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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why
- Thread starter RustyNails
- Start date
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Telling a black man his place. Completely routine in America.
Seems like the rules changed when he got the job, but that is too be expected..
You can work hard, just don't earn what you are worth
And here we fucking go.
I'll refer to my last post on this - that racial bias is, at its core, blindness, so who am I to say whether race is playing a factor in my reaction here. Just know that when you throw that out, there is no appropriate response, and I won't attempt one.
tedrotheredro
Member
Ugh, who cares about speeches and wall street. Republicans just flat out lied their asses off and won, so who gives a fuck about principles. Taking the noble route doesn't get you shit, just ask Bernie. Give as many speeches as you want.
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/859849407927382024
SNL will be out of job soon with this administration.
SNL will be out of job soon with this administration.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
...this has sort of been a thing with the really conservative evangelicals for a long time, I always thought it was bullshit even when I was religious though.
That's a fair critique. Like I said, we fucked up by giving Bill Clinton a pass, and now we know exactly how much we fucked up by doing that.
The rules did change. I would argue that the world changed in 2008.
I'm referencing the financial crisis when I say the world changed in 2008 fwiw.
10000000 billion dollars. He just fucking signed a 60 million dollar book deal. I don't give a fuck about the money.
I care about the party winning. The party's most popular, visible figure giving speeches to Wall Street doesn't help with the party's perception that they are out of touch elites.
10000000 billion dollars. He just fucking signed a 60 million dollar book deal. I don't give a fuck about the money.
I care about the party winning. The party's most popular, visible figure giving speeches to Wall Street doesn't help with the party's perception that they are out of touch elites.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
This is intellectually lazy as fuck. And I agree he should be able to do as he pleases. But we've been having the Wall St speech debate for well over a year, and Obama is the first major black politician to face that heat.
Obama isn't gearing up to run for president, making promises and collecting checks like the Clintons.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
GOOD OLD BREITBART CHARLIE!
Why doesn't anyone bring up the fact that this was approved under the Obama administration and construction began in January?
What are "elites" to the people who care about "elites"? (Answer: city people)
You can never fight this perception because it's not actually about "elites" or the 1%, it's about angry rural people.
My personal belief is that ever since Trump managed to win the election, he became the baseline of American politics. Neither Obama nor any Democratic politician will ever come close to hitting that floor, I'm good with that and I will personally tolerate a lot to secure the majority again. It's why 400k for a speech just seems so inconsequential, hell I've been ready to give up on gun control entirely on the national level....an issue I'm super passionate about.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Much like last time, I'll mention that not every black person who goes unhired is a victim of racism, but some of them are, and the people saying they're not discriminated against "this time" say that every time and after this long, none of us get the benefit of the doubt on it.
Which is how you get these replies
I can't sign on to this.
"Better than Trump" is not a meaningful baseline.
We should try to be, like, actually as good as we can be. It's the best way to secure permanent political power.
Much like last time, I'll mention that not every black person who goes unhired is a victim of racism, but some of them are, and the people saying they're not discriminated against "this time" say that every time and after this long, none of us get the benefit of the doubt on it.
Which is how you get these replies
That's totally fair
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
whyamihere
Banned
Much like last time, I'll mention that not every black person who goes unhired is a victim of racism, but some of them are, and the people saying they're not discriminated against "this time" say that every time and after this long, none of us get the benefit of the doubt on it.
Which is how you get these replies
He's not the first president to not take money! It was a longstanding presidential norm for two hundred years!
balladofwindfishes
Member
The far left is like the opposite of rural people. "Liberal elite" means city people, but just being against the elite and wealthy isn't exclusive to rural people.
I mean, they were absolutely terrible and accomplished virtually nothing, but when they're literally talking about Wall Street in their name in the wake of a financial crisis it's pretty clear they're at least aiming in the right direction.
Angry generic invectives about "the establishment" or "the elites" are just scapegoating.
Is "liberal" not implied in talk about "elites"? Because I have it lumped in there along with (((globalists))) and other such nonsense.
balladofwindfishes
Member
It depends on who is using "elite"
The left talks about the rich and elite all the time, but they obviously are not angry rural people mad at city livers. It means different things to different ideologies.
Understand not everyone can. But I personally would rather move the needle as slowly as possible if that's what it takes. RBJ and Breyer need to be replaced with liberal justices. In the 1960's less than 30% of the country supported interracial marriage after Loving v. Virginia, that number is now over 80%, that is progressive and that is what is at stake. It's also the only way Obamacare's issues get fixed imo so yeah I will tolerate a lot for that majority personally.
Liberals see the "elite" as the financial %1 (financial elites)
Conservatives see the "elite" as urbanites/brown people of any economic class (cultural elites)
It depends who exactly you are trying to convince the Democrats aren't elitist. Considering a lot of WWC fall into the second category things can get tricky.
RastaMentality
Banned
Occupy kinda did birth this whole anti-Wall Street sentiment. It may not have done anything significant within the life of the movement, but I think it contributed something to this entire thing.
We tried that and we got Trump because it turns out most Americans don't really give a shit about policy.
If Democrats are guaranteed to win political power at least 30% of the time regardless of their candidates, going up when GOP is in office, I feel like we should be nominating more progressive candidates.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Yeah I understand that but kirblar asserted that only "angry rural people" care about elites or the establishment.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I think Occupy never really died. It sort of just murmured in the shadows. Bernie is basically Occupy's presidential candidate, even if the actual group was long gone.
They likely would have been more successful had they started up these days. It's interesting the attitudes against Wall Street seem more powerful now than they were 10 years ago, even if WS hasn't really done anything of importance since the crash.
Obama can announce what he wants when he wants to. He's not beholden to "OPTICS" for everything he does. Far left will say shit, his critics will likely also say shit about this too.
BlastProcessing
Member
So it is only about the optics...
AntraxSuicide
Banned
But my point still stands. It's not a norm anymore and hadn't been for decades, and the first black president is the one who's got to go back to the old way. I don't think you're a racist (based on my time on this site around you) but I'm also a cisgendered white man, so I'm not really required to be on the lookout for discrimination against me.
Your position hinges on getting the benefit of the doubt from various people of color, and it's not going to come from all of them (or even most).
I wrote like a page about how this is wrong. Did you read it?
I truly believe that when "elites" gets thrown out, odds are high that it's very much the "conservative" version of that, and not the liberal. (per Croc's post) The far right is far bigger than the far left.
Use context clues
Roland_Gunner
Member
Not really. Lots of Presidents got paid to deliver speeches. Nixon made $600K from the Frost interviews!
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/161600
tedrotheredro
Member
Human rights, who needs 'em?
RastaMentality
Banned
The thing is, though, that I dont think you get to this point without Occupy.
Eh. I'm responsible to do my best to not be racist, not to ensure that nobody ever says I'm racist.
Like if people want to tell me I'm being racist about this, I'll think about it for sure, and I'm happy to discuss it if people want to, but ultimately I'm not sure what else I can do except to keep trying to eliminate racist ideas and advance social justice and let people make their judgments over time.
Worse, we're quite fucked if "better than Trump" becomes the baseline, first because there's a lot of depths to plumb before you get to "corrupt senile narcissistic nepotistic racist nazi-sympathizing likely traitor possible ephebophile and self-admitted rapist," and secondly because once you set that as the base, you *know* someone's going to try and find a lower common denominator.
That's the essence of Resist Trump. This shit should be beyond partisanship, Democrats, Republicans, and everyone else are going to be the losers if we normalize this in any way.
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