Support NeoGAF

[metalslimer]

Teachout couldn't win in a state we carried, a state that was damn near built for Dems.The Bernie-style candidates all lost badly, they all ran behind Clinton in a big way.

The drug pricing measure also failed in California. I mean maybe there is some example of how the party needs to move much farther towards the left economically but it wasn't reflected in the results. If anything Kanders candidacy shows the opposite.

 

[Bowdz]

There is no quick fix for this, Democratic politics is probably dead for the next 10+ years

I say this partially because I'm not particularly inspired by the infighting going on in the Democratic party right now. I'm hoping we bounce back from this like we did after 2004 and not 1984...

Lol, I wouldn't freakout too much about infighting right now. The GOP was in an open civil war as late as 4 weeks ago and now they own the government top to bottom. One of the peaks of Democratic unity this cycle was right after a contentious and raucous DNC. It's okay to have fervent and passionate disagreements. It's probably one of the most important things we can do to forge a stronger party.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Teachout couldn't win in a state we carried, a state that was damn near built for Dems.The Bernie-style candidates all lost badly, they all ran behind Clinton in a big way.

Yeah, I guess so...

But again, a lot of the "Bernie-style" candidates didn't have what he had personally. He was likable and relatable and people truly believed he gave a shit and was overall a genuine good guy. A lot of the green tea party liberal leftist don't have that.

The answer isn't "run liberal utopian candidates" that is the wrong conclusion to draw. But I guess at the same time we should also say don't be afraid of one of those guys if people actually really really like them, because then the rest of the details might not matter.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Did Kander really run to right though other than guns? He talked about BLM, health care, unions, and his biggest policy accomplishment was his ethics reform. He was a bit hawkish I guess but I don't think that was a big part of his run.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

This wasn't about turnout but persuasion. Voters did turn out.

 

[Blader]

There is no quick fix for this, Democratic politics is probably dead for the next 10+ years

I say this partially because I'm not particularly inspired by the infighting going on in the Democratic party right now. I'm hoping we bounce back from this like we did after 2004 and not 1984...

If there's something to take solace in, it's that these kinds of predictions are frequently so wrong.

2004 was supposed to be the start of the permanent Republican majority, but two years later Dems took both houses of Congress, and two years after that we elected the first black President. Up until Election Day, we were talking about the impending demise of the GOP; 48 hours later, they're suddenly at their strongest in decades.

I don't think enough time has passed for anything in the DNC right now to be described as in-fighting. There are serious conversations to be had about how to restructure the party and reposition it for electoral wins in '18 and '20. Those need to happen right now.

 

[B-Dubs]

Yeah, I guess so...

But again, a lot of the "Bernie-style" candidates didn't have what he had personally. He was likable and relatable and people truly believed he gave a shit and was overall a genuine good guy. A lot of the green tea party liberal leftist don't have that.

The answer isn't "run liberal utopian candidates" that is the wrong conclusion to draw. But I guess at the same time we should also say don't be afraid of one of those guys if people actually really really like them, because then the rest of the details might not matter.

Teachout was basically female Bernie in NY though. Also, I'm not convinced he's all that likable. His fans like him plenty, but not much outside of that. Even the GOP has to admit Bill and Obama and Biden are likable dudes.

 

[Debirudog]

is there really actual infighting or Diablos is just being himself...?

Whatever the case, I'm hopeful that democrats would sort this shit out.

 

[eBay Huckster]

10+?

no. we'll be back in less time than that. we had majorities everywhere two years after 2004 in large part because everyone worked their fucking asses off to rebuild.

the only question, i think, is whether we can regroup in time to salvage any safety nets.

 

[Pixieking]

There is no quick fix for this, Democratic politics is probably dead for the next 10+ years

I say this partially because I'm not particularly inspired by the infighting going on in the Democratic party right now. I'm hoping we bounce back from this like we did after 2004 and not 1984...

(Not aimed at you specifically, Diablos, but at people who say/think this)

Volunteer, pressure your local DNC office, donate to Democrat causes (PP, ACLU, etc). Make your voices heard. Print-out Kander's statement and leaflet areas with it. Go to your local church and pin it to the notice board!

