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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN

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I wouldn't even necessarily call myself a "Bernie person." I'm voting for him, but I don't buy into cult of personality stuff and he wouldn't be my first choice (a third Obama term would be).

And still, nobody has addressed the actual point I made. Which was when you have people like Barney Frank making ridiculous statements like "I don't know of anybody who's vote has been impacted by Wall Street donations," then even if you believe most democrats have a problem with money in politics (and I do), their messaging to voters contradicts that.

You know what Democrats did in 2010 mid-terms? They ran against money in politics especially Koch brothers. They got slaughtered at the polls. And all these fucks now concerned about money in politics DID NOT SHOW UP TO VOTE.

Democrats don't want the Citizens United ruling to stand either. FUCK, Obama criticized the Supreme Court in the SOTU right in front of the justices. You know what would overturn CU? A democratic SC. For that we need to elect a democrat in 2016 AND Also win the Senate.

Guess which candidate is doing more to support Senate candidates running in competitive races? Hint, IT'S NOT FUCKING BERNIE. Hell, Bernie doesn't even want Hillary to do it going by their recent suggestion that the joint victory fund is illegal or when he has sued DNC (because his fucking staff stole campaign data).

So, FUCK BERNIE, FUCK WEAVER. The sooner he loses and goes back to being a Senator from Vermont with NO actual accomplishments and retires the happier I will be.

Don't ban me Y2K

Care to lodge any allegations which stand up to actual economic and factual scrutiny?

There are None. It's the Bernie playbook. Insinuate corruption, don't prove shit.
 
I dont feel like doing work in office. Im sitting and watching youtube videos about chicxulub impact, the asteroid that wiped out the dinos.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
CgaL3E5UkAAQHMX.jpg


http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/fir...ig-apple-n558216?cid=sm_twitter_feed_politics
 
Obama's top down recovery? He should have sharply raised taxes or come up with some other unpopular national program and lost to romney, who would by now be trumpeted as the new reagan for the unemployment rate and be cruising to an easy victory in 2016 and have nominated a frothing conservative to replace scalia with zero opposition from the senate who would be upholding citizens united for decades.

Pragmatism in politics has its place. The recovery you want from Obama never came not because he doesn't want to give it to you, it's because republicans aren't interested in giving Obama an inch on anything.
 
Obama's top down recovery? He should have sharply raised taxes or come up with some other unpopular national program and lost to romney, who would by now be trumpeted as the new reagan for the unemployment rate and be cruising to an easy voctory in 2016 and have nominated a frothing conservative to replace scalia with zero opposition from the senate who would be upholding citizens united for decade.

Pragmatism in politics has its place. The recovery you want from Obama never came not because he doesn't want to give it to you, it's because republicans aren't interested in giving Obama an inch on anything.

Romney would be hailed as a hero for replicating the same results as Obama. That is true. The Romney Hype train from the GOP would be off the charts right now.
 

Along the same lines, re: Sanders' struggles with black voters. Told in a series of tweets.

https://storify.com/hodgesmr/who-are-the-democratic-party


Sanders' outreach to black voters mostly failed. 'Killer' Mike Render was supposed to persuade...who exactly? Church ladies? And Cornel West? There is not another African-American intellectual more associated with disdain for President Obama than he is. If you wanted to persuade black voters who are proud of Obama that they should vote Sanders, Dr. West is the *last* person you'd choose. West & Render didn't convince black voters to choose Sanders, but they did convince progressive whites not to worry about black support.

Misplaced faith in Sanders' black surrogates kept many white supporters from understanding his electoral weakness outside white districts. This led to much bafflement, especially among young progressives. How could black citizens *not* want the revolution Sanders is selling?

Here's how: Sanders voters, mostly white, are broadly disappointed with Obama. Black voters do not share that sentiment. (To put it mildly.) Black citizens are twice as likely to say 'the country is headed in the right direction' as whites are. Asked if they expect their family finances to improve or worsen in the next 6 months, only 20% of whites say Improve. 60% of blacks do. It's almost as if black citizens have a different experience of life in America than whites.
 

