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PoliGAF 2016 |OT6| Delete your accounts
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
- Start date
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Standards kind of change after more than half a century.
Why do we keep letting this poster (not talking about who I am replying to below) derail all conversation? They just want attention, come on guys
That does sound frustrating, I don't personally have any experience working in healthcare. It is good that the ACA has expanded coverage and allowed patients with preexisting conditions to get coverage though.
If you are fairly neutral on most other aspects of Obama's policies, then wouldn't you agree that a sane and economically sound individual is a more safe bet in the White House? You know Hillary will mostly continue what Obama has been doing, while Trump is like rolling a D20 every day to see what crazy or bigoted policy he comes up with next, all while being anti-science and anti-intellectual.
That does sound frustrating, I don't personally have any experience working in healthcare. It is good that the ACA has expanded coverage and allowed patients with preexisting conditions to get coverage though.
If you are fairly neutral on most other aspects of Obama's policies, then wouldn't you agree that a sane and economically sound individual is a more safe bet in the White House? You know Hillary will mostly continue what Obama has been doing, while Trump is like rolling a D20 every day to see what crazy or bigoted policy he comes up with next, all while being anti-science and anti-intellectual.
You might have a point if any of those endorsements actually happened, or if Myazki was a far-right racist and Clinton was a serial killer. Also, why would someone from the KKK endorse a Japanese animator for president of the USA? At least put some effort into your hyperbole.
Why do you suppose that David Duke is endorsing Trump? What separates Trump from Mitt Romney or George W. Bush (both of whom he did not endorse)?
Abinash117
Member
Some don't know, but they're died and Trump's running for president.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I mean, I don't think Trump would sign the Civil Rights Act?
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Abstentions will be considered as a ballot cast for Lyndon LaRouche.
Beer Monkey
Member
I agree with you, that's why I want a national voting holiday, extended voting hours/days, unrestricted voting by mail (absentee voting still has restrictions many places), et al.
Just doing online voting alone is great for slacker millennials but we need way, way more reform than that.
Making voting more convenient for specific groups is a form of disenfranchisement. Voting access needs to be opened up far more than just online. And only adding online voting is a step in the wrong direction. Shades of a poll tax, even.
Tarkus
Member
I just some saying that some vile asshole's endorsement doesn't mean shit.
It may or it may not. Depends on context and the candidate's reaction.
In this particular case -- and especially with how it played out -- it absolutely did mean something.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I mean, it's just hard to vote for Trump outside of supporting bigotry if you look at his policies.
Conservative values that have been suggested:
Low taxes: Sure, Trump knocks this one out of the park.
Small government: lol
Religious values: lmao
Strong national security: Jesus, no.
Technocratic economic policies: lol no
Strong gun rights: Yeah.
Freedom of speech: Not remotely
General good governance: He has Putin's cronies working his campaign.
Conservative values that have been suggested:
Low taxes: Sure, Trump knocks this one out of the park.
Small government: lol
Religious values: lmao
Strong national security: Jesus, no.
Technocratic economic policies: lol no
Strong gun rights: Yeah.
Freedom of speech: Not remotely
General good governance: He has Putin's cronies working his campaign.
Except it does matter (but it also depends on the context of the endorsement and how the candidate responds to it). A candidate's supporters are part of what makes the candidate. The problem with your hypothetical endorsements is that they have no relation to one another, so they make zero sense.
Trump was caught lying when he pretended not to know who Duke was, but it wasn't just a lie - it was nod to the type of people who voted for or would have voted for Duke in the past. If Hillary was endorsed by a serial killer or if Myazaki was endorsed by a klansman while running for president of the United States like in your bizarre scenario, you can bet that both of them would reject those endorsements, because neither of them are idiots.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
He rubs elbows with conservatives and would probably pass most of their policies. You can't really be this dense.
Even if we sidestep all of the bigotry (which you really shouldn't), I don't see how he's a good economic or foreign policy choice. He's made it clear he doesn't understand economics and thinks scientific facts are conspiracy theories, and he's completely unable to keep his mouth shut if somebody slights him at all.
He'd probably twitter bash people as POTUS lol
I know you're playing a character, but how have Republican policymakers shown you that they have things under control lately?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Anyway, Trump thinks vaccines cause autism and that Rafael Cruz killed Jack Kennedy.
