campfireweekend
Member
Again, stop blaming people. Seriously. This is conceding to Republican talking points. She's going to win the popular vote by upwards of 2 million.
The American people did not want this.
PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
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The American people did not want this.
UltimaPooh
Member
True but he is filling a void until something else happens. Clearly leadership aren't there yet, except for Warren.
Team Alucard
Banned
Why shouldn't they be interested in curating news so that it only shows actual news?
Poodlestrike
Banned
Because with great power comes great responsibility.
Corny but true. Facebook controls how a lot of people get their information, that in itself gives them a responsivity to make sure that that information is, at minimum, based in reality.
Obama carried a populist message, McCain/Romney didn't. Clinton let Trump carry the populist message. That's not Bernie's fault. Bernie understood the need to reach out to working class whites as part of the coalition. Clinton ignored them. Hell, here on gaf you had people criticizing Bernie for trying to appeal to them. Gaf saw it as a zero sum game, as if Bernie had to throw out minorities to get the rust belt whites even though Obama had already shown how it's possible.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
He's not doing anything except releasing poignant essays in response to Trump's election. He's not filling any voids in a party he isn't a member of. Until he joins the actual party he is just the most prominent also-ran from the previous cycle who happens to have a cult of personality following. Like a way less douchey John Edwards.
UltimaPooh
Member
People are rushing to that tho is the point. He might not be actively filling the void but people are wanting him to.
This is kind of a moot and not that great of an argument... so you win.
Officerrob
Banned
I'm all for embracing Bernie more, but the party can't be one that turns every fucking issue into billionaires and Wall St. either
It's sad that politics has devolved to this, but here we are. Bernie already made a stand on who he wants to be the DNC chair. Anyone who proposes someone else will be definitely be politicized.
Join or die is perhaps pretty apt.
Poodlestrike
Banned
People on GAF criticized Bernie for going after liberal white as if it was a zero sum game because Bernie was treating it as a zero sum game. Pivoting from criminal justice to economic populism, pivoting from immigration to economic populism, pivoting from literally any minority issue to economic populism. Sure, he'd talk about that stuff, but only after you pressed the hell out of him on it.
Clinton absolutely failed to court the WWC in the rust belt, that's true.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
Sorry, I didn't mean to come off overly confrontational I've just been at it with "he would have won" Berners on facebook all day.
shinra-bansho
Member
Yeh Bernie Sanders is going to help the Democrats hold onto ruby red seats in the Senate. Ok.
UltimaPooh
Member
It's fine... I've been confrontational all day with the diet racists and sexists... so I think I've hit my argument quota for the day.
There's a lot of people out there with the "fuck you, got mine" mentality.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
I said and will always say that Biden was the best possible option.
metalslimer
Member
Yeah I don't want to fight with the people who don't hate me anymore.
I'm willing to give other ideas a chance if they have a reasonable plan
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
The Tea Party has control of both houses, the presidency, and probably soon they'll have SCOTUS.
Not sure Dems making a tea party is such a terrible idea.
Team Alucard
Banned
Only thing that's going to save those seats is if Paul Ryan tries to privatize SS and medicare.
Tea Party was successful because it was bankrolled by billionaires. A leftist equivalent would not have any real financial backing and thus would never get off the ground.
shinra-bansho
Member
That would actually require effort. Beyond tweeting dank memes.
eBay Huckster
Member
well, he's already on record saying he wants to try one of those things again, so
I feel it's necessary to find the cause of this mess.
For me, it's the media and it's the voters.
The media is well explained and obvious.
But the voters don't like to blame themselves, but it's the only cause that makes sense to me.
Polls showed Hillary winning. That means everybody who was called up was asked "Who are you voting for". Hillary was leading in the swing states she lost.
So people said they were voting for Hillary for weeks on end and when election day comes...they don't.
This is some serious "What the shit" business and I want to know why.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
I don't know how you form a far-left insurgency without going full blown socialist. Even if you tone it down to Bernie's democratic-socialism explanation all the WWC hears is "government handouts."
VendettaRed07
Member
I mentioned it because even though it was that way, it stuck on her for a reason. She fumbled and couldn't handle a single question on it well and had no ability to dismiss it as "its nothing". It isn't like Republicans didn't try baseless partisan faux scandal on Obama like they did on both the Clinton's. They did but it didn't stick because he didn't get caught up lying about stuff so frequently. Like Hillary's description of what Comey said about her claims that she used one device instead of two was "truthful". Like, that obviously not true and completely false statement was her defense. It was dangerous to nominate someone who's trustworthiness was so low that they had no ability to be able to brush off partisan attacks.
aspiegamer
Member
Massive corporate astroturfing and the largest media audience in the country also needed.
htttpwwwyahoocom
Member
I just want to rant a little and I have nowhere else to do so (friends are so dejected about everything, no one wants to discuss it).
