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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN

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royalan

Member
Lets start with a list of things I didn't say.

1. Hillary Clinton is literally the same as Ted Cruz.

^This is obvious right? I already am familiar with Ted.

The point is to find the president who isn't going to frame a war like Hillary Clinton does. Which wars weren't for the greater good?

That's where the similarity is.

What war is Hillary framing here? She doesn't want a war. She doesn't want the US involved in the Syrian conflict (and the various conflicts surrounding it) anymore than we already are.

I'm just not understanding your point here. Hillary says that she wants "smart power diplomacy", and it shows in what she is advocating -- basically, a continuation of what Obama's already doing. Ted Cruz, on the other hand, may say that his use of power is for the greater good, but what is he advocating? Carpet bombing ISIS held cities. There's just no real common ground here.
 

Tubie

Member
It’s clear that Bernie and his campaign are desperate to regain momentum in this race -- they’re down more than 200 delegates and 2 million votes, so they’re saying whatever it takes to try to turn things their way, including the outrageous lie that Hillary isn’t qualified to be president.

They won Wisconsin and tied in delegates in Wyoming this week -- but the math is on our side. We’re heading into a huge contest in New York just nine days from now, and it’s time for us to show them exactly how strong our team is.

Thanks so much for stepping up this week. If you’re with Hillary, chip in another $1 right now to bring home a decisive win in New York -- let’s lock down this nomination once and for all:

Khaleesi is coming to Westeros.

Bernie the Usurper will never sit the Iron Throne of Wall Street.
 

East Lake

Member
What war is Hillary framing here? She doesn't want a war. She doesn't want the US involved in the Syrian conflict (and the various conflicts surrounding it) anymore than we already are.

I'm just not understanding your point here. Hillary says that she wants "smart power diplomacy", and it shows in what she is advocating -- basically, a continuation of what Obama's already doing. Ted Cruz, on the other hand, may say that his use of power is for the greater good, but what is he advocating? Carpet bombing ISIS held cities. There's just no real common ground here.
The common ground is that "smart power diplomacy" is a general description that will fit nearly any politician. Carpet bombing Ted will gladly accept that term, even if his definition of smart happens to be a bit different. Likewise Ted will also frame any future war or conflict with the highest ideals. Bombing ISIS with civilian casualties will be done to save the Iraqi christians and bring liberty to the middle east etc... Lyin Ted will also support allies who support us. So all the ways to describe Hillary's attributes end up being generalities that conservative op-ed writers will use to describe the next leader who wants to invade.

On the other hand you could think she's more honest or something, but it's a bit lazy to call people who are skeptical sexist.
 
When is Obama going to openly endorse Hillary? Is he waiting for Sanders to concede before picking a side? Surely that should bring an end to the primary so the Democrats can focus on the GE?
 

Trancos

Member
When is Obama going to openly endorse Hillary? Is he waiting for Sanders to concede before picking a side? Surely that should bring an end to the primary so the Democrats can focus on the GE?

Presidents don't endorse a candidate until after the convention. The president always endorse the convention winner. Obama has made clear he supports Hillary anyway, he just can't endorse her until she wins the majority of delegates,
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
When is Obama going to openly endorse Hillary? Is he waiting for Sanders to concede before picking a side? Surely that should bring an end to the primary so the Democrats can focus on the GE?

If she trounces New York like some of the projections show, he may endorse and encourage the primary to end. It's next to mathematically impossible already for Sanders, so a loss in New York should end it for a normal candidate. Since Sanders is turning out to be an egotistical maniac, he will probably continue fleecing his supporters with projections of winning California by 35 points, making super delegates override both the popular and delegate votes, and continue to pretend he would fair better in the GE.

I wonder if he is so full of himself to get his supporters to protest for outright overriding the results of primaries. After all, it's his go to method for getting stuff done.
 

Maledict

Member
If she trounces New York like some of the projections show, he may endorse and encourage the primary to end. It's next to mathematically impossible already for Sanders, so a loss in New York should end it for a normal candidate. Since Sanders is turning out to be an egotistical maniac, he will probably continue fleecing his supporters with projections of winning California by 35 points, making super delegates override both the popular and delegate votes, and continue to pretend he would fair better in the GE.