KingK

Member
I don't really know what you expect them to do. Their position is one of pragmatism, i.e
we don't like money in politics, but under the current system we need money to compete. However, if they say that, it will be twisted into "Democrats are corrupt and in the pocket of Wall Street" by people who want to push that agenda.
I know, I don't really have an answer. I initially was just hoping to spur some discussion about how to improve the messaging and tactics on this issue because I think it's important and there doesn't seem to be a great answer. But instead people ignored my point and set up a straw man to chastise.

Honestly, I think they should try going for the more honest response about pragmatism you mentioned. Like you said, it's definitely not ideal, but neither is their current response, which can already be twisted in negative ways and downplays a very real issue. Do you think people really believe when they're told donations have no influence? Not to mention it seems kind of silly to campaign on reversing citizen's United only to then deny that any of the issues with it are real issues. It just seems like the most glaring weak spot for a republican, but especially one like Trump, to exploit in the general.
 
I know, I don't really have an answer. I initially was just hoping to spur some discussion about how to improve the messaging and tactics on this issue because I think it's important and there doesn't seem to be a great answer. But instead people ignored my point and set up a straw man to chastise.

Honestly, I think they should try going for the more honest response about pragmatism you mentioned. Like you said, it's definitely not ideal, but neither is their current response, which can already be twisted in negative ways and downplays a very real issue. Do you think people really believe when they're told donations have no influence? Not to mention it seems kind of silly to campaign on reversing citizen's United only to then deny that any of the issues with it are real issues. It just seems like the most glaring weak spot for a republican, but especially one like Trump, to exploit in the general.

The current DNC view is let's get a Democratic SC, then we can have them overturn CU decision. Show me which current Democratic party member has denied money in politics is not an issue.
 

Drek

Member
I dont feel like doing work in office. Im sitting and watching youtube videos about chicxulub impact, the asteroid that wiped out the dinos.

Allegedly wiped out the dinos, FYI. Don't fall in love with the Alvarez Hypothesis propaganda machine. The extinction patterns that would match with the bolide collision theory only account for roughly 60% of the total K-Pg extinctions. It was likely a contributing factor but other elements had to be in play for the loss of life evidenced by the fossil record.

Also, the K-Pg is fucking snoresville. 75% species diversity death? Meh. The Permo-Triassic was in the low to mid 90% range. Planet-wide devastation only recovered from thanks to select strains of aquatic life.
 

CCS

Banned
I know, I don't really have an answer. I initially was just hoping to spur some discussion about how to improve the messaging and tactics on this issue because I think it's important and there doesn't seem to be a great answer. But instead people ignored my point and set up a straw man to chastise.

Honestly, I think they should try going for the more honest response about pragmatism you mentioned. Like you said, it's definitely not ideal, but neither is their current response, which can already be twisted in negative ways and downplays a very real issue. Do you think people really believe when they're told donations have no influence? Not to mention it seems kind of silly to campaign on reversing citizen's United only to then deny that any of the issues with it are real issues. It just seems like the most glaring weak spot for a republican, but especially one like Trump, to exploit in the general.

I don't really see what it gains them though. Let's say they just say "We take money because we need to." Are people who think the Democrats are corrupt likely to accept that, or take it as justification for their views and become even less likely to support the Democrats?

This is where Sanders unintentionally makes things worse. People will look at him and ask why other Democrats need to take money. The fact is there just aren't enough people to "crowdfund" all the money every democrat needs.
 
I think it's laughable at this point that Bernie continues to insinuate that Hillary Clinton is bought by corporate interests and big money, despite there being no evidence, when we have evidence that the NRA and those against gun regulations have had an influence on his vote.

I actually have a question about this.

