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PoliGAF 2016 |OT2| we love the poorly educated

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K

Kyosaiga

Banned
Kangi said:
Oh, hey. It seems Bernie clarified his "ghetto" comment!

zGLDBkv.png


Much better.
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But that MLK march, tho
 
C

CCS

Banned
More to the point, that doesn't really address the "White people don't know what it's like to be poor" comment either.
 
P

Paskil

Member
If that is the actual, not taken out of context, directly from Bernie response in that tweet, that is so much more ridiculously worse than the original statement. I watched the debate and that moment didn't particularly jump out at me (probably because I'm white/privileged).
 
Q

QuiteWhittle

Member
PBY said:
So you just feel this about white people period then.
Click to expand...

Do I think most whites don't care about blacks? Oh yes I do.

But my original post is a bit more caustic that I intended. To borrow someone else's words on here, I feel like the issues facing blacks is more of an academic exercise to most white liberals. Something unfortunate, something to be debated and solved, but something that would be put on the back burner if not for the large and necessary support from black voters for liberal causes. I apologize if I offended.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Cerium said:
I literally did an IRL spittake.

That's what he comes up with after huddling with his highly paid advisers?
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Weaver and Devine are utter and inescapable morons. They literally could not be dumber if they tried. They are a black hole of stupidity, where nothing of intelligence can survive. If brains were currency those two would be poorer than dirt.

Paskil said:
If that is the actual, not taken out of context, directly from Bernie response in that tweet, that is so much more ridiculously worse than the original statement. I watched the debate and that moment didn't particularly jump out at me (probably because I'm white/privileged).
Click to expand...

According to the article I originally saw it in, that's what he said.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
brainchild said:
The fact that she's using that as the basis for the claim that he opposed the auto bailout. Her focus right now is saying that he opposed the auto bailout, and that's what people are going to pay attention to.

Asking Michanganders (or any general population) to draw the connection between how he voted on a separate bailout and how that proves that he opposed the auto bailout is asking too much of them.
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Okay, I reviewed the transcript and I mostly agree. Hillary says at one point that Sanders was "against the auto bailout." I agree that that seems to be false. She later expands on this to explain that she's critiquing his specific vote in 2009 and suggests that it demonstrates the black and white nature of Sanders's approach to politics. I think that this latter critique is accurate. But I think that reducing it to "against the auto bailout" is somewhat dishonest.
 
P

PBY

Banned
QuiteWhittle said:
Do I think most whites don't care about blacks? Oh yes I do.

But my original post is a bit more caustic that I intended. To borrow someone else's words on here, I feel like the issues facing blacks is more of an academic exercise to most white liberals. Something unfortunate, something to be debated and solved, but something that would be put on the back burner if not for the large and necessary support from black voters for liberal causes. I apologize if I offended.
Click to expand...

No need to apologize, I'm not offended, I just think you're wrong. That said, I also think a ton of people think the way you do, and who am I to say they're wrong - they've lived and seen shit that I can't understand.
 
K

Kyosaiga

Banned
CCS said:
More to the point, that doesn't really address the "White people don't know what it's like to be poor" comment either.
Click to expand...

He should've said

"I mispoken, I meant to say that white people don't know what it's like to be harassed on the sole basis of their skin color, along with all of the socioeconomic factors that goes along with implicit bias in employment, health care, housing, and the criminal justice system. I chose my words poorly last night, and to those whom I may have offended I sincerely apologize"
 
C

CCS

Banned
Kyosaiga said:
He should've said

"I mispoken, I meant to say that white people don't know what it's like to be harassed on the sole basis of their skin color, along with all of the socioeconomic factors that goes along with implicit bias in employment, health care, housing, and the criminal justice system. I chose my words poorly last night, and to those whom I may have offended I sincerely apologize"
Click to expand...

That would have been good. Sadly, however, his campaign is run by two of the biggest morons in the history of politics.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Kyosaiga said:
He should've said

"I mispoken, I meant to say that white people don't know what it's like to be harassed on the sole basis of their skin color, along with all of the socioeconomic factors that goes along with implicit bias in employment, health care, housing, and the criminal justice system. I chose my words poorly last night, and to those whom I may have offended I sincerely apologize"
Click to expand...

That would have required admitting he was wrong about something. I'm not sure how that would play out among his campaign and staff.
 
Tarkus

Tarkus

Member
Kyosaiga said:
He should've said

"I mispoken , I meant to say that white people don't know what it's like to be harassed on the sole basis of their skin color, along with all of the socioeconomic factors that goes along with implicit bias in employment, health care, housing, and the criminal justice system. I chose my words poorly last night, and to those whom I may have offended I sincerely apologize"
Click to expand...
lol
 
P

pigeon

Banned
QuiteWhittle said:
Do I think most whites don't care about blacks? Oh yes I do.