Motivation is key.

As it stands, one of my friends in the States is Jewish, and his grand-parents fled Poland whilst other family members weren't so lucky. He faces having Steve Bannon be Chief of staff, and policies that Hitler would've approved of being normalised.

 

[sphagnum]

I think priority number one for us right now is winning two gubernatorial elections in 2017. We need to hold Virginia and flip New Jersey. Any Virginians or New Jerseyans need to start looking for quality candidates up and down their state right now.

I wouldn't worry about NJ considering Christie's approval ratings.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I'm sort of split here, because this whole blamegaming post-mortem is very fun, but I agree that ultimately Dems need to get their shit in order sooner than later. Part of the problem atm is that we immediately decided that we need a leadership shakeup so there's nobody to actually PUT the party in order. I'm hoping Obama takes care of that when he's out of office.

Also, Left Tea Party might or might not be good for votes. Dems care more about charisma than policy compared to Republicans, who believe strongly in policy, just terrible and incoherent and self-destructive policy. Running hardline on left issues doesn't necessarily get you anywhere. The sole exception is Democratic primary voters, who care very strongly about policy indeed. We could end up with a succession of Clintonesque candidates, just stripped of the moderate rhetoric, who end up disgusting the more sensitive members of the base who stay home.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

10+?

no. we'll be back in less time than that. we had majorities everywhere two years after 2004.

the only question is whether it's going to be in time to salvage any safety nets.

At least if we don't, we'll have great new policies to run on, like Social Security and Medicare.

 

[VendettaRed07]

The drug pricing measure also failed in California. I mean maybe there is some example of how the party needs to move much farther towards the left economically but it wasn't reflected in the results. If anything Kanders candidacy shows the opposite.

Kander was using some of the same arguments against his opponent that Sanders was using. His family was full of lobbyists, didn't care about the people of Missouri, etc. But his gun ad kick fucking ass and we need more stuff like that.

Also, again I'll say it. Obama and Hillary were wrong to go after guns so much because it always costs us

 

[B-Dubs]

I wouldn't worry about NJ considering Christie's approval ratings.

Honestly, he'll probably be convicted soon enough so I'm not too worried about NJ.

 

[JP_]

Teachout was basically female Bernie in NY though. Also, I'm not convinced he's all that likable. His fans like him plenty, but not much outside of that. Even the GOP has to admit Bill and Obama and Biden are likable dudes.

...Bernie has a higher favorability rating than all three of those in national polling.

 

[Diablos]

At least if we don't, we'll have great new policies to run on, like Social Security and Medicare.

And a 7-2 court to strike them down.

Starting to think this election is worse than Reagan

 

[B-Dubs]

...Bernie has a higher favorability rating than all three of those.

Because he has a much higher profile. Teachout was the one the far left in NY chose to try and primary Cuomo last cycle. It was absolutely a race she should have won and it slipped away from her at the end of it.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Kander was using some of the same arguments against his opponent that Sanders was using. His family was full of lobbyists, didn't care about the people of Missouri, etc. But his gun ad kick fucking ass and we need more stuff like that.

Also, again I'll say it. Obama and Hillary were wrong to go after guns so much because it always costs us

We're going about it wrong, IMO. Not enough people care about guns as a public safety concern. We need to frame it as a national security issue.

 

[JP_]

Because he has a much higher profile. Teachout was the one the far left in NY chose to try and primary Cuomo last cycle. It was absolutely a race she should have won and it slipped away from her at the end of it.

