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[theprodigy]

Again, the point is not to actually run as an independent. The point is to make Clinton worry he will to get as many concessions as possible. I don't actually want him to run as an independent. It would be a terrible idea, I don't want President Trump. However, if I were him, I'd be dropping hints about it, maybe have something leak suggesting I was looking at the legal proceedings for getting my name on the ballot, have an aide accidentally suggest it, stuff like that. If Clinton thinks that Sanders will back her come what may, she has absolutely no reason to do anything. Got to put the fear of Trump into her to get any concessions.

So...what happens if Sanders does this and Clinton calls the bluff?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

So, we've now reached essentially literal blackmail to get his way?

It's not blackmail; he never *had* to help Clinton. He has something she wants, she needs to offers something. That's how bargaining works.

 

[B-Dubs]

So...what happens if Sanders does this and Clinton calls the bluff?

Or takes the gloves off?

 

[Cesare Borgia]

There's not enough time for Sanders to get on enough ballots to matter in November. No one believes he will run third party nor will he get anything major in the DNC platform. This idea that Bernie has leverage is laughable. But hey, if this means I don't have to hear about him ever again so be it.

 

[Abinash117]

The Chairperson of the DNC shouldn't have been involved in the selection of the people on the Drafting Committee? u w8 m8?

Spoiler

Although I don't want her as DNC chair but whatever.

But...he didn't win the primary....so he's not entitled to any large say than what he's earned. It's essentially split based on where the number of delegates is going to end up. As to the DNC members...uh, the fact that they don't support Bernie isn't a flaw in the system. The party itself should have a say in the platform we're crafting since, you know, we have to run on and defend it.

He isn't entitled, but he is getting some regardless. It looks like it might satisfy Bernie and his supporters at least, but again it really doesn't matter much because Hillary will most likely have the most say during the drafting process, as some of the DNC members will support her and when the rest of the 162 members vote anyway.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Again, the point is not to actually run as an independent. The point is to make Clinton worry he will to get as many concessions as possible. I don't actually want him to run as an independent. It would be a terrible idea, I don't want President Trump. However, if I were him, I'd be dropping hints about it, maybe have something leak suggesting I was looking at the legal proceedings for getting my name on the ballot, have an aide accidentally suggest it, stuff like that. If Clinton thinks that Sanders will back her come what may, she has absolutely no reason to do anything. Got to put the fear of Trump into her to get any concessions.

They could easily call his bluff. It'd be plainly obvious to anyone he had no actual intention to run third party. He'd destroy his legacy. He'd destroy his movement. Everything he's ever worked for or believed in would be ruined.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

So...what happens if Sanders does this and Clinton calls the bluff?

Nothing...

...you have to hope.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

They could easily call his bluff. It'd be plainly obvious to anyone he had no actual intention to run third party. He'd destroy his legacy. He'd destroy his movement. Everything he's ever worked for or believed in would be ruined.

Clinton clearly has at least some worry either that he'll run as an independent or refuse to endorse her, or he wouldn't have been offered what he has. Running as an independent might be stretching credibility, but straight up refusing to endorse and making a song and dance about it is certainly credible - I've seen plenty of you in this thread worrying about it.

 

[Captain Pants]

Of all the things I hate about Twitter, it being a driver behind the proliferation of images of text is what I hate the most.

I'm a fan. There's a lot of blind links posted here that I don't always want to click on, so I'm happy to be able to read what people are linking to without leaving the thread, or accidentally clicking on someone's racist twitter feed and having google think I want news updates on shitty people, etc.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

What does Sanders have that Hillary wants?

 

[nature boy]

Ya....Uh....Cali ain't gonna be Bernie's friend. In theory, he'd have been well served to get out before it to spare himself any appearance of voters actually offering a repudiation of him as a candidate. That's an optics argument, though.

I really hope he's not going to hold out just to get more concessions and influence, although he does have a big card in his sleeve: his voter/donators data.

 

[Crayons]

What does Sanders have that Hillary wants?

young people

 

[B-Dubs]

young people

She's gonna get those anyway and those she doesn't get were never going to vote in the first place.

 

[User 463088]

He isn't entitled, but he is getting some regardless. It looks like it might satisfy Bernie and his supporters at least, but again it really doesn't matter much because Hillary will most likely have the most say during the drafting process, as some of the DNC members will support her and when the rest of the 162 members vote anyway.

It's another example of Hillary (and her people) being way, way better and gracious than I would be. So, I respect the hell out of that. There's a reason I'd never run for office....mainly, because I can be a total bitch, even when I know I shouldn't be.

 

[JP_]

So, we've now reached essentially literal blackmail to get his way?

