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PoliGAF 2016 |OT6| Delete your accounts

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F

FunkyMunkey

Banned
i absolutely love how he cites those polls, comparing himself to hillary when he hasn't even begun to be microscoped

dude is a snake oil salesman plain and simple. going to go down as a raspy charlatan
 
B

Bowdz

Member
I seriously don't get his tactics if his goal is to shape the party platform. Antagonizing the entire party and the national frontrunner and expecting them offer you or acquiesce to anything is naïve. Barry-O's team in 2008 almost didn't even help out with Clinton's campaign debt because of the lingering acrimony. I don't see Clinton giving in to most if any of his demands at this point.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
Benchmark Politics ‏@benchmarkpol 31s32 seconds ago
If Sanders cannot win in a landslide in Oregon, he will not win California.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Bowdz said:
I seriously don't get his tactics if his goal is to shape the party platform. Antagonizing the entire party and the national frontrunner and expecting them offer you or acquiesce to anything is naïve. Barry-O's team in 2008 almost didn't even help out with Clinton's campaign debt because of the lingering acrimony. I don't see Clinton giving in to most if any of his demands at this point.
Click to expand...

After today, yeah she should not.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
nDec8KY.png


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Booing the democratic party, lol. too much.
 
T

Trouble

Banned
Is this the first speech where Bernie has directly attacked Trump? He needs to do more of that and less attacking Hillary and the party.
 
J

JP_

Banned
Bowdz said:
I seriously don't get his tactics if his goal is to shape the party platform. Antagonizing the entire party and the national frontrunner and expecting them offer you or acquiesce to anything is naïve. Barry-O's team in 2008 almost didn't even help out with Clinton's campaign debt because of the lingering acrimony. I don't see Clinton giving in to most if any of his demands at this point.
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It's not for him -- over 40% of democratic primary voters want his platform -- it's for them.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
JP_ said:
It's not for him, it's for the over 40% of democratic primary voters that want his platform.
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If only he really had 40%.

He has something like 20 to 30% and the rest are Not-Clinton or Not Obama voters.
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
To me the problem with Bernie isn't just a lack of policy details. It's that he has no political plan to pass any of his agenda. He just kind of expects Congress to bend to his will for no reason and without really building any relationships. This sort of thing was a big problem with the Carter presidency.
 
T

Teggy

Member
Oh god, the networks have decided not to pay for exit polls for the remaining primaries and s4p has decided that this is definitive proof of rigged elections.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
Valhelm said:
Barack Obama and Bill Clinton both led generally successful presidencies without being experts. Obama's campaign goals in 2008 ended up being quite different from his agenda as president, even before the GOP takeover of our legislature, because his political background didn't prepare him for the nuances of Washington politics. Nobody's can.

Even if Bernie Sanders is less qualified than his opposition, I'm of the opinion that his ideological bent overrides that. It's fine if you disagree.
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I'm not asking for a nominee to be an expert on everything but Obama instilled way more confidence and showed more policy depth in this candidate run than Sanders has IMO. Add to that I don't feel at all confident in his ability to pick good staff given what he has done so far in regards to staff, surrogate, etc. There are also some "attitude issues" (seeming lack of curiosity, inflexible to a fault, etc.) that The Technomancer brings up that also concern me.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Valhelm said:
Would you advocate that only persons with foreign policy experience become president? It's great that Hillary's been in this position, but most candidates don't have that luxury.



Elon Musk is a smart dude, but he works for his own success. He isn't overly concerned with the well-being of his workers, and his pursuit of science often isn't that scientific. Just look at his pie-in-the-sky pursuit of asteroid mining, which will make him very wealthy but not efficiently enrich our understanding of space. Somebody like Elon Musk can lead a company without using it as a framework to exploit those beneath him.



Why should so much power be held by people we didn't elect, and who don't care about our general well-being?
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People will have disproportionate power over others. It's literally not possible to correct for, and honestly, it shouldn't be. Capitalism has a lot of faults when unrestrained, but to your point, why should an engineer be paid what an entry-level worker is paid? Why should they bother considering a job offer from a company that's promising to cap the hell out of their salary instead of a job offer that won't?

