campaign schedule was that bad. I think Trump's domination of national media was the real kicker.
Before the election his final prediction was: Either Clinton has a blow out, Clinton wins solidly, or Trump wins narrowly. I mean, one of those things happened, but you don't get to say "the coin will be either heads or tails" after spending a solid year laughing that tails was impossible, and then mock everyone else who called heads.
Much like Michael Moore, this was strategically set up for ex-post vindication. He'd be gloating no matter what happened because he covered his options better than he did in the primary.
People need to realize that Hillary getting hammered for a year is endogenous to Hillary being the nominee. I think that we'd all have been better off with a more robust (and less scorched earth) primary, but one simply can't look at their approvals and go "wow, such an obviously win." That is just a complete failure of critical thinking.
That said, it was worse in Hillary's case because her likelihood of getting the nom was so obvious for so long.
This is actually likely depressingly true. I doubt anyone else could have toxified Hillary as effectively, or pushed turnout where he did as hard as he did.
the worst part is, can someone channel his political strengths without his political weaknesses? Or are they one in the same? I honestly have no idea.
I don't think we disagree then? I mean I agree with everything you say here, I'm just adding that big headline announcements get attention. I'm not actually super convinced her campaign schedule was that bad. I think Trump's domination of national media was the real kicker.
I think it was pretty bad. She did like one or two small quaint gatherings a day and Trump was doing six big rallies.
I guess rallies matter!
And she was taking four or five days off as late as late October. For debate prep. Against someone who couldn't tie his shoes. Maybe she just liked debate prep more than campaigning.
Big headline announcements mean nothing when nobody is interested in covering it.
Like, different policies... if no one is interested in asking questions about policy, or writing stories about policy.
Also she sucked at rallies.
Adam Bonica, a political scientist at Stanford, used Crowdpac to pose questions to voters that allowed him to explore this gulf in a study of the views of the supporters of all the candidates.
Bonica said in an email that many of the responses suggested that Trump loyalists could be described as authoritarian/nationalists. Nearly nine out of ten Trump supporters agreed that people living in the U.S. should follow American customs and learn English, the single strongest predictor of Trump support. One out of four Clinton supporters shared this view.
An even larger 97 percent of Trump voters agreed that patriotism and protecting our national identity is important, compared with 55 percent of Clinton backers. 15 percent of Trump voters said the country should offer a path to citizenship for all undocumented immigrants, compared with 81 percent of Clinton supporters.
In my anecdotal evidence, the white working class has been turned against the minimum wage already. It's already a large partisan issue here in Wisconsin. Those even predisposed to the right fucking hate the idea. Bernie-esque liberals love it. Those in the middle... don't really like it either.
Some thoughts:
After Trump pushes through his proposed tax cuts, unless things swiftly go to shit in his first term, his reelection in 2020 becomes almost assured, as working class whites and most voters overall will not be receptive to a candidate calling for a big tax increase. It's a lose lose for democrats, either you adopt the tax and spend democrat label or you abandon that revenue and stick to calling for increases on the one percent. Our debt is going to be yuge
The supreme court has two octogenarians on it, both of them important to the left wing's balance. If Trump wins in 2020 RBG is almost assuredly gone and whether she makes it through the next 4 years is a toss up. Same for Kennedy. Also, Souter is 78
Some thoughts:
After Trump pushes through his proposed tax cuts, unless things swiftly go to shit in his first term, his reelection in 2020 becomes almost assured, as working class whites and most voters overall will not be receptive to a candidate calling for a big tax increase. It's a lose lose for democrats, either you adopt the tax and spend democrat label or you abandon that revenue and stick to calling for increases on the one percent. Our debt is going to be yuge
The supreme court has two octogenarians on it, both of them important to the left wing's balance. If Trump wins in 2020 RBG is almost assuredly gone and whether she makes it through the next 4 years is a toss up. Same for Kennedy. Also, Souter is 78
75% of minimum wage earners are white and 8 states have passed minimum wage increases in the last few years. All winning by double digits except Colorado at 9.
Trump's tax plan gives lowest quintile income earners like $100 more a year, and second lowest quintile like $900, while highest income quintile earners get like $25,000 on average. So I don't see any issue with letting that lapse and running on a much better tax plan that won't increase these people's tax bill at all.
75% of minimum wage earners are white and 8 states have passed minimum wage increases in the last few years. All winning by double digits except Colorado at 9.
The marginal voter here (if you're worried about WWC) isn't making minimum wage and doesn't want to be.
They're upset because jobs paying much more than that are disappearing and only leaving the min wage ones in their wake. It's much more dangerous to prioritize in these areas that are declining as a result.
There was no air in the media for covering anything other than whatever Trump was doing moment to moment and the latest update on Clinton's 'scandals'. Trump got something like $4 billion in free coverage, Clinton wasn't breaking through that no matter what she said.
Losers who say that you shouldn't end up friendships over rabid hatred of Muslims or over domestic violence because "that's just politics" are losers I hope lose their job in Trump's trade war tbh.