In a debate with a Facebook friend, I asked him about some examples of Hillary Clinton being bought by special interests and he came back with this:

"Supplying military weapons manufactured by Boeing, Lockheed and Raytheon, who are big time donors to her campaign and Clinton foundation. And the buyers are people like the Yemeni, Qatari and UAE. Who are also contributors.

Those countries are ALL on human rights watch organization lists. About half of the Yemeni weapons have ended up in the hands of Houthi rebels.

"...Oh and duetchbank and sberbank, both foreign banks that have contributed or paid for speeches from Hillary and which are implicated in the Panama papers as laundering money and tax evasion.

Sberbankmay be involved in operations to move the assets of Russian citizens with current sanctions as a response to crimea."


So... is this criticism legit? Or is it just smoke and mirrors?
 
Allegedly wiped out the dinos, FYI. Don't fall in love with the Alvarez Hypothesis propaganda machine. The extinction patterns that would match with the bolide collision theory only account for roughly 60% of the total K-Pg extinctions. It was likely a contributing factor but other elements had to be in play for the loss of life evidenced by the fossil record.

Also, the K-Pg is fucking snoresville. 75% species diversity death? Meh. The Permo-Triassic was in the low to mid 90% range. Planet-wide devastation only recovered from thanks to select strains of aquatic life.
Well, I just saw a discovery science video where they recreate the impact in a lab setting, and they did conclude that the dust and debris that got ejected likely blocked out the sun. That plunged the earth into 3 year darkness. Also the age of rocks in the impact zone through testing was found to be 65m years, same time when dinos are thought to be gone extinct.
 

KingK

Member
Most of the problem people have with money in politics is the GoP side. The Koch brothers buy local elections with a high success rate and it pollutes the House and local governments.

As for Barney's statement I can't validate that either way, but the Dems only try to raise big money because you have to now.

Obviously the GOP is worse because they embrace this shit with open arms, but come on with that partisan stuff. Money in politics plays a huge role for both parties, democrats are not magically immune to the influence of money. They're just more receptive to public pressure because their voting base isn't as naturally supportive of corporate friendly policies.
 

stupei

Member
My polling location was as empty as it ever is in the morning when it's not a Presidential election day.

There was a strategically placed Bernie sticker on a post exactly across the street from the location. I laughed.

I'm like the only person in my office wearing the "I Voted" sticker even though a few other people did in fact vote. What losers for not taking pride in these ugly stickers! (The New York ones are just especially bad, I think.)
 

ampere

Member
Obviously the GOP is worse because they embrace this shit with open arms, but come on with that partisan stuff. Money in politics plays a huge role for both parties, democrats are not magically immune to the influence of money. They're just more receptive to public pressure because their voting base isn't as naturally supportive of corporate friendly policies.

Kinda have to be partisan when one side is trying to prevent women and LGBT people from having equal rights and crush worker's unions!

The point is that there is bigger election buying money available on the GoP side, so getting rid of CU will benefit Dems much more.
 
Art Laffer: Still smoking crack.

Laffer said he believes Trump and Cruz are underselling the benefits of their tax plans, which he said could bring in “massive revenue increases” to the federal Treasury by speeding up growth and boosting incomes across the board. “We’ll have growth rates faster than we had in the '60s or the '80s,” he said — potentially as high as 5 percent per year for at least four years.

He stuck to that prediction in the interview, guessing that Cruz or Trump could win “45 states” in the general election, because Democrats Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are both pushing economic plans that include tax increases.

Also, can some dumbass journalists ever correct these people for a moment?

Asked about polls showing Trump and Cruz trailing Democrats in a hypothetical matchup, he said he was not concerned: In 1980, he noted, Ronald Reagan trailed badly in polls, too.

