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[Abinash117]

I think the issue is, even if you take out the neo-Nazis, Republicans are spineless hateful people. This is the party of Cruz, McCain, McConnell, Ryan, and that heartlessness and lack of ability to reason actions and consequences bleeds down to the voters,

I'm not saying all Trump voters are like that - there seems to be significant push-back on social media, at least, and then there's the economic anxiety voters. But pushing bipartisanship with rank-and-file voters, when the leaders have as much moral spine as a whelk... I think the everyday Republican voters need to see how much death and destruction Trump and the GOP will create, in order to break down the polarisation that they've welcomed with open arms.



Customs agents ignore judge, enforce Trump’s travel ban: ACLU

Though it's the NYPost, and it could just be that there's no clear directive from supervisors or senior staff to stop enforcing the ban.

In the CNN article i says that they are trying to get the order out. The situation might get cleared up sometime later on Sunday or Monday.

 

[Pixieking]

In the CNN article i says that they are trying to get the order out. The situation might get cleared up sometime later on Sunday or Monday.

Yeah, though it may be that the order won't be going out? Reposting for new page:

The Latest: Official says ruling will not affect travel ban

3 a.m.

The Homeland Security Department says a New York court order temporarily barring the U.S. from deporting people from nations subject to President Donald Trump's travel ban will not affect the overall implementation of the White House executive action.

The agency said the court order affected a relatively small number of travelers who were inconvenienced by security procedures upon their return.

The department's statement said: "President Trump's Executive Orders remain in place— prohibited travel will remain prohibited, and the U.S. government retains its right to revoke visas at any time if required for national security or public safety," according to the DHS statement.

Stephen Miller, a senior adviser to the White House, said that nothing in the judge's order "in anyway impedes or prevents the implementation of the president's executive order which remains in full, complete and total effect."

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Really? I mean, sure, I can see the White Evangelicals sticking with the party, but beyond that? The ethnic shifts are already moving against the GOP, and even if the Hispanic group doesn't vote as a block, the majority of them will vote Dem, right? Add to that increasing social liberalisation and the GOP's backward attitude to social rights, climate-change denial, medicare/ACA.

I think it partly comes down to what the party actually does. There was talk here pre-election of the Dems tying Trump to the GOP, tainting the party with his toxicity. Well, they're actively tainting themselves now, in what looks like a last-ditch attempt to stay relevant and screw the country over one last time. But if they flip on Trump in the next couple of days, they'll live longer.

Edit:

Malevolence Tempered by Incompetence: Trump’s Horrifying Executive Order on Refugees and Visas

I can and will argue against assuming that demographic shifts make it destiny that the Democrats will succeed. Remember how white Catholics used to be othered and joined with the politics of the marginalized until they were made white and then were willing to shift their allegiance? Who is to say that won't happen with hispanics? It already sort of happens with Cubans but if hispanics become enough of the population they'll probably be enveloped into whiteness the same way the Irish did. Sure, like white Catholics they might be more likely to side with the marginalized than their counterparts who weren't ever outside of whiteness, but that doesn't mean they'll be a core constituency for all of time.

Same with the assumption that future generations will be increasingly liberal even though Gen Y shows signs of being much more conservative than millennials. They probably will be pro-gay marriage, but they're also much more religious than millennials.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Has Mad Dog stopped Trump's madness yet? Thread title needs to be changed. "Even Mad Dog can't stop the train to hell."

Trump taking advice from cheating Miller? Yeah, cuz he has sound judgement.

We are all dead. Hopefully we awaken in the Bernie timeline.

 

[mo60]

It's only been one week.

Jesus fucking christ.

I don't think I witnessed a government ever pull anything trump did in the first week or so of their term in Canada and the US.

 

[aspiegamer]

Has Mad Dog stopped Trump's madness yet? Thread title needs to be changed. "Even Mad Dog can't stop the train to hell."

Not under his scope of power. At most he might be able to pass along in memos/briefings that this risks instability, retaliation, and demoralizing the troops.

