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PoliGAF 2016 |OT5| Archdemon Hillary Clinton vs. Lice Traffic Jam

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I was surprised Hillary got all the major cities of NY except for Albany, to be honest. Particularly Monroe County (Rochester). It's possible that students couldn't vote because they didn't register to the local county or they couldn't reach polling station. RIT is in the middle of nowhere because they thought it would be a splendid idea to build the ROCHESTER Institute of Technology campus outside of Rochester.

Cheap land. Hernietta is a wasteland of wetlands. RIT can't even add more parking lots because the land is so poor, it's cost prohibitive to drain the wetlands so the foundation for the lot is secure. Or least that was the excuse they gave.

Monroe County is probably one of the most moderate left leaning counties in the entire state. We're like as vanilla, politically, of an area as you could possibly find. Although ironically we end up being a major unsung area for a lot of issues like women's rights, racism and even occupy wallstreet. Rochester had one of the longest running and active OWS groups in the entire country. Louise Slaughter is also one of the more liberal house members, also from this area.

And nobody seems to notice our booming tech industry, while the cost of living stays down. While other tech areas struggle with obscene costs of living, we quietly sit here with our great growing industry while the cost of living actually continues to go down. You'd also assume an area where the biggest employer, who employed 70% or so of the population goes under, it would destroy the entire city. Not here though. It's as if Kodak never even existed, we've just kept on chugging along.
 
I like lotteries. There's a push to get one going here in MS since we're so damn bankrupt (fuck Bryant).

And my brother just got into the Ph.D program for physics at RIT. So I'll be there checking the town out when we help move him in :D
 

fantomena

Member
Btw, I keep hearing that a shitload of people didn't get to vote in NY and that you had to be registered as democrat long time ago to vote for a democrat. Is this true?
 
Btw, I keep hearing that a shitload of people didn't get to vote in NY and that you had to be registered as democrat long time ago to vote for a democrat. Is this true?

You had to be a trusted Democrat in October to be able to vote.

The area with the body purge was win by Clinton by 20%. If those people had been able to vote it would have favored her.
 

fantomena

Member
You had to be a trusted Democrat in October to be able to vote.

The area with the body purge was win by Clinton by 20%. If those people had been able to vote it would have favored her.

Yes, and its problematic.

But it didn't change the outcome.

Well that's some antidemocratic crap. For being such "open and democratic" country you are really not so democratic.

I mean seriously? What kind of fucked up rules are that? You should be able to vote for whoever you want on the election day without having to be registered before.
 
I've got a few Trump supporters in the family, and they'll all leave the box blank and just vote down-ticket (if they go at all) if Trump isn't the nominee. They held their noses for Romney, but since he lost, it's a given that Kasich would lose too. Since he'll lose anyway, if he's at the top of the ticket, they're going to send a message to the party that they could've avoided this had they picked Trump.

Basically, if you're the party, you have to choose between 1) Trump, and you get blown out, but send a message to your irrational base that they're wrong about what the majority wants or 2) Not-Trump (doesn't matter who), and you kick this can down the road and deal with it again in 2020.

They'd be idiots to pick 2). They were idiots to do it with Romney. Should've sacrificed some Tea Party guy to Obama's second term (burn his incumbent advantage on a loser anyway) and then try to take the WH now against a non-incumbent.

I honestly do think a lot of the GOP were considering kicking the can down the road. Then Scalia went and died.

But I take the "I won't vote for the GOP nominee if it isn't Trump" people only slightly more seriously than the "I won't vote for the Democratic nominee if it isn't Bernie" people. Sure, there are some. Sure, some of the are probably going to follow through with it. But for the most part, I don't think we'll see a huge change from any other given year. People who care enough to vote usually end up voting for their party's nominee. It's easy to say you won't vote for Kasich when Trump is on the ballot. It's harder when it's just Hillary.

Anyway, there are likely just as many #NeverTrump anecdotes as there are people who won't vote in November of its stolen from him.