No, I mean all three as in Bill, Biden, Obama. Bernie has higher favorability than the three popular dems you mentioned.

edit:

Latest bill polls I could find: http://www.pollingreport.com/clinton1.htm

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I won't lie, I was pretty solidly in Stage 4 (depression) of the grief cycle for the last couple days. I felt dead inside. Just nothing. I'm not religious, and I wouldn't consider myself particularly jingoistic, but I've always had a basic faith in the decency of human beings. This election shook me to my core and I spent about 36 hours thinking that belief was misplaced. And when that's all you believe in, having it challenged is rough. Frankly, I was wishing I had a God I believed in that I could fall back on. But I think I'm finally on to acceptance. I'm not happy about the results of this election (and I'm not going to sit idly by and let my fellow citizens discriminate against minorities without confronting them) but I have to work through it for the sake of my family, my daughter, and the child on the way (planned, but not yet conceived). I'm not giving up on the basic decency of humans. We may be strongly divided, but I have faith we will recover, that we will recognize the humanity of our fellow man, that we will rise above the anger and hate that threaten to tear us apart. It's easy to think about relocating to a foreign country, about hiding from all of this until it blows over. It's hard to accept that liberal ideology, which seems like the obvious choice to me, is a minority way of thinking. But change is not easy. It is work, it is hard, it is a continuous struggle, and that line of thinking is necessary to continue to push ourselves to be better people. As Martin Luther King Jr. said, "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

 

[BanGy.nz]

At least if we don't, we'll have great new policies to run on, like Social Security and Medicare.

I haven't laughed this hard in days, Thank you.

 

[VendettaRed07]

We're going about it wrong, IMO. Not enough people care about guns as a public safety concern. We need to frame it as a national security issue.

Problem we have is that Democrats are basically arguing guns are a privilege when Republicans are saying its a right. Republicans have the winning argument here, as the fact that it is a right, is not disputable.

The "no fly no buy" proposal, was a blatant infringement on that.

 

[Bowdz]

Did Kander really run to right though other than guns? He talked about BLM, health care, unions, and his biggest policy accomplishment was his ethics reform. He was a bit hawkish I guess but I don't think that was a big part of his run.

He understood that all politics is local and campaigned in all regions of his state.

Being a good person that people see as honest, having a clear message, and actually making the effort to reach out, or at the very least listen, to all communities is essential. It is a common thread between Kander, Obama, Biden, and Bill Clinton.

 

[excelsiorlef]

They voted, but like Moore said it was a depressed turnout. As in, they voted, but they didn't phonebank and bring other people to the pools because they were so excited like they were in the primary. Maybe Teachout individual doesn't win, I dunno. But overall dems with a candidate people were much more enthused about would have been better for down ballot dems.

Teachout was Sanders big endorsement. She lost in fucking New York... that means something.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Problem we have is that Democrats are basically arguing guns are a privilege when Republicans are saying its a right. Republicans have the winning argument here, as the fact that it is a right, is not disputable.

The "no fly no buy" proposal, was a blatant infringement on that.

Republicans are regularly willing to sacrifice rights (mostly other peoples, but often their own) in the name of security. No fly no buy was a start, and I'm convinced with some retooling could be a winner.

 

[Pixieking]

In addition to the issues of successful foreign and domestic political espionage, the media broadly decided that she was the next president, and that vetting her was their primary responsibility. They are also very afraid of Being Out of Touch, and so they insisted on treating the Trump campaign as a normal part of US politics, instead of more appropriately as a hate movement.

To further the obvious media bias against Clinton:

chris smith Verified account
‏@chrissmithnymag

so kelly, a reporter, sat on news of trump getting advance debate questions until after election

No, tell me again what Donna Brazille did, Megyn?

 

[shinra-bansho]

Favourables for sitting or former national officeholders versus one-time primary runner up. Comparable.

The VP having a higher favourable rating than Obama should already tell you how meaningless this is.

 

[B-Dubs]

No, I mean all three as in Bill, Biden, Obama. Bernie has higher favorability than the three popular dems you mentioned.

edit:

That's because no one seriously attacked him. Bill, Biden, and Obama were targets of the GOP in a big way and had governed. As a result people had something to hate. Bernie on the other hand remains a blank slate to this very day since no one's ever seriously hit him on anything.

Favourables for sitting or former national officeholders versus one-time primary runner up. Comparable.

Also this. If you can't see that Bill, Obama, and Biden all have massive charisma and Bernie doesn't...

 

[JP_]

That's because no one seriously attacked him. Bill, Biden, and Obama were targets of the GOP in a big way and had governed. As a result people had something to hate. Bernie on the other hand remains a blank slate to this very day since no one's ever seriously hit him on anything.

