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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
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has anyone ever pressed him for examples?
benicillin
Banned
Totally fair to criticize them over that. Never said it wasn't. I just think that posting dumb meme shit that comes from who-knows-where doesn't add much to the conversation other than to rile people up.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
and no, it's not some pro Hillary movie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_(organization)
This was actually a question at the debate last week. They wanted him to bring up a specific instance.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Yes, and he's failed every time to say anything. He was called out on it at the debate, where he struggled through the question to name a specific thing Hillary has done to show her corruption.
When asked again about it in an interview, he was unable to name anything.
User 463088
Banned
At the last debate, and he couldn't do it. Then CNN gave him another chance on Sunday, and he couldn't do it then either. Because, like Hillary said, it doesn't exist.
No one thinks it came from his campaign. However, some of Bernie's supporters have been one of the biggest detriments to his campaign. That type of shit gets posted on Reddit and Twitter daily. It's trash, and his campaign is feeding into this shit because it brings in $$$.
No. I'm not the person you think I am.
I don't consider myself a democrat. I have voted 3rd party in the past.
I see the differences between the parties. They are significant. Doesn't change the fact that the dems treat the poor the same way republicans treat religious conservatives. Pay lip service during campaigns, and then go to work for their real bosses on wall street as soon as they get elected.
Bernie doesn't play that game. Which is one of the the the things that puts him outside the mainstream. I'm personally glad to also be outside that mainstream. It is a club I wouldn't want to be a part of.
Captain Pants
Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
I got into it with a guy on reddit a few months ago over this. One of his reasons for hating Hillary was 'because she caused Citizens United'.
benicillin
Banned
Reddit and Twitter are both trash though, they always have been and would be even without Bernie. I dunno I don't really care either way people can post whatever they like I just don't think it adds much to the conversation other than to rile people up about random shitheads online.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Oh my god, I thought I was the only one who had to deal with that. Some inane junk about how if Hillary wasn't such an awful person CU wouldn't have felt the need to put out ads and eventually sue, or just dribble like that.
The mental gymnastics were something to behold.
so how so?
Hillary tickles the underside then moves on
Bernie whispers things in your ear and gives a full on hand job right up until completion and then walks away.
Both haven't and won't do anything until completion, but sure, Bernie talks a big game about bullshit
User 463088
Banned
Because this has been Bernie's shtick the entire campaign. You hint at something. You say something MUST be true, even if it isn't, especially because it's impossible to prove a negative. This is his "artful smear" that he's engaged in since he started not doing as well as he thought he should.
It's what he did when he was losing the Vermont governor's race too. He did almost the exact same thing. He called the woman he was running against unqualified and corrupt.
I don't think Hillary should release her speech transcripts if there's any chance they hurt her in the GE. I don't really care if she gave a pep talk to bankers, doesn't mean much.
Bernie supporters shouldn't want her to release them either at this point, there's no reason to be math-stupid and pretend like Bernie has any chance in the primary.
Bernie supporters shouldn't want her to release them either at this point, there's no reason to be math-stupid and pretend like Bernie has any chance in the primary.
User 463088
Banned
Here's the thing:
Let's say that I concede the point that Bernie is the only person that actually cares about poor people. (I don't buy that, not for a second, but for sake of argument...)
What has all of his passion and moral rightness gotten us in the 30 years we've been paying his salary? How are we closer to single payer healthcare because of him? How are we closer to fixing our "corrupt campaign finance system" because of him? How are we close to "free" college because of him? Why do we suddenly think he is going to be able to build consensus for these huge things when he's essentially been a backbencher for 30 years.
Let's say that I concede the point that Bernie is the only person that actually cares about poor people. (I don't buy that, not for a second, but for sake of argument...)
What has all of his passion and moral rightness gotten us in the 30 years we've been paying his salary? How are we closer to single payer healthcare because of him? How are we closer to fixing our "corrupt campaign finance system" because of him? How are we close to "free" college because of him? Why do we suddenly think he is going to be able to build consensus for these huge things when he's essentially been a backbencher for 30 years.
Captain Pants
Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
This was worse because this person thought that the Hillary movie at the center of the case was something that she produced, and not something made by her opposition. I make mistakes pretty often, and I'm definitely not as well informed as I want to be, but this was just some next level dumbness.
I was speaking from the point of view of voters in general, not myself personally. I was making a critique of how her campaign has dealt with the messaging on the topic.
But I guess anybody who comes in here and doesn't include "all hail the queen" in their post is assumed to be an ignorant BernieBro who's ruining the party or some shit. I swear pigeon is like the only regular here who still seems able to carry a discussion without it turning into condescending staw men.
User 463088
Banned
Only once?
GO BACK AND DO IT AGAIN.
Don't worry about going to jail. She's going too! Ya'll can be cellies. I mean, obviously, she's going to make you her bitch, but.....still.
that is not how it works in here. We have bernie people in this thread.
Las7
Melk
OrangeBlueGray
A Human Becoming
Aaron Strife
We get along just fine.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I don't know if he wants to go back after his time served from stealing Justin Bieber DVDs.
VendettaRed07
Member
lol, like they haven't already ditched Warren. She gets nothing but constant shit posts and called corrupt for not endorsing Bernie.
Serious question: point out to me how the Democrats have helped Wall Street at the expense of the poor in the last 8 years.
Butts-a-plenty
Banned
Calls a pouring in from New York. One guy isn't registered as a Dem and says he is going to request a provisional ballot based on a pending lawsuit...Good luck...