 

[Abinash117]

Yeah, though it may be that the order won't be going out? Reposting for new page:

The Latest: Official says ruling will not affect travel ban

The order is deals with people that are detained; the travel ban wasn't part of it. I think the travel ban will be fought in courts or a judge may have already ruled on it and we just don't know yet because of the confusion or they will soon .

 

[BowieZ]

We are all dead. Hopefully we awaken in the Bernie timeline.

I've had that thought too.

But do NOT give in to the gaslighting

 

[RastaMentality]

I feel 0 sympathy for these people.

@crissles: wonder how that's working out for you right about now

https://twitter.com/crissles/status/825472388846538752

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

The order only deals with the immediate harm. That is the type of remedy you can get on short notice. There will be more lawsuits on the larger issues of a ban on immigration based on, what we all know is true, religion. And there is no guaranteed win here tbh.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I feel 0 sympathy for these people.


https://twitter.com/crissles/status/825472388846538752

Anybody who played this stupid game last year needs to be called out. I'll be damned if in 2020 I witness this level of self-destruction again.

 

[Pixieking]

The order is deals with people that are detained; the travel ban wasn't part of it. I think the travel ban will be fought in courts or a judge may have already ruled on it and we just don't know yet because of the confusion or they will soon .

Ah, that's fair enough. So confusing. I wonder how Trump is coping with the stress?

I can and will argue against assuming that demographic shifts make it destiny that the Democrats will succeed. Remember how white Catholics used to be othered and joined with the politics of the marginalized until they were made white and then were willing to shift their allegiance? Who is to say that won't happen with hispanics? It already sort of happens with Cubans but if hispanics become enough of the population they'll probably be enveloped into whiteness the same way the Irish did. Sure, like white Catholics they might be more likely to side with the marginalized than their counterparts who weren't ever outside of whiteness, but that doesn't mean they'll be a core constituency for all of time.

Same with the assumption that future generations will be increasingly liberal even though Gen Y shows signs of being much more conservative than millennials. They probably will be pro-gay marriage, but they're also much more religious than millennials.

Yeah, it's fair to be pessimistic. If the election result taught us anything, it should be to not assume anything.

I would say that using Catholics as an example is... I dunno... I mean, you've got the Catholic Church's resistance to abortion and birth control, and the influence of the Televangelists, so it's not surprising that they are now Republican voters (generally speaking, of course). That said, I don't know the timeline well enough - did White Catholics only become a mainstream voting power in the past 60/70 years? Did Roe and the partisan nature of abortion politics force their hand in deciding how to vote?

 

[RastaMentality]

Anybody who played this stupid game last year needs to be called out. I'll be damned if in 2020 I witness this level of self-destruction again.

People are planting the seeds basically demonizing any Dem who's voted for Trump appointees. This is all gonna happen again.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Ah, that's fair enough. So confusing. I wonder how Trump is coping with the stress?



Yeah, it's far to be pessimistic. If the election result taught us anything, it should be to not assume anything.

I would say that using Catholics as an example is... I dunno... I mean, you've got the Catholic Church's resistance to abortion and birth control, and the influence of the Televangelists, so it's not surprising that they are now Republican voters (generally speaking, of course). That said, I don't know the timeline well enough - did White Catholics only become a mainstream voting power in the past 60/70 years? Did Roe and the partisan nature of abortion politics force their hand in deciding how to vote?

White Catholics were an important voting block for a long time, the well-known urban machines like Tamany Hall relied on using their votes by supplying them jobs/rewards for being active political members and they were receptive to them because they were ostracized by the mainstream white society. Catholic immigrants made up a large part of the labor movement and were one of the legs of the New Deal coalition. Remember that Kennedy had to go and talk in public about how he believed in the separation of church and state and that he wasn't a puppet for the pope.

Abortion is part of it here, but televangelists aren't a Catholic thing at all. The greater point though is that what guarantees that there won't be an issue that breaks normalized hispanics away from voting like a unified bloc for the Democrats or if they'll even do that at all if they become pulled into the greater space of "whiteness".'

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Anybody who played this stupid game last year needs to be called out. I'll be damned if in 2020 I witness this level of self-destruction again.