This dude is such a a child. Literally the most immature candidate we've had in decades.
His temperament alone would have disqualified him in a saner primary.
Abinash117
Member
It is quite clear that many people don't care about the stuff he says about other people, even if the stuff he says are racist. They simply don't and will not care. I think the best way to talk to people would be how Trump's strategies and policies would be ineffective and/or harm the country( and them). Arguing, from a moral position seems fruitless because if they already think something that someone else thinks is immoral is a good thing or necessary, what makes anyone think that arguing from a moral position is going to work? Plus, people aren't altruistic you have argue how it negatively effects them and by proxy the country.
Trump's proposal of banning Muslims can be argued that it will cause negative relations to our allies, actually increase chances of terror attacks in the US specifically, and will be used as propaganda by terrorists. If they are sympathetic to other people, how it can cause attacks against Muslim Americans. That is one example.
Regardless of his talk, I truly think that he'll be an ineffectual president and leaving things that he does not understand to advisors whom won't do a good job themselves most likely. He'll be a one term president surely.
Trump's proposal of banning Muslims can be argued that it will cause negative relations to our allies, actually increase chances of terror attacks in the US specifically, and will be used as propaganda by terrorists. If they are sympathetic to other people, how it can cause attacks against Muslim Americans. That is one example.
Regardless of his talk, I truly think that he'll be an ineffectual president and leaving things that he does not understand to advisors whom won't do a good job themselves most likely. He'll be a one term president surely.
Tarkus
Member
He did reject the endorsement. Trump isn't keen on figures. He doesn't even know who Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is. If you were Donald Billionaire Trump, would you know the name of some piss ant white supremacist? Especially in a setting where the media are constantly trying to trip you up.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Yes, Bernie, you fucking moron, people really said it was mathematically impossible for arguably the best team in NBA history to win three straight games.
FloydtheFathead
Member
Drop Draymond on his head again.Yes, Bernie, you fucking moron, people really said it was mathematically impossible for arguably the best team in NBA history to win three straight games.
And Golden State is the Clinton of NBA teams.
Is Trump the Cavs in this scenario?
Yes, Bernie, you fucking moron, people really said it was mathematically impossible for arguably the best team in NBA history to win three straight games.
If someone said it was a mathematical impossibility for a basketball team to win 3 games in a row then I would take away their degree because that is a flat out false statement.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
That's what's most disappointing about Lindsey Graham's softening on trump. I know he wants to invade everywhere at all times, and Hillary wont do that, but even he knows the importance in having allies, and he knows how damaging Trump will be to our alliances in the middle east and has said as much.
But then he goes and undermines it all in softening his stance against trump, simply because he's the republican nominee. How can a man so concerned with foreign policy be ok with someone that's going to clearly be extremely damaging to it, no matter if you're looking at it from the perspective of the right or left.
Yes, Bernie, you fucking moron, people really said it was mathematically impossible for arguably the best team in NBA history to win three straight games.
Did they put the round bouncy thing in the ring?
We already know the answer to the question, because in 2000, he sure seemed to know who David Duke was. He at least knew enough about him to refer to him as a klansman and in 1991 said that a vote for Duke was "an anger vote." The best thing that you could say about Trump taking his sweet time to reject the endorsement is that he has serious memory issues.
Do you really have any concern about someone like Trump being in the white house? Because with the way you keep making excuses for him, it seems like you already had your mind made up to vote for him.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I can't remember the last time I've played a character. I've been serious lately since even the China thing.
I didn't say Republican policymakers have things under control. It is well beyond doubt that they do not. What is also obvious to me, however, is that Trump is one of the most malleable politicians in recent memory. Because of his propensity for deal-making and refusal to take serious positions on anything he doesn't care too strongly about (which are actually very good leadership qualities), he's almost certainly going to be a friend to the conservative movement for a while because he's so eager to please them.
Here's what I definitively don't see Trump supporting from your typical conservative:
- Free trade
- Regime change
- Cutting medicare or social security
- Strengthening our partnerships with Japan, South Korea, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia
- Lower taxes
- Increases in defense spending
- Increases in surveillance
- Conservative appointments to the supreme court
- Religious liberty protection legislation
- Cutting programs that target poverty
- Repealing obamacare
- Passing laws severely restricting abortions all across the country
- Rolling back every executive action Obama has ever passed, which includes
- Sealing the border
- Deporting immigrants
- Harsh legal actions against sanctuary cities
- Dropping the lawsuits against states for transgender rights
If you're a conservative and you care about any of the above things I listed in the second list, you've got a pretty clear option this election, even if he's orange and he makes you embarrassed. If you don't care about most of those conservative issues but you're a nativist or an authoritarian, you also have a pretty clear option this election. So Trump will actually build a stronger coalition of Republicans than Mitt Romney ever did. I think.
