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[numble]

Also, people who criticized Obama for the $400k speech fee are looking like busters, now that Obama has actually shown what he was gonna do with that money.

He actually hasn't shown what he will do with that money or similar money in the future. He could declare that it would mostly go to charity or political causes, which is what the New York Times Editorial Board wants him to do, but he has not done so.

Because Clinton released her tax returns, we know that about a little less than 10% of their income from speaking fees was donated onward. If the same proportion were followed, that would mean donating $40,000 of a $400,000 speaking fee.

 

[Got the Shakes]

I legit cannot believe all that crap that sky rockets the elderly's rates still exists.

What in the world. That's political suicide

The GOP is basically saying fuck their constituents now. Gambling that they won't suffer politically for this. With the way voting has gone recently maybe they're right, maybe no amount of pain will get people out to vote. Dark times.

They won't. They'll say the Dems blocked their great reform, and convince people to vote them out in 2018 so they can finally enact their "change for the better."

I literally saw interviews yesterday where Freedom Caucus members were asked if their health care bill was about making health care better or keeping their promise of getting rid of the ACA and the answers were that they were fulfilling the promise that got them elected. They don't seem to think there will be any political fallout, they think they were sent with one job and that was to get rid of the ACA by whatever means necessary.

 

[PBY]

I almost wish Republicans in Congress were dumb enough to pass a health care law that fucks over millions of people by removing their health care. What a quick way to show your ass like that.

Also, people who criticized Obama for the $400k speech fee are looking like busters, now that Obama has actually shown what he was gonna do with that money.

The NYT editorial board and the hosts of Slates Political Gabfest = busters.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

That's not how it USED to work.

They are already stuck to his hip. May as well see how far it goes. We are mostly in uncharted political territory with Trump.

You can find periods in political history where 'the rules don't apply' and for a while thats true, but eventually everything reverts to the mean. Its possible that won't happen by 2018 but over the long term they will.

 

[gaugebozo]

That's not how it USED to work.

They are already stuck to his hip. May as well see how far it goes. We are mostly in uncharted political territory with Trump.

Models are things that break down. However, if you have a model that's done pretty well for a while, it makes sense to see a crazy result as an outlier rather than the model being done forever. Give it at least two elections till we accept the Dali painting in front of us as standard.

 

[shinra-bansho]

He could donate it all. Or none. Because it's his money. And when all of you and the Slate Gabfest and Jason Chaffetz become President you can decide what to do with your money.

My god how is this still a topic.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Models are things that break down. However, if you have a model that's done pretty well for a while, it makes sense to see a crazy result as an outlier rather than the model being done forever. Give it at least two elections till we accept the Dali painting in front of us as standard.

There hasn't been really been an outlier since 2002. A president of the opposite party of the sitting president winning after 2 terms is the norm.

 

[Blader]

He actually hasn't shown what he will do with that money or similar money in the future. He could declare that it would mostly go to charity or political causes, which is what the New York Times Editorial Board wants him to do, but he has not done so.

Because Clinton released her tax returns, we know that about a little less than 10% of their income from speaking fees was donated onward. If the same proportion were followed, that would mean donating $40,000 of a $400,000 speaking fee.

Alright, so what about the other $1.96 million?

 

[PBY]

He could donate it all. Or none. Because it's his money. And when all of you and the Slate Gabfest and Jason Chaffetz become President you can decide what to do with your money.

My god how is this still a topic.

Yeah just not going to agree here. But this topic is well worn at this point we all know where we stand.

 

[Zolo]

CBO score is expected in about 1-2 weeks. Senate won't pass the bill by then, though it seems like a moot point since any bill that the Senate sends back to the House will likely be a markedly different bill than what the CBO is scoring right now.

Doesn't it remove coverage for C-sections? I literally can't see even a Republican senate passing it as it is now.