I wonder if he is so full of himself to get his supporters to protest for outright overriding the results of primaries. After all, it's his go to method for getting stuff done.

He is absolutely not going to endorse if she romps home in New York - why would he? If that happens she's guaranteed a win, what value would his endorsement have beyond pissing off Bernie supporters who we need in the general?

I do t think anything could push him to endorse outside of a catastrophe happening - heaven forbid the nominee fell ill or was indicted, he might endorse an alternative compromise candidate.
 

Farmboy

Member
I honestly think (and hope) that when we look back on the dem primary of 2016 in four years time - or even four months' time - we'll shake our heads at the faux-contentiousness and manufactured drama. It's obvious even now that there's no real story on the dem side. Qualified-gate is really nothing compared to 2008, let alone the sheer lunacy going on at the other side.

Bernie Sanders will be a great progressive Senator again, one who was a suprisingly effective presidential candidate once. That we thought of him as a crazy egomaniac at one point will be hard to fathom.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Bernie is sitting there telling us that if we clap really hard, Tinkerbell will live. Hillary is like, “That bitch is dead, I shot her. It’s time to grow up.”
That's a very accurate distillation of their differing approaches. I love it.

Brings to mind one of my favorite bits from Newsradio, Bill McNeal riffing on the Biblical line: It's like my father used to say: "When I was a child I thought as a child and spoke as a child, but when I became a man I took that child out back and had him shot."
 
Presidents don't endorse a candidate until after the convention. The president always endorse the convention winner. Obama has made clear he supports Hillary anyway, he just can't endorse her until she wins the majority of delegates,

If she trounces New York like some of the projections show, he may endorse and encourage the primary to end.

Ok makes sense! Thanks for the info.

I've been lurking on PoliGAF for a while but hope to get more involved as I love American Politics especially the whole Circus nature of it (this election especially). I wanted Hillary to win in 2008 but Obama was just so charismatic I didn't mind that he eventually won. I'm hoping this election is finally her chance and hope Bernie and his supporters don't become bitter about it if he eventually loses.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
When is Obama going to openly endorse Hillary? Is he waiting for Sanders to concede before picking a side? Surely that should bring an end to the primary so the Democrats can focus on the GE?

He will endorse her when she wins the primary on June 7.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
WHAT IS GOING ON TODAY WITH THE WASHINGTON FREE BEACON?

Bernie Sanders Smears Israel (what???)

This Delaware Address Is Home to 200,000 Shell Companies—Including Hillary Clinton’s

Dogs Are Now Flying Planes

Reporter: Clinton Camp Used Static Noise to Drown Out Speech at Colorado Fundraiser

The Real Scandal of Clinton’s Subway Trip: She Violated the NYC Metro Rules

‘Mary Sue Steals the Death Star Plans: A Star Wars Story’ Trailer
 

Clefargle

Member
I honestly think (and hope) that when we look back on the dem primary of 2016 in four years time - or even four months' time - we'll shake our heads at the faux-contentiousness and manufactured drama. It's obvious even now that there's no real story on the dem side. Qualified-gate is really nothing compared to 2008, let alone the sheer lunacy going on at the other side.

Bernie Sanders will be a great progressive Senator again, one who was a suprisingly effective presidential candidate once. That we thought of him as a crazy egomaniac at one point will be hard to fathom.

Yeah and it's even more hilarious considering many Bernie supporters see him as a victim of media bias when it's just the opposite. The media has pushed the idea that this is a close race ad nauseum and hyped up any minute differences in policy between them because they are so similar.
 

Imagine republicans were trying to impeach Hillary for a couple of ambiguous crimes she didn't participate in. Then Obama makes an interview to a media that isn't spouting Fox News rethoric 24/7.

Now imagine the reporter making the interview is not a Bernie Sanders supporter! Would you call the reporter a joke too?

I honestly think (and hope) that when we look back on the dem primary of 2016 in four years time - or even four months' time - we'll shake our heads at the faux-contentiousness and manufactured drama. It's obvious even now that there's no real story on the dem side. Qualified-gate is really nothing compared to 2008, let alone the sheer lunacy going on at the other side.