Collectivism isn't a good plan for this stuff. It's great if you assume that management and the chain of higher-ups are useless, which means they should be paid what everyone else makes. But that's just plain not true.

Cesare Borgia said:
I largely agree. We tend to focus on the 30% or so of Sanders supporters who have a heavy presence online, will never vote for Hillary, and are largely a bunch of idiots. I'd expect most Sanders voters to vote for Hillary.

In terms of Sanders' legacy, I'd turn the question around and ask what is Ron Paul's legacy? How has Paul shaped the GOP? The answer is very little. There has been a liberal insurgent candidate in nearly every decade of democrat primaries. I see no reason to believe Sanders will have much of any impact on the party's future, or that his voters will sustain his "movement." Like Paul, they will largely sway between a variety of candidates whose only resemblance to Paul/Sanders is their anti establishment tone.

You've got to be a complete idiot with no ideological center to support both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump, or even Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders. Those people have always existed, but not in large numbers so I don't focus on them. In terms of the democrat party's future? Barrack Obama.
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Yeah, I don't get worked up about Sanders' legacy. Ask 1000 people on the street who lost to Bush in 2004, and see how many people know. Then, ask those people how many know who Kerry beat in that primary. I don't think you'd get that many correct responses.

Bernie isn't going down as some arbiter of the future. He'll be a footnote in college history books, and he won't even be mentioned in high school ones.

shinra-bansho said:
I'm all for progressive taxation, social safety nets and service provision, effectively regulated industries and workplaces, and so on and so forth.

But you're really not going to convince me that if I establish an enterprise based on personal entrepreneurial effort, you should get to turn it into a hippy commune.
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Same here. I believe in a large safety net for all essential services, but wants should be left to the market. If you want people to actually start more companies like SpaceX, you can't do that with collectivism.

Valhelm said:
Barack Obama and Bill Clinton both led generally successful presidencies without being experts. Obama's campaign goals in 2008 ended up being quite different from his agenda as president, even before the GOP takeover of our legislature, because his political background didn't prepare him for the nuances of Washington politics. Nobody's can.
Click to expand...

The Technomancer said:
Bernie's attitude is a larger problem to me than his inexperience honestly. Others have described him as "incurious" which I agree with, and which is bad in any sense and definitely bad when compounded with inexperience.
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Yeah, Valhelm missed the mark on Clinton/Obama here. They weren't experienced in foreign policy, but they were damn sure knowledgeable. They were both good policy wonks, and they made it clear that they were going to cover their gaps in experiential knowledge with learned knowledge. Both is preferable, but Sanders doesn't have either. His own staff is garbage (down to his surrogates), so I don't see any reason to trust his advisors either.
 
M

mackaveli

Member
Bernie's campaign is doing so well yet it's losing.

Like Bernie's whole speech is pretty much it's my way or the highway. Like Bernie doesn't even try and cater to Hillary voters at all.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
Bowdz said:
I seriously don't get his tactics if his goal is to shape the party platform. Antagonizing the entire party and the national frontrunner and expecting them offer you or acquiesce to anything is naïve. Barry-O's team in 2008 almost didn't even help out with Clinton's campaign debt because of the lingering acrimony. I don't see Clinton giving in to most if any of his demands at this point.
Click to expand...

Bernie lacks finesse. His argument is that staying in the race allows him a place to talk about the issues unique to his campaign, but as the campaign has veered away from ideology and more toward personality this is no longer happening. He's probably doing more harm than good by not dropping, because his stubbornness could actually taint mainstream attitudes toward his political goals.
 
M

mackaveli

Member
Without Superpac's how is Hillary suppose to compete with Billiionaire Donald Trump and the Billionaire's donating to them.

Like I wonder what Bernie thinks of Warren Buffett.
 
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