 

[NihonTiger90]

I literally saw interviews yesterday where Freedom Caucus members were asked if their health care bill was about making health care better or keeping their promise of getting rid of the ACA and the answers were that they were fulfilling the promise that got them elected. They don't seem to think there will be any political fallout, they think they were sent with one job and that was to get rid of the ACA by whatever means necessary.

Bingo, and that's the message they'll take back to their constituents. You know, blue collar places like Lima and Mansfield in Jim Jordan's Ohio district, where something like this is going to cripple already-reeling Rust Belt cities and possibly drive an opioid crisis into even more of a full blown disaster.

 

[Loxley]

It really is bizarre. Are they that arrogant? That stupid? Both? Are they just weak willed and being bullied by Trump into losing their jobs?

Trump has been passive-aggressively threatening for a while now that he would help ensure that anybody who didn't vote "yes" on the ACA repeal wouldn't win re-election. Remember the whole "Steven Bannon is making a list" thing? So, on one side, you have the president borderline extorting Congressmen so they vote "yes", and on the other side you have the people who voted these Congressmen into office (and everyone else with half of a brain) pleading with them to vote "no".

I would not be shocked at all if Trump & Co threatened to publicly call-out every Republican who didn't vote "yes" on this thing and smear their names come the 2018 elections.

 

[iammeiam]

Bob Casey's twitter today is extremely upsetting:

Worst part: According to lawyers @DHSgov knew darn well that 5yr old & mother had secured paperwork to protect them & they rushed removal.

US Senator tries and fails to halt the deportation of a five year old and his mother, believing the return to their home country of Honduras puts them at risk of death. Gets in touch with Preibus. It doesn't matter. Deportation was potentially rushed so that the extenuating circumstances surrounding the child couldn't prevent it.

Trump's America isn't going to be content with just risking the lives of the elderly and ill by fucking over their insurance; it also rushes to send children to their potential deaths. This is all so incredibly fucked.

CBO score is expected in about 1-2 weeks. Senate won't pass the bill by then, though it seems like a moot point since any bill that the Senate sends back to the House will likely be a markedly different bill than what the CBO is scoring right now.

I do wonder how many Yes votes are going to hide behind the Senate and say they were promised this would NEVER get through without hefty modification. Then entire process is insane.

 

[jWILL253]

The NYT editorial board and the hosts of Slates Political Gabfest = busters.

If the clownshoe fits...

Like I said before... the whole fit over Obama's income from speeches is dumb. That's private money. Let's focus more on how Trump is literally using OUR dollars as vacation money.

 

[PBY]

If the clownshoe fits...

Like I said before... the whole fit over Obama's income from speeches is dumb. That's private money. Let's focus more on how Trump is literally using OUR dollars as vacation money.

I can criticize both, stop with the whataboutism.

If you want to focus - why are you discussing it now by the way?

 

[Blader]

Bingo, and that's the message they'll take back to their constituents. You know, blue collar places like Lima and Mansfield in Jim Jordan's Ohio district, where something like this is going to cripple already-reeling Rust Belt cities and possibly drive an opioid crisis into even more of a full blown disaster.

If blue-collar voters in HFC-repped districts are pushing their congressmen to kill the healthcare that will make their lives even worse, then... well, this is the part where my empathy for these people becomes really strained.

 

[shinra-bansho]

There should be no private money.
Or cars.

 

[jWILL253]

I can criticize both, stop with the whataboutism.

If you want to focus - why are you discussing it now by the way?

Because it remains the dumbest thing in a puddle of stupid, and it's actually relevant now that Obama announced the $2 million donation?

Also, you should stop criticizing this, as it's a waste of brain cells to criticize a smorgasbord of nothing.

 

[NihonTiger90]

If blue-collar voters in HFC-repped districts are pushing their congressmen to kill the healthcare that will make their lives even worse, then... well, this is the part where my empathy for these people becomes really strained.

On one hand, I can understand it.

On the other, my county borders Jordan's district, we're struggling with opioid overdoses already here, and people are already reluctant as fuck to do anything to help those addicted. This is going to make it worse for everyone who lives here.