Bernie Sanders will be a great progressive Senator again, one who was a suprisingly effective presidential candidate once. That we thought of him as a crazy egomaniac at one point will be hard to fathom.

I mean, Bernie has never brought up assassination scenarios when it comes to Hillary (like she did with Obama in 08). Nothing Bernie has said is comparable to the ugliness the Clintons tried 8 years ago. People are just being extra because now defending Hillary equals protecting Obama's legacy.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Imagine republicans were trying to impeach Hillary for a couple of ambiguous crimes she didn't participate in. Then Obama makes an interview to a media that isn't spouting Fox News rethoric 24/7.

Now imagine the reporter making the interview is not a Bernie Sanders supporter! Would you call the reporter a joke too?



I mean, Bernie has never brought up assassination scenarios when it comes to Hillary (like she did with Obama in 08). Nothing Bernie has said is comparable to the ugliness the Clintons tried 8 years ago. People are just being extra because now defending Hillary equals protecting Obama's legacy.

Do you think lula and/or dilma is ambiguously related to the stuff happening in Brazil?
 

Boney

Banned
Yeah and it's even more hilarious considering many Bernie supporters see him as a victim of media bias when it's just the opposite. The media has pushed the idea that this is a close race ad nauseum and hyped up any minute differences in policy between them because they are so similar.
Sure except everytime Bernie is being interviewed they ask him if he's gonna support Hillary if she wins and how is he gonna mobilize his electorate towards Hillary. But sure the media is in Bernie's favor, it's actually impossible to go through the countless delirious articles and tv spots where they mention how Bernie is actually winning the race and that Hillary should drop out already so they can focus on the GE.
 
Smart power, so far as I'm aware, has nothing to do with thinking oneself to be clever.

Carpet bombing a country in the absence of any attempt to leverage other influences would not be smart power. It's just military action.
Sure except everytime Bernie is being interviewed they ask him if he's gonna support Hillary if she wins and how is he gonna mobilize his electorate towards Hillary. But sure the media is in Bernie's favor, it's actually impossible to go through the countless delirious articles and tv spots where they mention how Bernie is actually winning the race and that Hillary should drop out already so they can focus on the GE.
That's because she's essentially won. Accept it move on.
No one's going to ask her to drop out, because she's won.
She's the winner.
He lost.
No one asks the winner to drop out for the loser.
No one cares about Wyoming, and even if they did, he didn't even really win anything.
Delegate math.

Hopefully that clears it up.
 
Sure except everytime Bernie is being interviewed they ask him if he's gonna support Hillary if she wins and how is he gonna mobilize his electorate towards Hillary. But sure the media is in Bernie's favor, it's actually impossible to go through the countless delirious articles and tv spots where they mention how Bernie is actually winning the race and that Hillary should drop out already so they can focus on the GE.

Those are questions you ask a person who is likely to lose.

OTOH, the media is allergic to the idea that Bernie has improbably steep odds to overcome at this point. They're treating it like 2008.
 

dramatis

Member
Bernie Sanders will be a great progressive Senator again, one who was a suprisingly effective presidential candidate once. That we thought of him as a crazy egomaniac at one point will be hard to fathom.
It depends on Bernie Sanders, to be honest.

I think John McCain never recovered from 2008.
 

Boney

Banned
Smart power for her is "we came, we saw, he died"

Smart power, so far as I'm aware, has nothing to do with thinking oneself to be clever.

Carpet bombing a country in the absence of any attempt to leverage other influences would not be smart power. It's just military action.

That's because she's essentially won. Accept it move on.
No one's going to ask her to drop out, because she's won.
She's the winner.
He lost.
No one asks the winner to drop out for the loser.
No one cares about Wyoming, and even if they did, he didn't even really win anything.
Delegate math.

Hopefully that clears it up.

Those are questions you ask a person who is likely to lose.

