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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN

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Mark Murray ‏@mmurraypolitics 15m15 minutes ago
Sanders mgr Weaver tells @tamronhall Sanders will pass HRC in pledged dels. HRC's lead "will get lower and lower until he passes her on 6/7"

Hillary had them Big Apple bottom jeans
Boots with the fur
Thewhole country lookin' at her
She hit the floor
Next thing ya know,
Hillary got low, low, low low...

Them baggy sweat pants and the Reebok's with the straps
She turned around and gave that big delegate lead a slap
She hit the floor.
Next thing you know,
Hillary got low, low, low, low, low....

giphy.gif
 

ApharmdX

Banned
People thinking the bolded part of his post is why he had a hard time making inroads is why he didn't make inroads. The fact of the matter is he was invisible to a huge swath of the electorate until he started running and then only started talking about the issues that affected them after getting forced into it. Bernie not doing better is all on him not putting the work in beforehand and thinking people would just rally around his message.

I agree. I think Bernie would have done much better if he had gotten himself out prominently on the national stage a year or two ago on issues affecting minority communities. Ted Cruz got the spotlight on the budget/Obamacare and, while that endeared him to probably no one here, it got him recognition among the voters that he was targeting.

It was almost like Sanders ran as an afterthought and his success came as a surprise to him?
 
I agree. I think Bernie would have done much better if he had gotten himself out prominently on the national stage a year or two ago on issues affecting minority communities. Ted Cruz got the spotlight on the budget/Obamacare and, while that endeared him to probably no one here, it got him recognition among the voters that he was targeting.

It was almost like Sanders ran as an afterthought and his success came as a surprise to him?

I think this is exactly what happened. He ran as a message candidate. He never thought he'd win or even have a chance to win. The narrow field made it so he was the only other viable candidate. (There were really only 3 people running in this race.) Somewhere around the summer, be bought into his own Kool Aide and thought he had a chance to win.

If he wanted to actually have had a shot at this, he should have been doing listening tours and stuff from 2012 on. The minute Obama took the oath, he needed to start the planning. If he had made some inroads among southern Democrats and, especially, people of color, he may have actually had a revolution on hsi hands.
 
Oh good lord.

Lol at the invited by pope thing.



What's the joke?
New York City’s annual Inner Circle Dinner brought New York politicians together for an evening of food and fun but also for stiff politicians performing awkward skits. Such was the case when former New York Senator Hillary Clinton and New York City mayor Bill de Blasio were on stage. Clinton poked fun at de Blasio for his endorsement coming a little late in the game for Clinton’s taste. “I just have to say thanks for the endorsement, Bill. Took you long enough,” she said to laughter.

“Sorry Hillary, I was running on C.P. time,” de Blasio responded to a mixture of chuckles and gasps. CPT is known as “colored people time” the stereotype that African Americans generally tell as a reason for being late to an event or a traditionally black event not beginning on time.

Another actor — a black man playing the character of former Vice President Aaron Burr — chimed in: “I don’t like jokes like that, Bill.”

Clinton stepped into the scripted exchange.

“Cautious politician time,” she said. “I’ve been there.”

The video is better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45cvqnJW1UY
 

ApharmdX

Banned
I think this is exactly what happened. He ran as a message candidate. He never thought he'd win or even have a chance to win. The narrow field made it so he was the only other viable candidate. (There were really only 3 people running in this race.) Somewhere around the summer, be bought into his own Kool Aide and thought he had a chance to win.

If he wanted to actually have had a shot at this, he should have been doing listening tours and stuff from 2012 on. The minute Obama took the oath, he needed to start the planning. If he had made some inroads among southern Democrats and, especially, people of color, he may have actually had a revolution on hsi hands.

On the other hand, if Bernie had been on the national stage as a serious candidate earlier, he would have been subject to greater scrutiny. He's benefited from that, and I say that as a supporter of his; Hillary has been under the microscope for ages. Bernie, not nearly as much.
 
Came across this today, do you think we are in a similar point in time except reversed for the democrats? Or just somebody using prior data avoid of context to support his point?

.

Certainly I think it illustrates that control of Congress and statehouses doesn't necessarily translate into success for a presidential candidate. A Donald Trump nomination would have some interesting parallels with 1972, with a major party candidate who is seen as extreme by much of the voting population and whom the party establishment did not want.