Unfortunately, my rep is a hard no. Our only hope is that the Toledo suburbs and Wood County turn out like mad in 2018 and vote his ass out of office.

 

[Suikoguy]

There should be no private money.
Or cars.

Politicians should retire in Monasteries and reject all worldly possessions.

 

[PBY]

Because it remains the dumbest thing in a puddle of stupid, and it's actually relevant now that Obama announced the $2 million donation?

Also, you should stop criticizing this, as it's a waste of brain cells to criticize a smorgasbord of nothing.

Agree to disagree

But agree to move on

 

[pigeon]

It's pretty dumb to say people shouldn't have criticized Obama because new information came out that changed the situation. We didn't know that information at the time, doofuses!

 

[gaugebozo]

There hasn't been really been an outlier since 2002. A president of the opposite party of the sitting president winning after 2 terms is the norm.

Maybe I came into this a little too late, and a little too drunk. I agree with this:

There's no indication anything has changed and evidence that it's going to be a nasty midterm for the GOP next year.

Unless they figure they're going to lose anyway, might as well take the entire country down with them, but that would make them terrorists, and I don't know if they'd go that far.

 

[Slizeezyc]

Maybe I came into this a little too late, and a little too drunk. I agree with this:

Freedom Caucus might, after all it's not really terrorism to them. They just believe in insane shit.

 

[numble]

He could donate it all. Or none. Because it's his money. And when all of you and the Slate Gabfest and Jason Chaffetz become President you can decide what to do with your money.

My god how is this still a topic.

It's been a thing since presidents started doing it. There's articles in 1989 criticizing Reagan and Ford for doing it instead of following the example of other presidents:
http://people.com/archive/eight-day...2-million-now-thats-reaganomics-vol-32-no-19/

It is a thing that people do take issue with and I don't know why people handwave it away.

The NYT Editorial Board, which does influence opinions of the public and lawmakers, also criticized the practice:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/01/opinion/the-cost-of-barack-obamas-speech.html

Alright, so what about the other $1.96 million?

It came from the book advance, most likely. The thing is, going forward, the likely scenario is that he hosts big money fundraisers for his foundation, and the foundation will be the entity making donations going forward (its more tax-efficient this way). There would likely be similar 10% (or 15%, based on his past tax returns) of his own money (and not the foundation money) donated to charity. But I think the argument that he will use most of this personal income to pay for charitable endeavors is not likely to actually happen unless he actually says that is his plan. If he wanted to maximize the charitable giving power, a paid speech could be a foundation fundraiser with the money characterized as a donation to the foundation instead of personal income.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Freedom Caucus might, after all it's not really terrorism to them. They just believe in insane shit.

The Freedom Caucus won't be the ones that lose next year.

 

[Vimes]

It's pretty dumb to say people shouldn't have criticized Obama because new information came out that changed the situation. We didn't know that information at the time, doofuses!

I think those of us defending Obama at the time of the speech story made the case that we trusted him enough to put the money to good use. Now, within fairly short order, there's a little bit of evidence that we were correct to do so.

 

[Zolo]

The Freedom Caucus won't be the ones that lose next year.

Yeah. I assume Freedom Caucus members live in incredibly safe districts. Never looked it up though.

 

[Slizeezyc]

The Freedom Caucus won't be the ones that lose next year.

Trump told me the Dems will lose big next year, so you tell no lies.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yeah. I assume Freedom Caucus members live in incredibly safe districts. Never looked it up though.

It's the only way they're able to be so crazy

 

[pigeon]

I think those of us defending Obama at the time of the speech story made the case that we trusted him enough to put the money to good use. Now, within fairly short order, there's a little bit of evidence that we were correct to do so.

I trusted Obama too. That wasn't the point. Ethics are not about trust. Trump voters trust Trump not to steal from the American government or leverage his position to enrich his kids. Trusting people is not an ethical backstop! You are supposed to have ethical rules that make it unnecessary to rely on trust alone.