Because of the rally around the flag effect at the beginning of the Iranian hostage crisis! ARGH

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ent-actually-loves-donald-trump-and-ted-cruz/
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Along the same lines, re: Sanders' struggles with black voters. Told in a series of tweets.

https://storify.com/hodgesmr/who-are-the-democratic-party

That's a pretty good summation, but since I hate twitter articles, I formatted it for everybody (you can thank Jquery):

Senator Sanders' campaign holds a lesson for future political movements: National. Liberal. White. Pick two. This has taken a while to sink in. Per @docrocktex26, many people assumed the Obama coalition was temporary... https://storify.com/docrocktex26/when-racism-gets-in-socialism … ...and that after Obama, a Democrat could still win with mostly white voters. This mistake was made easier by the electoral calendar. Sanders did well in IA (5th whitest state), leaving him only 2 delegates behind. Then he won NH (4th whitest) and was up by 4. (Shoutout to @RBStalin, the only person I know adequately outraged by lily-white First In The Nation elections.) Then Nevada, nearly a tie. Then South Carolina. For all the twists & turns since, SC was the end of the tie. Sanders down by 26. Never ahead again. Never close.

The Sanders' camp had always known they'd have a problem with black voters, but 6-1 against? That wasn't a loss. It was a rebuke. The broad rejection of Sanders by a core (_the_ core) Democratic constituency has caused the campaign some distress, and a hunt for answers. Sanders talked about doing better w/black voters outside the "Deep South", but that meant 2-1 against, at best. It cost him MO, IL, and OH. Sanders says his dismissal of the South rests on the fact that those voters are the most conservative. But that 'fact' isn't one. Idaho & Wyoming are far more conservative than Georgia & Texas. Virginia & Florida have been Blue since '08. Even if only Blue states counted, Sanders would still be behind. The only region whose disappearance would leave him ahead is...the South. Sanders gets this. Given a chance to complain about conservative or Red states, he's instead repeated his dismissal of Southern Democrats.

The only way he'd be leading is if black Democrats in populous Blue states mattered less than white Democrats in sparse Red ones. Southern Democrats--of whom black voters have the highest turnout--are essential. They gave us Obama, twice, via Virginia and Florida wins. Sanders' mistake was a common one: Believing he could get the white working class to vote Democrat again. This is the Thomas Frank version of history, where Democrats abandoned their natural constituencies, including white blue-collar workers. But the Democrats didn't abandon whites in the working class. Whites abandoned the Democrats. The Civil Rights Act triggered their exodus. The most vitriolic departed in '64, then '68 for Wallace's segregationist vision. Finally, the 'Reagan Democrats' abandoned Carter in '80.

For half a century, white voters have had a choice between a party offering economic help but no racial flattery, or flattery but no help. And in every election since 1964, a majority of whites opted for the party telling them white people are special, but minimum wage is a trap The idea of white workers returning to the fold if Democrats talk to them about economics is a persistent fantasy. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...dential-politics-grossman-20160215-story.html … Even now, the biggest disagreement in policy preferences between working class whites & Dems remains 'Aid to Blacks' http://www.salon.com/2015/11/29/the..._its_really_allergic_to_voting_for_democrats/ … Those voters are not coming back. 1980 was a long time ago. 'Reagan Democrats' are just Republicans. http://pcl.stanford.edu/research/2012/iyengar-poq-affect-not-ideology.pdf …

Meanwhile, Sanders' outreach to black voters mostly failed. 'Killer' Mike Render was supposed to persuade...who exactly? Church ladies? And Cornel West? There is not another African-American intellectual more associated with disdain for President Obama than he is. If you wanted to persuade black voters who are proud of Obama that they should vote Sanders, Dr. West is the *last* person you'd choose. West & Render didn't convince black voters to choose Sanders, but they did convince progressive whites not to worry about black support.

Misplaced faith in Sanders' black surrogates kept many white supporters from understanding his electoral weakness outside white districts. This led to much bafflement, especially among young progressives. How could black citizens *not* want the revolution Sanders is selling? Here's how: Sanders voters, mostly white, are broadly disappointed with Obama. Black voters do not share that sentiment. (To put it mildly.) All that 'Deep South' theorizing runs aground on this fact: black citizens approve of the President, and want a continuation of his policies Black citizens are twice as likely to say 'the country is headed in the right direction' as whites are. http://www.theharrispoll.com/politics/Economic-Pessimism-at-its-Highest-Point-This-Year.html … Asked if they expect their family finances to improve or worsen in the next 6 months, only 20% of whites say Improve. 60% of blacks do. It's almost as if black citizens have a different experience of life in America than whites.