So yeah, I'm definitely going to call anyone dense if they really think that voting for Trump is based on bigotry. Maybe it's based on compliance with bigotry, but let's be honest; do you really expect non-Muslims to really care about Muslims when the Antichrist has been destroying your America for 8 years?
Abinash117
Member
Party loyalty is a thing. If he doesn't support the president nominee than it can cause further fracturing of the party. It might be an extremely uncommon thing for a party to reject a nominee. It can also jeopardize your own positioning in the party aswell. No one wants to be that guy and no one wants to be the one to damage their own party. It could be also cultural. Besides it is easy to say you endorse, but not in actuality support them and they need someone to go against Hillary. Lets say if have some like Trump get rid some of the racism and bigotry, and make him a more like a ultra-captialist or instead of Trump it is Romney or GWB. Now there's a Democratic nominee that is almost like Andrew Jackson, but has a few solid policies that actual can make the country better. I would image some will still vote for the Democratic nominee. Or how about someone like Jill Stein, but a little more nuttier; I would image that many people in this thread would still come around and vote for her.
Tarkus
Member
Of course I have reservations. Why do you think I said "fall on my sword?" But to think that some billionaire businessman who doesn't even know who the most dangerous threat to America is knows who some cunt white supremacist is on the fly is ridiculous. This is a horrible argument. Do you think a man of Donald Trump's stature knows whom he spoke to last week when he closed a deal? No. When you make contact with so many people everyday, of course you're going to have a memory problem. The whole David Duke thing was completely a media hit job.
Did you even read what I posted? Donald Trump knew who David Duke was in 1991 and in 2000. If he remembered who Duke was during that nine year gap, he's not going to suddenly forget.
So you want someone who can't even remember what happened a week ago to be president? If his memory is that terrible, he has no business being president, especially if he can't tell a klansman apart from a business partner.
I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but every time you defend Trump you make him look more idiotic and unqualified than he already has shown himself to be.
Seriously? It's the media's fault that Donald Trump was caught in a lie? Give me a fucking break.
If you want to vote for him, vote for him; just stop making excuses for your awful, awful candidate.
brianmcdoogle
Member
I don't know how old you are, but lots of people know who David Duke is, just as many knew who someone like George Wallace was, or Pat Buchanan is, and so on. Maybe if you are young or not politically active, but Duke is a known personality. It'd be like getting praise from Strom Thurmond, and then trying to deny you didn't know he was a racist ass.
FloydtheFathead
Member
He did publicly.. And then just moved him off to a new location still employing him quietly if I recall correctly.
Pshaw, like Trump is responsible for, knows, or remembers the 20,000+ people that work for him.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
If Trump wins and Cameron says something bad about him, I expect president Trump to tweet:
*Oink!*
*Oink!*
User 463088
Banned
Hahahahaha. <3
Tarkus
Member
I'm not enthusiastic about voting for him, hence the reason I posted in this thread about it. I wanted people to present points that I could investigate and perhaps make me stay home or not. Not some bullshit David Duke stuff. I mean Hillary used her personal email account bullshit bullshit Benghazi Chris Stevens. It's a non-issue much like Benghazi and emails. I'm not defending Trump, I'm parrying this hit job. Nobody cares about it because it's nothing.
I see what you were getting at, but:
I think surveillance on Muslims, border legislation, deportations, and preventing transgender protections are directly linked to bigotry. I'd even say restricting abortions since it's primarily an attack on poor women of color, and an attack on women in general.
So I disagree with your premise that voting the Republican base is largely not bigoted.
I don't think Trump builds a stronger coalition than Romney. His current polling edge over Clinton even in Southern states is not very good when we consider the relative time to election. Only leading Georgia by 1 point right now while Romney led Obama by about 12% at this time.
Rmoney wasn't very polarizing unless you absolutely hated Mormons, I mean sure I thought his platform was pretty awful, but his gaffes were "47% don't even pay taxes!" not "Mexicans are rapists". There's a big difference when we're talking about bigotry, at least Mittens was a dog-whistler anyway.