I do think I agree with your last point, though. If the GOP could've somehow blown a Trump or Cruz run last time, they'd be in a better position this year.

Edit: oh goody, fantomena is back.
 
Well that's some antidemocratic crap. For being such "open and democratic" country you are really not so democratic.

I mean seriously? What kind of fucked up rules are that? You should be able to vote for whoever you want on the election day without having to be registered before.

You can vote on election day without being registered to a party. On November 8th, 2016.
 

PBY

Banned
Well that's some antidemocratic crap. For being such "open and democratic" country you are really not so democratic.

I mean seriously? What kind of fucked up rules are that? You should be able to vote for whoever you want on the election day without having to be registered before.

Yeah, I agree. Also the US is definitely not open and democratic lol, we are great, now and historically, at disenfranchising people.
 

gcubed

Member
Well that's some antidemocratic crap. For being such "open and democratic" country you are really not so democratic.

I mean seriously? What kind of fucked up rules are that? You should be able to vote for whoever you want on the election day without having to be registered before.

Primaries are not "open and Democratic". They are party tools to decide who they want to represent them in the " open and Democratic " elections.
 

Teggy

Member
Well that's some antidemocratic crap. For being such "open and democratic" country you are really not so democratic.

I mean seriously? What kind of fucked up rules are that? You should be able to vote for whoever you want on the election day without having to be registered before.

Why should you be able to influence the Democratic party nominee if you are not a member of the party?
 
"Man, you guys sure fail to meet the standards I'd require you to meet in order to qualify under these adjectives that I've decided to say you all claim to be."
 

PBY

Banned
Primaries are not "open and Democratic". They are party tools to decide who they want to represent them in the " open and Democratic " elections.

I agree. But I also think you should be able to register for said party on election day and vote.

More voting > less.
 
Btw, I keep hearing that a shitload of people didn't get to vote in NY and that you had to be registered as democrat long time ago to vote for a democrat. Is this true?
Register as a Democrat = problem solved. Stay Registered as Democrat forever then you wouldn't have trouble.

unless you want to switch to Republican to vote for LOL Trump.

Independents who want to float around between ideological purity, the center, weave n bob Left and Right need to realize that Party Primaries are organized to select a Party Nominee.
Naturally it is preferably that one be a Party Registered Voters; and not the opposing Party's Registered Voters (avoid Operation Chaos).

If it was all Open, then Republicans could engage in massive Operation Chaos on the Democratic Primaries.
 
Well that's some antidemocratic crap. For being such "open and democratic" country you are really not so democratic.

I mean seriously? What kind of fucked up rules are that? You should be able to vote for whoever you want on the election day without having to be registered before.

Why should you be able to influence the Democratic party nominee if you are not a member of the party?

Teggy's point is the best response for this. Saying that primaries should require no commitment to the party is like saying other people get to decide who the RNC/DNC chair is. It's silly. If you aren't a Democrat, you should get no say in what Democrats do. Same for Republicans.

You can vote without concern in the public election in November. But not in a party's primary, in my opinion.
 

gcubed

Member
Well then the DNC has made some pretty terrible antidemocratic rules imo.

The whole primary process on both sides is not and has never feigned to be open and Democratic.

Can we stop with this bullshit foreign feigning ignorance, "oh your democracy isn't democratic democracy democracy out my ass"

I agree. But I also think you should be able to register for said party on election day and vote.

More voting > less.

I'm just mentioning what's here and now, not what should be. October is ridiculous yes. I'm not terribly opposed to a closed primary especially in special cases like NY where the GOP is so outnumbered that any kind of push from somewhere else can drown out the actual will of republican voters since there are so few
 

Effect

Member
I mean during the nominations.

The nominations are held by the political parties though. They have their own rules on how their nominees are selected. The general election in November has it's own rules that are more open and fair and designed by the Congress. That is why you have may 3rd party candidates on the ballots. Why you can vote whoever you want regardless of party.
 
