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PoliGAF 2016 |OT2| we love the poorly educated

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Gotchaye

Member
I really can't picture how someone who considers themself a moderate Republican could be voting Trump. Unless it's under the delusion that he'll do a heel-face turn or something.

I think it depends what you mean by "moderate". But Trump isn't big on the usual sorts of things that self-consciously define conservatism. I've known people to self-describe as very conservative because they're really socially conservative and super-opposed to abortion, etc. I've known people who would self-identify that way because they're basically libertarians who want to bomb other countries. But I'd guess that by the numbers "very conservative"s are very socially conservative.

One thing to keep in mind is that in general moderates are not as politically aware as other voters. They often describe this way because they just don't have a great handle on what they themselves stand for or what the parties stand for. They don't see themselves as having an ideology. But they're white. They're ready to believe that ISIS is a huge problem, that illegal immigration is a huge problem, and they're suspicious of politicians who are going out of their way to appeal to black people.

So over Christmas my mom, who is not a very political person but who generally votes for Democrats, is pro-choice, pro- gay marriage, etc., starts talking about how Trump is saying what everybody's thinking. Basically for her this was about being worried about ISIS - her concept of how threatening terrorism is relative to things like car accidents is shaped by media coverage. More generally there's just this vague sense that really things should be better than they are and nobody's doing anything about it, so Trump's winning/dealmaker shtick is appealing, and it helps that he's blaming someone new insofar as it's not just this hard-to-adjudicate "It's the Republicans' fault!" "No it's the Democrats' fault!"
 
Chris Matthews actually raised a good point on Gitmo that I'm not sure anyone can answer, not just Bernie. Basically, we want to close Gitmo and bring the prisoners here. Some people are worried about their local prisons holding some of the most dangerous people in the world, and that's completely legitimate, but we can get through that.

However, Chris raised the point that all it would take is the ACLU or some other advocacy group to say these men are on American soil, they deserve a fair trial. However, a lot of the detainees in Gitmo don't have any concrete evidence against them, so you can't really prosecute them. Thus, if you bring them onto American soil and someone demands a trial, they basically would have to be freed. And then you would have suspected terrorists running free in America.That's a really tough question to solve. Gitmo should absolutely be closed, make no mistake. It's a disgrace that it's still open. but what do we do with the prisoners after that?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here

That sounds like the flimsiest pretext ever for keeping Gitmo open. "Oh, we would be forced to give people a trial and release them if we can't bring forward any evidence!" Ummmm... duh? That's the entire point of our justice system. "Keep them imprisoned forever because we have zero evidence to try them" is not just illogical, it's immoral and unAmerican. But since when would we have to release them back into America? We try them, if they are found not guilty, you send them back to their home country. They aren't American citizens, they don't get automatic citizenship just because we try them on American soil.
 

danm999

Member
Brits elected David Cameron, Canadians had Harper in for over a decade and Australians put in Tony Abbott.

Nobodies perfect.
 

Ekai

Member
Think there would be enough overlap between Sanders and Trump voters to give Clinton or Rubio a win.

Are you serious right now? Anyone who supports Bernie on "anti-establishment" alone and nothing else doesn't actually support the man's positions. The two are diametrically opposed. And I've frankly only seen one person in this whole forum and literally nowhere else argue this position. But yes, just continue to demonize Bernie supporters.
 

Gotchaye

Member
Chris Matthews actually raised a good point on Gitmo that I'm not sure anyone can answer, not just Bernie. Basically, we want to close Gitmo and bring the prisoners here. Some people are worried about their local prisons holding some of the most dangerous people in the world, and that's completely legitimate, but we can get through that.

However, Chris raised the point that all it would take is the ACLU or some other advocacy group to say these men are on American soil, they deserve a fair trial. However, a lot of the detainees in Gitmo don't have any concrete evidence against them, so you can't really prosecute them. Thus, if you bring them onto American soil and someone demands a trial, they basically would have to be freed. And then you would have suspected terrorists running free in America.That's a really tough question to solve. Gitmo should absolutely be closed, make no mistake. It's a disgrace that it's still open. but what do we do with the prisoners after that?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here

I don't think the "running free in America" thing is a concern unless any of them are US citizens (I don't think any are). Although, like, do we really want to say that it's a bad thing that a president can't just decide to lock someone up forever without evidence? Surely the worst case scenario here is that they get deported and can go back to terroristing somewhere else.
 

fantomena

Member
Are you serious right now? Anyone who supports Bernie on "anti-establishment" alone and nothing else doesn't actually support the man's positions. The two are diametrically opposed. And I've frankly only seen one person in this whole forum and literally nowhere else argue this position. But yes, just continue to demonize Bernie supporters.

Agreed, in the political spectrum, Hillary is closer to Trump than Bernie.
 

CDX

Member
Lol, just read that some repubs wants a monarchy in USA.

And here I am working to get rid of the monarchy in my country.

I still hope for a day when a socialdemocrat becomes president in USA. But right now, USA is too dumb to elect anyone who isn't super pro religion and very lefty.