I scrolled through Sarandon's twitter... she's a hardcore anti-oil and environmentalist too. And even *she* got pulled into that whole Hillary e-mail BS. I'm assuming she:

1. Didn't think her tweet against Hillary would be used so voraciously
2. Voted Stein

The pro Keystone EO and pro-oil everything else must be panicking her daily now.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Sarandon is an idiot.

People are planting the seeds basically demonizing any Dem who's voted for Trump appointees. This is all gonna happen again.

Not for Gillary. She knows the score.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I scrolled through Sarandon's twitter... she's a hardcore anti-oil and environmentalist too. And even *she* got pulled into that whole Hillary e-mail BS. I'm assuming she:

1. Didn't think her tweet against Hillary would be used so voraciously
2. Voted Stein

The pro Keystone EO and pro-oil everything else must be panicking her daily now.

Sarandon was one of those super hardcore BoBers that thought Hillary was worse than Trump and advocated voting for Stein instead.

Earlier this week she made a tweet about the women's march that was understandably met with a pretty huge backlash.

 

[Dan]

I scrolled through Sarandon's twitter... she's a hardcore anti-oil and environmentalist too. And even *she* got pulled into that whole Hillary e-mail BS. I'm assuming she:

1. Didn't think her tweet against Hillary would be used so voraciously
2. Voted Stein

The pro Keystone EO and pro-oil everything else must be panicking her daily now.

She's a willful moron who voted for Nader and then Stein. Absolute worst of the 'no progress without purity' folks.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

There are people from 538 who are saying that "maybe Trump's approval will be better than his favorability like with Bill Clinton! People don't like him but like the job he's doing."

Bill Clinton resided over the time of greatest peace and prosperity the bottom 70% of Americans ever experienced. There were no major wars for us to get involved in, growth was off the charts, and a lot of wage growth went to the working class. This was a lot of luck, but Clinton resided over some shit that makes voters think you're really good at being president even if you're a scumbag.

I don't think Trump kicking 20m off health insurance while starting an unprovoked war with Mexico/Iran/China/Iraq/Russia and melting in every emergency will give voters the same feeling of being good at being president. Especially when growth is garbage right now.

Basically, "Trump will be disliked but approved of like Bill Clinton" assumes that growth will ramp the fuck up and that Trump will do competent things and both of these assumptions are bad.

I feel 0 sympathy for these people.


https://twitter.com/crissles/status/825472388846538752

Rania Khalek was fired from an edgelord Anti-Israel site because of her connections with the Assad regime.

She really does deserve everything she gets.

 

[royalan]

People are planting the seeds basically demonizing any Dem who's voted for Trump appointees. This is all gonna happen again.

And just like Hillary was cautioned to not walk into obvious traps, the same is happening here.

I'm sorry, but speaking with someone who has worked with this party, the consensus is overwhelming at this point: There is no fucking good reason, ESPECIALLY after today, for Democrats to work with Republicans on anything they've proposed. No reason.

It won't get you any closer to Trump.
It won't get you any closer to working with Republicans.
It won't win a single bit of the Republican constituency.
It does not set you up for some "great battle" down the line because Republicans give literally zero fucks what Democrat legislators do at this point.

The ONLY thing it serves to do at this point is send mixed messages to your base, depress your base, and make you look incredibly tone-deaf.

It cannot be stressed enough, any Democrat found conceding to Republicans from this day forward will be guilty of a level of tone-deafness that not even Hillary managed at any point in her career. And at that point? I argued against burn-it-all-down Bernie types all last year and have the receipts to prove it, but even I would begin to think the weight is better off shed.

 

[Abinash117]

I feel 0 sympathy for these people.


https://twitter.com/crissles/status/825472388846538752

Probably conjured up BS in her head about Hillary and believed the crap about her. Hillary seemed cozy with corporate and evil big interest, so she is being dishonest with her agenda. Also probably thought that Trump wouldn't do any of the bad stuff and he was unpredictable.