OTOH, the media is allergic to the idea that Bernie has improbably steep odds to overcome at this point. They're treating it like 2008.
I know that Hillary has it almost in the bag, despite being a nervous wreck atm. But like what is the media supposed to do to be more impartial as he was suggesting? Would a "hey baldie! Nobody cares about you and the poor. Stop trying to overturn citizens united, it's working great for us you dumb dumb!". Would that be better?

He's still running and they're covering him and while they give little shits about interesting tidbits like 20.000 people at the Bronx and how crazy it is that this guy is giving the establishment a run for it's money, they rather focus on Hillary riding the subway.
 

Clefargle

Member
Sure except everytime Bernie is being interviewed they ask him if he's gonna support Hillary if she wins and how is he gonna mobilize his electorate towards Hillary. But sure the media is in Bernie's favor, it's actually impossible to go through the countless delirious articles and tv spots where they mention how Bernie is actually winning the race and that Hillary should drop out already so they can focus on the GE.

You are talking about recently, I'm talking about the last 6mo. Big difference there
 
Do you think lula and/or dilma is ambiguously related to the stuff happening in Brazil?

There's no evidence to them getting their hands dirty with Petrobras. There's the recorded phone call with the assumed reason of giving immunity to Lula (which is not true, he could still get prosecuted), but that's it.

The right wing politicians are just as balls deep into the corruption scandal as the PT, and still they are really trying to make it all about Lula because it is a political marvel for them to be able to erase and taint his legacy.
 

Trancos

Member
Hot off the press!!
There is a new UPDATED version of the program of the workshop that Bernie is attending in the Vatican. The new version now list him as a speaker for a whole 10 min before the coffee break.

10 whole minutes at the very sought afternoon tea spot. That's certainly worth stop campaigning for 2-3 days 72 hours before your last stand.

Who vetted this? I can't imagine someone in the campaign think this is a good move.


http://www.pass.va/content/dam/scienzesociali/booklet/centesimus_annus.pdf
 

Boney

Banned
You are talking about recently, I'm talking about the last 6mo. Big difference there
I haven't been following for that long but 6 months ago there weren't any votes. There's a reason Bernie rose and the other candidates sunk like a rock because he had an unprecedented system for financing and did great at debates. So he climbed up the polls at insane speeds. Hillary has it in the bag yes but it raises a lot of eyebrows that this guy went from a 3% to what 40%~? It's pretty crazy especially with DWS doing her darnedest to coronate Hillary as seamlessly as possible.
 

royalan

Member
The common ground is that "smart power diplomacy" is a general description that will fit nearly any politician. Carpet bombing Ted will gladly accept that term, even if his definition of smart happens to be a bit different. Likewise Ted will also frame any future war or conflict with the highest ideals. Bombing ISIS with civilian casualties will be done to save the Iraqi christians and bring liberty to the middle east etc... Lyin Ted will also support allies who support us. So all the ways to describe Hillary's attributes end up being generalities that conservative op-ed writers will use to describe the next leader who wants to invade.

On the other hand you could think she's more honest or something, but it's a bit lazy to call people who are skeptical sexist.

First, "A bit different" is a gross understatement. Hillary Clinton and Ted Cruz share nothing in common when it comes to matters of foreign policy, either in their beliefs or approach. You keep trying to draw this line, and it makes no sense. There's a huge difference in what they're advocating, even if they could both describe it as "smart power." One actually is smart power, if for no other reason than she's not advocating "precise" carpet bombing...whatever the hell that is.

And while I wouldn't call a person sexist for this, I do believe this is gendered thinking. As I said earlier, "hawkish" is a term I've mostly only seen applied to Hillary this entire election season, on both sides. Bernie has openly stated he would use military force, even increased military force, if he had to as a last resort (which is what Hillary has said). Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio were openly calling for a vastly increased military presence to fight ISIS, with Kasich going a step further and calling for boots on the ground in several countries. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, basically wants to continue what Obama is already doing. So why does it seem like she has ownership of the term hawkish, when what she has called for has been mild and support-focused at its most extreme? Personally, I do think it's because she's a woman. She's woman who's not afraid to be tough, who won't be foolish and completely take the use of military force off the table if asked even while strongly favoring diplomacy and force used only as a last resort and, unlike most of the field, she's intelligent and experienced enough to go into hair-splitting detail when questioned. Lets not pretend that we as a society haven't had issues with women like this before. And for this, she gets called a hawk.
 