But my original post is a bit more caustic that I intended. To borrow someone else's words on here, I feel like the issues facing blacks is more of an academic exercise to most white liberals. Something unfortunate, something to be debated and solved, but something that would be put on the back burner if not for the large and necessary support from black voters for liberal causes. I apologize if I offended.
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty clear that this is true for some white liberals, and even that it has clearly been true for most white liberals in the past.

I may be overly optimistic in believing that this is less true today. I think that the subject has evolved to a great degree -- like, the discussions about police brutality and law enforcement bias are in the liberal mainstream now, when I remember them being radical ideas even just five years ago. So I think there has been movement. But, in fairness, a certain amount of that has just been people of color moving into the Democratic coalition and white people moving out.
 
O

Overlee

Member
Kangi said:
"Look how far we've come! We went from not being in the race to losing the race! Political revolution!"
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You realize revolution isn't about an angry mob overthrowing government right? That's an outburst or bi-product of revolution. Real revolution is challenging conventional thought and systems and wanting to replace them with something more just and human. It doesn't happen overnight. But it has been happening for decades:

Ronald Inglehart argues that economic development, cultural change, and political change go together in coherent and even, to some extent, predictable patterns. This is a controversial claim. It implies that some trajectories of socioeconomic change are more likely than others--and consequently that certain changes are foreseeable. Once a society has embarked on industrialization, for example, a whole syndrome of related changes, from mass mobilization to diminishing differences in gender roles, is likely to appear. These changes in worldviews seem to reflect changes in the economic and political environment, but they take place with a generational time lag and have considerable autonomy and momentum of their own. But industrialization is not the end of history. Advanced industrial society leads to a basic shift in values, de-emphasizing the instrumental rationality that characterized industrial society. Postmodern values then bring new societal changes, including democratic political institutions and the decline of state socialist regimes. To demonstrate the powerful links between belief systems and political and socioeconomic variables, this book draws on a unique database, the World Values Surveys. This database covers a broader range than ever before available for looking at the impact of mass publics on political and social life. It provides information from societies representing 70 percent of the world's population--from societies with per capita incomes as low as $300 per year to those with per capita incomes one hundred times greater and from long-established democracies with market economies to authoritarian states.
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The idea we need some charismatic young leader to inspire us to be better to one another and the planet is Hollywood nonsense. We need to change ourselves. To go from an individualistic "thing" oriented society to one that sees ourselves as a link in the evolution of man.

Albert Einstein put it best:

“A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.”
Click to expand...

To think this "revolution" is a failure when it is in fact opening up the dialog for us to become a better society (health care, education, environmental rights) down the road is completely disingenuous and harmful to the human species at large.


TLDR: The revolution will not be televised
 
D

Drek

Member
QuiteWhittle said:
I wish Missouri and North Carolina had more polling. I think Sanders could pull out a win in the former and over-perform in the latter.
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Most Dems in Missouri are on the I-70 beltway, St. Louis, Columbia/Jeff City/Kansas City. By far the biggest two are St. Louis and Kansas City, where the Dem populations are predominantly AA. To make matters worse for Sanders Lacy Clay (congressman for the district that encompasses St. Louis City, AA man who has always turned out the AA vote) is being primaried by Maria Chapelle Nadal (an AA woman currently serving as a state senator from the North St. Louis area). While their primary isn't until August 2nd they've been spending abnormal amounts of money already in voter registration and turnout efforts.

In short, I wouldn't be surprised if Clinton not only wins Missouri, but wins it by a healthy margin. Sanders' economy focused solution to all problems is not going to help him in the state that one could argue is most chafing under the yolk of racial inequality.

Overlee said:
You realize revolution isn't about an angry mob overthrowing government right? That's an outburst or bi-product of revolution. Real revolution is challenging conventional thought and systems and wanting to replace them with something more just and human. It doesn't happen overnight. But it has been happening for decades
Click to expand...

Sure, but the "revolution" narrative is something Sanders has attached himself while doing effectively nothing to add to the political sea change he claims to be riding.

It isn't a revolution without effecting meaningful change and you can't do that with just a POTUS candidate who has zero down-ticket. State and local races are still pretty open with later primary dates. Why hasn't Sanders shifted gears from his long-shot POTUS campaign and instead started using the stage and funding he's acquired to make a more legitimate shift in the down-ballot races?

If it's about the revolution that is the place it needs to start. A left response to the Tea Party that takes over state houses, shows how districting should be done and starts expanding social services beyond the federal minimum, ideally starting with state run single payer healthcare that when successful would be adopted by more and more states until it is forced into becoming a nationwide standard.

There are avenues of attack open for the revolution you're suggesting. Bernie Sanders and his POTUS campaign isn't doing work for any of them.
 
T

thcsquad

Member
Ekai said:
These mental gymnastics in an attempt to state he blatantly was against the auto-industry when the exact opposite is true and he did support the auto-industry though.
If you're just going to repeat her blatant lies and ignore the facts when they're literally posted right here on this page then there's no discussion to be had here.
Click to expand...