People have terrible judgment and make decisions based on feelings when it comes to politics.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Claire McCaskill and Heidi Heitkamp's constituencies aren't the same as Gillary's. Or resist avatar twitter revolutionaries.

You should get over this meaningless confirmation nonsense with the Haleys and Mattises and even Sleepy Bens. When there's actual things happening right now, and will be real meaningful legislative fights later.

It frankly just comes across as childish.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I would be lying if I said I wouldn't be significantly disappointed in any Democrat that votes for Sessions, though. That's not a purity test so much as me intensely despising everything that man stands for.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I would be lying if I said I wouldn't be significantly disappointed in any Democrat that votes for Sessions, though. That's not a purity test so much as me intensely despising everything that man stands for.

Sessions as a sitting Senator will get votes from Democrat Senators.

Also, he's probably not technically unqualified for the role. It's his horrible views that mean he shouldn't be AG.

 

[royalan]

Claire McCaskill and Heidi Heitkamp's constituencies aren't the same as Gillary's. Or resist avatar twitter revolutionaries.

You should get over this meaningless confirmation nonsense with the Haleys and Mattises and even Sleepy Bens. When there's actual things happening right now, and will be real meaningful legislative fights later.

It frankly just comes across as childish.

I don't live in New York, so I'm not Gillary's constituency, either.

And you can continue to call it childish...but you would continue to be wrong. I mean, frankly, it's silly to continue to think that this is just "Royalan" when just today liberals by the tens of thousands took the streets at an hour's notice. Point to me another time when that has happened. We're are not in an ordinary moment in this great American experiment, and the stakes aren't going to be normal, either.

But hey...*shrugs shoulders*

 

[shinra-bansho]

Okay. I'll continue to call it childish. Because it is.

Every Democratic Senator has voted for Trump Cabinet or Cabinet-level appointment.

It matters zero.

People are protesting the tangible impact of a Trump EO illegally barring entry. Not liberal doyenne Lizzy Forma letting Sleepy Ben out of committee. Because in the grand scheme the latter is utterly meaningless.

In four years time if Warren decides to run even though she'll be way too old and someone brings up she allowed Ben out of committee and is therefore not fit. The appropriate response is who gives a fuck.

 

[royalan]

Okay. I'll continue to call it childish. Because it is.

Every Democratic Senator has voted for Trump Cabinet or Cabinet-level appointment.

It matters zero.

I think the peace has been made with that. Well, as much as it could be. Trump hadn't gone full-on madman at that point.

But Sessions. It's going to go a little differently for Democrats who vote to confirm him.

 

[thepotatoman]

It's only been one week.

Jesus fucking christ.

As long as we make it 3 years, 11 months, and 3 weeks without any sort of foriegn or domestic crisis, we'll maybe be ok.

 

[Pixieking]

White Catholics were an important voting block for a long time, the well-known urban machines like Tamany Hall relied on using their votes by supplying them jobs/rewards for being active political members and they were receptive to them because they were ostracized by the mainstream white society. Catholic immigrants made up a large part of the labor movement and were one of the legs of the New Deal coalition. Remember that Kennedy had to go and talk in public about how he believed in the separation of church and state and that he wasn't a puppet for the pope.

Abortion is part of it here, but televangelists aren't a Catholic thing at all. The greater point though is that what guarantees that there won't be an issue that breaks normalized hispanics away from voting like a unified bloc for the Democrats or if they'll even do that at all if they become pulled into the greater space of "whiteness".'

Yeah, okay, I see where you're coming from now. It's a valid concern, and I can't think of a similar situation with a group switching from Republican to Democrat which would off-set the loss of Hispanics.

Meanwhile...

Donald Trump’s Refugee Ban Has Attorney General Nominee Jeff Sessions' Fingerprints All Over It

This'll be why the ACLU are pushing the refugee angle on the Sessions AG nomination process.

 

[shinra-bansho]

It is clearly a Bannon EO. There's a not so secret battle playing out between Bannon and Pence/Priebus.

 

[BowieZ]

Donald Trump's Refugee Ban Has Attorney General Nominee Jeff Sessions' Fingerprints All Over It

This'll be why the ACLU are pushing the refugee angle on the Sessions AG nomination process.