What state are you registered to vote in?
jack_package_200
Banned
Have you joined a cult? Eleven easy ways to know if that Messiah of yours is the real deal.
https://medium.com/@francis.mispagel/are-you-in-a-cult-b8ef2d668bfe#.o8oijyp6f
also good ole Harry Enten
https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/737469799962382336
https://medium.com/@francis.mispagel/are-you-in-a-cult-b8ef2d668bfe#.o8oijyp6f
also good ole Harry Enten
https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/737469799962382336
The thing with Trump is he has no concrete policy proposals other than THE WALL. The details on everything else shift with his mood. For example he once held two different positions on his ban on Muslims entering the country in the space of a day, at first that also went for American citizens who were abroad but then it later didn't (a few days later it went back to the original stance and then swapped again).
Most economists agree that his economic plan, based on what little they could cobble together from his incoherent ramblings, could lead to at best a trade war and at worst an economic meltdown the likes of which we haven't seen since the 1940's.
That's not even considering international relations. There was a piece in the NYTimes about how world leaders are so freaked out at the prospect of a Trump presidency they not only constantly need Obama to assure them it has no chance of happening, but are tripping over each other to make deals with Obama since they have no idea if they can trust Trump to be a rational actor on the world stage. He's literally got the rest of the world in a panic.
I don't know about you, but if all that described the Democratic nominee I would not be casting a vote for that person. I'd probably vote for the other guy, given they weren't also insane, out of fear.
BlastProcessing
Member
Bernie's campaign a week from tomorrow night.
Bernie's campaign a week from tommorow night:
Tarkus
Member
The best state,
GA
I don't even know how a self-respecting rational Republican can vote for Trump based strictly on his tax policy since it goes together with economic meltdown and protectionism.
You are probably not even helping yourself.
What's left, then -- guns? You are overlooking economic and race issues for lax gun laws?
You are probably not even helping yourself.
What's left, then -- guns? You are overlooking economic and race issues for lax gun laws?
Do you want a trade war with China and Mexico? Do you want someone in office who terrifies world leaders, including our allies? Do you want someone in office who can't separate white supremacists from his own business partners? Do you want someone in office who will force soldiers to commit war crimes? Do you want to ban 1.6 billion people from ever entering or visiting the country? Do you want the most thin-skinned president in the history of the country to make decisions that will affect the rest of the world and turn us into an even bigger laughingstock than when Bush was president? Imagine him calling Angela Merkel fat or David Cameron a pig-fucker. How well do you think that would go over?
These are all things that come with a Donald Trump presidency, and knowing all that, if you still try to defend him, you were never actually looking for a reason to stay home, and there's nothing that anyone can say or do to get you to change your mind. So I guess I'll ask this in advance: if you were never going to stay home in the first place, why even ask?
jack_package_200
Banned
My friends on facebook have made the transition from Bernie Sanders to Jill Stein.
Tarkus
Member
This is quality.
To answer your question, I'm a very busy person. I don't have time to read all the details. I use this thread for most of my news. I do see headlines and things like that. To make matters worse, I'm fundamentally different from most posters here. It's hard to weed out the partisan garbage and read about issues in a fair manner.
B-Dubs, you're always quality
Give them time, people are still going to be in the mourning period. When a Trump presidency looks them in the face they'll come back home.
I mean, like I said further up, if all that described a democrat there's no way in hell I'd vote for them. I don't care if they'd agree with me on the issues I cared about or not.
EDIT: Not that they would agree with me on the issues if they believed all the shit Trump did. I obviously mean if they were as dangerous a candidate as Trump and could potentially throw the world into chaos. The American presidency has unparalleled powers and in the hands of the wrong person could spell doom for a lot of innocent people.
EDIT2: If Bill Kristol is right and another Republican runs as a third party option then go vote for them. I'd do that in your shoes. Unless it looked close, then I'd go for the other party.
I'm in GA too lol. Was just curious if you were in a full red or full blue state, but GA actually is on the cusp this election so our votes might matter. Polling is really close, and usually at this time of year the GoP candidate has a double digit polling lead
Anyway, I think you should look at more specific economic policy from Clinton and Trump and wait for their debates if you haven't made up your mind yet.
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