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PoliGAF 2016 |OT2| we love the poorly educated

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Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
In your hammer example, though, if a hammer manufacturer is negligent, we can sue them. PLCAA makes it a lot harder to try and get that type of judgement.

Thanks for summarizing that. I even learned something!

Do you think we'll see Obama announce his Supreme Court nominee tomorrow? He's almost had a month now.

I might have been in the cards, but I suspect it won't be for a couple more weeks. After Florida votes on March 15th. That's going to basically finalize both primaries.
 
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Jamelle Bouie ‏@jbouie 2h2 hours ago
Obama was that rare figure who could present himself as both.

.
 
That is shitty, I took things a different way. Politics makes everything complicated.

Plus, it ties into the fact that Bernie voted against the Brady Bill five times. He voted to allow guns on Amtrak. In a previous debate, he said he would revisit his support for PLCAA, but now he flipped back to supporting it.

He is not consistent on guns His position is shitty. Add to that the fact that this is the only issue we're supposed to understand that he voted for bills because there were good parts...but anyone else who voted for a bill for the good parts (that he didn't like) is somehow corrupt or not ideologically pure.
 

royalan

Member
Megyn Kelly.

There's a difference here: he wouldn't insult Megyn Kelly to her face. Same with Fiorina.

It'll be interesting to see if Trump will be able to contain himself when Hillary's right on stage with him and hurling attacks his way. He won't be able to address substantively, because he has no substance, but even he probably knows he won't be able to throw character attacks at her the same way he does men.

My guess based on what he's already hinted at? Every jab at him he's going to pivot to an attack on Bill. We'll see how it works.
 

hawk2025

Member
There's a difference here: he wouldn't insult Megyn Kelly to her face. Same with Fiorina.

It'll be interesting to see if Trump will be able to contain himself when Hillary's right on stage with him and hurling attacks his way. He won't be able to address substantively, because he has no substance, but even he probably knows he won't be able to throw character attacks at her the same way he does men.

My guess based on what he's already hinted at? Every jab at him he's going to pivot to an attack on Bill. We'll see how it works.

I largely agree, but here's my bet:

At some point, Trump will make a comment tantamount to "but who will REALLY run the White House?" and it will come out as the most sexist shit ever.


Bank on it. I think pivoting to Bill will backfire.
 

danm999

Member
I just don't think Trump can help himself.

You see these speeches he's giving recently, where he's using a lower volume and its obviously some 'I pivoted to the centre' stuff.

Then he gets asked some questions by reporters and as soon as they start challenging him he starts smirking and talking over them and telling them to sit down and shut up.

He can't help it, it's just his nature. He will do it again in the heat of the moment.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Quite the awesome statement by Jbouie there, I formatted it into text with proper citation:

@jbouie said:
There is more to a political party than voters. There are officials, activists, donors, party leaders of various stripes, organizers, etc. These are the folks who recruit candidates, organize campaigns, develop field operations, maintain the party in off-years, etc. The POTUS is also a party leader, and exists in a relationship with these folks. What he/she says and does affects the field for them. This even goes for the people running for president. But not all candidates understand their roles as such.

HRC is explicitly running as the leader of the Democratic *coalition*, which includes liberals as much as red state Democrats. Sanders is running as an ideological liberal, who is less concerned with party building than in changing the terms of the party coalition. And so, when you're hear HRC's answers on something like fracking, you should be asking yourself "who in Dem coalition wants to hear this?" The answer is: "Democrats in conservative places who don't want to make this salient in their campaigns."

It's a balancing act, between not alienating those coalition members, but also not alienating enviros, another important member. Sanders doesn't have the same kind of balancing act. He wants to make ideological liberals the fulcrum of the Democratic Party coalition. Which frees him to be more expansive as a candidate. But because the Democratic Party isn't purely transactional or purely ideological, it makes them both uncomfortable fits. Hillary is too transactional and too beholden to corporate-wing of the Democratic Party. Sanders' is probably a bit too ideological. It's noteworthy that HRC is strongest among most stalwart Democratic voters, Sanders among most ideological Democratic voters.

Anyway, in a real sense HRC and Sanders are running for two completely different jobs.
HRC is running as leader of a loose coalition of interests, Sanders is running as a champion of liberal interests. Obama was that rare figure who could present himself as both.

https://twitter.com/jbouie
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Good and interesting post, I think it sums up a lot of people's feelings and who they support comes down to which role they think is more important.

It really is, thanks for sharing it cartoon_soldier.
 
I was reading somewhere that the Rwandan genocide turned Hillary into a neocon because she couldn't stand letting genocide happen while she did nothing again... Hmm, not sure what the degree of humanitarian intervention should be.
 

Makai

Member
My number one policy in terms of long-term goals is the establishment of a citizen's wage -- a living wage paid directly to every person in America by the government. People would be free to work normally and earn more money, although there would probably be a pretty significant tax on income outside of the citizen's wage.

