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[Deleted member 231381]

I think "going to the convention" when you've flat out last badly is pretty annoying. I hope they work something out behind the scenes quickly after June 7 where that does not happen.

I agree, but that's a two-person negotiation. I think it's better for both of them to get it done quickly; Sanders to avoid wasting more political capital and Clinton because she'll want to pivot. I imagine that one of Frank or Malloy will get booted, Sanders will scrape into having a veto on the rules system because he'll replace one, and that will be that. He'll go back to the budget committee, and his nominees will try and use their veto system to force the primaries into being more open, so that in the long-run outsider candidates do better. I can't see why both wouldn't agree with that. Sanders can sell it as a hard fought win against the corrupt Democratic elite that has nevertheless convinced him there's something redeemable there that his supporters ought to fight for so the next generation can go on, Clinton can sell it being willing to go above and beyond the call of duty in terms of concessions and why she's such a good unity candidate, and everyone wins.

Except Trump, thank God.

 

[Makai]

 

[NeoXChaos]

Adam you got your thread ready for next Saturday?

 

[Wilsongt]

So are HIV/AIDS activists now part of the establishment or paid and bought by Hillary?

Wait? Bernie is attacking Barney Frank now?

 

[Maledict]

I agree, but that's a two-person negotiation. I think it's better for both of them to get it done quickly; Sanders to avoid wasting more political capital and Clinton because she'll want to pivot. I imagine that one of Frank or Malloy will get booted, Sanders will scrape into having a veto on the rules system because he'll replace one, and that will be that. He'll go back to the budget committee, and his nominees will try and use their veto system to force the primaries into being more open, so that in the long-run outsider candidates do better. I can't see why both wouldn't agree with that. Sanders can sell it as a hard fought win against the corrupt Democratic elite that has nevertheless convinced him there's something redeemable there that his supporters ought to fight for so the next generation can go on, Clinton can sell it being willing to go above and beyond the call of duty in terms of concessions and why she's such a good unity candidate, and everyone wins.

Except Trump, thank God.

I really don't see this happening. Sanders has massively overplayed his hand, and the party is waking up to the fact that no amount of concessions will stop him saying and doing this stuff - it's better to just move on at this stage.

You don't get rid of Barney Frank as a co-chair. That would be a fucking disgusting betrayal of the party and a politician whose actually been fighting and achieving the things Sanders only talks about. It would seriously piss off the LGBT branch of the party and many activists in general.

And open primaries wouldn't help outside candidates - the only thing that helps outside candidates are caucus. If every single contest were an open primary Hillary would already have won.

 

[metalslimer]

So are HIV/AIDS activists now part of the establishment or paid and bought by Hillary?

Wait? Bernie is attacking Barney Frank now?

Bernie has never liked him after Barney shit all over his two-faced campaign

 

[FiggyCal]

Barney Frank, to be fair is on the board of directors for a bank. So his shitting on Bernie Sander's campaign is to be expected. He has his own interests to protect.

 

[Wilsongt]

Reddit is circle jerking all over Bernie's attack on barnie and Malloy. Not seen anything about the HIV/AIDS stuff

 

[shinra-bansho]

Barney Frank, to be fair is on the board of directors for a bank. So his shitting on Bernie Sander's campaign is to be expected. He has his own interests to protect.

Frank has held this opinion of Sanders for something like 2-3 decades.

Also, the insinuation that the underlying rationale can't be simply based on disagreement with Sanders, his policies, and the way he operates because BANKS is as junk as the stupid insinuation that a bunch of AIDS activists are bought and paid for by Gilead to not support Sanders.

 

[Chichikov]

Barney Frank, to be fair is on the board of directors for a bank. So his shitting on Bernie Sander's campaign is to be expected. He has his own interests to protect.

Braney Frank had a rather unfavorable view of Bernie Sander since the early 90s.
You can disagree with his criticism, but there's very little reason to believe this is related to the fact that he sit on Signature Bank board.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Frank has held this opinion of Sanders for something like 2-3 decades.

Also, the insinuation that the underlying rationale can't be simply based on disagreement with Sanders, his policies, and the way he operates because BANKS is as junk as the stupid insinuation that a bunch of AIDS activists are bought and paid for by Gilead to not support Sanders.

