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[royalan]

Hope you all watched Sanders on Bill Maher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9AwjZWboIk

Just like I predicted he would if the debate actually happened, he tore into Trump and called for Dems to unite against him in the GE -- he even refused to take the bait to attack Clinton over the recent email report.

I thought he was supposed to be a monster only exploiting the media attention to eviscerate Clinton and burn the Democratic party to the ground because he's only in it for his own selfish ego?? Weird.

I missed the part where this one interview served to refute the actions taken by his own campaign in the last few weeks.

 

[border]

Why is there nobody that will challenge Bernie on his bullshit in an interview?

It can't be that hard to point out that "Hey, you have massively benefitted from the very closed caucus nomination process" or perhaps ask "You're behind by 3 million votes, why do you think the election should be decided based on your national polling numbers against Trump?"

 

[NYCmetsfan]

. I would say that the election results would be very, very different in many states if all people in those states had a right to vote rather than just people who had registered in New York state months—was it six months—could we have won New York State? I don’t know, maybe not. I’ll tell you it would have been a hell of a lot closer

He still doesn't get why he lost the state. No it wouldn't have made it a "hell of a lot closer"

Living in VT so long has warped your view of how NYers see politics. This constant mantra in face of actual evidence is frightening and why I'm glad he's not going to be the leader of the free world

 

[campfireweekend]

yeah? As a bernie supporter and a millenial, please, generalize more

Yeah, I'm a millennial that doesn't support Bernie, and I also think that guy's attitude is trite "kids these days" bullshit.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I've been going back and forth for a while.

The nature of his campaign means he needs some type of outrage during times of loss to keep people going and donating. I think he's trying to scrap up what little support he has left in terms of donors and making the push for Cali, the only way to do that is to do what he's doing now, make a fit, get people riled up a bit and do the big push.

If he really wanted to damage Clinton he would have done it by now, he's had ample chance. He's going after small little hinki dinky things like committee chairs and stuff like that, doing interviews and using trigger words to get some of his base all up in arms and active.

California is his final push, his final chance to get some more leverage before the convention, if he fails there he knows a lot of what he thinks he has in terms of leverage will be gone.

Sanders is an asshole, but if he wanted to nuke the DNC he would have done it by now

Not necessarily, full on nuking the DNC right before California could actually hurt him, afterwards nothing to lose.


I don't know, I don't trust him. That's what it comes down to.

As for money you're right, which is why I said he's actually the one most subservient to monied interests, which is pretty hilarious if you think about it.

 

[JP_]

Ah he didn't say the magic words! People can't get context.

This is like the racial dog whistling that the right-wing did for so long. His supporters know what he's saying, what he's implying. But he can pretend "I didn't say that"

There's context, and then there's reading too much into things.

I mean, seriously. He didn't say it was stolen from him. He didn't even say he would have won. He said "I’ll tell you it would have been a hell of a lot closer."

 

[campfireweekend]

There's context, and then there's reading too much into things.

I mean, seriously. He didn't say it was stolen from him. He didn't even say he would have won. He said "I’ll tell you it would have been a hell of a lot closer." and he is right. The best you can do is be pedantic and make a fuss over how much closer it'd be.

Nate Silver estimated that if all the contests were converted to open primaries, Clinton would be even further ahead, so nope, not right, unless you have some counterfactual data.

 

[royalan]

Why is there nobody that will challenge Bernie on his bullshit in an interview?

It can't be that hard to point out that "Hey, you have massively benefitted from the very closed caucus nomination process" or perhaps ask "You're behind by 3 million votes, why do you think the election should be decided based on your national polling numbers against Trump?"

I like Bill Maher but he wouldn't be the person to expect that from. He's been on the Bernie train since day 1.

 

[blackw0lf]

Well, good thing he didn't say it was illegitimate.

When you tell your supporters that millions of your supporters were disenfranchised, and that the party had no intention of giving you a fair shot, you are essentually telling them that Hillary's nomination does not reflect the will of the voters. And is illegitimate.

If he's not aware that's the signal he's giving off, that's just more evidence he's not as self aware as he needs to be.

Seriously. If you don't want Trump to be President (which I believe you do), this should worry you.

That's why I'm so upset

 

[Holmes]

yeah? As a bernie supporter and a millenial, please, generalize more

All millenials are poopy faces who don't wear deodorant.