If it was so simple, Bernie would have said this at the debate. He had plenty of chances to say "hey i didn't know this money was going to the auto industry", and he didn't. So either:

1. The truth is more murky (he truly found opposition to Wall Street to be more important than helping Detroit). If so, sure, Hillary was spinning, but no worse than what he did at that debate: blaming NAFTA for white flight going on since the 50s is a lie. Even when it comes to Flint auto jobs, Roger and Me was about GM exporting jobs wholesale from Flint to Mexico and it's from 1989.

2. He failed to point out the obvious, is terrible at debating, and would get murdered on-stage in the general election debates.
 
K

Kangi

Member
Overlee said:
To think this "revolution" is a failure when it is in fact opening up the dialog for us to become a better society (health care, education, environmental rights) down the road is completely disingenuous and harmful to the human species at large.
Click to expand...

Making fun of the "political revolution!" buzzwords is harmful to the human species at large?

Think I got you beat, CCS.
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
QuiteWhittle said:
I wish Missouri and North Carolina had more polling. I think Sanders could pull out a win in the former and over-perform in the latter.
Click to expand...

I live in Missouri and can tell you with confidence that Clinton is going to win here.

Not that I've seen much presence of either campaign, but I know my state's demographics and they heavily favor her. She's got some healthy endorsements here, too.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
My new favorite thing is people who break up Bernie and Hillary's delegates along the lines of "Confederate States" and "Union States." I mean....really? This is bordering on Tina Fey's "God Bless certain parts of America" thing.
 
K

Kyosaiga

Banned
But, real talk, though. Bernie seriously pissed me off last night. He clearly has no understanding of how banks, international finance, fiscal policy, export credit financing, TARP, or anything related to "Wall Street" ACTUALLY works. He stood on national TV and went against Boeing. BOEING FOR FUCKS SAKE! Like...what?! How could you NOT see how utterly disastrous that's going to play in Washington State and specifically the Seattle area?

He was literally a breath of way from saying "Anyone who works in the financial industry is evil and must be destroyed."

Not to mention the fact that a lot of his rhetoric is shitting on the DNC and the Democratic party....the very same people who will be absolutely VITAL to have any hope in hell for his progressive policies to pass. And not only that you still haven't raised money for them at all?!
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Kyosaiga said:
But, real talk, though. Bernie seriously pissed me off last night. He clearly has no understanding of how banks, international finance, fiscal policy, export credit financing, TARP, or anything related to "Wall Street" ACTUALLY works. He stood on national TV and went against Boeing. BOEING FOR FUCKS SAKE! Like...what?! How could you NOT see how utterly disastrous that's going to play in Washington State and specifically the Seattle area?

He was literally a breath of way from saying "Anyone who works in the financial industry is evil and must be destroyed."

Not to mention the fact that a lot of his rhetoric is shitting on the DNC and the Democratic party....the very same people who will be absolutely VITAL to have any hope in hell for his progressive policies to pass. And not only that you still haven't raised money for them at all?!
Click to expand...

I didn't even think about him attacking Boeing when he still has to win Washington state. I wonder if that will move the polls at all. Seattle is still very liberal but Boeing is a pretty big deal there. Guess we'll see!
 
O

Overlee

Member
Kangi said:
Making fun of the "political revolution!" buzzwords is harmful to the human species at large?

Think I got you beat, CCS.
Click to expand...

Yes because you're completely writing off the growing number of voters (especially young ones) that are questioning the deep seated roots and problems that stem from a capitalistic society. Trying to paint this as a win/lose scenario just shows how narrow minded your thinking is. We should be opening up new avenues for debate, thought and ideas on how we can grow not trying to squash it by framing it like a football game.
 
P

PopcornMegaphone

Banned
adam387 said:
My new favorite thing is people who break up Bernie and Hillary's delegates along the lines of "Confederate States" and "Union States." I mean....really? This is bordering on Tina Fey's "God Bless certain parts of America" thing.
Click to expand...

I know a Bernie fan on another message board. Hes a smart guy but he's in pretty hard denial right now. He said if Bernie only adds another 100 delegates to his deficit after the 15th Sanders still has a chance. I asked him in that case to outline Bernie's path to the nomination and he changed the subject.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Kyosaiga said:
But, real talk, though. Bernie seriously pissed me off last night. He clearly has no understanding of how banks, international finance, fiscal policy, export credit financing, TARP, or anything related to "Wall Street" ACTUALLY works. He stood on national TV and went against Boeing. BOEING FOR FUCKS SAKE! Like...what?! How could you NOT see how utterly disastrous that's going to play in Washington State and specifically the Seattle area?

He was literally a breath of way from saying "Anyone who works in the financial industry is evil and must be destroyed."

Not to mention the fact that a lot of his rhetoric is shitting on the DNC and the Democratic party....the very same people who will be absolutely VITAL to have any hope in hell for his progressive policies to pass. And not only that you still haven't raised money for them at all?!
Click to expand...

To be honest I don't see how people could possibly be surprised that most of the people running the party don't want a guy that won't raise money for the downticket races
 
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