 

[RastaMentality]

literally what is the nyt doing

Nancy Pelosi: "**UP TO** 17 million"

NYT: "This is misleading ... the 17 million figure is the upper limit." https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/859951633542893568/photo/1

 

[Zolo]

So is it assumed at this point that part of the reason Republicans are folding is because Trump's personally threatening to come down on them in election time?

 

[Suikoguy]

I trusted Obama too. That wasn't the point. Ethics are not about trust. Trump voters trust Trump not to steal from the American government or leverage his position to enrich his kids. Trusting people is not an ethical backstop! You are supposed to have ethical rules that make it unnecessary to rely on trust alone.

...

Trust is typically earned and based on evidence.

People who trust Trump are doing so based on delusion and not evidence, in fact they are ignoring evidence to the contrary.

literally what is the nyt doing

That has to be the most timid example of "misleading" I've ever seen.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

literally what is the nyt doing

lol what

Did they forget how to read?

 

[pigeon]

...

Trust is typically earned and based on evidence.

People who trust Trump are doing so based on delusion and not evidence, in fact they are ignoring evidence to the contrary.

Sure. The argument isn't that people don't have a better reason to trust Obama. They obviously do. It's that "I trust him to do the right thing" is not a good ethical rule.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Bingo, and that's the message they'll take back to their constituents. You know, blue collar places like Lima and Mansfield in Jim Jordan's Ohio district, where something like this is going to cripple already-reeling Rust Belt cities and possibly drive an opioid crisis into even more of a full blown disaster.

Wait until dozens of retail stores close in that district. FWIW I was born there.

 

[Slizeezyc]

literally what is the nyt doing

Hey man, both sides. Also, it's got to be exhausting doing these with Trump every day, so they at least have to give it a go here to remember their jobs were sometimes hard before this era.

 

[Hubbl3]

literally what is the nyt doing

Lately I've really been considering cancelling my NYT subscription

 

[smokeymicpot]

Not US politcs but this doesn't sound good.

NBC News has learned that the UK's Royal Staff has been called to Buckingham Palace for an "emergency meeting." Reason unknown. #breaking

https://twitter.com/harrisongolden/status/859960873435136000

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Lately I've really been considering cancelling my NYT subscription

You are now realizing their pyramid scheme

 

[Slizeezyc]

Not US politcs but this doesn't sound good.

NBC News has learned that the UK's Royal Staff has been called to Buckingham Palace for an "emergency meeting." Reason unknown. #breaking

https://twitter.com/harrisongolden/status/859960873435136000

Welp, someone's probably dead.

 

[Mighty Chin]

He actually hasn't shown what he will do with that money or similar money in the future. He could declare that it would mostly go to charity or political causes, which is what the New York Times Editorial Board wants him to do, but he has not done so.

Because Clinton released her tax returns, we know that about a little less than 10% of their income from speaking fees was donated onward. If the same proportion were followed, that would mean donating $40,000 of a $400,000 speaking fee.

And none of that should mean anything to anybody.

 

[Autodidact]

Not US politcs but this doesn't sound good.

NBC News has learned that the UK's Royal Staff has been called to Buckingham Palace for an "emergency meeting." Reason unknown. #breaking

https://twitter.com/harrisongolden/status/859960873435136000

Will Phil the Greek knock healthcare off the front pages even in the USA, with its weird obsession with British royalty?

 

[smokeymicpot]

Welp, someone's probably dead.

That was my first thought.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Welp, someone's probably dead.

Twitter is saying Prince Philip has died

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Twitter is saying Prince Philip has died

Damn.

 

[B-Dubs]

Twitter is saying Prince Philip has died

So passes the greatest troll this world has ever known.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Damn.

It's all unconfirmed reports from unnamed sources, nothing is official yet

 

[smokeymicpot]

Twitter is saying Prince Philip has died

Just saw that.

French media reporting Prince Philip has died. No confirmation from UK press.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PhilipPorado/status/859955090320486400

Not sure if this is legit