Hot off the press!!
There is a new UPDATED version of the program of the workshop that Bernie is attending in the Vatican. The new version now list him as a speaker for a whole 10 min before the coffee break.

10 whole minutes at the very sought after afternoon tea spot. That's certainly worth stop campaigning for 2-3 days 72 hours before your last stand.

Who vetted this? I can't imagine someone in the campaign think this is a good move.


http://www.pass.va/content/dam/scienzesociali/booklet/centesimus_annus.pdf



The media will report on it without boring details.

40% of the New York population is Catholic, and they will get bombarded with "Bernie is in the Vatican" news just days before the election.

Absolutely genius tbh.
 

User 406

Banned
that article ivy linked said:
After many speeches and debates, I see no “revolution” coming in the poll results. Bernie’s support comes from educated white males, young white women, Ta-Nehisi Coates, and the Screen Actors Guild. That’s not a political revolution, that’s the check out line at Whole Foods.

giphy.gif


sickest burn

That article is dead on about the impossible bind Hillary has been put in forever.


There must be a lot to be proud of if you're from Connecticut...

Real talk, New Haven apizza alone easily puts it in the top tier.


Honestly, I think the view of Hillary as "hawkish" is very gendered thinking. This stereotypical view that a mature woman is either a nurturing mother figure, or an evil harpy shrew, with very little room in-between.

Hillary has said countless times at this point that she has no interest or intention of involving the US in another ground war or costing American lives unnecessarily. She's called herself a "smart power diplomat" and only advocates using the force of the American military if it can be demonstrated that even greater loss of life would result from inaction. She's advocated supporting the allies who have supported us, and she's hardly the only one to do so. Hell, Obama was on FOX this week defending the US going into Libya, yet he hasn't taken half the flack for it that Hillary has, and it's his damn administration.

For all the flack Hillary gets about wanting to be our abuela, it's like people actually WANT her to be like our grandmothers, and when she's not, she's an evil warmonger. It's ridiculous.

This. Of all people, Hillary Clinton has no illusions whatsoever about what Presidents end up doing as Commander in Chief. If she advocated unrealistic isolationist pullouts, people would say, "for someone who was SoS and the First Lady, she sure doesn't seem to have learned the complex realities of regional conflicts!" Nothing is ever good enough.


Finally beat dark souls!! On my last attempt before going to sleep. Had to use a crossbow to take gwyn down. Feels good to never have to play this game again

Die 40 times and spend 3 minutes running back to the boss every time souls would have been a more apt albeit lengthy title

You say that now, but you'll start thinking about what if I used this other type of weapon, or a magic user, or what if I did this or that, and pretty soon you're doing naked bows only deathless speedruns and your life is in ruins

RUINS
 
It's the combined use of soft and hard power influence, the full gamut of diplomatic and military tools as part of foreign policy. This isn't particularly difficult to find out about or comprehend. It wasn't something that came about during HRC's term as Sec State.

I'm not an American. I don't live in the US. I post in here because I find the strange spectacle that is US politics interesting.
There's a frankly annoying trend of people from outside the US who seemingly have no actual interest in learning about US politics simply proffering bizarre or inane opinions about US politics, and then ignoring when people living in the US provide context from a local perspective or information on how the system works.
Something, I generally try not to do, because it's annoying.

Some of them are taking a holiday for doing this. Because again, it's annoying as hell.

As for the media, it's already been pointed out that the media's bias is for a story. And there's no story in Hillary Clinton has already won, so the horse race is more useful a narrative. Also no one's covering his big rallies or boarding his press plane before because it's boring.
 
The media will report on it without boring details.

40% of the New York population is Catholic, and they will get bombarded with "Bernie is in the Vatican" news just days before the election.

Absolutely genius tbh.