Yeah someone posted a news clipping from the 90s where Frank was complaining about Bernie .

Frank has always hated his view of politics and lack of desire to work with the party.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2016/04/11/history-barney-frank-bernie-sanders-criticize

History of Frank and Sanders.

 

[Plumbob]

For Donald Trump to be elected at this point, something catastrophic has to happen. Like millions of people voting for Trump.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Boy, Sanders MASSIVELY overplayed his hand the last few days. Man has become a total mark for himself, and worked himself into a shoot over all this. What a mess.

 

[Makai]

Barney Frank, to be fair is on the board of directors for a bank. So his shitting on Bernie Sander's campaign is to be expected. He has his own interests to protect.

To be frank, he has to protect his bank's interest (1% APY)

 

[Macho Madness]

So why are Republicans convinced that Hillary will get indicted for her email server?

Republicans?

 

[pigeon]

I agree, but that's a two-person negotiation. I think it's better for both of them to get it done quickly; Sanders to avoid wasting more political capital and Clinton because she'll want to pivot. I imagine that one of Frank or Malloy will get booted, Sanders will scrape into having a veto on the rules system because he'll replace one, and that will be that. He'll go back to the budget committee, and his nominees will try and use their veto system to force the primaries into being more open, so that in the long-run outsider candidates do better. I can't see why both wouldn't agree with that. Sanders can sell it as a hard fought win against the corrupt Democratic elite that has nevertheless convinced him there's something redeemable there that his supporters ought to fight for so the next generation can go on, Clinton can sell it being willing to go above and beyond the call of duty in terms of concessions and why she's such a good unity candidate, and everyone wins.

Except Trump, thank God.

I think this goes too far. Even if they replace Frank or Malloy, which I'm not convinced of, there's no way they let Bernie choose the replacement, so it'll just be somebody even more inimical to Bernie. They're not going to give Bernie a veto on the rules committee when he's playing crazy in negotiations. That would pretty clearly be bad game theory, he could do anything.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I think this goes too far. Even if they replace Frank or Malloy, which I'm not convinced of, there's no way they let Bernie choose the replacement, so it'll just be somebody even more inimical to Bernie. They're not going to give Bernie a veto on the rules committee when he's playing crazy in negotiations. That would pretty clearly be bad game theory, he could do anything.

In some fairness to Sanders, I don't think you can get more inimical to Sanders than Frank. As for whether they do it or not, depends on whether they think they need Sanders for the presidential or not. I genuinely think this is the last sticking point. If he can replace even just Malloy with someone, even a someone also acceptable to the Clinton campaign, I think that's it, he gives the concession speech and we all move on. It's what I'd be aiming for if I were him, so it must be right.

 

[teiresias]

I can't believe Devine hasn't bailed yet. It's one thing to be associated with a string of losing campaigns, it's another to be associated with a campaign that spiraled into attacking the party you've always worked for and burnt bridges with their elite and progressive leadership.

Maybe he's planning on completely retiring now. I wouldn't return his calls if he were looking to run a Democratic campaign in the future given this behavior.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Here's some upcoming caucus state convention chaos. Courtesy of Bernie Sanders:

May 28, 2016
Wyoming

June 4, 2016
Minnesota

June 18, 2016
Iowa
North Dakota
Idaho

June 19th, 2016
Washington

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I can't believe Devine hasn't bailed yet. It's one thing to be associated with a string of losing campaigns, it's another to be associated with a campaign that spiraled into attacking the party you've always worked for and burnt bridges with their elite and progressive leadership.

Maybe he's planning on completely retiring now. I wouldn't return his calls if he were looking to run a Democratic campaign in the future given this behavior.

IIRC he more or less had retired. I think his company is basically run by Longabough at this point, Devine was more or less an academic and came out of retirement essentially for the Sanders campaign.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Why is CNN inviting Pat Buchanan (a white nationalist Holocaust revisionist) to talk on their program about "disenfranchised white voters"?

 

[Wilsongt]

Why is CNN inviting Pat Buchanan (a white nationalist Holocaust revisionist) to talk on their program about "disenfranchised white voters"?

Look at what is in quotes.

 

[kadotsu]

Why is CNN inviting Pat Buchanan (a white nationalist Holocaust revisionist) to talk on their program about "disenfranchised white voters"?

