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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love

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I

Infinite Stars

Member
Please, just please let this be the call to arms for revolt. I don't want it, no one wants it, but this is still month 1 of 48.

B-Dubs said:
It doesn't seem likely at all. If Islam was something new, then maybe, but for a religion that's 1000's of years old?
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Not to be nitpicky because I agree with the point, but of the big 5 religions I can think of(Abrahamic, Buddhism, Hinduism), Islam is the youngest and was founded 6/7th Century AD.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
balladofwindfishes said:
That would set the precedent to basically eliminate the first amendment's religious protection, if the government can start just labeling religions as ideologies and not religions.
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Which is why no one's going to go along with that argument, it's absolutely frightening and extremely dangerous. If that argument goes through it opens the door to a theocracy.

Infinite Stars said:
Please, just please let this be the call to arms for revolt. I don't want it, no one wants it, but this is still month 1 of 48.


Not to be nitpicky because I agree with the point, but of the big 5 religions I can think of(Abrahamic, Buddhism, Hinduism), Islam is the youngest and was founded 6/7th Century AD.
Click to expand...

Hey, it's been a while since my "history of the middle east" class in college.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
I don't think they're going to convince Kennedy that "Islam is an ideology" that requires barring and set legal precedent to circumvent religious protections.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
B-Dubs said:
It doesn't seem likely at all. If Islam was something new, then maybe, but for a religion that's 1000's of years old?
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There is a drive in both left and right to blur Islam with Islamism, and label it as a political ideology. Michael Flynn even said it in a speech, and the new atheists like Dawkins/Harris/Maher constantly harp about it. All I'm saying is that there is an audience that will hear and accept the case.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
shinra-bansho said:
I don't think they're going to convince Kennedy that "Islam is an ideology" that requires barring and set legal precedent to circumvent religious protections.
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I don't think Roberts would buy it either to be honest.

RustyNails said:
There is a drive in both left and right to blur Islam with Islamism, and label it as a political ideology. Michael Flynn even said it in a speech, and the new atheists like Dawkins/Harris/Maher constantly harp about it. All I'm saying is that there is an audience that will hear and accept the case.
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Sure, there's plenty of idiots that will buy into it. I'm just hopeful that none of them are in our judiciary.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
All this says that this WHOLE thing is amateur hour, that is all.

People with little knowledge of government and lacks experience, but with very ambitious goals are mucking things up. To frank, none of this should be surprising.
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
B-Dubs said:
Which is why no one's going to go along with that argument, it's absolutely frightening and extremely dangerous. If that argument goes through it opens the door to a theocracy.



Hey, it's been a while since my "history of the middle east" class in college.
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Aka what the GOP(at least several members/voters) want. They have confused America being founded with deistic values as being founded on Christianity,
 
K

kess

Member
This EO must have been why the senior staff at the State Department was fired the other day. People are appealing to State and don't know what the fuck is going on. By intent.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Infinite Stars said:
Please, just please let this be the call to arms for revolt. I don't want it, no one wants it, but this is still month 1 of 48.


Not to be nitpicky because I agree with the point, but of the big 5 religions I can think of(Abrahamic, Buddhism, Hinduism), Islam is the youngest and was founded 6/7th Century AD.
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Well to be nitpicky, Sikhism is like 4th or 5th biggest religion and it was founded in the 16th century :p
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Wilsongt said:
I am now in firm belief that Trump supporters who say this is perfectly fine are an absolute lost cause to anything logical. The Democratic party needs to reach out and harness that outrage to bring people to together to help them realize that they can make this all stop.
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My father-in-law is like this. Handwaves away anything you bring up. No logic whatsoever.

By the way, going to be interesting to see approval ratings next week after this. Curious to know if anything changes.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
But Thomas and Roberts will be supportive of the idea.
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I don't think Roberts wants to be the guy who lets the first amendment get torn in two, he seems to care more about the court's reputation than anything else. At least I hope.

Infinite Stars said:
Aka what the GOP(at least several members/voters) want. They have confused America being founded with deistic values as being founded on Christianity,
Click to expand...

That's why it's so scary. If it happens we'd be one election away from a total shitshow that'd make this shitshow look desirable.
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
RustyNails said:
Well to be nitpicky, Sikhism is like 4th or 5th biggest religion and it was founded in the 16th century :p
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Fair enough, I keep on forgetting Sikhism is 28 Million followers worldwide. My major point was that if we're talking thousands of years old, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism are the big ones that count.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
B-Dubs said:
I don't think Roberts wants to be the guy who lets the first amendment get torn in two, he seems to care more about the court's reputation than anything else. At least I hope.
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You'd think. Roberts and Kennedy can hang their hats on the idea that they were defending the country. Think about the Red Scare. Supreme Court ruled in favor of the state arguing that teachers with communist links should not be allowed to teach in schools. And I think another such case was ruled in favor of US barring entry of people from "communist states".
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Let them try to ban Muslims. It's literally the highest form of impossible to prove. Even with a religious test or something (which 90% of Christians would fail about their own religion), I'd just start up a denomination of Islam that changes every rule or statement of the religion into "Live long and prosper" so you couldn't fail and still be a "Muslim."

It would be catastrophically idiotic.
 
K

kess

Member
RustyNails said:
You'd think. Roberts and Kennedy can hang their hats on the idea that they were defending the country. Think about the Red Scare. Supreme Court ruled in favor of the state arguing that teachers with communist links should not be allowed to teach in schools. And I think another such case was ruled in favor of US barring entry of people from "communist states".
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Trump already put that train of thought on shaky ground by exempting Saudi Arabia, etc.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
RustyNails said:
You'd think. Roberts and Kennedy can hang their hats on the idea that they were defending the country. Think about the Red Scare. Supreme Court ruled in favor of the state arguing that teachers with communist links should not be allowed to teach in schools. And I think another such case was ruled in favor of US barring entry of people from "communist states".
Click to expand...