Sanders' assertion that black voters would be persuaded "once they get to know me" was obtuse and futile, and worse, it was ethically weak. White liberals should be *really wary* about holding any conviction that requires us to close our ears when black people are talking. If it was still the 20C, targeting mostly white voters might have been a winning strategy, as the loss of those voters was such a blow. White abandonment, especially by Southerners, cost the Democratic party 5 out of the 6 presidential elections between 1968 and 1988. But it's not the 20C any more, and the Democrats have figured out how to win elections, even with 60% of whites consistently against them. The Democrats have now won the popular vote 5 times in the 6 elections since 1992. (Gore got more votes than Bush in 2000.) The glory of the Democratic party in 2016 is that it looks like America ca. 2046. They've figured out how run in the country we're becoming. Imagining a mostly-white path to the Democratic nomination was never a good idea. Let's hope we're witnessing the last time anyone tries it.
 

Drek

Member
Well, I just saw a discovery science video where they recreate the impact in a lab setting, and they did conclude that the dust and debris that got ejected likely blocked out the sun. That plunged the earth into 3 year darkness. Also the age of rocks in the impact zone through testing was found to be 65m years, same time when dinos are thought to be gone extinct.

It was almost definitely a causal factor, but likely coincided with a period of already increased volcanic activity, reducing habitable zones substantially further.

Basically, no bolide and you have a minor extinction series that may or may not have proceeded into a larger extinction event on it's own, but the bolide likely forced the event into fruition while also shortening the time window for the kill off substantially (making it much more dramatic from a geological perspective, as the strata is well confined to a narrow band).
 

KingK

Member
I don't really see what it gains them though. Let's say they just say "We take money because we need to." Are people who think the Democrats are corrupt likely to accept that, or take it as justification for their views and become even less likely to support the Democrats?

This is where Sanders unintentionally makes things worse. People will look at him and ask why other Democrats need to take money. The fact is there just aren't enough people to "crowdfund" all the money every democrat needs.

Maybe you're right. They would gain a level of authenticity on the issue though, I would think, as long as it's accompanied by an explanation of what they're planning to do about it. If you think money is corrupting politics, it might be nice to hear that stated, even if the messenger admits to needing to play the game until they can change it. I think this primary on both sides has shown that a lot of people across ideologies are (rightly, imo) angry with money in politics and real/perceived corruption. They're not going to be convinced with being told that it's not a real issue.
 
Along the same lines, re: Sanders' struggles with black voters. Told in a series of tweets.

https://storify.com/hodgesmr/who-are-the-democratic-party

Sander's looked like he had a way of thinking that is similar to Republicans in a sense that if you get black people to support and run with you that black voters will start to vote for you.

I think Sander and many of his backers thought is message will naturally appeal to black voters because they are a poor racial group.
 

KingK

Member
Kinda have to be partisan when one side is trying to prevent women and LGBT people from having equal rights and crush worker's unions!

The point is that there is bigger election buying money available on the GoP side, so getting rid of CU will benefit Dems much more.
I definitely agree with that.
 

Krowley

Member
Every serious study I have ever seen shows that free trade is a net benefit for all involved, including America. Cheap mass manufacturing jobs are never coming back, it's simply far too expensive compared to countries like Vietnam or Bangladesh.

Wages have grown slowly because unemployment was so high when he took office. He's brought unemployment down from almost 10% to below 5%. That is necessary before wages start to grow properly. Simple supply and demand explains it: the higher unemployment, the easier it is to replace people. The easier to replace people it is, the less bargaining power they have for wage rises. The economy has recently seen its fastest six-month rate of wage increases since the recovery began, so actually now that unemployment has fallen significantly the wage situation is improving.