...it's politics 101. Use leverage to get concessions.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I'm actually moderately surprised he accepted that offer. It's less generous than I think he could have gotten. He must think one of the Clinton nominations will be relatively amenable or something; I'll have to go do some more research.

Sanders is in line to become the next chair of the budget committee. At the end of the day, he was always going to play ball. Did you think this was actually about the freaking DNC platform?

 

[Abinash117]

What does Sanders have that Hillary wants?

Very little, but he has a huge donor list.

 

[NeoXChaos]

What does Sanders have that Hillary wants?

white men

 

[BanGy.nz]

What does Sanders have that Hillary wants?

His e-mail list.

Very little, but he has a huge donor list.

Beaten like Bernie in Texas.

 

[hawk2025]

He clearly had bargaining power, and he clearly got concessions because of the bargaining power he had. If he had no bargaining power, he would have gotten nothing. What it is can be debated, but he clearly has something the Democrats want.

...But regardless: His bluff was called, in part, and he only got a non-blocking coalition out of it and damaged everyone's numbers, even if temporarily.

This is at the very base of dynamic bargaining: The value of the agreement needs to decrease over time to prove that both parties are willing to leave skin in the game to protect their positions. Bernie played the irrational demagogue over the past couple of months and got a non-blocking representation out of it. Whether it was worth it or not, I don't know.

 

[User 463088]

Clinton clearly has at least some worry either that he'll run as an independent or refuse to endorse her, or he wouldn't have been offered what he has. Running as an independent might be stretching credibility, but straight up refusing to endorse and making a song and dance about it is certainly credible - I've seen plenty of you in this thread worrying about it.

While I don't think there's a lot of love between Bernie and Hillary, I do think she has a special appreciation for what he's going through. She's been there before. She knows it probably feels like shit. So, by that alone, I think she's willing to be gracious not just because she has to but probably, in a way, because she wants to. So it's probably not all based on worry about him taking his ball and going home.

I don't think she wants him to go away mad, she just wants him to go away.

 

[JP_]

It's another example of Hillary (and her people) being way, way better and gracious than I would be. So, I respect the hell out of that. There's a reason I'd never run for office....mainly, because I can be a total bitch, even when I know I shouldn't be.

News flash, Hillary wants Bernie supporters on her side. This idea that she should or even want to get vengeance on them or whatever is stupid.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Sanders is in line to become the next chair of the budget committee. At the end of the day, he was always going to play ball. Did you think this was actually about the freaking DNC platform?

Again, if I were Sanders, that would be lower in my priorities. Sure, he might get the budget committee chair for two years, fine, whatever. Impacting the Democratic structure does far more in the long-run to bring about the policies he wants, and a veto bloc on the drafting committee gives him that influence. Again, it's the long-game.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Clinton clearly has at least some worry either that he'll run as an independent or refuse to endorse her, or he wouldn't have been offered what he has. Running as an independent might be stretching credibility, but straight up refusing to endorse and making a song and dance about it is certainly credible - I've seen plenty of you in this thread worrying about it.

What they offered him is a meaningless gesture. The DNC has no reason to be hostile to him, but if he wanted to burn everything down, the DNC could just as easily not be as gracious.

 

[Mike M]

I'm a fan. There's a lot of blind links posted here that I don't always want to click on, so I'm happy to be able to read what people are linking to without leaving the thread, or accidentally clicking on someone's racist twitter feed and having google think I want news updates on shitty people, etc.

None of that is inherent in text as images. People could just as easily cut and paste the text as they could an image url. People still post blind links regardless.

 

[User 463088]

News flash, Hillary wants Bernie supporters on her side. This idea that she should or even want to get vengeance on them or whatever is stupid.

Didn't say that wasn't the case. I said that after a year of someone calling me corrupt, a shill, an oligarch, and all the other bull shit Bernie's campaign has thrown at her...I was saying I would have been a total bitch, because I'm shady as fuck.

 

[Abinash117]

He clearly had bargaining power, and he clearly got concessions because of the bargaining power he had. If he had no bargaining power, he would have gotten nothing. What it is can be debated, but he clearly has something the Democrats want.

...But regardless: His bluff was called, in part, and he only got a non-blocking coalition out of it and damaged everyone's numbers, even if temporarily.

This is at the very base of dynamic bargaining: The value of the agreement needs to decrease over time to prove that both parties are willing to leave skin in the game to protect their positions. Bernie played the irrational demagogue over the past couple of months and got a non-blocking representation out of it. Whether it was worth it or not, I don't know.