Ha, this stuff again. Anyway, now you're moving the goal post. Your claim was only his fans liked him.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Did Kander really run to right though other than guns? He talked about BLM, health care, unions, and his biggest policy accomplishment was his ethics reform. He was a bit hawkish I guess but I don't think that was a big part of his run.

He ran to the right in that he proved that he was not completely and totally allergic to anything gun related and it added legitimacy that whatever background check bill or whatever he supported was not out of some conspiracy to take everyone's guns away. Sometimes, approach matters. Like, Obama and Hillary came off as though they completely hated everything about guns regardless of however reasonable or unreasonable whatever arguments that they were making were

 

[Valhelm]

Honestly guys keep some things to yourselves. Trump is the president elect now, and you know that Voat and other places patrol this site to mock us. I would fully expect them to report certain posts to the Secret Service.

Yeah, I'm very slightly worried that revolution jokes my friends and I have made via Facebook messenger could get us into trouble

 

[Dany]

Slightly off topic. But wasn't there a a bet between a moderator and someone in this thread?

 

[JP_]

...my hillary sticker for donating just arrived in the mail

 

[ericexpo]

Do you guys think a woman candidate even has a chance in the near future or did Clinton prove that women won't unite behind another woman and men see a woman with any power as unlikeable?
Clinton wasn't always unlikeable but as she got more dedication to politics she became hated.

 

[ampere]

Frankly, I was wishing I had a God I believed in that I could fall back on

I'm a non-believer and I wish this sometimes too. The world is so dark and my hope is crushed right now

 

[Bowdz]

I wouldn't worry about NJ considering Christie's approval ratings.

At this point, I'm going to worry about every single election. We have Republican governors in Massachusetts, Maryland, Maine, New Jersey, New Mexico, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Illinois because people didn't worry about them. They are all completely winnable and flipping all of them suddenly gives the majority of statehouse back to the Dems (and that is not including states we still should be competitive in like Florida, Ohio, and Nevada).

This election taught us that we need to tend to the flock. Always. Leave no constituency or region unattended.

 

[Frosty Droid]

Teachout was basically female Bernie in NY though. Also, I'm not convinced he's all that likable.

Bernie Sanders Is the Most Popular Politician in America

Teachout lost in a Republican district in an election where the Democratic base failed to show up because the politician at the top of the ticket was widely disliked.

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw9MG6LWgAEWis3.jpg[/IMG]

 

[Pixieking]

At least if we don't, we'll have great new policies to run on, like Social Security and Medicare.

This is actually a serious point.

Let's follow awful stuff through, shall we?

Roe v Wade is overturned. Democrats campaign on reversing that. Nationally, women won't accept not being in charge of their own bodies. That they've accepted restrictions up to now is because of piecemeal state legislature not affecting them, because they live in a different state.

Gay marriage overturned. No-one's going back to how it was before. Again, another national issue to campaign on.

LGBTQ rights will continue to be an issue.

Medicare/ACA. People will have seen both the good and the bad (healthcare and not). Strip away rights (or create a divide amongst friends and family between the haves and have nots due to the timing), and you have a cause to fight for.

Jobs and the conomy. Well, 4 years of Trump being in power and the WWC lives not improving will leave them wide-open to switching. I read something about how auto-driving trucks are going to make 3.5 million truckers unemployed during Trump's office. How the ever-living fuck is the GOP going to win them back?

Meanwhile, if Trump starts censoring the press, you can apply pressure to the anti-government wing that is all "Our constitution is sacred".

To say 2020 is lost, when there's going to be so much that appeals to people is ridiculous.

 

[pigeon]

You want another 4 years of him?

What I want is for you to stop working so hard to convince us that your friends are not white nationalists.

I understand that you don't want to judge your friends, but the fact is that they voted for you to be endangered in your own country. I am happy to judge them for you. But I think it would be better, and more true, for you to judge them yourself. Treat them with the respect to think that they understand what they voted for, rather than assuming that they're too stupid for the franchise.

pop·u·list
ˈpäpyələst/
noun
1.
a member or adherent of a political party seeking to represent the interests of ordinary people.