The ACA was passed because it was the best thing that could be passed. If you wanted better at the time, blame the Supreme Court. Now, it's not the case that politicians are simply avoiding being "contentious", but that the republicans control the house and it'll take a miracle to change that. Unless the Democrats take back the House, no sweeping changes can be passed.

Care to lodge any allegations which stand up to actual economic and factual scrutiny?


EDIT: Addendum on health care. Roberts and Kennedy crossed over to defend the ACA. However, reading their arguments and looking at their history of rulings and comments, the chances of them supporting a federal universal healthcare bill are zero.

I promise you that my state, which was very dependent on textile jobs, was better off before NAFTA. A lot better off. There are a lot of people here who had the rug pulled right out from under them, and nobody has done shit to help them.

I'm not necessarily arguing that we can really wind the clock back, but something needs to be done to help the communities that got hit the hardest. Republicans won't allow that, so why are we continuing to push new free trade policies? Even the tech industry outsources huge amounts of work now. There are college graduates all over America living with their parents working at McDonald's. It's not okay. And we need to put a halt to any further expansion in that direction right now. We need a more protectionist policy going forward. Because eventually new industries will arise, and we need to make sure those industries employ American workers.

As for everything else you're saying, it's obvious that we are both looking at the very same facts and seeing different explanations.

If you want to keep believing that the Democrats are doing the best they can in a difficult situation, you can go ahead and believe that. Personally, I think they're losing a lot of these fights on purpose. They put up just enough resistance to keep up appearances, and then roll over.

This is of course speaking in general terms. There are individual Democrats that I admire plenty. Hillary is not one of them. I've been critical of Obama, but I would take him over Hillary if he could run again..

But, at the end of the day, I would take Hilary over the republicans.

Anyway, I'm not gonna argue any further with you guys. I've avoided getting entangled in any deep argument in this thread because I know pretty much everybody in here disagrees with me, and nobody is going to change their mind, so it is a pointless argument to wage.

Also, if I continue to argue, I'll have the whole thread pouncing on me, then I'll lose my temper, get banned... I've seen this happen before about 5 times since the primary started. I've avoided that fate so far, and I'm not going to get suckered into it now.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
I promise you that my state, which was very dependent on textile jobs, was better off before NAFTA. A lot better off. There are a lot of people here who had the rug pulled right out from under them, and nobody has done shit to help them.

...nd we need to put a halt to any further expansion in that direction right now. We need a more protectionist policy going forward. Because eventually new industries will arise, and we need to make sure those industries employ American workers.

The problem with being protectionist in any industry is that it leads to the first part of your statement, that when the industry becomes irrelevant, the people are left out in the cold. It is far wiser to have a more educated, more nimble and flexible workforce than it is to artificially prop up any one industry too much.

I don't disagree that people whose factory jobs are gone should be assisted, but the way to do it is not to force the factory to stay open, instead offer education and opportunity for people to move to other industries. And for that both Republicans and Democrats need to work together which has been nearly impossible for the past decade. Especially at state levels (and South in particular) where Republicans control mostly everything and are gutting education and assistance programs in general.
 

Plumbob

Member
I promise you that my state, which was very dependent on textile jobs, was better off before NAFTA. A lot better off. There are a lot of people here who had the rug pulled right out from under them, and nobody has done shit to help them.

I'm not necessarily arguing that we can really wind the clock back, but something needs to be done to help the communities that got hit the hardest. Republicans won't allow that, so why are we continuing to push new free trade policies? Even the tech industry outsources huge amounts of work now. There are college graduates all over America living with their parents working at McDonald's. It's not okay. And we need to put a halt to any further expansion in that direction right now. We need a more protectionist policy going forward. Because eventually new industries will arise, and we need to make sure those industries employ American workers.

As for everything else you're saying, it's obvious that we are both looking at the very same facts and seeing different explanations.