I don't expect significant price issues as a result, but it's not implausible that you would want price controls on food and shelter, or to pay at least some of that wage in kind rather than cash.

My expectation is that this would do a lot of the work in terms of correcting the imbalance in the free market towards rentiers. Companies who currently pay minimum wage would very likely have to change their jobs and strategies or simply not be able to employ people to do those jobs. People who wanted to pursue their own businesses or ambitions would be free to chase their dreams without worrying about starving to death. This would no doubt increase our rate of technological progress, creating more wealth, as well as developing a healthy American culture.

Of course this would also resolve our fundamental national failure to fulfill our moral responsibility to feed and clothe every American. (Every person really but that's kind of a longer-term problem.)

I'd also like to build a stronger universal healthcare system on top of the existing system. A public option would be a good start.
I'd be happy with the guarunteed income alone. Would do a ton, I think.
 
Smart. Cruz doesn't need to come in second there. The only expectation for Florida is that Rubio should win his home state; Cruz doesn't matter narrative wise. If he can help Trump win the state it might end Rubio's campaign, which benefits Cruz (who believes he can beat Trump 1v1).

Seems like it would take quite a comeback for Rubio to win there. And even if Jeb endorses it probably won't matter.
 

stupei

Member
To be honest I don't understand the outrage on bernie's position on immunity, you can use that same logic on alcohol distributors and anyone who makes anything that could be used as a weapon.

Also AR-15's aren't automatic to the best of my knowledge.

The Sandy Hook victim's families are arguing that because it's modeled after a military weapon that within the US military requires extensive training and care but is being marketed toward civilians with no such requirements, that demonstrates knowing negligent entrustment, which is the one loophole against immunity.

From here:

The lawsuit argues that the way in which the company sells and markets a military-style weapon to the civilian market is a form of negligent entrustment.

"Remington took a weapon that was made to the specs of the U.S. military for the purpose of killing enemy soldiers in combat -- and that weapon in the military is cared for with tremendous amount of diligence, in terms of training, storage, who gets the weapon, and who can use it," Koskoff, the attorney for the families, said. "They took that same weapon and started peddling it to the civilian market for the purposes of making a lot of money."
 

royalan

Member
I largely agree, but here's my bet:

At some point, Trump will make a comment tantamount to "but who will REALLY run the White House?" and it will come out as the most sexist shit ever.


Bank on it. I think pivoting to Bill will backfire.

Oh, I'm completely with you. I'm just speculating on what Trump is going to TRY to do. lol

Frankly, Trump is a little, little man. I do not believe for a second that he's going to be able to handle a woman as powerful as Hillary flinging razor-sharp criticisms at him, from the same stage, positioned as his adversary.

The meltdown will be beautiful.

EDIT: Snowman, I could have lived without that.
 
One of the things I'm currently upset with the Clinton camp about is how they're handling the Speech Transcript issue. I still believe it's a non story for most voters, but she needs a better answer than she's giving.

If it were me, I'd simply say "You want to know what is in the speeches I gave to Wall Street, Senator? It's the same as what I gave to "Insert the plethora of non-profits and liberal organizations she gave speeches to here." And do you want to know what I talked about? I talked about what it was like to transition from First Lady to Senator to Secretary of State. I talked about what I believe America's role on the world stage should be. I spoke about the need to find common sense solutions to our nation's problems. These groups asked me to speak because they valued my experience. They had no impact on what I've stood for my entire public life."

So, she manages to get subtle digs in saying people value her opinion BUT, most importantly, Bernie's only come back is "Prove it." At which point, he's no longer saying she's dishonest, he's openly calling her that. Then, she can turn it back on him by asking if he's impugning her integrity.

It won't make him stop. It won't make the issue go away, but it bates him into making it a personal rather than substantive attack.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
One of the things I'm currently upset with the Clinton camp about is how they're handling the Speech Transcript issue. I still believe it's a non story for most voters, but she needs a better answer than she's giving.

If it were me, I'd simply say "You want to know what is in the speeches I gave to Wall Street, Senator? It's the same as what I gave to "Insert the plethora of non-profits and liberal organizations she gave speeches to here." And do you want to know what I talked about? I talked about what it was like to transition from First Lady to Senator to Secretary of State. I talked about what I believe America's role on the world stage should be. I spoke about the need to find common sense solutions to our nation's problems. These groups asked me to speak because they valued my experience. They had no impact on what I've stood for my entire public life."

So, she manages to get subtle digs in saying people value her opinion BUT, most importantly, Bernie's only come back is "Prove it." At which point, he's no longer saying she's dishonest, he's openly calling her that. Then, she can turn it back on him by asking if he's impugning her integrity.

It won't make him stop. It won't make the issue go away, but it bates him into making it a personal rather than substantive attack.