Yesterday, I was convinced Bernie could've won it. But then I saw the results from the single-payer initiative in Colorado and disagree with that assessment. They voted OVERWHELMINGLY against it. This was one of his big policy proposals to help the working class and a more liberal than average state destroyed it.
He was right about feelings on trade and I guess that might have allowed him to eek out a win? But Republicans demonized Obamacare so much that I don't see how Bernie campaigning on Medicare For All doesn't get raked through the coals just as much.
However, I want to say that I believe that Democrats need to stop fighting among each other and figure out what the campaigns of Hillary, Bernie, and Obama did well and what they did wrong and try to correct them. Casting blame solves nothing and simply makes the party weaker.
Bernie did a good job on messaging single-payer with Medicare For All but I don't know if that would have allowed to him to not get trashed over it. He did a good job identifying outrage with trade (even though I disagree that this is a real issue). He did not appeal to minorities and that's why he lost the primary. Minorities did not turn out as well for Hillary as they did for Obama so I would assume that they'd be even less likely to turn out for him; however, that might be a bad assumption.
Hillary made in-roads in traditionally red states: Texas, Georgia, and Arizona. She did very well in Texas compared to Obama. So that's at least one positive. But yeah the campaign was trying to expand the map when they should've been playing defense. The data was wrong (at least publicly).
Operating under hypotheticals is hard. If the Comey letter had not been released, would she have won? I think so, obviously by a much smaller margin than polls showed but the margins were so small in "firewall" that I believe she would've won. So under that assumption, they were attempting to flip NC to get a Senate seat and a Governorship which makes sense. Wisconsin seemed like a lock for Feingold too so that's another issue. But I realize the Comey letter is the risk you take when you nominate someone who is under an investigation like that. You also know that the email issue was not covered in a fair way by the media and that was obviously not going to change.
I don't know, I just needed to write some stuff down even if it's garbage! I could keep writing about this forever I find the whole thing both interesting and horrifying.
Yesterday, I was convinced Bernie could've won it. But then I saw the results from the single-payer initiative in Colorado and disagree with that assessment. They voted OVERWHELMINGLY against it. This was one of his big policy proposals to help the working class and a more liberal than average state destroyed it.
He was right about feelings on trade and I guess that might have allowed him to eek out a win? But Republicans demonized Obamacare so much that I don't see how Bernie campaigning on Medicare For All doesn't get raked through the coals just as much.
However, I want to say that I believe that Democrats need to stop fighting among each other and figure out what the campaigns of Hillary, Bernie, and Obama did well and what they did wrong and try to correct them. Casting blame solves nothing and simply makes the party weaker.
Bernie did a good job on messaging single-payer with Medicare For All but I don't know if that would have allowed to him to not get trashed over it. He did a good job identifying outrage with trade (even though I disagree that this is a real issue). He did not appeal to minorities and that's why he lost the primary. Minorities did not turn out as well for Hillary as they did for Obama so I would assume that they'd be even less likely to turn out for him; however, that might be a bad assumption.
Hillary made in-roads in traditionally red states: Texas, Georgia, and Arizona. She did very well in Texas compared to Obama. So that's at least one positive. But yeah the campaign was trying to expand the map when they should've been playing defense. The data was wrong (at least publicly).
Operating under hypotheticals is hard. If the Comey letter had not been released, would she have won? I think so, obviously by a much smaller margin than polls showed but the margins were so small in "firewall" that I believe she would've won. So under that assumption, they were attempting to flip NC to get a Senate seat and a Governorship which makes sense. Wisconsin seemed like a lock for Feingold too so that's another issue. But I realize the Comey letter is the risk you take when you nominate someone who is under an investigation like that. You also know that the email issue was not covered in a fair way by the media and that was obviously not going to change.
I don't know, I just needed to write some stuff down even if it's garbage! I could keep writing about this forever I find the whole thing both interesting and horrifying.
Team Alucard
Banned
Even if he's delusional enough to try it, the rest of the GOP will recognize how much of a disaster it would be for them and nip that shit in the bud really quickly. They remember what happened in 2006.
UltimaPooh
Member
Things will be clearer later on... I think the past two days have had enough infighting. We should be at the point where it's out of our systems.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
I saw a thread on /pol/ yesterday where they were already trying to rationalize his pool of cabinet choices. A lot of people who thought some swamp draining was going to happen are in for a very rude awakening.
Sure its necessary,I mean I dont what else can be done to get people to vote.