USA is a dumb country full of dumb people. Bush got elected twice, Romney did actually somewhat good and millions believe that angels are real, jesus will come back to earth, evolution is a lie etc.


Hey now, let's not throw the entire population of the US under the bus.

If I knew what country you are from, I'm sure I could find some questionable things about your own country's political system and politicians to criticize too. But that still wouldn't mean everyone in your country is dumb.
 

Makai

Member
Are you serious right now? Anyone who supports Bernie on "anti-establishment" alone and nothing else doesn't actually support the man's positions. The two are diametrically opposed. And I've frankly only seen one person in this whole forum and literally nowhere else argue this position. But yes, just continue to demonize Bernie supporters.
It makes sense if you consider alternative political spectrums. Bernie is closer to Trump than Hillary on the authoritarian spectrum.
 

fantomena

Member
Hey now, let's not throw the entire population of the US under the bus.

If I knew what country you are from, I'm sure I could find some questionable things about your own country's political system and politicians to criticize too. But that still wouldn't mean everyone in your country is dumb.

Norway.

This...this is not true. Like at all.

Is Bernie more to the right than Hillary?
 

Ekai

Member
Agreed, in the political spectrum, Hillary is closer to Trump than Bernie.

While technically true that Hillary is closer to Trump than Bernie, I mean, he is farther left than her, she and Bernie are frankly similar in many ways as well. That's not to say they don't have their differences though.

It makes sense if you consider alternative political spectrums. Bernie is closer to Trump than Hillary on the authoritarian spectrum.

Haha, oh wow. That's rich.
 

User 406

Banned
So these fucknuts won't bother to do oppo research on one of their own primary contenders, but they'll do it for every conceivable SC pick.
 
I applaude anyone who's against freetrade, especially freetrade agrrements like horseshit TPP.

Trump deserves some applause imo when it comes to his stance on TPP.
This is where you get it wrong. He's not against free trade. He's just against our current trade deals. He wants to make "great" deals.
 
USA is a dumb country full of dumb people. Bush got elected twice, Romney did actually somewhat good and millions believe that angels are real, jesus will come back to earth, evolution is a lie etc.

Here's a short primer on geopolitics: every single country in the globe has a bunch of asshats running it or just biding their time until they get to run it. Every single country in the globe also has a bunch of asshats supporting the greater asshats.
Even iceland, which has like, 2 people.

Some countries might be momentarily dumber than others (like, say, australia when they let abbott win), but broaden your horizon enough and i assure you, fuckery will most definitely be afoot.
 
I applaude anyone who's against freetrade, especially freetrade agrements like horseshit TPP.

Trump deserves some applause imo when it comes to his stance on TPP.

There are valid reasons to oppose the TPP.
Feel free to elaborate on the provisions within it that have led you to reach this position.
Or alternatively, I suppose, perhaps you'd like to present an argument on the benefits of tariffs and quotas.
 

PBY

Banned
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sangreal

Member
Chris Matthews actually raised a good point on Gitmo that I'm not sure anyone can answer, not just Bernie. Basically, we want to close Gitmo and bring the prisoners here. Some people are worried about their local prisons holding some of the most dangerous people in the world, and that's completely legitimate, but we can get through that.

What makes them more dangerous than any other killers? Heck, what makes them more dangerous than the rest of the terrorists who have been locked up through the normal criminal justice system?

However, Chris raised the point that all it would take is the ACLU or some other advocacy group to say these men are on American soil, they deserve a fair trial. However, a lot of the detainees in Gitmo don't have any concrete evidence against them, so you can't really prosecute them.

So what is the basis for holding them?

Thus, if you bring them onto American soil and someone demands a trial, they basically would have to be freed. And then you would have suspected terrorists running free in America.That's a really tough question to solve. Gitmo should absolutely be closed, make no mistake. It's a disgrace that it's still open. but what do we do with the prisoners after that?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here

Letting people go that you can't prove did anything is a cornerstone of our legal system

I don't see this as a difficult problem at all though I recognize the response will be that I am being naive.
 
There's a farmer in Ohio who has written "NO TRUMP" on his land that you can see from the highway and sky. He's from Tuscarawas County.

He wrote "NO TRUMP" out of cow shit. I shit you not.

I pass it on I-77 every day - near Strasburg. He originally plowed it in Snow, then used mud/dirt/cowshit.
 

fantomena

Member
There are valid reasons to oppose the TPP.
Feel free to elaborate on the provisions within it that have led you to reach this position.

This is what it will do to my country:

- Easier to privatize.
- Easier to sell natural resources to shady corporations
- Hurts the subsidize economy to farmers
- Easier for coroprates to make money tax heavens and get cheaper workers from other countries.
- Fullt against everything my ideology of socialdemocacy stands for
 

sangreal

Member
Yo he's dropping bombs

Christie is a great hype man

Sum it up for me so I don't have to listen to Define. I'll give you a dollar. Please.

He didn't say much of anything. Recognized Clinton advantage in the south and Chris asked him if they deploy the celebrities who have endorsed bernie and he said yes. Said he wishes that they had Morgan Freeman's delightful voice
 
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