Jesus Christ. I had no idea about the Sessions connection through Miller. Makes so much sense now.

Also, lol:

At Breitbart, Julia Hahn covered Sessions' speech in an article headlined ”AFGHANISTAN MIGRATION SURGING INTO AMERICA; 99% SUPPORT SHARIA LAW." News broke earlier this week that Hahn got a job in the White House as an assistant to Trump and senior advisor Stephen Bannon.

Yeah.

Straight out Nazis fucking infiltrating the US Presidency, from top to bottom.

And they're using refined Soviet/Orwellian tactics to do it.

And it's going to spread to UK and Australia, and possibly France... and then the rest of the West.

 

[RastaMentality]

I think the peace has been made with that. Well, as much as it could be. Trump hadn't gone full-on madman at that point.

But Sessions. It's going to go a little differently for Democrats who vote to confirm him.

I mean as awful as Carson is, the position doesn't really mean much considering Castro did all of jackshit with it. Sessions and DeVos are different.

 

[royalan]

I mean as awful as Carson is, the position doesn't really mean much considering Castro did all of jackshit with it. Sessions and DeVos are different.

I agree with this. There were going to be more eyes on Sessions and DeVos (and Tillerson) anyway, even if Trump didn't just try to implement a Muslim ban that has everyone up and arms, and will have eyes even more keenly focused on the goings on in Washington going forward.

 

[nature boy]

So the whole "take him seriously, not literally" BS can finally be put to rest.

Orange Fascist is real. This is not going to get better.

 

[BowieZ]

Essential viewing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTMHFjkk674

Thomas Friedman: Trump 'will suck your brains out' - BBC Newsnight

AND courtesy of Meus Resistance, essential reading:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...-card-e:homepage/story&utm_term=.9808c8d9ab83

In Venezuela, we couldn’t stop Chávez. Don’t make the same mistakes we did - The Washington Post

Edit: AND an amazing interview by Bloomberg News Channel's Terre Blair of "A World In Disarray" author Richard Haass.

 

[thehypocrite]

So the whole "take him seriously, not literally" BS can finally be put to rest.

Orange Fascist is real. This is not going to get better.

Well, peter thiel got a new Zealand citizenship so...

https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/26/peter-thiel-new-zealand-citizen/

 

[Pixieking]

Wondering about the after-effects of Trump and the GOP. Fairly obvious now that even if the US government tilts even further to the right and Nazism, there'll be a course-correct - either violent or non-violent - so what can we hope for?

1) More civic-minded electorate? People actively involved in local politics and engaged with national politics? People actually aware of the Joint Chiefs duties, outside of West Wing viewers?

2) More people mindful of propaganda news, like Fox and Breitbart?

3) A push to make the Electoral College neutral? Fairly clear now that Trump and his advisors are modern tyrants, unqualified for the roles they're now in, but an EC uprising was never on the cards due to the highly politicised nature of the College voters. Or a real push to have the popular vote system ratified?

 

[BowieZ]

OMG Fox News in total downplay mode about the protests.

Tech industry has their "own interests" and they "voted for Clinton".

For fuck's sake.

EDIT: And guess who guest commentates? NIGEL FUCKING FARAGE

 

[The Technomancer]

I'll say this

I'm really fucking glad this is blowing up the way it has

 

[chadskin]

I was worried Trump hadn't tweeted yet but here we go

Somebody with aptitude and conviction should buy the FAKE NEWS and failing @nytimes and either run it correctly or let it fold with dignity!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/825690087857995776

 

[BowieZ]

I was worried Trump hadn't tweeted yet but here we go


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/825690087857995776

My response:

https://twitter.com/bowiezmusic/status/825691687473213441

 

[BowieZ]

James Cameron on the Trump Administration, courtesy of The Daily Beast:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...p-administration-these-people-are-insane.html

These people are insane.

It's basically the upside-down world right now, and the kind of dialogue coming out of these guys sounds like George Orwell. Alternate facts? There's no such thing as an alternate fact!