On the other hand, 1972 was a very different election in a very different time. The long story short was that the Democratic coalition that dated back to the New Deal era was falling apart by the late 1960s. You could see the cracks developing as far back as the late 1940s, but the strong third party candidacy of George Wallace in the 1968 election was, in retrospect, when one can see that the coalition was doomed. It was nearly impossible for a national candidate to appeal to all parts of the Democratic base without actively alienating other parts. Jimmy Carter was able to patch together just enough of the coalition to win in 1976, aided by a weak economy, the Watergate scandal, and his particular appeal to Southerners (he was the first major party candidate for president from the Deep South since before the Civil War). That it took such a favorable set of circumstances to barely win a presidential election (albeit with a weak candidate) really illustrates how much trouble the Democrats were in at a national level.

A candidate only running in a particular state or district could concentrate on the portions of the base that were strongest there while benefiting a lot from some degree of inertia (Democrats had dominated Congress since the early 1930s and held a majority in both houses for nearly 20 years straight heading into the 1972 elections). The starkest contrast was in the South, where Democrats held virtually complete control at the state level and large majorities in Congress and would continue to do so even as they increasingly voted Republican in presidential elections.

The circumstances today by which the Republicans control Congress and most statehouses are quite different. They represent less the lingering effects of a previously dominant coalition as the issue of Democrats having difficulty turning out their voters for midterm elections and the ramifications of Republicans largely controlling the process of redistricting in the wake of the 2010 elections. It does seem that tensions between parts of the Republican coalition are increasing, as evidenced both by the rise of Trump and by the conflict between establishment and Tea Party factions in Congress, but I don't know that we can say the situation is that similar to 1972.

One additional thing to note is that the Democrats actually fared reasonably well down ballot that year despite the landslide loss in the presidential election. They suffered modest losses in the House, but not nearly enough to threaten their majority, and they actually gained a couple of seats in the Senate. This certainly makes me wonder if the best bet for the Republicans, if Trump gets the nomination, is to somewhat emulate what the Democrats did in 1972. Rather than a third party candidate, they could just work to distance themselves from him.

Finally, as disastrous as the McGovern campaign turned out to be, it ironically enough showed the beginnings of a new coalition that would allow the Democrats to win presidential elections again. That is, if one looks at the groups that McGovern overperformed with relative to his overall result, you can actually see the makings of what is now called the Obama coalition. McGovern may not have done well enough with these groups, and they may not have been a large enough share of the 1972 electorate to make a majority, but the current Democratic coalition is sometimes referred to as George McGovern's revenge.
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-trump-bros/

"Misogyny was an issue about maybe 60, 80 years ago," said Rowe. "That's not an issue today. There are a lot bigger fish to fry...You know, ISIS is chopping off heads. We've got 19 trillion dollars in debt."

David Portnoy, the founder of Barstool Sports -- the frat-focused sports website where the "Smokeshow of the Day" serves as the ultimate clickbait -- said Trump's appeal to young men speaks to anxiety over a creeping political correctness throughout American society.

"There is a sentiment among frat guys, lacrosse players and middle class affluent white kids that they are kind of getting persecuted lately," Portnoy told CBS News.

"You tell a joke it gets blown out of proportion. You gotta walk on eggshells. There's kind of that feeling, and Trump, he tells a joke and doesn't back down. He says things that would normally been frowned upon. At a school, a kid would get expelled. Not that it's right or wrong, but he's sort of defending a lot of the things they've been attacked for in the last five years or so."

"It's an F-U to society, who is telling us we are a bad guy because we like hooking up with girls on spring break," he added. "And they see Trump sticking up for that."
 

Crocodile

Member
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/san...blacks-vote-hillary-because-of-brand-loyalty/

I think one thing that comes up with a lot of Sanders surrogates is Obama disappointment or even hate, sometimes subtle and sometimes not so subtle, and I think there's a share of Sanders supporters (and a larger share of Sanders voters who aren't necessarily supporting him) that feel the same about Obama. Clinton constantly hugging Obama tightly, and Obama and the White House repeatedly going to her defence must have really gotten to them.

Nina Turner has been an awful surrogate for Sanders IMO. I dunno if she approached him or he approached her but I swear whenever I hear her speak, it feels like she's a bit detached from reality. That is to say she's drunk a bit too much of the Kool-Aid. She strikes me as from the same/similar school of thought as Cornell West and honestly, if your aim is to appeal to the Obama coalition, I don't think that's the best well to be tapping.


Real talk? While this is 100% a negative stereotype applied against Black people, its also a REALLY common joke within the Black community. Its a joke that has been made like 5213532512 times within my family and among my Black friends to describe other Black people (or occasionally ourselves). I honestly feel you will find more non-Black people offended by the joke on behalf of Black people than actual Black people offended by the joke.

Still the skit was awkward & silly and I probably would have just avoided making that sort of joke but this is a whole lot of nothing.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Mountain out of a molehill. It's very clearly a joke to make you think DeBlasio is going there but then she saves him because he's a "cautious politician."