I thought atleast all of this nonsense will.
shinra-bansho
Member
It will get drained and filled with inferior Trump brand swampwater.
I think priority number one for us right now is winning two gubernatorial elections in 2017. We need to hold Virginia and flip New Jersey. Any Virginians or New Jerseyans need to start looking for quality candidates up and down their state right now.
Same goes for 2018. Regardless of where you live, start researching all of the possibly candidates statewide and get in touch with them and the party. The debate over what to do nationally will go on for a while, but there is one truth that all of us need to accept: we need to start winning on the local level before we can become a truly successful party again. Start planning for 2018 right now and do what it takes to win local races.
Same goes for 2018. Regardless of where you live, start researching all of the possibly candidates statewide and get in touch with them and the party. The debate over what to do nationally will go on for a while, but there is one truth that all of us need to accept: we need to start winning on the local level before we can become a truly successful party again. Start planning for 2018 right now and do what it takes to win local races.
VendettaRed07
Member
In the long run Tea Parties helped the GOP and pretty much got them everything that they wanted. We need a green tea party as well. People don't care about policy in a general election, so getting dragged to the left shouldn't matter.
His proposals were designed to make you feel better about the issues while simultaneously making those very issues worse. His one solid policy proposal was designed to do the opposite of what he said it would and people actually bought it.
It ain't getting drained, he's just dumping toxic waste in there.
eBay Huckster
Member
we'll see where that goes, especially since a lot of the old guard that shitcanned it is gone
but even the discussion of privatizing both in 2006 was enough to put some nails in that incarnation of the GOP's coffin
It's someone else's swamp water, he just put his label on it.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
I dunno, with the 2010 -16 primary purges a lot of that old guard has gone. They will probably discuss it loudly enough for people to hear.
VendettaRed07
Member
They voted, but like Moore said it was a depressed turnout. As in, they voted, but they didn't phonebank and bring other people to the pools because they were so excited like they were in the primary. Maybe Teachout individual doesn't win, I dunno. But overall dems with a candidate people were much more enthused about would have been better for down ballot dems.
Left tea party is the only way 2018 seriously limits Trump's damage. Dem party needs to wake the fuck up and support these anti-trump protests, help organize them and build new political candidates from them to infuse new faces into the party, just like tea party. Dem money needs to fund the organization of these protests, bus people out to them etc, just like tea party.
This luke warm dem shit doesn't work. Policy can be mid-left, but the persona needs to be loud and populist. Warren is a good model. American people don't pay enough attention for policy to be the first concern -- it's more about being inspirational and believable. Even polls for bernie supporters backed that up.
First and foremost, american people want the country to be rebalanced -- there's a desire to tear down the elites (economic and political) and there were enough people that thought trump could do it and they thought it was worth the potential dangers, but if you can combine that populism with pro-diversity inclusion and positivity, I think you have the winning formula and you leave republicans with only their bigoted core. There's a strong racist cohort in america, but the fact that trump got fewer votes than romney and clinton shows it's beatable -- but you can't beat it with the same politicians america is tired of.
Vestal
Junior Member
Florida.... Florida..... Florida..
That is my ground zero for the next 2 years. I will be doing everything possible to get Rick Scott the fuck out of here and electing a Democrat to the Governorship.
Teachout couldn't win in a state we carried, a state that was damn near built for Dems.The Bernie-style candidates all lost badly, they all ran behind Clinton in a big way.
There is no quick fix for this, Democratic politics is probably dead for the next 10+ years
I say this partially because I'm not particularly inspired by the infighting going on in the Democratic party right now. I'm hoping we bounce back from this like we did after 2004 and not 1984...
I think trade is a good thing for the world, Bernie does not agree.
I think economic development for classes would not help racial issues, Bernie does not agree.
I don't think wall street or billionaires are filled with complete demons, Bernie does not agree.
Bernie Sanders really just comes off as someone who's a bit stubborn to play leader. I think he'll be great voice and influence of the party but he doesn't resonate with me, sorry.
Warren on the other hand...
I think economic development for classes would not help racial issues, Bernie does not agree.
I don't think wall street or billionaires are filled with complete demons, Bernie does not agree.
Bernie Sanders really just comes off as someone who's a bit stubborn to play leader. I think he'll be great voice and influence of the party but he doesn't resonate with me, sorry.
Warren on the other hand...
In addition to the issues of successful foreign and domestic political espionage, the media broadly decided that she was the next president, and that vetting her was their primary responsibility. They are also very afraid of Being Out of Touch, and so they insisted on treating the Trump campaign as a normal part of US politics, instead of more appropriately as a hate movement.
Congrats America
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