 

[User 463088]

He still doesn't get why he lost the state. No it wouldn't have made it a "hell of a lot closer"

Living in VT so long has warped your view of how NYers see politics. This constant mantra in face of actual evidence is frightening and why I'm glad he's not going to be the leader of the free world

Again, Bernie cannot fail. He can only be failed. He never, ever lost anything through any fault of his own. Everyone agrees with him on everything, and if he loses it's because fraud! DWS! Hillary! DNC! Like, he's not even subtle with it anymore.

 

[Y2Kev]

All millenials are poopy faces who don't wear deodorant.

truth

Bill was a shitheel last night and his show was unwatchable (I actually turned it off), but he's definitely on the "i'll vote for hillary" train.

I don't have a problem with strong Bernie supporters as long as he's in the race. And he is. They just have to vote for Hillary or they can go sniff farts.

 

[royalan]

Again, Bernie cannot fail. He can only be failed. He never, ever lost anything through any fault of his own. Everyone agrees with him on everything, and if he loses it's because fraud! DWS! Hillary! DNC! Like, he's not even subtle with it anymore.

You have been saying this months, but I really think it's time for people to realize how damn accurate this actually is. This really is Bernie.

 

[User 463088]

You have been saying this months, but I really think it's time for people to realize how damn accurate this actually is. This really is Bernie.

I keep saying it because I only have two original ideas.

This one, and my stance on the best way to contour dem cheek bones.

 

[Retromelon]

All millenials are poopy faces who don't wear deodorant.

truth

isn't there an early bird special at some buffet you two should be ruining

Spoiler

hillary voters are old joke

 

[HylianTom]

truth

Bill was a shitheel last night and his show was unwatchable (I actually turned it off), but he's definitely on the "i'll vote for hillary" train.

I don't have a problem with strong Bernie supporters as long as he's in the race. And he is. They just have to vote for Hillary or they can go sniff farts.

Preach.

===

And, in preparation for what's coming, @Nate_Cohn of the NYT has posted a video of the moment MSNBC declared Obama the presumptive nominee in 2008.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-rbr0MVtLM

isn't there an early bird special at some buffet you two should be ruining

Spoiler

hillary voters are old joke

Is it odd that I like "Hillary voters=old" jokes?

(now turning back to Decades TV - a Celebrity Bowling marathon is on, and I want to see if the Bob Newhart or the Earl Holliman episodes are shown!)

 

[User 463088]

isn't there an early bird special at some buffet you two should be ruining

Spoiler

hillary voters are old joke

Hey. Hey. Hey.

Don't knock the blue plate and early bird specials. I get applesauce AND rice pudding at no additional cost. That's like a savings of $1.29. In my day, that and a nickle would get you a bottle of pop, a movie ticket and a pop corn for your favorite lady/gent.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Ron must not be feeling the kinship anymore

Jesus Christ, when RON FUCKING PAUL is the one calling you out...

 

[Y2Kev]

I will say that if the networks that called Obama the presumptive nominee with pledged + supers do not do the same for Clinton I will call bullshit.

 

[B-Dubs]

I will say that if the networks that called Obama the presumptive nominee with pledged + supers do not do the same for Clinton I will call bullshit.

They will. Everyone is sick of the primaries at this point. The media wants to cover the big fight now.

 

[Y2Kev]

i dunno, I think "hillary the illegitimate nominee" is pretty interesting of a story.

 

[B-Dubs]

i dunno, I think "hillary the illegitimate nominee" is pretty interesting of a story.

More interesting that Clinton vs Trump? I don't think so.

 

[blackw0lf]

I will say that if the networks that called Obama the presumptive nominee with pledged + supers do not do the same for Clinton I will call bullshit.

Honesty I hope they don't. The sanders supporters will just say she's only winning because the superdelegates rigged the process

Make the nomination based on Hillary passing the pledged delegate majority, effectively eliminating sanders mathematically

Also Hillary should only declare victory when she passes the pledged delegate majority.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Preach.

===

And, in preparation for what's coming, @Nate_Cohn of the NYT has posted a video of the moment MSNBC declared Obama the presumptive nominee in 2008.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-rbr0MVtLM



Is it odd that I like "Hillary voters=old" jokes?

(now turning back to Decades TV - a Celebrity Bowling marathon is on, and I want to see if the Bob Newhart or the Earl Holliman episodes are shown!)

Goddamn Chris Mathews is amazing in that video.

 

[Holmes]

I will say that if the networks that called Obama the presumptive nominee with pledged + supers do not do the same for Clinton I will call bullshit.

They will. Journalists and political correspondents from multiple networks on twitter are putting supers into the mix. It would be weird if they suddenly didn't.