I doubt that. I think it mostly to do to placate Bernie and friends. Satisfy the opposition to make easier to 'unify' later and a give them a bone. He will have a voice, but it may not be something that will turn into a bigger thing done the road.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Ya....Uh....Cali ain't gonna be Bernie's friend. In theory, he'd have been well served to get out before it to spare himself any appearance of voters actually offering a repudiation of him as a candidate. That's an optics argument, though.

It's going to be really funny when he and his supporters try to argue "well we won 3 states today!" on 6/7 after losing New Mexico, New Jersey and California by comical margins, as if Montana and the Dakotas and their like five people are on the same level as those states.

That's the thing, Sanders has won an impressive number of contests if you only look at # of states, if you plugged the electoral college numbers into it it would be pitiful.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Didn't say that wasn't the case. I said that after a year of someone calling me corrupt, a shill, an oligarch, and all the other bull shit Bernie's campaign has thrown at her...I was saying I would have been a total bitch, because I'm shady as fuck.

Yeah. Sanders deserves nothing for his dishonest campaign. He's lucky he's getting anything. "Man of principles" LOL. I can't wait to stand on the ashes of the Sanders campaign in 2 weeks. The tears and salt will be delicious.

Spoiler

Let me have my moment

 

[Crayons]

While I don't think there's a lot of love between Bernie and Hillary, I do think she has a special appreciation for what he's going through. She's been there before. She knows it probably feels like shit. So, by that alone, I think she's willing to be gracious not just because she has to but probably, in a way, because she wants to. So it's probably not all based on worry about him taking his ball and going home.

I don't think she wants him to go away mad, she just wants him to go away.

Were they friends before the election?

 

[Box of Kittens]

Eh. I don't like ti the last line says that's what Clinton stands for. Those interests and not working people.

Same here. One of my biggest problems with Bernie Sanders is the idea that he's the only one who cares about the 99%.

Either way this is a positive development. I'm sure he'll still do several things to annoy me between now and the convention because losing primary campaigns tend to go out with several steps forward followed by a step back, etc.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Regardless, I think things are going to be at their most hostile for the next few weeks as each campaign tries to get the most out of each other. Then the convention will come, Sanders will bend the knee, and we'll all be happy friends again trying to prevent Emperor Trump from deposing the Directorate and declaring the First American Empire.



So we should probably go back to napping until then, just let all that hostility pass us by.

 

[NeoXChaos]

It's going to be really funny when he and his supporters try to argue "well we won 3 states today!" on 6/7 after losing New Mexico, New Jersey and California by comical margins, as if Montana and the Dakotas and their like five people are on the same level as those states.

That's the thing, Sanders has won an impressive number of contests if you only look at # of states, if you plugged the electoral college numbers into it it would be pitiful.

http://www.270towin.com/maps/5nRwd

 

[hawk2025]

I doubt that. I think it mostly to do to placate Bernie and friends. Satisfy the opposition to make easier to 'unify' later and a give them a bone. He will have a voice, but it may not be something that will turn into a bigger thing done the road.

Placating Bernie and friends is precisely the point! If they had no bargaining power and no value, they would get nothing. He played the game and got something for it, that's what bargaining is all about -- he put his ass and his political dynasty on the line to get more representation out of it.

Regardless, I think things are going to be at their most hostile for the next few weeks as each campaign tries to get the most out of each other. Then the convention will come, Sanders will bend the knee, and we'll all be happy friends again trying to prevent Emperor Trump from deposing the Directorate and declaring the First American Empire.



So we should probably go back to napping until then, just let all that hostility pass us by.

I'll add that I don't know where you've been all this time, but it's been a good addition to this thread. Some sharp shit there, for the most part

 

[User 463088]

It's going to be really funny when he and his supporters try to argue "well we won 3 states today!" on 6/7 after losing New Mexico, New Jersey and California by comical margins, as if Montana and the Dakotas and their like five people are on the same level as those states.

That's the thing, Sanders has won an impressive number of contests if you only look at # of states, if you plugged the electoral college numbers into it it would be pitiful.

If it shakes out like we think it will, and we used the Electoral Map...it would be 396-142.

And, I still stand by what I've always said: my biggest issue with Bernie has always been his campaign not the man. As we've moved on, though, we've seen that he's been responsible for a lot of the shit that was annoying to me, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[PantherLotus]

i blame GRRM for this bend the knee nonsense

who says this shit

 

[ampere]

Even with as bad as Bernie has been lately with talking shit about the Dems, dude knows that Trump will literally shit on everything he stands for and try to cause WW3

I bet he has some hard feelings, but after some time that sinks in and he does what he can to get his supporters to vote blue no matter what.

 

[User 463088]

Were they friends before the election?

I'm not sure they had anything other than a working relationship. Bernie took money from Hillary's PAC when he ran for Senate, though...so I assume they probably didn't hate each other.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

young people

They're going to turn out at similar rates to 2012 due to demographic gains, and vote for Clinton by a large number.