I think that's why she doesn't do that. Her camp likely doesn't want the race to escalate unless it has to, if they do that they escalate the race and it'll just become nastier. They've got no reason to do such a thing until they face Trump in the general. Remember, they need to handle Bernie with kid gloves. They can't go all out on him like they did against Obama 8 years ago.
 
One of the things I'm currently upset with the Clinton camp about is how they're handling the Speech Transcript issue. I still believe it's a non story for most voters, but she needs a better answer than she's giving.

If it were me, I'd simply say "You want to know what is in the speeches I gave to Wall Street, Senator? It's the same as what I gave to "Insert the plethora of non-profits and liberal organizations she gave speeches to here." And do you want to know what I talked about? I talked about what it was like to transition from First Lady to Senator to Secretary of State. I talked about what I believe America's role on the world stage should be. I spoke about the need to find common sense solutions to our nation's problems. These groups asked me to speak because they valued my experience. They had no impact on what I've stood for my entire public life."

So, she manages to get subtle digs in saying people value her opinion BUT, most importantly, Bernie's only come back is "Prove it." At which point, he's no longer saying she's dishonest, he's openly calling her that. Then, she can turn it back on him by asking if he's impugning her integrity.

It won't make him stop. It won't make the issue go away, but it bates him into making it a personal rather than substantive attack.

It's a tough thing to handle not sure there is a good answer. She doesn't want to release them, she obviously said some nice things about wall Street in them.

They need to figure something out other than I will do it if everybody else does. Stop it from becoming like Romney's tax returns.
 

pigeon

Banned
One of the things I'm currently upset with the Clinton camp about is how they're handling the Speech Transcript issue. I still believe it's a non story for most voters, but she needs a better answer than she's giving.

If it were me, I'd simply say "You want to know what is in the speeches I gave to Wall Street, Senator? It's the same as what I gave to "Insert the plethora of non-profits and liberal organizations she gave speeches to here." And do you want to know what I talked about? I talked about what it was like to transition from First Lady to Senator to Secretary of State. I talked about what I believe America's role on the world stage should be. I spoke about the need to find common sense solutions to our nation's problems. These groups asked me to speak because they valued my experience. They had no impact on what I've stood for my entire public life."

So, she manages to get subtle digs in saying people value her opinion BUT, most importantly, Bernie's only come back is "Prove it." At which point, he's no longer saying she's dishonest, he's openly calling her that. Then, she can turn it back on him by asking if he's impugning her integrity.

It won't make him stop. It won't make the issue go away, but it bates him into making it a personal rather than substantive attack.

I mean, I feel like she should just release the speeches. Whatever's in them can't possibly be as bad as the tedium of not releasing them.

Unless she explains why she deleted her classified Benghazi emails, I guess.
 

royalan

Member
I think that's why she doesn't do that. Her camp likely doesn't want the race to escalate unless it has to, if they do that they escalate the race and it'll just become nastier. They've got no reason to do such a thing until they face Trump in the general. Remember, they need to handle Bernie with kid gloves. They can't go all out on him like they did against Obama 8 years ago.

I think something along these lines is probably the answer. I think she'll release the speeches eventually, but not until Benie is good and put away.
 
I think that's why she doesn't do that. Her camp likely doesn't want the race to escalate unless it has to, if they do that they escalate the race and it'll just become nastier. They've got no reason to do such a thing until they face Trump in the general. Remember, they need to handle Bernie with kid gloves. They can't go all out on him like they did against Obama 8 years ago.

I agree she doesn't want to escalate the issue if she can help it. Clearly he's going to keep using it, though. I guess my argument is if he's going to smear her, make him get dirty for doing it. Bernie's been getting a pass on "I never go negative" by hiding behind verbage and hinting at things.

He is being treated with kid gloves. If she actually wanted to hit him, I think he would legitimately fly off the handle and go batshit crazy. When he was challenged on the Auto Bailout he completely started screaming and getting angry. I feel like if she coudl get him to just lose it one time it would be good for her campaign. Not that he has a real shot at this point, just in general.

It's a tough thing to handle not sure there is a good answer. She doesn't want to release them, she obviously said some nice things about wall Street in them.

They need to figure something out other than I will do it if everybody else does. Stop it from becoming like Romney's tax returns.

I'm not sure she said anything nice, exactly. It's probably something that Bernie's people could take out of context and use against her. You don't give your enemy rope if you can help it.

I mean, I feel like she should just release the speeches. Whatever's in them can't possibly be as bad as the tedium of not releasing them.

Unless she explains why she deleted her classified Benghazi emails, I guess.

You're winning, you don't give anyone ammo, even if his path is unlikely.
 

Mr.Mike

Member
She probably said something pro-trade or pro-market that BernieBros would go wild over, even though it's an entirely reasonable position.
 
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