Because CNN is opportunistic and their editorial has been entertainment and #hashtag focused. The "anti-establishment" brand is very hot right now so we're getting every fringe group on mass media right now. I wouldn't be surprised if they would give airtime to KKK representatives in the transgender debate (it's not a debate but for networks everything needs to be).

 

[User 463088]

Adam you got your thread ready for next Saturday?

No. But...I will. Maybe.
Set your expectations low people.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Buchanan called Trump "the great white hope" and said that "angry white male is one of the few slurs you can use today" so, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[pigeon]

In some fairness to Sanders, I don't think you can get more inimical to Sanders than Frank. As for whether they do it or not, depends on whether they think they need Sanders for the presidential or not. I genuinely think this is the last sticking point. If he can replace even just Malloy with someone, even a someone also acceptable to the Clinton campaign, I think that's it, he gives the concession speech and we all move on. It's what I'd be aiming for if I were him, so it must be right.

I think you sometimes get pretty game theoretical about what Sanders might want and don't necessarily do the analysis as to what Hillary might actually give him

Sanders can't credibly threaten to blow everything up unless he gets what he wants AND credibly promise to be trustworthy if he does get what he want. That's the entire point of madman theory, you can't actually do both of those things.

So it's not a question as to how much they need Sanders. Either he is too crazy to be given a veto over the rules committee or he's not crazy enough to get a veto over the rules committee. There's no actual middle ground.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Macho Bernie is more than likely to be non-viable in Virgin Islands. MS was 72% AA and she won it 84-16. Virgin Islands is going to be 76% AA or more.

 

[Wilsongt]

When even Bernie supporters are saying Bernie fucked up, you know Bernie fucked up.

Edit: and of course reddit waves it away by calling the activists Hillary Bots.

 

[Chichikov]

Buchanan called Trump "the great white hope" and said that "angry white male is one of the few slurs you can use today" so, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Had to google that, the (horrible horrible) piece ends with a Jess fucking Willard callback.
Yeah, I got a feeling it will end similarly well for Trump.
At least thanks to the 22nd amendment he ain't gonna lose to Kid Blackie like Willard.

 

[FloydtheFathead]

Buchanan called Trump "the great white hope" and said that "angry white male is one of the few slurs you can use today" so, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Well.. That's um.. Yeah.

 

[Abinash117]

I wonder if the DNC will compromise with Bernie. Either way giving what he wanted to a point was a bad idea, he'll just going to take it further and further.

 

[Bowdz]

I wonder if the DNC will compromise with Bernie. Either way giving what he wanted to a point was a bad idea, he'll just going to take it further and further.

I hope they don't do anything else. The past week has really shown us that Bernie is the green tea party incarnate and I don't want any of his crazy codified in the party. Let Bernie be crazy and just have Obama, Biden, and Warren ready to endorse after DC and shut Bernie out.

 

[Thequietone]

Give em a few months when the reality of a Trump presidency is staring at them, most of them will come around.

I just don't like it when they call me a racist for supporting Hillary. Apparently the only reason she is winning is because the racists in the South voted for her, not African Americans or other minorities, and I'm aligning myself with those racists, so therefore I'm racist.

 

[ampere]

I just don't like it when they call me a racist for supporting Hillary. Apparently the only reason she is winning is because the racists in the South voted for her, not African Americans or other minorities, and I'm aligning myself with those racists, so therefore I'm racist.

Oh, that's really weird. Calling you "establishment" would be expected, but the r card and you aren't even voting GoP? Just gotta shrug and walk away I guess

 

[Roland_Gunner]

In some fairness to Sanders, I don't think you can get more inimical to Sanders than Frank. As for whether they do it or not, depends on whether they think they need Sanders for the presidential or not. I genuinely think this is the last sticking point. If he can replace even just Malloy with someone, even a someone also acceptable to the Clinton campaign, I think that's it, he gives the concession speech and we all move on. It's what I'd be aiming for if I were him, so it must be right.

What evidence is there to support this? The Sanders campaign has shown no interest in compromising with the Democratic establishment. When the party tries to address his concerns, its gets shoved back in their face. Like giving Sanders the right to select committee members and have him pick Cornell "Obama is a Republican in blackface" West.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I wonder if the DNC will compromise with Bernie. Either way giving what he wanted to a point was a bad idea, he'll just going to take it further and further.