 

[User 463088]

Honesty I hope they don't. The sanders supporters will just say she's only winning because the superdelegates rigged the process

Make the nomination based on Hillary passing the pledged delegate majority, effectively eliminating sanders mathematically

Also Hillary should only declare victory when she passes the pledged delegate majority.

No. That's never been the standard by which we select the nominee. Super Delegates are part of the process. She has the right to call herself the nominee the moment she has 2383 delegates. That will probably be on the 7th when New Jersey closes. Bernie will be mathematically totally eliminated 3 hours later. There's no damage to be done by calling her the nominee at 9pm EST instead of 12am EST.

 

[Y2Kev]

Honesty I hope they don't. The sanders supporters will just say she's only winning because the superdelegates rigged the process

Make the nomination based on Hillary passing the pledged delegate majority, effectively eliminating sanders mathematically

Also Hillary should only declare victory when she passes the pledged delegate majority.

Why? She probably can't get there with just pledged. And Obama didn't either so it's pointless.

 

[B-Dubs]

Honesty I hope they don't. The sanders supporters will just say she's only winning because the superdelegates rigged the process

Make the nomination based on Hillary passing the pledged delegate majority, effectively eliminating sanders mathematically

Also Hillary should only declare victory when she passes the pledged delegate majority.

Oh please, Bernie doesn't get to change the rules just because he'd throw a fit. The rules are the rules. Once she hits the number she's the nominee. That's just how it works. The 2383 number was made with super delegates in mind so it makes no sense not to call it when she hits it.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I will say that if the networks that called Obama the presumptive nominee with pledged + supers do not do the same for Clinton I will call bullshit.

They will.

Weaver was interviewed on CNN or MSNBC or somewhere and was blatantly asked something like: "Media outlets have come out and said they will declare Clinton the presumptive nominee after New Jersey and before California closes . What are your thoughts."

And Weaver flipped out and said that the media would be dealing in falsehoods and lies and that it's not true and that they'll go to the convention.

Then whoever was interviewing him looked at him like he was fucking crazy. Because he is.

It was hilarious.

 

[NeoXChaos]

and to add to b-dubs even if you got rid of super-delegates, the delegate threshold would just be lowered from 2,383 to 2,026 which she will have on June 7th. Similar to the Republicans simple majority of 1,237.

Even if you made them into 715 pledged delegates, split them 55-45 like the current delegate percentage they got and keep the 2,383 and she still clinches on June 7th with CA, NJ.

 

[kingkitty]

Gary Johnson's VP isn't doing well

While Johnson and Weld are trying to run as a ticket — they are handing out joint buttons and paraphernalia — the Libertarian Party convention actually picks their presidential and vice-presidential nominees separately. Delegates could select Johnson and then reject Weld.

And Weld did little to help himself at a Friday night vice-presidential debate in which he got a chilly reception from the hardcore audience of Libertarian true-believers. Asked who did more damage to America — President Obama or President George W. Bush — Weld gave a classic politician answer. “I’d rate it a tie,” he said. He used the word “miasma” in his closing statement.

At one point, Weld said he would stay in the United Nations — an idea anathema to many in the crowd — and said that when people think of Libertarians they often think of “unattractive people” in their neighborhoods.

Weld advocated cutting taxes. One of his opponents yelled, “Taxation is theft!”

“He just didn’t make the case,” Will Tyler White, a delegate from Michigan, said of Weld.

 

[blackw0lf]

Why? She probably can't get there with just pledged. And Obama didn't either so it's pointless.

Because his supporters will take it the wrong way. Again my focus is on what helps the party be unified against trump.

The media can call it. But Hillary should hold off declaring victory until Sanders is mathematically eliminated. Which he isn't until she passes the pledged delegate majority.

 

[Dan]

Honesty I hope they don't. The sanders supporters will just say she's only winning because the superdelegates rigged the process

Sanders and his supporters are going to say that no matter what. They've made that abundantly clear.

Considering their current position is that superdelegates should instead give the nomination to the man losing the race by every single metric, they should not be appeased in any form.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

i dunno, I think "hillary the illegitimate nominee" is pretty interesting of a story.

She'll be declared the presumptive nominee after polls close on June 7th evening. The rules for becoming the nominee are pretty clear and Hillary will have met them on the 7th. And I'm sure the media wants to move on to full Hillary v Trump coverage.