But sure yeah Bill DeBlasio huge racist

deBlasio will be fine. Dude's got like 90% support among african-american voters in the city for a reason, I imagine this will get blown up a bit because that's how the NY press is but it won't do much to his support.

Real talk? While this is 100% a negative stereotype applied against Black people, its also a REALLY common joke within the Black community. Its a joke that has been made like 5213532512 times within my family and among my Black friends to describe other Black people (or occasionally ourselves). I honestly feel you will find more non-Black people offended by the joke on behalf of Black people than actual Black people offended by the joke.

Still the skit was awkward & silly and I probably would have just avoided making that sort of joke but this is a whole lot of nothing.

This is how I expect most people to react. Everyone knows he's like the least racist dude in the city.
 
That's a pretty wild distortion. You really think that those of us who are non-interventionist wouldn't have responded to an overt attack on US soil by another nation?

Not wanting to engage in nation-building doesn't mean not having a national defense.

Again, this is isolationist, which I disagree with. The idea is that attacks on people are attacks on each of us in a global community. I strongly dislike the idea that "Wait, no Americans got killed? Fuck it" is a valid foreign policy. The U.S. contributes an insane level of global defense precisely because of the size of our country's military. That comes with a bit of responsibility. Obviously this means caution should be exercised at all costs, but I legitimately believe that if a nation started rolling over borders somewhere (NK over SK, for example), Bernie Sanders would be talking about keeping US troops here and ignoring the conflict. That's fine if you're a nation like Denmark or Sweden, but I think our allies would take a bit of an issue with that if we just said "Fuck you, got mine" in that case.


This guy makes a lot more money than I do, I'm sure. That makes me particularly sad.
 
This guy makes a lot more money than I do, I'm sure. That makes me particularly sad.

you may be pleased to learn that huffington post columnists are kind of like "forbes contributors", in that they don't actually make money off the site

e: actually the forbes contributors actually do make a bit of money (from unique pageviews). huffpost don't give them shit
 

Slayven

Member
Nina Turner has been an awful surrogate for Sanders IMO. I dunno if she approached him or he approached her but I swear whenever I hear her speak, it feels like she's a bit detached from reality. That is to say she's drunk a bit too much of the Kool-Aid. She strikes me as from the same/similar school of thought as Cornell West and honestly, if your aim is to appeal to the Obama coalition, I don't think that's the best well to be tapping.



Real talk? While this is 100% a negative stereotype applied against Black people, its also a REALLY common joke within the Black community. Its a joke that has been made like 5213532512 times within my family and among my Black friends to describe other Black people (or occasionally ourselves). I honestly feel you will find more non-Black people offended by the joke on behalf of Black people than actual Black people offended by the joke.

Still the skit was awkward & silly and I probably would have just avoided making that sort of joke but this is a whole lot of nothing.
Name one Sander's surrgate that hasn't put their foot all the way in their mouth?
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I don't think its a big deal at all.

My reaction was more of a "lol wow I can't believe she was okay to do this"

The whole point of the dinner is to make the mayor look like an idiot and make jokes at his expense. It's like the correspondent's dinner only in reverse.

Still interesting that they're looking at changing it. I have to imagine it wouldn't even go into effect until the next time around anyway.

If they're going to do it I'd also let the WFP vote in the Dem primary and the Cons party vote in the GOP while they're at it, if only because they're affiliated with each other anyway. Registered independents can suck it though, if you don't want to be bothered then you don't get a say.
 
you may be pleased to learn that huffington post columnists are kind of like "forbes contributors", in that they don't actually make money off the site

e: actually the forbes contributors actually do make a bit of money (from unique pageviews). huffpost don't give them shit

Thank God.

And the online crowds seem a lot more subdued now. Not too many ridiculous comments under that article anymore. A few Bernie supporters mentioning how crazy that outline is. I think it's sort of sinking in.
 

Holmes

Member
No way Cuomo even signs that bill. And the New York legislature is in session until Wednesday and then they have a break.

I feel like "we're beating expectations" is doublespeak for "no one thought we would win, and we aren't".
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
No way Cuomo even signs that bill. And the New York legislature is in session until Wednesday and then they have a break.

I feel like "we're beating expectations" is doublespeak for "no one thought we would win, and we aren't".

It won't even make it to his desk.
 
i don't recall ever seeing much in the way of outreach from nina turner when she was my state senator

so it figures that she's a surrogate for the presidential candidate who doesn't give a shit about that
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
i don't recall ever seeing much in the way of outreach from nina turner when she was my state senator

so it figures that she's a surrogate for the presidential candidate who doesn't give a shit about that

I'm still confused as to why a former state senator has been hyped up so much. Did she do something big while in the state senate?
 