If you want to keep believing that the Democrats are doing the best they can in a difficult situation, you can go ahead and believe that. Personally, I think they're losing a lot of these fights on purpose. They put up just enough resistance to keep up appearances, and then roll over.

This is of course speaking in general terms. There are individual Democrats that I admire plenty. Hillary is not one of them. I've been critical of Obama, but I would take him over Hillary if he could run again..

But, at the end of the day, I would take Hilary over the republicans.

Anyway, I'm not gonna argue any further with you guys. I've avoided getting entangled in any deep argument in this thread because I know pretty much everybody in here disagrees with me, and nobody is going to change their mind, so it is a pointless argument to wage.

Also, if I continue to argue, I'll have the whole thread pouncing on me, then I'll lose my temper, get banned... I've seen this happen before about 5 times since the primary started. I've avoided that fate so far, and I'm not going to get suckered into it now.

There's no rolling back the clock on free trade. Protectionism is misguided, and will hurt the economy more than it helps.

I agree more needs to be done to assist the losers of free trade. But those mid-skill textile and manufacturing jobs aren't coming back.
 

CCS

Banned
Maybe you're right. They would gain a level of authenticity on the issue though, I would think, as long as it's accompanied by an explanation of what they're planning to do about it. If you think money is corrupting politics, it might be nice to hear that stated, even if the messenger admits to needing to play the game until they can change it. I think this primary on both sides has shown that a lot of people across ideologies are (rightly, imo) angry with money in politics and real/perceived corruption. They're not going to be convinced with being told that it's not a real issue.

Maybe, you could see what they're currently doing as the safer option compared to having a discussion. I'm happy to admit I don't know for certain what the best course is until we can get Citizens United overturned, but it's a difficult situation and I find it hard to be angry at the way they're handling it. You make a valid argument though.

And Krowley, thank you for your contribution and apologies for being rather rude, I must confess. I guess my relative distance allows me to look at things in a more impersonal fashion, which isn't necessarily the best way to do it. I took exception to your initial post, but I think that's more because it doesn't reflect the complexities of your argument than anything. I don't agree with you on trade, but if you dont want to continue to discuss it that's fine :)
 
Sander's looked like he had a way of thinking that is similar to Republicans in a sense that if you get black people to support and run with you that black voters will start to vote for you.

I think Sander and many of his backers thought is message will naturally appeal to black voters because they are a poor racial group.

yeah, who would have thought Killer Mike wasn't a good replacement for Obama? lol
 

studyguy

Member
Saw those pictures and Hillary sitting down with The Breakfast Club crew, I thought she turned them down. Seems her interview is going up Monday. Crazy.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BEOqD1PzNb9/

I need to see this fuckery

Who would have guessed so much stupidity would have come from a simple interview, and to think I was looking forward to it. I would have expected Charlemagne to make some dumb Bill joke or some other equally tasteless joke at Hillary's expense, but HOTSAUCE. Fucking give me a break. I can't handle this level of stupidity.
 
Remember, if you're a hot sauce Truther, you are literally as stupid as Donald Trump.

Donald Trump has some thoughts about Hillary Clinton saying she carries hot sauce in her bag: She’s “phony” and “pandering.”

The real estate mogul was asked on "Fox & Friends" on Tuesday about an interview Clinton did with a hip-hop station's radio show in New York where she said that she carries hot sauce in her purse (Clinton has long been known as a hot pepper aficionado). The hosts then said she'd be criticized for "pandering" to the African-American vote. "Is it working?" Clinton asked, laughing.

“It's the same thing she always does. She carries hot sauce like I carry hot sauce. It's just, I don’t know so phony, and so pandering and so terrible,” Trump said before adding, “I think, you know, frankly, I think Bernie probably has a decent chance to win. It won't matter. Then they'll say, it doesn't matter because she's — look, it's a crooked system.”

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...016/04/hillary-clinton-hot-sauce-trump-222125
 
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