This is going to move fast. The president will declare her the nominee within the week that she clinches. Sanders can carry on however he wants but the media and party will have moved on. I can imagine Sanders being invited to the White House...and I can also see him rejecting any attempt at reconciliation before the convention.

 

[Macho Madness]

Honesty I hope they don't. The sanders supporters will just say she's only winning because the superdelegates rigged the process

Make the nomination based on Hillary passing the pledged delegate majority, effectively eliminating sanders mathematically

Also Hillary should only declare victory when she passes the pledged delegate majority.

Oh so a different standard because some asswipes will be offended when reality hits them in the face like a fucking anvil

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Choice quotes from the TIME interview.

"That a person like [Donald Trump] is actually beating or close to Hillary Clinton in national polls is pathetic,” Sanders told TIME.

Called Hillary Clinton pathetic. He does this twice in the interview.

We ended up breaking even in Kentucky, a closed primary.

Claimed Kentucky was a tie.

...we have a shot to win the California primary on June 7.

Thinks he has a shot at winning California.

I don’t think there’s going to be much of a debate, frankly, that we need to raise the minimum wage actually to $15 an hour. We don’t have to waste time on that. I think that will probably pass quite overwhelmingly.

Thinks that at the convention, everyone will unanimously adopt 15 an hour for the platform, no controversy at all. How does he think this works, anyway? Voice vote to determine the platform?

I think what this campaign has shown is that working people understand that NAFTA and CAFTA and PNTR with China have been disastrous for working families. I think there will be some opposition to my point of view but I have the feeling that we’ll win that debate as well.

Thinks that the Democratic party will pretty easily give up on 70 years of free trade policy.

I’m not sure that we will not win fairly easily on the issue of making public colleges and public universities part of what we consider to be public education, making it free. I suspect we’ll win that one as well.

Is very hopeful he will make free college a part of the platform.

I think you’ve got to ban fracking.

Thinks this is even up for debate.

I think a contentious issue which we have a shot to win is whether or not we break up the large financial institutions and we create a new financial system not based on a handful of giant Wall Street banks.

Off the cuff proposes to recreate the United States finance system in his image without really providing any details.

So those are a few of the issues. I think we’ll win most of them.

Thinks he'll win most of his issues even though he handily lost the election.

So if I say something to you that is ambiguous and it appears in TIME, the next day it’ll become a 30-second TV ad that Sanders said something which will be taken out of context. You’re familiar with that process?

Condescendingly asks the interviewer from TIME magazine if he is familiar with the concept of spin.

The conduct of how Nevada was run was clearly stacked in favor of Secretary Clinton.

Complains about Nevada again. Which he lost. Despite saying just minutes before that the Democratic primary process needs to be more democratic.

Interviewer: Howard Dean, who as you know also ran an insurgent campaign, told TIME that you have to at some point switch gears and concede. Party leaders have said it’s time to take on Donald Trump and worry you are hurting Hillary Clinton.

Sanders: Now we’re shifting gears. We’re off of the DNC being fair. You gotta put a red light on and tell me when you’re going into a new issue. So we’re finished with whether the DNC has been fair, yes? So you’re going into a new question in that Bernie Sanders is the one responsible for a Fox Poll that Hillary Clinton is 3 points behind a guy who is a pathological liar, who has insulted virtually every group in America, who is widely despised, and it is Bernie Sanders’ fault that in some polls Hillary Clinton is now behind. Is that what the question is?

*no recorded response from interviewer*

Blows up at the interviewer for moving the interview along.

The rules are what they are right now. And the rules include the fact that we have had to compete in closed primaries. I would say that the election results would be very, very different in many states if all people in those states had a right to vote rather than just people who had registered in New York state months—was it six months—could we have won New York State? I don’t know, maybe not. I’ll tell you it would have been a hell of a lot closer. If you had anything resembling a fair election process. and that is true in many, many other states.

If we end up forty-eight, forty-nine [percent of the delegates], fighting in states where millions of our supporters were disenfranchised and not able to vote, and if we are in a situation where 400 or more pledged delegates—superdelegates for Hillary Clinton—came on board before the first ballot was cast, do I think we have a right to say to those superdelegates, look, your job is not to tell us who you supported months before the first ballot was cast. [...] if you conclude that Bernie Sanders is the one to prevent Donald Trump from getting into the White House, do your duty to America and the Democratic Party: support Bernie Sanders. That’s where I am.

Simultaneously claims the rules are unfair and tries to take advantage of them.

 

[B-Dubs]

Because his supporters will take it the wrong way. Again my focus is on what helps the party be unified against trump.