 

[Diablos]

How can they have any legal basis for banning entry for those with green cards?

 

[tbm24]

How can they have any legal basis for banning entry for those with green cards?

There isn't. Trump doesn't care about what's legal, never has.

 

[BowieZ]

How can they have any legal basis for banning entry for those with green cards?

Giuliani apparently figured it out! And bragged to FOX News!

It's perfectly legal! AND FACTUAL!!

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...ump-tasked-craft-muslim-ban-article-1.2958588

 

[Diablos]

Republicans are so spineless. Stand up to him. Then you get President Pence which is an upgrade really if you're a GOPer. He's the midwestern Dubya.

 

[UberTag]

Jesus Christ. I had no idea about the Sessions connection through Miller. Makes so much sense now.

At this point I think we need a whole axis of evil flowchart to map out Trump's inner circle, their connections to one another, all of the little Breitbart and other propaganda media flags that pop up, the Russian ties for folks like Tillerson and Flynn and all of the conflicts of interest that said relations inevitably call to light.

'Cause we're still a number of steps behind if we're missing apparently obvious critical links like Sessions-Miller on Day 10.

 

[Pixieking]

I was worried Trump hadn't tweeted yet but here we go


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/825690087857995776

Corey Ciorciari
‏@CoreyCiorciari

Corey Ciorciari Retweeted Donald J. Trump

Keep in mind, this likely followed Trump learning a United States service member died in an operation he ordered in Yemen.

https://twitter.com/CoreyCiorciari/status/825698820428279810

1 US Service Member Killed, 3 Wounded in Yemen Raid

SANAA, Yemen — The U.S. military said Sunday that one service member was killed and three others wounded in a raid in Yemen targeting its local al-Qaida branch, marking the first-known combat death of a U.S. soldier under President Donald Trump's new administration.

A lot of political hay can be made from this, if people are willing. "Trump administration already losing soldiers to terrorists". "Trump continues to get our soldiers killed". "Trump doesn't care about our brave men and women dying abroad". "No commiseration tweet about soldier dying". Etc etc...

 

[BowieZ]

At this point I think we need a whole axis of evil flowchart to map out Trump's inner circle, their connections to one another, all of the little Breitbart and other propaganda media flags that pop up, the Russian ties for folks like Tillerson and Flynn and all of the conflicts of interest that said relations inevitably call to light.

'Cause we're still a number of steps behind if we're missing apparently obvious critical links like Sessions-Miller on Day 10.

There's more. Although Giuliani is transparent, thankfully.

If this seems to you like something Giuliani maybe shouldn't have said publicly, you're right. But in fact he'd slipped up far worse in his conversation with Fox & Friends on November 4.

Speaking of Comey's announcement that ”new" evidence had been found in the Clinton investigation, Giuliani told Fox News, ”I had expected this for the last, honestly, to tell you the truth, I thought it was going to be about three or four weeks ago" (emphasis supplied).

”Three or four weeks ago"—of course. Because ”three or four weeks ago" is when the New York field office of the FBI had found the ”new" Clinton emails on Anthony Wiener's server. It was ”three or four weeks ago" that these same agents had begun a widely reported 24-day campaign to hide this information from Director Comey—the better to ensure that any leak of the information would cause maximum pre-election damage to the Clinton campaign.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...bi-trump-campaign_us_585ad14ce4b014e7c72ed993 (admittedly not the most unbiased authorship, but everything laid out here is factual).

 

[Plinko]

https://twitter.com/CoreyCiorciari/status/825698820428279810

1 US Service Member Killed, 3 Wounded in Yemen Raid



A lot of political hay can be made from this, if people are willing. "Trump administration already losing soldiers to terrorists". "Trump continues to get our soldiers killed". "Trump doesn't care about our brave men and women dying abroad". "No commiseration tweet about soldier dying". Etc etc...

Except now that Trump filed for reelection, PACS legally can't mention him by name or else risk losing their non profit status.

Has to all be done by elected officials. As I've said repeatedly, it's time for democrats to start politicizing like republicans. Now is the perfect time.