It is absolutely not genius at all. It's completely stupid. Look, I have no problems with using optics to try and set a narrative. The media coverage of this has been shit. They covered the "he asked to come" angle and the "insiders inside the Vatican were pissed off angle." If they allow media into this event, it's going to be Bernie talking to a group of like, what, 30-40 people? Bernie's campaign, apparently, knew little about this before he decided to do it, for whatever reason. This absolutely reeks of desperation.

You want to set a narrative, you do what Obama did. You don't invite yourself to an academic conference, say the pope invited you, and then have the pope's people say "No we didn't" and "By the way, he's not even going to be here."

The whole thing was absolutely stupid from the get go.
 
The media will report on it without boring details.

40% of the New York population is Catholic, and they will get bombarded with "Bernie is in the Vatican" news just days before the election.

Absolutely genius tbh.

It would take a hug from the Pope for NYC Catholics to care.

That said, I think it's pretty cool that he's speaking there to be honest, even if it seems like a bad idea logistically and/or a weird sideways attempt to score Catholic points. It's certainly consistent with his message.
 

Boney

Banned
Stop saying he invited himself to the Vatican Jesus. That report came from a UK correspondent that was inmediatly denied by the chairman of the committee.

And honestly I think rather than using it for actual electorate boost, he's rather using him being in the media's eye to push his message of social economy to more people. Don't you guys get worried when the income gaps for the richest start to get wider? The fast food strike was an amazing act of empowerment that needs to be followed through by other chains like Walmart (who continuously take legal actions against unions) with their depredatory business model. Even if you disagree with Bernie being a good fit for president, him using this spotlight to address important issues facing society should be celebrated and endorsed, especially by pushing Hillary to the left by picking up on some of Bernie's talking points.

First, "A bit different" is a gross understatement. Hillary Clinton and Ted Cruz share nothing in common when it comes to matters of foreign policy, either in their beliefs or approach. You keep trying to draw this line, and it makes no sense. There's a huge difference in what they're advocating, even if they could both describe it as "smart power." One actually is smart power, if for no other reason than she's not advocating "precise" carpet bombing...whatever the hell that is.

And while I wouldn't call a person sexist for this, I do believe this is gendered thinking. As I said earlier, "hawkish" is a term I've mostly only seen applied to Hillary this entire election season, on both sides. Bernie has openly stated he would use military force, even increased military force, if he had to as a last resort (which is what Hillary has said). Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio were openly calling for a vastly increased military presence to fight ISIS, with Kasich going a step further and calling for boots on the ground in several countries. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, basically wants to continue what Obama is already doing. So why does it seem like she has ownership of the term hawkish, when what she has called for has been mild and support-focused at its most extreme? Personally, I do think it's because she's a woman. She's woman who's not afraid to be tough, who won't be foolish and completely take the use of military force off the table if asked even while strongly favoring diplomacy and force used only as a last resort and, unlike most of the field, she's intelligent and experienced enough to go into hair-splitting detail when questioned. Lets not pretend that we as a society haven't had issues with women like this before. And for this, she gets called a hawk.
I'm pretty ignorant on this but I've seen criticism on her advocating for a no fly zone that could end up having repercussions and what not, I'm not well versed on military tactics so it would be great if you guys could chime in if it's an overreaction or what it could represent.

Hillary is hawkish because she has been behind a shit load of regime changes. She supposedly push very hard for the Lybian (or was it Syrian) military intervention despite the CIA saying otherwise and I've heard academics calling her out on her taking credit on "cease fire negotiations" when according to them there were actually none because Hillary pushed for millitary action.

Most of my info I get from Democracy Now which is super far left inclined but it's from academic guests which I'm very inclined to believe over far right conspiracies about her. And for the record I think Obama's push for the Drone Program is pretty much a war crime targeting civilans indiscriminately and doing second rounds on people trying to save wounded people.
 
It's essentially an academic conference. There are a bajillion of these things going on all the time. Is he a keynote at least? So wacky.