The media can call it. But Hillary should hold off declaring victory until Sanders is mathematically eliminated. Which he isn't until she passes the pledged delegate majority.

Which is going to be that same night. It's Bernie's fault his supporters are this way, the rest of the world shouldn't be in the position where we need to coddle them. He just needs to be straight with them for once.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I'm actually very deeply unconvinced by the argument caucuses favour Sanders. I think it is an artifact of the data produced by the fact that the caucuses have mostly taken place in small white post-industrial states that are very favourable towards Sanders anyway; Cohn's argument didn't really extend beyond "look at map, Sanders won caucuses" but that was never a surprise in the first place. Sanders didn't do any noticeably better than his polling in most of these states, and did somewhat worse in a few. Prima facie, one would expect Clinton to do better at caucuses - they're rather confusing and archaic events with a strong degree of process that can be quite hard to understand if you don't have some experience with them; you would expect the candidate with better Democratic support to do better in caucuses than the candidate with better Independent support, which in this case is Clinton over Sanders.

The other confounding factor is that most of the caucuses were much more open than the primaries, and Cohn is making the assumption that any improved Sanders performance is down to the caucus structure and not the open aspect when there's very little evidence to suppose that specifically and again strong prima facie reasons to suppose instead that Sanders would be benefited by an open system more than anything else (given his predominance among Independent voters). Obviously we can't test this, but I'd put reasonable money on Sanders actually having slightly more delegates in the hypothetical world where every caucus state was converted to an open primary.

And no, the Washington beauty contest doesn't count. It had absolutely no consequences and Sanders had already won the caucus, of course his voters couldn't be bothered compared to Clinton ones looking to salvage some dignity. You can't extrapolate from something that was nothing but a gimmick to the real thing.

 

[User 463088]

Because his supporters will take it the wrong way. Again my focus is on what helps the party be unified against trump.

The media can call it. But Hillary should hold off declaring victory until Sanders is mathematically eliminated. Which he isn't until she passes the pledged delegate majority.

Naw, sorry. This ain't RuPaul's best friend race. This is politics. Hillary's people have been more than accommodating to let Bernie run until the end. Hell, she said something to that effect a week ago, that she ran until the end and totally understands.

She needs 73 delegates to get to 2383. I don't think she'll roll out enough Supers to secure before the 7th. New Jersey will put her over the top when they close at 8:00pm EST. Bernie will be mathematically eliminated from the nomination at 11:00pm EST.

There's no risk of pissing anyone off, other than the people who are going to be pissed off no matter what. She'll want to give a speech in prime time.

 

[Dan]

Bernie's that kid whose parents constantly told him he was a special snowflake and that participation trophies equate with winning.

Truly the millennial stereotype.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Choice quotes from the TIME interview.



Called Hillary Clinton pathetic. He does this twice in the interview.

Claimed Kentucky was a tie.

Thinks he has a shot at winning California.

Thinks that at the convention, everyone will unanimously adopt 15 an hour for the platform, no controversy at all. How does he think this works, anyway? Voice vote to determine the platform?

Thinks that the Democratic party will pretty easily give up on 70 years of free trade policy.

Is very hopeful he will make free college a part of the platform.

Thinks this is even up for debate.

Off the cuff proposes to recreate the United States finance system in his image without really providing any details.
Thinks he'll win most of his issues even though he handily lost the election.
Condescendingly asks the interviewer from TIME magazine if he is familiar with the concept of spin.

Complains about Nevada again. Which he lost. Despite saying just minutes before that the Democratic primary process needs to be more democratic.

Blows up at the interviewer for moving the interview along.

Simultaneously claims the rules are unfair and tries to take advantage of them.

I knew I saved these airhorns for a reason....

 

[excelsiorlef]

Choice quotes from the TIME interview.



Called Hillary Clinton pathetic. He does this twice in the interview.

Claimed Kentucky was a tie.

Thinks he has a shot at winning California.

Thinks that at the convention, everyone will unanimously adopt 15 an hour for the platform, no controversy at all. How does he think this works, anyway? Voice vote to determine the platform?

Thinks that the Democratic party will pretty easily give up on 70 years of free trade policy.

Is very hopeful he will make free college a part of the platform.

Thinks this is even up for debate.

Off the cuff proposes to recreate the United States finance system in his image without really providing any details.
Thinks he'll win most of his issues even though he handily lost the election.
Condescendingly asks the interviewer from TIME magazine if he is familiar with the concept of spin.