Boney

Banned
Nina Turner has been an awful surrogate for Sanders IMO. I dunno if she approached him or he approached her but I swear whenever I hear her speak, it feels like she's a bit detached from reality. That is to say she's drunk a bit too much of the Kool-Aid. She strikes me as from the same/similar school of thought as Cornell West and honestly, if your aim is to appeal to the Obama coalition, I don't think that's the best well to be tapping.



Real talk? While this is 100% a negative stereotype applied against Black people, its also a REALLY common joke within the Black community. Its a joke that has been made like 5213532512 times within my family and among my Black friends to describe other Black people (or occasionally ourselves). I honestly feel you will find more non-Black people offended by the joke on behalf of Black people than actual Black people offended by the joke.

Still the skit was awkward & silly and I probably would have just avoided making that sort of joke but this is a whole lot of nothing.
I find Nina amazing. Her appearance at the last town hall with Harry Belafonte was amazing. They do push against Obama because they're hardcore progressive, and it's the same thing why they push against Hillary, they're not 100% behind a centrist government and a are pushing for their more progressive positions. I love hearing it and it does a great job at rallying up Sanders core crowd, but it's arguably that it doesn't actually help win centrists for the election. But as you guys say, it's less about the horse race and it's more about pushing the issues and policies.

Dr West doesn't mince his words but he's right on the money calling out Obama and Hillary. Will it push away more conservative status quo voters maybe, but it does t make him delusional or whatever perojative you guys wanna label him with. His line about Hillary being the Milli Vanilli of American Politics is gold.
 
I find Nina amazing. Her appearance at the last town hall with Harry Belafonte was amazing. They do push against Obama because they're hardcore progressive, and it's the same thing why they push against Hillary, they're not 100% behind a centrist government and a are pushing for their more progressive positions. I love hearing it and it does a great job at rallying up Sanders core crowd, but it's arguably that it doesn't actually help win centrists for the election. But as you guys say, it's less about the horse race and it's more about pushing the issues and policies.

Dr West doesn't mince his words but he's right on the money calling out Obama and Hillary. Will it push away more conservative status quo voters maybe, but it does t make him delusional or whatever perojative you guys wanna label him with. His line about Hillary being the Milli Vanilli of American Politics is gold.

So you're saying you believe Clinton is an unqualified fake? Because that's what Milli Vanilli were.
 

Maledict

Member
Dr West has been a terrible surrogate for Sanders. He's done absolutely nothing at all to help him with AA, and indeed there's an argument to be made that says he's hurt him. West is an extremist who called Obama a republican . That is NOT how you get the support of the AA community who by the large love Obama.

It'#s not even about conservatism, the guys a freaking nutjob - and he doesn't have the sole rights to determine who is a progressive and who isn't. there are lots of progressives supporting Clinton - and lots of conservative democrats supporting Sanders.
 

pigeon

Banned
Again, this is isolationist, which I disagree with. The idea is that attacks on people are attacks on each of us in a global community. I strongly dislike the idea that "Wait, no Americans got killed? Fuck it" is a valid foreign policy. The U.S. contributes an insane level of global defense precisely because of the size of our country's military. That comes with a bit of responsibility. Obviously this means caution should be exercised at all costs, but I legitimately believe that if a nation started rolling over borders somewhere (NK over SK, for example), Bernie Sanders would be talking about keeping US troops here and ignoring the conflict. That's fine if you're a nation like Denmark or Sweden, but I think our allies would take a bit of an issue with that if we just said "Fuck you, got mine" in that case.

To be honest, I doubt this would happen, because I don't see any reason to assume Sanders has sufficient knowledge and control to prevent the military-industrial complex from just doing whatever it feels like doing. That is actually my primary problem with Bernie Sanders when it comes to foreign policy -- the history of the last thirty years should show that it's not sufficient just to not be pro-war to keep America from getting involved in foreign conflicts. You need to have a coherent and clearly articulated foreign policy, and adhere to it at all times, in order to keep the Pentagon from pushing for war until it gets war. It is very easy to produce casus belli and advocate to the White House that America must act immediately. It is much harder to explain why we must not, and to continue standing up for that position in the face of internal and external opposition.

Basically, I think America is a big rock on a hill, and war is at the bottom of the hill. (And the hill is the defense department and intelligence apparatus, who are both filled with people who are intelligent, motivated, and convinced that America should intervene more in world affairs, otherwise they wouldn't be running the defense department and intelligence apparatus.) Just saying you don't want to go to the bottom of the hill will not solve your problem. You need to have a clear idea for where you want the rock to be and then you need to spend a bunch of time and effort keeping the rock in that place. Otherwise, gravity wins.
 
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