My point is that Sanders has nothing to offer Hillary. This process is over after NJ/CA and the party will rally behind its nominee. Sanders is begging from a point of weakness given that in a couple weeks the process will be over. And TBH he likely just caused the party another headache given that the people he selected to influence the platform have no interest in compromise. Don't be surprised when Cornell West comes out and slams the process in the coming weeks.

 

[ampere]

Eh. I don't like ti the last line says that's what Clinton stands for. Those interests and not working people.

Same here. One of my biggest problems with Bernie Sanders is the idea that he's the only one who cares about the 99%.

Either way this is a positive development. I'm sure he'll still do several things to annoy me between now and the convention because losing primary campaigns tend to go out with several steps forward followed by a step back, etc.

We have to accept that he's never ever gonna shut up about "Wall Street" and blah blah blah

I'll take a middle ground where he at least steps it back a notch and doesn't say the Dem party is a fraudulent organization

 

[BlastProcessing]

Again, if I were Sanders, that would be lower in my priorities. Sure, he might get the budget committee chair for two years, fine, whatever. Impacting the Democratic structure does far more in the long-run to bring about the policies he wants, and a veto bloc on the drafting committee gives him that influence. Again, it's the long-game.

I read Sanders as being a more astute politician than that. In American politics, the long game is for chumps. You cash in the second that you can. The situation is way too fluid for any other strategy to be viable.

If someone tries to pitch you on the long game they are either misguided or sthey are selling you something. I don't think Sanders is misguided...

 

[Captain Pants]

None of that is inherent in text as images. People could just as easily cut and paste the text as they could an image url. People still post blind links regardless.

Fair enough. I'm just saying that I'm happy to be able to read stuff without following links.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I read Sanders as being a more astute politician than that. In American politics, the long game is for chumps. You cash in the second that you can. The situation is way too fluid for any other strategy to be viable.

If someone tries to sell you on the long game they are either misguided or selling you something. I don't think Sanders is misguided...

I disagree very strongly. American politics isn't fluid in the slightest. You want to see fluid, go look at Australia or something. They'll have a new Prime Minister by the time I've hit the Submit Reply button on this post.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

CNN breaking that Virginia Governor McAuliffe is under investigation by the FBI for campaign donations from a possible foreign Chinese national in 2013

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Trump was extremely pro regime change in Libya five years ago:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkacz...or-not-topplin?utm_term=.cbGOZBvbM#.gcDWwxPJo

Trump and the truth are basically orthogonal to each other.

Even with as bad as Bernie has been lately with talking shit about the Dems, dude knows that Trump will literally shit on everything he stands for and try to cause WW3

I bet he has some hard feelings, but after some time that sinks in and he does what he can to get his supporters to vote blue no matter what.

Trump is pro-Russia and anti-UK though so WW3 would be fascinating with Trump you have to admit.

Russia and the United States vs. China and Turkey and Japan and India and Mexico and Ukraine (and smaller Eastern European nations)? You didn't see this coming as a potential WW3 ten years ago, admit it.

 

[NeoXChaos]

CNN breaking that Virginia Governor McAuliffe is under investigation by the FBI for campaign donations

????????

 

[Box of Kittens]

http://www.270towin.com/maps/5nRwd

You didn't account for fraud, virtual ties, the South not counting, or retroactive momentum.

 

[pigeon]

The main thing I would note about Sanders's negotiation strategy is that, the more he plays hardball, the more his poll numbers drop.

Taking a mutually assured destruction approach might be good game theory but it's pretty terrible optics for the 60% of Sanders supporters who say they'll vote for Clinton, because presumably they don't want to destroy the Democratic Party.

So a strategy like that may just erode away his support and reduce his relevance. Arguably Clinton and the DNC should just respond with oppo dumps to peel his bloc away from him even further.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The main thing I would note about Sanders's negotiation strategy is that, the more he plays hardball, the more his poll numbers drop.

Taking a mutually assured destruction approach might be good game theory but it's pretty terrible optics for the 60% of Sanders supporters who say they'll vote for Clinton, because presumably they don't want to destroy the Democratic Party.

So a strategy like that may just erode away his support and reduce his relevance. Arguably Clinton and the DNC should just respond with oppo dumps to peel his bloc away from him even further.

I agree, actually. I think he's pulled the trigger slightly too early. Then again, I don't know the exact timing of the committee appointment process and the like, he may have had to go now.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

CNN breaking that Virginia Governor McAuliffe is under investigation by the FBI for campaign donations from a possible foreign Chinese national in 2013

Wow.

I guess this ends my Tim Kaine train.