Complains about Nevada again. Which he lost. Despite saying just minutes before that the Democratic primary process needs to be more democratic.

Blows up at the interviewer for moving the interview along.

Simultaneously claims the rules are unfair and tries to take advantage of them.

Jesus this guy literally can't take being challenged at all. I wish I could see an alt future where he did get the full scale Clinton, let's examine the minutiae of everything she says, treatment. He'd have exploded into a thousand suns of rage and immaturity.


His full scale belief that the DNC will just give him everything he wants is why I'm glad they stood up this last time and said fuck off.

 

[Y2Kev]

Most of those quotes seem reasonable to me.

I'm kind of tired of "working families" etc etc. How about fabulous singles? God. Annoying.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

There's some absolutely appalling and trite Millennial stereotyping going on in here. It's hardly surprising they don't vote if this is the attitude people hold towards them; the contempt is pretty vile.

 

[B-Dubs]

Jesus this guy literally can't take being challenged at all. I wish I could see an alt future where he did get the full scale Clinton, let's examine the minutiae of everything she says, treatment. He'd have exploded into a thousand suns of rage and immaturity.


His full scale belief that the DNC will just give him everything he wants is why I'm glad they stood up this last time and said fuck off.

Part of me wonders what he would have looked like had Clinton taken the kid gloves off and really gave him the sort of fight she gave Obama. I can't imagine it would have been pretty.

 

[NeoXChaos]

and I thought Kasich had a temper.

 

[Y2Kev]

There's some absolutely appalling and trite Millennial stereotyping going on in here. It's hardly surprising they don't vote if this is the attitude people hold towards them; the contempt is pretty vile.

Great, so let's stop talking about working families and talk about what we can do for young, single people or young, married people with no annoying leeching children destroying the planet and sucking up tax dollars.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Part of me wonders what he would have looked like had Clinton taken the kid gloves off and really gave him the sort of fight she gave Obama. I can't imagine it would have been pretty.

It's hard to say.


I think for his base it doesn't matter like at all to them, and might have just made Clinton look dirty and afraid.

What it would have done is tanked Sanders in those GE Polls but probably tanked her too.

 

[User 463088]

I'm actually very deeply unconvinced by the argument caucuses favour Sanders. I think it is an artifact of the data produced by the fact that the caucuses have mostly taken place in small white post-industrial states that are very favourable towards Sanders anyway; Cohn's argument didn't really extend beyond "look at map, Sanders won caucuses" but that was never a surprise in the first place. Sanders didn't do any noticeably better than his polling in most of these states, and did somewhat worse in a few. Prima facie, one would expect Clinton to do better at caucuses - they're rather confusing and archaic events with a strong degree of process that can be quite hard to understand if you don't have some experience with them; you would expect the candidate with better Democratic support to do better in caucuses than the candidate with better Independent support, which in this case is Clinton over Sanders.

The other confounding factor is that most of the caucuses were much more open than the primaries, and Cohn is making the assumption that any improved Sanders performance is down to the caucus structure and not the open aspect when there's very little evidence to suppose that specifically and again strong prima facie reasons to suppose instead that Sanders would be benefited by an open system more than anything else (given his predominance among Independent voters). Obviously we can't test this, but I'd put reasonable money on Sanders actually having slightly more delegates in the hypothetical world where every caucus state was converted to an open primary.

And no, the Washington beauty contest doesn't count. It had absolutely no consequences and Sanders had already won the caucus, of course his voters couldn't be bothered compared to Clinton ones looking to salvage some dignity. You can't extrapolate from something that was nothing but a gimmick to the real thing.

Your last statement is complete and total speculation on your part. In 2008, there were two beauty contest primaries in caucus states that Obama won (Washington and Nebraska). Obama won both the caucus and the primary. In 2016, Bernie won the caucus in each state, but Hillary won both primaries.

There is, literally, zero evidence to support Bernie would have done even better in a caucus-less system that is transitioned to an open primary. In fact, the data points we have suggest that's not even close to being true.

Hillary won more open primaries than Bernie did. In fact, Bernie has won more closed primaries than he has open ones as of April. Caucuses have consistently made him appear way more viable than he actually is.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Most of those quotes seem reasonable to me.

A lot of what he said in the interview seemed reasonable to me. None of those quotes seemed reasonable to me.

There's some absolutely appalling and trite Millennial stereotyping going on in here. It's hardly surprising they don't vote if this is the attitude people hold towards them; the contempt is pretty vile.

No there's not. There's just Dan.