I know lots of ordinary people and they are not suddenly keen on fascism and sexual assault because they feel slighted.

It is genuinely disturbing to me that people think that thought process should be normalized and accepted.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Do you guys think a woman candidate even has a chance in the near future or did Clinton prove that women won't unite behind another woman and men see a woman with any power as unlikeable?
Clinton wasn't always unlikeable but as she got more dedication to politics she became hated.

I think so. Clinton is a unique case in a lot of ways, not least the 20 years of attacks she's saddled with.

 

[Debirudog]

Do you guys think a woman candidate even has a chance in the near future or did Clinton prove that women won't unite behind another woman and men see a woman with any power as unlikeable?
Clinton wasn't always unlikeable but as she got more dedication to politics she became hated.

I think she came at the wrong time in the 90s, and while the sexism is more subtle these days, all the cooked up scandals have something to do with it as well unfortunately. She's tough but not impervious.

 

[Totakeke]

Bernie Sanders Is the Most Popular Politician in America

Teachout lost in a Republican district in an election where the Democratic base failed to show up because the politician at the top of the ticket was widely disliked.

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw9MG6LWgAEWis3.jpg[/IMG]

Stop posting that chart. It's misleading. Read a few pages back.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Republicans are regularly willing to sacrifice rights (mostly other peoples, but often their own) in the name of security. No fly no buy was a start, and I'm convinced with some retooling could be a winner.

That doesn't really matter in the context of this argument. Of course they are hypocritical, but it's better to acknowledge where they actually are making a reasonable argument and when they are not.

It really needs far more than just a little retooling as well. Like it needs to address the fact that it completely ignores due process. There is possibly a way to make it work in so that it does, but that had to come first, not later.

And even then. What is the point. Seriously how many people on terrorists watch lists contribute to overall gun violence numbers. Is it really even worth the political battle?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Looking at Google Trends.

"White Genocide" and "Sieg Heil" are strongly associated with "Donald Trump" according to related topics. The n-word is not.... Trayvon Martin was associated with the n-word and I'm now I'm sad again....

 

[JP_]

Do you guys think a woman candidate even has a chance in the near future or did Clinton prove that women won't unite behind another woman and men see a woman with any power as unlikeable?
Clinton wasn't always unlikeable but as she got more dedication to politics she became hated.

Not sure we know the answer to that yet.

Optimistically, I hope it's just Clinton herself that was unpopular. 2016's bright spots included

First latina senator

First Somali-American lawmaker (house seat)

First Indian-American senator, also second African-American female senator

First Thai-American senator

First Indian-American congresswoman

First African-American and first female congresswoman from Delaware

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/highest-glass-ceiling-remains-women/

 

[Pixieking]

Do you guys think a woman candidate even has a chance in the near future or did Clinton prove that women won't unite behind another woman and men see a woman with any power as unlikeable?
Clinton wasn't always unlikeable but as she got more dedication to politics she became hated.

I don't know... There was an article about the hidden Hillary voter that was like "I spoke to the husband, and he's voting Trump, I spoke to the wife privately, she's voting Hillary." I seriously wonder how many guys just pressured their wives and girlfriend's to vote Trump. If the exit polls are to be believed, either the saying that women hate other women more than men is true, or there's a massively uneducated base that just didn't know that Trump raped his first wife, and figured "both sides are just as bad".

But perhaps it's just lack of targeted messaging again. You can't watch the campaign ad with the girl asking about bullying and come out thinking Hillary is unlikeable. I refuse to believe mothers, wives, sisters, daughters are so sociopathic as to ignore scenes like that.

 

[Suikoguy]

I'm trying to compare the Teachout House race votes versus Clinton's votes.

House district lines do not lineup with county lines making this really difficult.

I've compiled this table of counties they have in common, i'll post it here so it's not totally wasted time .

Some of those really fucked up gerrymandered districts would make this impossible, unless you do this for a living I suppose...

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Trump isn't a related topic when you search "Big League" but he is the only topic when you search "Bigly" lol.

Everyone thinks he says bigly.

 

[sazzy]

damn anderson cooper looks 10 years older