The whole primary process on both sides is not and has never feigned to be open and Democratic.

Can we stop with this bullshit foreign feigning ignorance, "oh your democracy isn't democratic democracy democracy out my ass"

Especially when you compare how they pick their party leaders.
 
A: "I think it's pretty undemocratic that the person who wins American Idol doesn't get to sing the Super Bowl Half time Show."

B: "Er, those things are only tangentially related."

A: "Wow, for a country that love to claim it supports good singers and direct democracy, you guys sure are bad at it."
 

fantomena

Member
Register as a Democrat = problem solved. Stay Registered as Democrat forever then you wouldn't have trouble.

unless you want to switch to Republican to vote for LOL Trump.

Independents who want to float around between ideological purity, the center, weave n bob Left and Right need to realize that Party Primaries are organized to select a Party Nominee.
Naturally it is preferably that is be Party Registered Voters who vote; and not the opposing Party's Registered Voters (avoid Operation Chaos)

But why do you have to register as democrat so long before the nomination election?
 
But why do you have to register as democrat so long before the nomination election?

because it is not a General Election. It is a Party nomination of the Party.

You don't want Republicans sabotaging the Democratic Primaries with Operation Chaos now, do ya?

Even though I am an advocate of Reverse Operation Chaos of enabling Trump to win the Republican Nomination
 

Maledict

Member
Well then the DNC has made some pretty terrible antidemocratic rules imo.

It's not a democracy. I don't think any other western country does this.

Seriously. Party members choose their leaders. The UK doesn't have open primaries. France doesn't have open primaries. Germany doesn't have open primaries. The USA probably goes TOO far in allowing random folks to vote to be honest.

You are setting up a completely impossible to reach standard that doesn't exist anywhere else on the planet in order to justify losing a state badly that every poll showed sanders losing badly for the last six months.

He lost because New Yorkers prefer Hillary, and the because the majority of voters int he primary prefer her.
 

gcubed

Member
because it is not a General Election. It is a Party nomination of the Party.

You don't want Republicans sabotaging the Democratic Primaries with Operation Chaos now, do ya?

Even though I am an advocate of Reverse Operation Chaos of enabling Trump to win the Republican Nomination

In New York it is fully the opposite. Democrat voters would easily be able to drown out any republican voters and STILL have a healthy amount of votes in the Democratic primary
 

fantomena

Member
because it is not a General Election. It is a Party nomination of the Party.

You don't want Republicans sabotaging the Democratic Primaries with Operation Chaos now, do ya?

Even though I am an advocate of Reverse Operation Chaos of enabling Trump to win the Republican Nomination

What if you can't decide before october which party, are you left out then?
 

Hindl

Member
What if you can't decide before october which party you want to vote for in the nomation, are you left out then?

The October deadline is for switching parties. If you are unregistered, the deadline to register Democrat was in March, a month before the primary
 
Getting tired of non-Americans decrying the 'undemocratic' primaries and America's lack of true progressivism when they live in countries that still tolerate monarchies, even if they are purely ceremonial.
 

fantomena

Member
The October deadline is for switching parties. If you are unregistered, the deadline to register Democrat was in March, a month before the primary

Ah ok, that makes more sense.

Getting tired of non-Americans decrying the 'undemocratic' primaries and America's lack of true progressivism when they live in countries that still tolerate monarchies, even if they are purely ceremonial.

I agreed with this.

Btw, Im against the monarchy just for sake of mentioning.
 
Ryan Struyk ‏@ryanstruyk · 41s42 seconds ago Priebus to applauding RNC: "We aren't going to hand the nomination to anyone with a plurality, no matter how close they get to 1,237."

Ohhhhhh Trump just got some good news
 
Im not American, is it very bad that Im asking question to understand the process better?

"Man, it sure is bullshit that America has a yearly purge. What a shitty ass system. And you guys call yourselves a civilized and progressive nation!"