At least go see like actual world leaders of something while you're over there, if you're trying to build FP credentials.
 

dramatis

Member
If you want an idea of what people mean by Hillary's idea of "smart power", you would probably find it best here.
Bruce Jentleson, a political scientist who worked as a senior advisor to the State Department's Policy Planning director from 2009 to 2011, says that in Clinton, "you see elements of 20th century thinking and 21st century thinking." Clinton sought to consistently redefine America's national interest to include not just classic geopolitical calculations but the economic and institutional development of other states. She made the status of women a central concern of her tenure. She sought to transcend the simple-minded distinction between "hard" and "soft" power by adopting the term "smart power," to describe a form of statecraft that combined development, diplomacy, public-private partnerships and, yes, military power. One of her signal initiatives was the Quadrennial Diplomacy and Development Review, an effort to re-think the organization of the State Department in order to harmonize all of these elements. The exercise generated a great deal of noise and a few modest outcomes: State now has officials directly responsible for "cross-cutting" issues including energy, women's rights, and information technology.

It's an unusual combination. Clinton thinks about the relationship between states pretty much the way Henry Kissinger does. But she thinks about America's global agenda pretty much the way Barack Obama does. This sounds like a contradiction, but could also be regarded as an adaptation to a world in which the United States faces both rival states, as it long has, and a new class of problems without borders.
 

noshten

Member
Honestly, I think the view of Hillary as "hawkish" is very gendered thinking. This stereotypical view that a mature woman is either a nurturing mother figure, or an evil harpy shrew, with very little room in-between.

Hillary has said countless times at this point that she has no interest or intention of involving the US in another ground war or costing American lives unnecessarily. She's called herself a "smart power diplomat" and only advocates using the force of the American military if it can be demonstrated that even greater loss of life would result from inaction. She's advocated supporting the allies who have supported us, and she's hardly the only one to do so. Hell, Obama was on FOX this week defending the US going into Libya, yet he hasn't taken half the flack for it that Hillary has, and it's his damn administration.

For all the flack Hillary gets about wanting to be our abuela, it's like people actually WANT her to be like our grandmothers, and when she's not, she's an evil warmonger. It's ridiculous.

A no-fly zone over Syria is a declaration of War against the Assad regime. In order to be implemented according to Gen. Dempsey it would require as many as 70,000 American servicemen. This was something she was pushing just a few months ago but I guess she evolved and it's sexist to talk about it because it's probably something a lot of other male neocons also wanted.
 

CCS

Banned
I don't know why you guys are so down on Sanders going to the Vatican. You have to confess your sins before you die after all, and his campaign only has until the 19th to do that.
 

Trancos

Member
The media will report on it without boring details.

40% of the New York population is Catholic, and they will get bombarded with "Bernie is in the Vatican" news just days before the election.

Absolutely genius tbh.

As a white catholic hispanic latino i can tell you is the pope people care about, not the vatican institution.
In fact to be precise is THIS pope that the left leaning catholic care about. previous one was very unpopular among that demographic. The vatican by itself doesn't mean anything in politics.

And the narrative from the press has been awful since he said he was invited BY THE POPE AND HE WILL WOULD MEET THE POPE live on national television (which was false)
 
I don't know why you guys are so down on Sanders going to the Vatican. You have to confess your sins before you die after all, and his campaign only has until the 19th to do that.

<3

I just get annoyed for a campaigning perspective. If you're going to leave the trail, you better have a DAMN good reason, and that reason better help not hurt you. This has no ability to help him, and only has an ability to hurt him. It's absolutely stupid as all hell.

He had a shitty week, and he seemingly lost all sense.
 

gaugebozo

Member
Hot off the press!!
There is a new UPDATED version of the program of the workshop that Bernie is attending in the Vatican. The new version now list him as a speaker for a whole 10 min before the coffee break.

10 whole minutes at the very sought afternoon tea spot. That's certainly worth stop campaigning for 2-3 days 72 hours before your last stand.

Who vetted this? I can't imagine someone in the campaign think this is a good move.


http://www.pass.va/content/dam/scienzesociali/booklet/centesimus_annus.pdf

Oh man, right before tea is the worst. Everyone's just itching to get to the danishes, and no one can keep their eyes open.
 

East Lake

Member
First, "A bit different" is a gross understatement. Hillary Clinton and Ted Cruz share nothing in common when it comes to matters of foreign policy, either in their beliefs or approach. You keep trying to draw this line, and it makes no sense. There's a huge difference in what they're advocating, even if they could both describe it as "smart power." One actually is smart power, if for no other reason than she's not advocating "precise" carpet bombing...whatever the hell that is.