Sanders reminds me of a Tim O'Reilly's description of Bill Gates:

Microsoft gets a lot of heat for not leaving enough on the table for others. My mother, who’s English, and quite a character, once said of Bill Gates, “He sounds like someone who would come to your house for dinner and say, ‘Thank you. I think I’ll have all the mashed potatoes.’”

He isn't going to stop until he gets all the mashed potatoes.

 

[kirblar]

I wonder if the DNC will compromise with Bernie. Either way giving what he wanted to a point was a bad idea, he'll just going to take it further and further.

You can't compromise with a fanatic.

 

[Tamanon]

The whole concept of Bernie is built around compromise being a bad thing, so I fail to see why anyone would think his camp would be about compromise.

 

[Wilsongt]

rip dumb post

 

[SenorArdilla]

Bernie's campaign and supporters are getting more unpleasant the longer this drags on.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I can't believe Devine hasn't bailed yet. It's one thing to be associated with a string of losing campaigns, it's another to be associated with a campaign that spiraled into attacking the party you've always worked for and burnt bridges with their elite and progressive leadership.

Maybe he's planning on completely retiring now. I wouldn't return his calls if he were looking to run a Democratic campaign in the future given this behavior.

It kinda feels like he sort of has. We haven't heard from him in weeks/months.

 

[B-Dubs]

It kinda feels like he sort of has. We haven't heard from him in weeks/months.

He probably got pushed out of the inner circle after NY.

 

[excelsiorlef]

He probably got pushed out of the inner circle after NY.

Maybe.

 

[HylianTom]

At some point soon, it's going to be Hillary/Obama/Biden/the entire Senate (I can't see Senator Merkley abiding by much of this behavior)/etc vs.. the Bernie holdouts. The contrast will be striking. Those who want to Get Shit Done versus those who want to Scream Real Loud. It wouldn't surprise me to see some high-profile Bernie supporters publicly back away during weeks after California, making it clear that they're not down for a sabotage mission.

 

[B-Dubs]

At some point soon, it's going to be Hillary/Obama/Biden/the entire Senate (I can't see Senator Merkley abiding by much of this behavior)/etc vs.. the Bernie holdouts. The contrast will be striking. Those who want to Get Shit Done versus those who want to Scream Real Loud. It wouldn't surprise me to see some high-profile Bernie supporters publicly back away during weeks after California, making it clear that they're not down for a sabotage mission.

I'm starting to feel like the big guns should have come out against him a lot sooner. Like I wish Joe had run just so he could have put Bernie in his place.

 

[User 463088]

At some point soon, it's going to be Hillary/Obama/Biden/the entire Senate (I can't see Senator Merkley abiding by much of this behavior)/etc vs.. the Bernie holdouts. The contrast will be striking. Those who want to Get Shit Done versus those who want to Scream Real Loud. It wouldn't surprise me to see some high-profile Bernie supporters publicly back away during weeks after California, making it clear that they're not down for a sabotage mission.

Ya, but, see, then they're just corporate Democratic whores! There has never, ever been an iota of self reflection or self awareness from the Bernie campaign. I sure as hell can't see it starting now. I don't think it will matter an inch to Bernie if everyone abandons him. This whole thing is so sad on so many levels.

 

[HylianTom]

I'm starting to feel like the big guns should have come out against him a lot sooner. Like I wish Joe had run just so he could have put Bernie in his place.

I think the main thing keeping them from doing so right now is that they want to take away from Team Bernie the argument that they stepped-in before all of The People have had their say in this contest. As soon as voting is done and we enter that period between the last poll closing and the convention, I'm expecting these things to happen very rapidly.

Sucks that we've had to wait this long.

And I would've given anything to see Joe use a form of "a noun, a verb, and The Establishment" on Bernie. Hell, I would've loved to see Hillary say it. She'd already indicated that he was a one-note candidate; this would've been a memorable way to make it stick.

 

[Holmes]

https://twitter.com/60th_Street/status/736568008378855425

 

[Emarv]

I didn't even think about Biden vs Bernie. That would have been so great to watch.