...

"Oh, you mean there isn't a purge? What's the problem? I'm just trying to learn!"

Next time you don't know something about the process, start with the question asking. Don't lead off with the condemnations of an entire system you're admittedly ignorant of.
 
as a Canadian myself, our political parties are more closed when it comes Leadership Conventions. And they are way way more closed when it comes to Party Conventions which includes Leadship Reviews.

They can set up the convetnion dates whenever they want. They can change the rules on how to vote whenever they want. They can decide on voting methods. They can make them open, semi-open or closed. (they are mostly closed)

On The Liberal Party of Canada's Leadership Convention of 2013 was semi-open and it was done on purpose to propel their chosen (Trudeau) one to have a guaranteed win.


The NDP in Canada (the Left Wing Party) just had a Leadership Review at their latest Party Convention after losing last October's Election. It was a closed Convention. The NDP party members voted at 48% in their Confidence of their current Party Leader automatically stripping him as status as Party Leader. Like that, they have kicked out their leader and will be forced into a Leadership Convention whenever they feel like it

The Conservative Party of Canada will have their own Leadership Convention in the coming years and it will be a one weekend event and it will be closed to card carrying members of the Conservative Party of Canada

God Bless Justin Trudeau

Heck, when there is only ONE person wanting to take over or decides to make a take over; members can kick out a sitting Leaders and Coronate a new leader
 
But why do you have to register as democrat so long before the nomination election?


What if you can't decide before october which party, are you left out then?

The October deadline is for switching parties. If you are unregistered, the deadline to register Democrat was in March, a month before the primary

This answers it. Signing up only took a month's heads-up, which isn't much to ask if you care to vote in a primary.

Getting tired of non-Americans decrying the 'undemocratic' primaries and America's lack of true progressivism when they live in countries that still tolerate monarchies, even if they are purely ceremonial.

Yeah, I legit can't fathom monarchies. Like, stuff like inheritances are kind of icky here (where Sam Walton's grand kids are richer than some countries), but that's at least built on something that the original guy earned fairly and legally. But monarchies creep me out. It's wealth earned at the tip of a sword 800 (or more!) years ago, and shouldn't be a thing that tax dollars pay for.
 
"Man, it sure is bullshit that America has a yearly purge. What a shitty ass system. And you guys call yourselves a civilized and progressive nation!"

...

"Oh, you mean there isn't a purge? What's the problem? I'm just trying to learn!"

Next time you don't know something about the process, start with the question asking. Don't lead off with the condemnations of an entire system you're admittedly ignorant of.

This is how he's approached literally every "curiosity" about the U.S.
 
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2 questions: Does both parties have superdelegates and why do they exist?

No, only the Dems do. It's a mechanism to prevent a Trump candidate from hijacking the party, and it also forces candidates to work with other Democrats, which helps form a coalition among them. They usually pick the pledged delegate winner. I can guarantee that the GOP wishes they had some supers right now.
 
I mean, people do realize that parties in most countries don't have open elections for people to pick party leader, right? Why does the US get ragged on so much for this?

Party leaders in most countries aren't selected by a primary process, but rather party members. David Cameron wasn't elected via a national open primary to select the Conservative leader...
 
I wonder if Cruz's obsession with spanking his five year old could be used by a better politician.

"Cruz constantly is thinking about how little girls could be raped and is constantly touching his little girl's behind, makes a man wonder."
 
2 questions: Does both parties have superdelegates and why do they exist?

Depends on what you mean by Superdelegates. Both parties have delegates that are Party leaders who automatically get seats at the table, however in the Republican party they are pledged to vote as their states do, while in the Democrat Party, they can vote however they want at the convention. The Democrats also have far more. They were added a a compromise when the modern primary system was still new. It used to be that only party leaders decided the nominee. As a movement grew to make the nominee be the one who wins primaries, superdelegates were added to placate party leaders who still wanted power to influence the decision.
 
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