And while I wouldn't call a person sexist for this, I do believe this is gendered thinking. As I said earlier, "hawkish" is a term I've mostly only seen applied to Hillary this entire election season, on both sides. Bernie has openly stated he would use military force, even increased military force, if he had to as a last resort (which is what Hillary has said). Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio were openly calling for a vastly increased military presence to fight ISIS, with Kasich going a step further and calling for boots on the ground in several countries. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, basically wants to continue what Obama is already doing. So why does it seem like she has ownership of the term hawkish, when what she has called for has been mild and support-focused at its most extreme? Personally, I do think it's because she's a woman. She's woman who's not afraid to be tough, who won't be foolish and completely take the use of military force off the table if asked even while strongly favoring diplomacy and force used only as a last resort and, unlike most of the field, she's intelligent and experienced enough to go into hair-splitting detail when questioned. Lets not pretend that we as a society haven't had issues with women like this before. And for this, she gets called a hawk.
You are reading what I'm writing right, like you know I don't think Ted Cruz's policies are exactly the same? You keep listing policy details like it's some revelation when I've known about Ted Cruz's policies probably longer than you have, along with virtually everyone else in the thread.

Your original claim against calling Hillary hawkish, which is a standard description of any politician a person might think is prone to conflict, was that Hillary described herself as advocating smart power, support of allies, unwillingness to spend american lives, and to only invade when it's for the greater good. Which are all things every candidate will claim before every conflict.

If you want to talk about the actual decisions she made that might get you somewhere, but up until this point the arguments you're making aren't that convincing.
 

samn

Member
WHAT IS GOING ON TODAY WITH THE WASHINGTON FREE BEACON?

Bernie Sanders Smears Israel (what???)

This Delaware Address Is Home to 200,000 Shell Companies&#8212;Including Hillary Clinton&#8217;s

Dogs Are Now Flying Planes

Reporter: Clinton Camp Used Static Noise to Drown Out Speech at Colorado Fundraiser

The Real Scandal of Clinton&#8217;s Subway Trip: She Violated the NYC Metro Rules

&#8216;Mary Sue Steals the Death Star Plans: A Star Wars Story&#8217; Trailer

Well they're not wrong about the dog plane thing.

 

CCS

Banned
<3

I just get annoyed for a campaigning perspective. If you're going to leave the trail, you better have a DAMN good reason, and that reason better help not hurt you. This has no ability to help him, and only has an ability to hurt him. It's absolutely stupid as all hell.

He had a shitty week, and he seemingly lost all sense.

It's the Hail Mary to end all Hail Mary's. Not going to work though.

Well they're not wrong about the dog plane thing.

Exclusive picture from the Sanders campaign plane? :p
 

Boney

Banned
<3

I just get annoyed for a campaigning perspective. If you're going to leave the trail, you better have a DAMN good reason, and that reason better help not hurt you. This has no ability to help him, and only has an ability to hurt him. It's absolutely stupid as all hell.

He had a shitty week, and he seemingly lost all sense.
Is going to fundraisers a better reason to leave the campaign trail?
 

dramatis

Member
From NY Times:

Michelle Obama’s Graduation Speeches Show Her Personal Side
For most of her time in the White House, Mrs. Obama has made a point of addressing at least one historically black college or university each year. She spoke at Tuskegee University in Tuskegee, Ala., in 2015; Dillard University in New Orleans in 2014; Bowie State University in Bowie, Md., in 2013; North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University in Greensboro in 2012; Spelman College in Atlanta in 2011; and the University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff in 2o10.

In her speeches, she has become more personal and often uses words like “we” and “us” when describing the challenges that only African-Americans face. Last year at Tuskegee, Mrs. Obama told the audience that she was subjected to a barrage of questions as the nation’s first African-American first lady.

“Was I too loud, or too angry, or too emasculating?” she asked to applause. “Or was I too soft, too much of a mom, not enough of a career woman?”
 
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