Communism is already an ideology though. They'd have to tear up the first amendment even more than that, and rule Islam is an ideology, to get this through.

I'm just trying to hope for the best here because if it all goes to shit there's nothing to be done to set it right.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
I actually wonder what the chances are of one of Trump's properties abroad getting bombed. Would probably be more scared of his response to that than even an embassy or consulate

Like, what does he do if his hotel in Egypt gets attacked?
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
Acquaintance defending Trump. Says nothing Trump has done threatens the first amendment. I find that hard to believe. He also claimed he only voted for Trump to protest the DNC, but has defended everything Trump has said.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
neurosisxeno said:
Acquaintance defending Trump. Says nothing Trump has done threatens the first amendment. I find that hard to believe. He also claimed he only voted for Trump to protest the DNC, but has defended everything Trump has said.
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The muslim ban is obviously unconstitutional as a result of the first amendment.

Also, if I'm honest, I seriously doubt your friend voted for Trump to protest the DNC. No one defending him would ever vote for a Democrat.
 
T

Teggy

Member
rokkerkory said:
Fuck the patriots
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Are we talking the shadowy group from the Metal Gear Solid series, the football team, or the dudes from 1776?

sazzy said:
TV channels in Pakistan are headlining news with "America at war with Muslims".
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And they're not even covered by the ban.

So the govt had to know this would be challenged. Is there some greater goal here or are they just dumb? I can never tell with this group.

This is insane. What is going on here? This sounds totally evil:
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheAPJournalist/status/825549847151464448/photo/1
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
B-Dubs said:
The muslim ban is obviously unconstitutional as a result of the first amendment.

Also, if I'm honest, I seriously doubt your friend voted for Trump to protest the DNC. No one defending him would ever vote for a Democrat.
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Oh I know it is. I've been saying such since the campaign trail. I know he wouldn't vote for a Democrat. He's voted Republican every chance he got. I just find his "logic" laughable. He's a racist, sexist, asshole. That's why he voted for Trump.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
My wild prediction:

There will be a counter coup instead of a coup.

James Mattis will be arrested, under the pretense that he was going to lead a coup, and all of his alleged co-coup-plotters in the military's top brass will be arrested as well. Completely made up, no coup was planned at all. The counter-coup is the coup.

The very reason he was appointed at the head of the military was because of the extremely stark contrast he had with Trump's own stated policies:

Mattis praises the friendship of regional US allies such as Jordan and the United Arab Emirates.[61] He has criticized Barack Obama for his view of seeing allies as 'free-loading', saying: "For a sitting U.S. president to see our allies as freeloaders is nuts."[61] He has cited the importance of the United Arab Emirates and Jordan as countries that wanted to help, for example, in filling in the gaps in Afghanistan.[62] He has criticized current defense strategy as giving "the perception we're pulling back" from US allies.[62] He stresses the need for the US to bolster its ties with allied intelligence agencies, particularly the intelligence agencies of Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia.[63] In 2012, Mattis argued for providing weapons to Syrian rebels, as a way to fight back against Iranian proxies in Syria.
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Speaking at a conference sponsored by The Heritage Foundation in Washington in 2015 Mattis stated that he believed that Russian President Vladimir Putin's intent is "to break NATO apart."[65] Mattis has also spoken out against what he perceives as Russia's expansionist or bellicose policies in Syria, Ukraine and the Baltic states.
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He was chosen to lead the military because the coup story would write itself and be automatically credible.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Ether_Snake said:
My wild prediction:

There will be a counter coup instead of a coup.

James Mattis will be arrested, under the pretense that he was going to lead a coup, and all of his alleged co-coup-plotters in the military's top brass will be arrested as well. Completely made up, no coup was planned at all. The counter-coup is the coup.

The very reason he was appointed at the head of the military was because of the extremely stark contrast he had with Trump's own stated policies:


He was chosen to lead the military because the coup story would write itself and be automatically credible.
Click to expand...

To what end? If I can be real with you, this sounds insane.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
B-Dubs said:
To what end? If I can be real with you, this sounds insane.
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To Bannon's end.

Then we had a long talk about his approach to politics. He never called himself a “populist” or an “American nationalist,” as so many think of him today. “I’m a Leninist,” Bannon proudly proclaimed.

Shocked, I asked him what he meant.

“Lenin,” he answered, “wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.”
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G

greatgeek

Banned
metalslimer said:
I can't believe that they actually wanted to block green card holders from coming back

That's truly evil
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The deplorables don't care about the economic or security justifications they raise to support immigration restrictions. They're motivated by anxiety over the weakening white majority, and they will do anything to strengthen it--like, say, by deporting every brown person they can. That's my impression from "discussing politics" with them, anyway.
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
B-Dubs said:
To what end? If I can be real with you, this sounds insane.
Click to expand...

Ether_Snake said:
My wild prediction:

There will be a counter coup instead of a coup.

James Mattis will be arrested, under the pretense that he was going to lead a coup, and all of his alleged co-coup-plotters in the military's top brass will be arrested as well. Completely made up, no coup was planned at all. The counter-coup is the coup.

The very reason he was appointed at the head of the military was because of the extremely stark contrast he had with Trump's own stated policies:





He was chosen to lead the military because the coup story would write itself and be automatically credible.
Click to expand...


Isn't this what Ergodan did last year in Turkey?
 
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