Oh yes, the miraculous ruling from the judge this morning that will make this primary an open election. They are actually waiting for the Attorney General to show up at the court room (no kidding).
If they pull this through it will be a miracle most probably due to the endorsement of the pope.
This is the judge presiding: Sandra Feuerstein She is a republican, nominated by George W bush, and from Vermont.
FUCK?
blackaroni
Member
How likely is it that McCain loses his seat in AZ? I see that him and Kirkpatrick are tied in the polls now.
With the voter ID laws in Arizona? Gonna say that gives him the edge, but idk
User 463088
Banned
Cruz is also not in New York today.
When Queen voted, she told the cameras to turn away because "This is a secret ballot." XD
When Queen voted, she told the cameras to turn away because "This is a secret ballot." XD
blackaroni
Member
Aw shit. Voter ID laws is the main things that frightens me for the GE.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Obviously, Hillary can't vote for herself. She's a Republican.
The whole thing was never predicated on evidence to begin with, so Bernie constantly failing to produce any doesn't change the mind of anyone who was buying into it before.
And if someone's argument is "You can't prove that her secret backroom deals don't exist! No one knows about them; that's why they're secret!", then there's really nowhere to go from there. They don't need facts to make up their mind.
BotoxAgent
Member
I don't think she will. Bernie is clearly losing and will eventually lose. He has no bargaining power or political leverage at this point, he's just slinging mud. She may later if she has to, but certainly not on his terms.
Outdoor Miner
Member
Tulsi Gabbard is a beautiful woman. Same age as me. Guys I think I have a new queen.
It really just depends upon if Trump or Cruz is the nominee and how badly they bring down the down ballot races in lean red states. It's frustrating not knowing what the general election will look like in late April.
fixed that for you.
i_am_ben
running_here_and_there
User 463088
Banned
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Have we seen any Indiana polling yet?
Also, Sam Stein reporting that Paul Manafort is now officially in charge of Trump's campaign. $20 million spending budget.
anecdotal but someone on another forum I frequent said his grandfather was polled in IN. Don't know the pollster though.
I wouldn't even necessarily call myself a "Bernie person." I'm voting for him, but I don't buy into cult of personality stuff and he wouldn't be my first choice (a third Obama term would be).
And still, nobody has addressed the actual point I made. Which was when you have people like Barney Frank making ridiculous statements like "I don't know of anybody who's vote has been impacted by Wall Street donations," then even if you believe most democrats have a problem with money in politics (and I do), their messaging to voters contradicts that.
Everything related to free trade. For starters.
Obama's fighting real hard to send even more of our jobs overseas, even though he knows the republicans won't let him do anything to help the people hurt by those losses.
And I love the top-down republican style economic recovery he engineered. The rich get richer while wages continue to stagnate in our new Walmart based economy, and Obama declares victory.
Or how about a healthcare system that's basically corporate welfare for insurance companies, and actually makes it more difficult to ever get single-payer, because now all the politicians involved in passing it are wedded to it, and they don't want anymore "contentious" fights with republicans on that subject in the future.
And then there's all the little things: the fights they never wage, the subjects that never come up.
I don't really know what you expect them to do. Their position is one of pragmatism, i.e
we don't like money in politics, but under the current system we need money to compete. However, if they say that, it will be twisted into "Democrats are corrupt and in the pocket of Wall Street" by people who want to push that agenda.
cartoon_soldier
Member
And there's the reality you never understand.
Single payer wasn't going to happen. Public Option even didn't happen. Not because of Obama. Sanders doesn't govern the Congress and Senate.
Attacking Obama for passing Obamacare, which has insured 20 million more people which would be even higher if SC hadn't said Medicare expansion is optional for state by some liberals is the most asinine disgusting thing I have seen this election cycle. Absolutely fucking ridiculous. No Democratic President has been able to get Healthcare reform passed and instead of celebrating the achievement that is Obamacare these people are acting like the tea party cry babies.
We don't want a liberal version of the tea party. That is harmful too.
Most of the problem people have with money in politics is the GoP side. The Koch brothers buy local elections with a high success rate and it pollutes the House and local governments.
As for Barney's statement I can't validate that either way, but the Dems only try to raise big money because you have to now.
Every serious study I have ever seen shows that free trade is a net benefit for all involved, including America. Cheap mass manufacturing jobs are never coming back, it's simply far too expensive compared to countries like Vietnam or Bangladesh.
Wages have grown slowly because unemployment was so high when he took office. He's brought unemployment down from almost 10% to below 5%. That is necessary before wages start to grow properly. Simple supply and demand explains it: the higher unemployment, the easier it is to replace people. The easier to replace people it is, the less bargaining power they have for wage rises. The economy has recently seen its fastest six-month rate of wage increases since the recovery began, so actually now that unemployment has fallen significantly the wage situation is improving.
The ACA was passed because it was the best thing that could be passed. If you wanted better at the time, blame the Supreme Court. Now, it's not the case that politicians are simply avoiding being "contentious", but that the republicans control the house and it'll take a miracle to change that. Unless the Democrats take back the House, no sweeping changes can be passed.
Care to lodge any allegations which stand up to actual economic and factual scrutiny?
EDIT: Addendum on health care. Roberts and Kennedy crossed over to defend the ACA. However, reading their arguments and looking at their history of rulings and comments, the chances of them supporting a federal universal healthcare bill are zero.
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